Thais in America

[elephantspike]

I did an entire website for them. They totally blew-off paying me. I find their condescending attitude troublesome. Don't you?

The archive:

http://web.archive.org/web/200502082241 ... tland.com/ (http://web.archive.org/web/20050208224112/http://www.siamportland.com/)

It sucks that you didn't get paid. But where is the condescending attitude?

[elephantspike]

Every night in the local gay pub is where the condescending attitude is. Every fucking night. I am so sick of it.

Sorry...I'm not following. The restaurant owners are gay, and they are condescending to you when you run into them at the local bar?

[elephantspike]

Yes. They act like I am inferior to them. They take delight in the fact that I am now a middle-aged man who needs glasses and has no means to obtain services from any 0ptometrist. They think that it is funny that they are being given Carte Blanche in my country while I have no way to obtain the prescriptions that I need.

Yes. They act like I am inferior to them.

Most of the UK based Thais are like this.......... unless your rich and drop dead gorgeous........forget it lol!

[dab69]

well can you modify their site to reflect your nonpayment?

guessing they weren't cute....
or gay

[elephantspike]

They are gay. I am the one who is not cute enough anymore.

I do not control the hosting. I just did all of the creative work on the server that they are renting

Can't you take them to small claims court for payment?
I have to say their food pics look good. My mouth is watering.

[elephantspike]

I am powerless. They think it is funny. I don't.

They have more rights than I do in this country now.

I am powerless. They think it is funny. I don't

make another site..................im good at google listings...........and very good at yahoo listings..........shame them into payment.

[elephantspike]

Because I did a part-time job as a waiter for them at the same time as I made the website, according to Maine law, I have no rights. Meanwhile, I am surrounded by rural ghetto types who are get all of their medical costs paid for by the state.

I am powerless. They think it is funny. I don't.

They have more rights than I do in this country now.
How much do they owe you?
I know what you mean that about stateside Thais, they can be snooty.
I wonder if we could help you shame them somehow?
I actually have an idea that might freak them out.

[elephantspike]

It's not about the money. It's about the status.

Well, you know what the solution would be if you lived in Thailand...

Because I did a part-time job as a waiter for them at the same time as I made the website, according to Maine law, I have no rights. Meanwhile, I am surrounded by rural ghetto types who are get all of their medical costs paid for by the state.
You still might want to take them to small claims court. If they fail to show, you win. And you just might convince a judge.

I do not control the hosting. I just did all of the creative work on the server that they are renting

Now you will remember to put a back door ('dragon's egg') into your cgi scripts next time, so that you can replace the menu photos with those of fried cockroaches and beetles if the customer doesn't pay!

But in this case you will need to wait for the opportunity to publicly embarrass them -- which in small-town Maine might shame them out of town. Alternatively you could take out an advert in the local newspaper warning others that they are a 'bad debt,' and not to offer them credit. In Thailand (or any Asian country) I wound not suggest causing a local to lose face -- but in this case it would be a perfectly acceptable action.

This is a tough one, and Portland isn't exactly a small town.
That restaurant based on the reviews and the pics appears to be a good Thai restaurant, perhaps the best in that city.
I agree that publicity and press is a good leverage tool here, but it might backfire and get them free publicity and more business!
You haven't really shared enough of the details of this case, you say they think they have the power over you and are acting under law, but have you talked to the Maine labor board about this yet?

Even if they have a case from a legal technicality, there might be a way to pressure them through contacting some local officials, or even a congressman. Start some anti-Thai backlash to bar them from buying our land and houses and corrupting our youth with hot chile peppers, that kind of thing! (Just kidding, sort of.)

Elephantspike:

It's the same in Los Angeles. Doesn't seem to matter if they are affluent business people or restaurant kitchen help or below minimum wage garment workers. I don't really view it as any different than my many years experience in Thailand as a resident or a visitor. I just blow it off in Thailand because the wallet speaks volumes for some of the purposes I have in mind.

If it makes you feel any better, Thai senior citizens who come to the U.S. over the age of 65 and do so legally (i.e., "Green Card") will most likely end up with more in monthly SSI than you will someday receive, plus MediCare (such as it is today). They will also be entitled to free groceries and $2 taxi coupons and other types of discounts (utilities, theme parks, restaurants, theatres). So work until age 65 and you can deserve less than someone who has never paid U.S. taxes.

I was asked by the Thai community in Hollywood to house and provide services for 17 of 72 Thai nationals taken into custody in El Monte, California on August 2, 1995. A Thai national, Sunee Manasurangkul and her adult children had enslaved them in an apartment building cum sweatshop for up to nine years. They were bonded to remain in the U.S. for 6 months as designated material witnesses. The request was to take care of them for 2 weeks. It turned into six months. Raising money to feed them, clothe them, buy gads of female hygiene supplies, phone bills to Thailand, transportation, health care (most had significant medical problems) was a seeming impossibility as the costs continually escalated due to psychiatric and medical emergencies. Locating a salary for multilingual English, Lao, Thai speaker to serve as a temporary case worker was an added worry.

They arrived with no shoes, etc. There were dozens of ad hoc appointments at the courts, at their legal representatives offices, etc. They were not permitted to leave the country for what turned out to be a couple of years, rather than for the original 6 months. They implored me to make additional trips to Thailand to visit their families on their behalves. This I did and was glad to be able to spend time in villages throughout E-Sarn that I otherwise will never likely see.

All of this was quickly followed by requests from the community and the INS to do the same for small groups of Thai sex slaves taken into custody in Orange County and Monterey Park. The Thai community was extremely reticent to assist these groups and asked the Federal Courts to rescind the surety bonds and send them back to INS Detention. Aside from all else, on a very short turnaround I had to make a decision whether to take the surety responsibility and also locate funds to turn over to cover both types of bonds (several hundred dollars per person).

For purposes of confidentiality and safety I can't mention the types of danger and incidents that this all brought my staff members and me. Except to say that I never expected to encounter the type of people who were side characters in these episodes. I lost my best professional counselors and case managers due to trauma.

I was still a university professor at the time as well as operating a social services agency. My schedule was constantly re-arranged. Aside from the generosity of friends, it cost me well above $15,000 from my own pocket. My work schedule went from a lovely 80 hours per week to more than 105 hours per week. Over the years, all of these Thai nationals remained close to me, telephoning or visiting on a few times a week basis, calling me papa and Pu Yai, their families addressing me in the same way. Yet, since they received permanent U.S. residence in the Summer of 2003 I have not received a call or visit from any of them. Many of them live a bare stone's throw from my house. Today, I am still recoverying from the residual effects of palsy, tuberculosis and other debilitating illnesses that I came down with in the process of their care - from contagion or stress.

I volunteered, at the request of a Thai community service group to teach basic English conversation for Thai restaurant and factory workers and adults preparing for the Naturalization interview. This I did, every Saturday for one year. I also used my connections to find some of the participants better jobs, free legal assistance, better housing, etc. After one year, my father became seriously ill and my time away from work was taken up with his needs. When he died I was so exhausted that all work and other activities were suspended temporarily. Some of the students in the class I now see a few times a week - as through one of my agency's programs we take care of Thai and other Asian adults with developmental disabilities in which some of their adult children participate. Yet, when they pick up their children in the late fternoons and happen to see me, they do not acknowledge me.

A Thai community newspaper publisher asked me to edit an English edition of a weekly newspaper with a circulation of 10,000. Was the first Thai community newspaper in Southern California to have such a companion edition. I did this as a voluntary contribution along with teaching the English classes. After doing this for a long period of time, and having to stop because of another traumatic family event - the publisher merely said - so sorry your family is dead - and never another word or contact.

The series of Thai Consul Generals in this city has been exactly the same.

I have to say that over a lifetime I have done this same sorts of voluntary work in the Hispanic community in Santa Monica, California; the Filipino community in Historic Filipinotown in Los Angeles; the African Refugee community here; and the homeless communities and yet never been shined-on except by the Thai community.

Given my life commitments, it has all been more than intrinsically valuable and rewarding. My extended contacts and friendships in the Latino, Filipino and African communities make my life very full and happy. The Thai ____________.

