My HIV+ friend

[Brisboy82]

I had a friend who was staying with me in pattaya and one day just out of curiosity we decided to go for a rapid HIV test at the local clinic. Well it turns out he was HIV positive (confirmed at the hospital later). I want him to seek medical attention and treat his condition when appropriate. The problem is that his attitude is 'I am bad' 'I die soon'. He doesn't seem to understand that his condition can be managed. I also worry about the fact that as he is not a Thai citizen he will not even be entitled to the treatment options of the average Thai. He also continues to work as a Gogo boy which under the circumstances could all be part of a downward spiral. What should I do?

[cdnmatt]

He doesn't seem to understand that his condition can be managed.

Yeah, I've noticed the same. Many seem to be under the assumption that if you have HIV, it's a 100% certainty you'll be dead within a few years. Many don't have the slightest clue how far technological advances have come when treating HIV. What's even more sad is many don't even bother looking into it. They just shrug their shoulders, and that's it. They don't research, make phone calls, nothing.

And what angers me even more is many of them will NEVER tell anyone they sleep with that they have HIV, but yet will go around fucking like rabbits all week. Do that in Canada, and you get thrown in jail.


I also worry about the fact that as he is not a Thai citizen he will not even be entitled to the treatment options of the average Thai.

Yep, he's fucked there.


What should I do?

The typical Thai thing. Say mai bpen lai, and continue on with your life.

His attitude is typical of Buddhist fatalism. I have encountered the the same behavior with my friends Thai boyfriend. They live in Pattaya and after awhile he took the boy to Dr. Phillipe in Pattaya. I doubt If the good doctor cares where the boy is from. Check out this link www.heartt2000.org/ (http://www.heartt2000.org/)

[Hmmm]

Before you cast judgement, realize that the generic ARV therapy produced by the Thai government is not free, it is over 1000 baht a month, way beyond the capabilities of poor Thais (ie around a week's salary).

On top of that CD4 tests are several times that amount. That's partly why the Thai expert consensus is not to start ARV until CD4 drops below 200 (the developed world is generally moving towards 500), and to not do CD4 tests as often as in the west. On top of that, the best drugs to treat the common infections are often too expensive for Thai HIV patients. So they succumb relatively quickly.

I suspect that there are a large number of Thai lads (and lasses) who are diagnosed only after they've finished sex work and gone back to the farm, 10 years or so after initial infection, and die there ... out of sight, out of mind as far as most farang are concerned.

...I suspect that there are a large number of Thai lads (and lasses) who are diagnosed only after they've finished sex work and gone back to the farm, 10 years or so after initial infection, and die there ... out of sight, out of mind as far as most farang are concerned.

A good point - but let's get some balance - I am certain that the HIV+ ex-sex workers you refer to are equally unconcerned about the fate of the punters they undoubtedly infected during the period of time they were fucking for a living, in blissful ignorance of their HIV status!

:bounce: :bounce:

My friend never needed the anti-virals, But without access to cancer treatment the lymphatic cancer that the HIV triggered would have killed him first, or treatment for tuberculosis, or one one the bouts of flu that hospitalized him (because his immune system is fucked) he would have died a long time ago and not from Aids, but just indirectly from having HIV

[cameroncat]

The Punters would not "Undoubtedly be infected" if they practiced safe sex. If you have unsafe sex with someone just because they don't tell you they are HIV+, you're an idiot.
I know one ex Moneyboy who is living with HIV and he refuses to take Meds. Not because he can't afford them, but because he doesn't like how the "make him feel". I keep telling him he's going to feel a lot worse soon if he doesn't take them, and then he won't feel anything. Permanently.

[Brisboy82]

The Punters would not "Undoubtedly be infected" if they practiced safe sex. If you have unsafe sex with someone just because they don't tell you they are HIV+, you're an idiot.
I know one ex Moneyboy who is living with HIV and he refuses to take Meds. Not because he can't afford them, but because he doesn't like how the "make him feel". I keep telling him he's going to feel a lot worse soon if he doesn't take them, and then he won't feel anything. Permanently.

Certainly the attitude of expecting to know whether a bar boy has HIV or not or thinking that you are in danger sleeping with someone who is positive is a bit of a disturbing one. You should always assume ht whoever you sleep with is possibly positive and if you use protection then it Gould make no difference.

That's why hose rapid clinics around sunee plaza are a mixed blessing. It's nice to have access to such a facility but are people taking their bar boys there and thinking that a negative result actually means they don't have HIV and that it is safe to bareback. This is the same reason why I don't believe in HIV trying in the bars. Not only is it an invasion of privacy but it would doubles lead to a false sense of security and
More unsafe sex Which creates more danger for all involved.

Assume your boy is positive and behave accordingly. And don't go thinking it is your right to know his personal health business if he doesn't want to share that information.

[Patexpat]

Before you cast judgement, realize that the generic ARV therapy produced by the Thai government is not free, it is over 1000 baht a month, way beyond the capabilities of poor Thais (ie around a week's salary).

On top of that CD4 tests are several times that amount. That's partly why the Thai expert consensus is not to start ARV until CD4 drops below 200 (the developed world is generally moving towards 500), and to not do CD4 tests as often as in the west. On top of that, the best drugs to treat the common infections are often too expensive for Thai HIV patients. So they succumb relatively quickly.

I suspect that there are a large number of Thai lads (and lasses) who are diagnosed only after they've finished sex work and gone back to the farm, 10 years or so after initial infection, and die there ... out of sight, out of mind as far as most farang are concerned.