I have been asked recently to do "pro bono" resource development for a Tsunami relief agency headed by a well-known Thai restauranteur in Hollywood. They have some noteworthy service attempts in Khao Lak. They are trying to establish an endowment to carry them through the long-term. I find myself thinking about it for a minute or so and then pushing the delete button on their unread email messages.

Only in the Thai community have I ever gotten the subtexts "So where's your wallet, now" and "You helped us a lot before but what are you doing for us now".

Does any of this keep me away from Thaitown here or from Thailand? No. I have merely learned to happily accept my relationships with Thai people as a different type of exchange than with other peoples and communities. Will I continue to volunteer in communities? Yes. Will I ever do so again in Thai communities here? No.

In Thailand or Thaitown - wallet-based relationships will suffice.

Sometimes you just have to cut your losses both monetarily and socially. If people have categorised you incorrectly the world will turn and one day it will be your turn to laugh.

Guess this adds up to saying "Move on, move to Thailand". They may believe that they are positioned above you because of their merit making in their previous life. Possibly positions will reverse within this life. But they won't if you waste your time hanging around these guys.

I might add to this post that my partner's business faced a similar bad debt situation in China. We wrote it off but three years later were approached for similar work with an associate company. The associates were shocked to hear we hadn't been paid and simply stated they would speak to "Mr. Big". Payment arrived quickly and there is a steady stream of legitimate work that can't be really be refused. But it can be discouraged with a "discomfort" premium and if payment is slow we know who to speak to.

Not that it's right, but you have been these peoples' employee -- and are therefore of a lower class than them by the Thai system. It therefore would not be unusual for them not to treat you as an equal, or with respect even.

[Aunty]

Elephantspike I'd take them to small claims court. Come on dude, this is America. If you can't get even, Sue!

The issue as I see it will come down to did you have a contract with the restaurant to design their website for them in exchange for money? If you had a verbal one then it's not worth the paper it's written on, (and there's a lesson you need to learn for the future - always get it in writing, what will you do, when will you do it and how much will you get paid) but even if you had a verbal one it's still worth a go. What was your agreement with the restaurant? Did you discuss payment, and how much were you to get? If you said you'd do it for "mates-rates" in other words free, well sorry you don't have a leg to stand on. But if you did discuss a fee, take them to court. Keep all receipts, papers everything you have that relates to the work you did.

Go see Judge Judy, and get it sorted out on National TV, that'll be the kind of publicity IтАЩm sure theyтАЩll want - not.

[Aunty]

On the wider issue of immigrants (legal or otherwise) taking advantage of their host countryтАЩs citizens I think Americans in particular are more vulnerable to this than are people from other countries. Americans have this cultural imperative of helping out their neighbour, giving to those less fortunate than themselves, doing charitable works and giving money to charity. тАШGiving something backтАЩ was the phrase I heard most often when I was living there. In countries such as mine where there are far more comprehensive and generous social welfare systems (free health care, extensive social security benefits, legal aid, state housing) to support people we expect the Government to support people in need (and it will) rather than ourselves.

So when people approach New Zealanders for money the response is more like Hell No I already pay enough F-en taxes, go to social welfare or X government department to sort yourself out.

In your case Ariel, if the Thai have treated you in such an ungrateful way then the next time they approach you you should follow Nancy ReaganтАЩs advice and just say no unless of course they are prepared to pay you for it, in cock or cash.

[elephantspike]

No, there was no written contract, so I don't have a legal leg to stand on. It wasn't about the money, anyway. I was just so angry that they not only didn't acknowledge my contribution, but that they actually removed my name from the site, and then when I proved to them that the images and templates were my intellectual property, they deleted the entire site (The link in the first post is to the internet archive) and replaced it with a place-saver page. His attitude was that if I could create a website, then he could easily create a better one by himself. Well, 5 months later, it is still a place-saving page, and it still has the Google page-rank it achieved through my work.

I probably shouldn't have even brought it up. It is all water under the bridge now. This is turning into an interesting thread, though. I guess my gripe is pretty petty compared to what Ariel has gone through. Having slept on it, I suppose It would be a good idea to at least remove the email address from the opening post.

Unfortunately, Boygeorge, working Americans by and large just cannot get even basic health-care coverage, let alone luxuries such as dental, optometry, and mental health care. That is just the way this country is. No 30 baht scheme here. That is not the fault of my Thai former-friends, of course, but I just feel humiliated by their superiority attitude, and felt like venting.


I have to say their food pics look good. My mouth is watering.

Thank you. The photography is what I consider to be the most important thing I did for that site. The design is just simple generic HTML. It is not easy to photograph food.

I've had people ask me "If you like thai guys so much, why don't you just find a nice thai guy in Los Angeles?". The fact is, I have never found Gay Thais that have relocated to the my area to be friendly or approachable. They all seem to expect to be waiting for a Brad Pitt look alike to come sweep them off their feet. The Gay Filipinno and Viet Community is much friendlier and approachable.

[elephantspike]

I've met plenty of nice Thais in America. I am worried now that by venting my personal ire with one particular person that I may have opened a Thai-bashing thread. I hope not.

I have met plenty of nice thais too.. especially at my work. But they are all straight LOL. It's only the gay one's that seem to have an attitude.

[elephantspike]

It's only the gay one's that seem to have an attitude.

Well, I suppose that could apply to any nationality. :colors:

I've had people ask me "If you like thai guys so much, why don't you just find a nice thai guy in Los Angeles?". The fact is, I have never found Gay Thais that have relocated to the my area to be friendly or approachable. They all seem to expect to be waiting for a Brad Pitt look alike to come sweep them off their feet. The Gay Filipinno and Viet Community is much friendlier and approachable.
I am afraid I had the same experience.
A funny example, once I was introduced to a gay Yuppie Thai in California. I mentioned that I was working on learning beginning Thai. He refused to speak to me in Thai at all, and suggested in a rude, sarcastic manner TAKE A CLASS! Now, he had a point of course, but land of smiles doesn't travel too well.

I don't think I could pull off being as charming as you.

[Doug]

Boygeorge wrote, "as soon as some of my wormates arrive to help me out..."

As least he recognizes what he is.

[GWMinUS]

Maybe all the memebers here should Click that Contact Us button.
and say, "Hey Cheap Thias, pay up for the work on your Web Site!!"

Maybe all the memebers here should Click that Contact Us button.
and say, "Hey Cheap Thias, pay up for the work on your Web Site!!"
Yeah, or we'll spread the rumour that you use rat meat in your curry.

But that Executive Chef Thomas Yordprom is kinda cute. Sure you can' t work something out?
I guess it isn't as hard as I thought to get a green card?

But that Executive Chef Thomas Yordprom is kinda cute. Sure you can' t work something out?
Yeah, he looks like one Maine course you can't get enough of ...

[elephantspike]

I guess it isn't as hard as I thought to get a green card?

He has wealthy American parters. It's all about money. US immigration will tell you that it is not, but in fact, all of the things they look for are things that, given enough money, you can provide, and without money, you cannot.



But that Executive Chef Thomas Yordprom is kinda cute

Too bearish (and arrogant) for me.

Yeah, most of the Thai people who open up Thai restos in the USA are hiso or hiso-ish.

Funny, you don't look hiso-ish ...

[elephantspike]

Hiso-ish? What does that mean?

High-society? Perhaps?

Is there a possibility that they did not pay for the web site because it really was not that good?

Personally (and without any malace towards ES) I do not think it was of a high standard. Amatuerish to say the least

If it was my restaurant and that site was presented to me I would not pay for it either - without a great deal of re-design work being undertaken

Just my personal opinion on the website only

[elephantspike]

Well, I'm not saying it was perfect. As I said, the main thing was the photography, most of which was not archived in the internet archive, so you can't see it anymore. The internet archive is still obviously a lot better than the place-saving page they have up now, and of course they know that.

My problem was that they took my name off of it, and kept my images and layout, rejecting my offer to help, and attempted to edit it themselves, which was a farcical attempt that left red "X"s in place of some of the images, and links that led to error pages. As long as they were using my images and templates, they were supposed to leave the credit to me up. They only took down my version of the site when I convinced them that I do indeed have a right to my intellectual property (despite having made the mistake of having worked for them part-time).