Sorry but depending upon which health scheme a Thai qualifies for, it can be and is free for many Thais ... and this, unfortunately, is based on direct experience with Thai people. For example, if they are employed they should have a social security card which does entitle them to free treatment. They may have to pay a small monthly deduction from their salary for the card (although I pay 100% for my employees) but a lot of treatment (not just HIV related) is then free. If they don't have a social card, they can enroll in what was the B30 scheme and then receive treatment. I know Thai's who have benefited from both, one of whom was brought back from deaths door, quite literally.

Not sure if either cover more complex treatments in cases of HIV resistance though - I suspect not.

And the govt hospital in Sri Racha has an excellent record for treating HIV infection. There really is no comparison in the treatment there, and what you might get at a hospital in Nakhon Nowhere ...

[Yraen]

PatexPat:

More details please through my email. My bf has this 'issue' and is accessing the B1,000/mth Govt assistance but if there are any other supports he can get I would appreciate the details. Esp about health/social security cards; how to get, where to get, etc

Thanks.

The Punters would not "Undoubtedly be infected" if they practiced safe sex. If you have unsafe sex with someone just because they don't tell you they are HIV+, you're an idiot...

Yes we know that - but unfortunately for some people they are idiots and impulse gets the better of sense - in all manner of ways, not just sexual.

Givng us platitudes may make you feel superior, but it actually achieves nothing.

:occasion9:

[kittyboy]

The Punters would not "Undoubtedly be infected" if they practiced safe sex. If you have unsafe sex with someone just because they don't tell you they are HIV+, you're an idiot...

Yes we know that - but unfortunately for some people they are idiots and impulse gets the better of sense - in all manner of ways, not just sexual.

Givng us platitudes may make you feel superior, but it actually achieves nothing.

:occasion9:

I am of just the right age (or wrong age) 51 to have been through the worst of the HIV epidemic. Before Protease inhibitors going to funerals was a common event in my life so I still get very emotional when I think about HIV.

I do not know why but I feel more sympathy for the bar boys. It might be they have less power in the sexual relationship and I guess I feel that they were more likely to contract HIV because of their economic circumstances. Maybe I am wrong and if they contract HIV they are just as stupid and careless as the men who pay for sex with them. (but we are all careless and stupid at times)

In any case the prognosis for long term health and survival is not good unless a person has access to medical care and drugs. A sad case.

[Brisboy82]

I also have more sympathy for the bar boys as the customers do have some power over them. My friend didn't want to have unprotected sex. In fact he was quite fearful of it. But he felt he had to do whatever he had to do to please his customers.

There are many boys here without proper docuentation from Burma etc. One of my boys and the one I love and have loved the most for many years became HIV+. His attitude was that he did not have enough for the meds and that he did not want me to pay for them because after I am gone, he wont have the money for the meds then.

I think I talked to him until I was blue in the face. He had the tests done through Dr Phillip and the good Dr. was very worried about him because he refused to do anything about it. He was destined to die.
J..... is a bueautiful boy who believe it or not has never stolen from me and never lied to me. he just has this mental thing about HIV and goes to the karaoke and sings till dawn and cries. I love him so.

I was thilled one day when he came to me... about one year later of me screaming that he could not go before me, and agreed to go back to see Dr Phillip and go on to meds. In return I have asked my freinds to take care of him after and they have promised me to do so, as well as to set up with my executor back home to use my life insurance soley to send him money each month for tests and meds.

He is lucky. Not many boys are this lucky. Reach out if you can and help someone you care for.

PS. Has never worked in my bar and after I met him 4 years ago stopped working at another bar. If he was HIV at that time, he did not know it.

His attitude is typical of Buddhist fatalism. I have encountered the the same behavior with my friends Thai boyfriend. They live in Pattaya and after awhile he took the boy to Dr. Phillipe in Pattaya. I doubt If the good doctor cares where the boy is from. Check out this link http://www.heartt2000.org/


Have you spoke to the boy about treatment! Have you contacted the good doctor! brisboy82.....No sense going on about it if you don't act on it!

The doctor cares NOT where the boy or girl is from. Just he needs them to pay for their tests at whichever clinic they get blood work done and the medicines.

The doctor cares NOT where the boy or girl is from. Just he needs them to pay for their tests at whichever clinic they get blood work done and the medicines.


Well Brisguy82 there is your answer, If he is willing to go then take him and pay the small amount for his tests! Instead of just talking about it do something about it, now that you have the info you've asked for!

The doctor cares NOT where the boy or girl is from. Just he needs them to pay for their tests at whichever clinic they get blood work done and the medicines.


Well Brisguy82 there is your answer, If he is willing to go then take him and pay the small amount for his tests! Instead of just talking about it do something about it, now that you have the info you've asked for!

If I recall the tests are about $90 US every 2 or 3 months. The medications are about $100 US a month.
IF, and I want to say IF you are willing to do this, its for the LONG HAUL, then one of the first things you have to do is to convince him that you will be there for the LONG HAUL. He must be convinced that you will be there for all time and need to show him that you have made provissions for after you are not.
That was the problem I had with J.... He was unconvinced that there was someone that would always be there for him and so why not die and get it over with. YOU need to first sit down and LOOK at these costs and DECIDE IF you are going to be there for the long haul and set up some sort of trust to keep paying for tests and meds after you are gone. If not, you are just fooling yourself and being cruel to him because you need to remember that once they have STARTED MEDS, coming off them, it comes quick. Good luck with whatever you decide.
:love4: :love4: :love4: :love4: