Lowest tip ever?

[christianpfc]

I would never offer anything below 500 THB tip to a boy, but I onced ended paying 200 THB тАУ for long time! Nothing to be proud of, but everything went wrong:

It was in January in a bar in Boyztown in Pattaya. There were 3 boys who were my type, I watched as one was offed, and the second was already sitting with a customer. So I offed the third without long chatting. When we left the bar, I saw that he wore make-up (a turn-off for me, now I understand why there are short-time rooms in the bars!). We went back to my accommodation near Sunee. It turned out that he spoke very little English (another turn-off; despite working in a bar for two years).

Then, after showering, some listless playing around. His underwear has stains from make-up (a further turn-off). Before any real action can take place, he wants to leave. After some communication problems, he calls mamasan, we speak on the phone in English, but I still donтАЩt understand. He leaves. I wonder why he did not ask for money, but soon later I get a call from the reception (where he explained in Thai and they translated into English). After all this hassle, we sleep and I hope the next morning will be better.

But it isnтАЩt. After some playing around (with not much effect), he goes to the bathroom and smokes in there. My guesthouse has a non-smoking policy, and IтАЩm sure he knew about it! I have a very fine nose for smoke, and itтАЩs a huge turn-off, so no more action. I once read that giving no tip can backfire badly, so I give him 200 THB, and I donтАЩt increase after a call to mamasan. He tried to negotiate from 500 to 400 to 300 (with hindsight, I should have accepted 300 THB as a solution that saves face for both of us, but I was angry about the smoking in the bathroom).

I think itтАЩs best not to go to that bar again soon, he will probably tell the other boys his version of the story, so that any further off will start under a bad omen.

Others ask in the bar if the boy bottoms, I should ask if he wears make up or smokes cigarettes. At least I can see in the bar if the number of tattoos is below the threshold where a boy becomes un-offable.

Technically, you could blame me, because IтАЩm very sensitive to bullshit, it quickly kills my appetite. One call to mamasan due to a boyтАЩs inability to communicate in English is sufficient. (Fortunately now; after learning Thai, this canтАЩt happen any more.)

Any similar stories? What was your lowest tip? What was your worst off?

[gerefan2]

What was your worst off?

Probably the lead boy "Singer" of a group that performed at Topman a few years ago.

Very cute but had just had his hair done like a mohican and coudlnt stop looking at himself in the mirror, even when doing the "action" (such as it was)!
Also spent all the time, when not looking at himself, ensuring that nothing in any way interfered with the fucking hair.

So "memo" to self...
1. No more offs when a guy has a "high" hairdo and...
2. Be very circumspect if selecting the cutest one in the bar!

I would have had more fun offing BabBoyBilly!

I haven't has a really bad experience, but have had one or two disappointing ones where the boy seemed fairly uninterested.

I always paid the full tip irrespective - by which I mean 1000ST/1500LT in Pattaya - my thinking being that it's hardly a fortune and not worth making a fuss about.

When that hapenned I just didn't hire that boy again - but always remain on friendly terms.

Seems simple enough.

:dontknow: :dontknow:

when offing a boy, my suggestion would be to sit and talk to the boy and get any conditions discussed and understood prior to offing a boy.
I believe many of your problems may have been avoided?

[Smiles]

" ... His underwear has stains from make-up ... "
Are you certain it was from the make-up? How does that happen?
Call me stupid, but ~ off the top ~ I can think of only four stainable reasons ... three of them unmentionable body fluids/solids (and you don't even need to think out of the box) and the fourth from wiping his mouth with his underwear after a take out of Pad Thai or Pizza (even I've done the latter . . . oops, I forgot: make that, someone else's underwear).
Any other thoughts?

[cameroncat]

These are prostitutes being paid to have sex with someone they have no interest in (or maybe not even their preferred sex). Some of them are just better "Actors" then others....

" ... His underwear has stains from make-up ... "
Are you certain it was from the make-up? How does that happen?

Surely it depends what he's applying the make-up to?

Maybe it was Nivea whitening cream and he wanted his cock to be like Michael Jackson's?

:occasion9:

[bucknaway]

The worst tip I witnessed was at Babylon when they had the outside Internet Cafe. A couple of guys drank coffee and tea at a small table and left a modest mess for the waiter leaving him a two baht tip. The waiter threw the coins away with a huff.

From where I sat, I felt the waiter deserved better.

Well now that someone has led the way into the OPs disiscussion, I will add my thoughts also.
As you said, how do you know it was makeup on the underwear? Did you examine his underwear? Do a bikini search?
Next, I would have thought that if you sat with the boy for a little while and LOOKED at the boy, you should have noticed if he had makeup on his face or not. As you said that was such a turn off if in fact he had some. many wear skin lightening cream or powder to appear lighter skin as they feel that being darker is ugly. Next, if you had talked to the boy, maybe you would have noticed that he did not speak English. again, such a big turn off for you and you might have noticed this if you spoke to him. And finally, you said that the boy should have certainly known that smoking in your cabin or villa was strictly not allowed. Well how the heck was he supposed to know that? Did you notice he was a smoker when you picked him up? Did you point to the cigarettes and point outside your villa or show him where he could smoke that night so that he was certainly aware of the area where you permitted him to smoke so that he did not have to "sneak" a cigarette?

In closing, the boy spent all night with you. These problems while they were so distasteful to you, deserved a reward of more than 200 baht. I think you should have thought that the boy would tell everyone about the 200 baht tip before you gave it to him. you certainly had all night to think of all things distasteful to you that led to such a cheap tip. Just my opinion.

[thonglor55]

It turned out that he spoke very little English (another turn-off; despite working in a bar for two years).Did you want to fuck him or discuss Plato's Symposium?

[Brisboy82]

Why does he need to speak English? Lack of English can be a real turn on!

A boy does not "have to speak English" my dear Briboys. But the OP said that he gave the boy a bad tip based on some things he found distasteful. One of which was that he did not speak English. Certainly something one might have picked up on had he sat and "spoke" to the boy and discussed his plans with, prior to taking him off.

[Brisboy82]

Indeed one would think a lack of English would be noticed in the initial discussion with the boy.

I offed a boy in BKK who spoke not one word of Engilsh and he carried a little Thai-English dictionary with him. I found it very charming.

I mean to say that at some pouint you decided to keep him for all night. That was the turning point of being able to throw him out with nothing or barely nothing and the point of consuming his time all night. 200 baht for all night? :dontknow:

Why does he need to speak English? Lack of English can be a real turn on!


Hmmmm, I disagree

When you're on your hands and knees and they are fucking you like a dirty, filthy, bitch-whore, it's just not the same when they do the cursing & swearing at you in Thai!!

:sign5:

I don't understand, beside makeup and the impossibility to communicate did you have sex with him? Did he spend the night with you as arranged? Then why didn't you pay what is a more appropriate tip for a long time? (I am starting to talk like you guys...:-) ).

If the interesting conversation was part of the dial then you are right and you did the right thing not paying him.
If he refused to have sex with you or do what had been previously arranged with him or the mamasan then you did the right thing.

In all other cases he was not responsible for your "turn-off" and it is really unfair of you to blame it on him if you offed the wrong guy according to your "turn-ons" and "turn-offs"

[christianpfc]

You are right, I made some mistakes. Precipitous offing is not a good idea (therefore we did not change many words in the bar so I didnтАЩt notice how poor his English was). The lights in the bars are treacherous, sometimes you can see the make-up, other times you donтАЩt see it.

The coulour stains on the underwear were from a light-brown powdry substance, it looked exaclty like stains I once had on a pillow from the face of a boy who had a make-up I didnтАЩt notice.

As I have an underwear fetish, clean and correct fitting underwear is important to me.

I did not notice any smoking paraphernalia when I offed him, so I assumed he is a non-smoker. My fault, next time I will enquire before offing and avoid taking a boy who smokes cigarettes.

I like to have a bit of conversation on the way back to my hotel. Now I speak basic Thai, so lack of English is no problem any more. One problem solved.

He did some chuck-wao on me (thatтАЩs all I wanted), and we did some hugging and cuddling, but I did not come because IтАЩm so sensitive to little annoyances as described above. No money, no honey, or in this case: no cum, no money.

Well, IтАЩm not experienced in offing (I think this was my fourth off), experiences with freelancers or non-money-boys are much better.

I read or heard stories of farang claiming the off-fee back if the did not as agreed in the bar.

Christianpfc, no offence meant - but it seems to me that you have so many little peccadiloes and annoyances that many (perhaps most) boys would have difficulty in ticking all the right boxes for you.

Therefore I believe it is incumbent on YOU to take extra measures to ensure the boy is suitable, rather than choose on a whim and later take your disappointment out on the boy by way of cutting his tip.

If you are such a knicker fetishist, why don't you consider keeping a stock of whatever it is that you like - and the boy can then wear exactly what you want him to wear? That would seem a sensible way to avoid disappointment.

I'm sorry but I find your behaviour pretty inconsiderate really.

:occasion9:

[christianpfc]

I know I'm difficult to please, so it's miraculous that most encounters with Thai boys are in the range of ok to good. But this worst experience had to be told to get other's opinions and see what I can do better next time (I off much less than I would like to because I'm too hesitant, on the other hand this off was too rushed - fear of being left on the shelf after the other two boys I considered offable were already gone).

You are right, I made some mistakes. (therefore we did not change many words in the bar so I didnтАЩt notice how poor his English was)....... I like to have a bit of conversation on the way back to my hotel..
And all this time you had no idea that he did not speak English. :dontknow:

As I have an underwear fetish, clean and correct fitting underwear is important to me..
SG is right, maybe you should have had a pair you wanted him to wear as it is "so important" to you, or did you think that they all wear Calvin Kleins or Hugo Boss? :sign5:


I did not notice any smoking paraphernalia when I offed him, so I assumed he is a non-smoker. My fault, next time I will enquire before offing and avoid taking a boy who smokes cigarettes..
I cannot believe that he did not light up all the way to your hotel room or before, during or after sex. Not until the next morning when he "sneaked a cigarette in the bathroom".

He did some chuck-wao on me (thatтАЩs all I wanted), and we did some hugging and cuddling, but I did not come because IтАЩm so sensitive to little annoyances as described above. No money, no honey, or in this case: no cum, no money.
I read or heard stories of farang claiming the off-fee back if the did not as agreed in the bar.
That has got to be the BEST and stupidest thing to say..... "thats all I wanted" was to be cuddled, chuck-wao, hugging and spent ALL NIGHT with you and then not until the next morning did you decide to throw him out with 200 baht because YOU decided that you did not want to come.

Well all I have to say is that as there was no conversation in the barbecause HE SPOKE NO ENGLISH, there could be no way for you to "discuss what you wanted" in the bar.

I think you behaviour is disgraceful, shit, I am out of words, the story you tell is so absolutely disgusting on your part. I would be horrified to even repeat it but then again I would NEVER have done something so disgraceful!

And then you want to go back to the bar and demand your off fee back?!
I would throw your ass our so fast it wasn't funny and ask you never to return, and I am so customer orientated it is pathetic, BUT DEAR YOU CROSS THE LINE!! I would rush back to the bar and give him 800 baht more to make it at least 1000 baht and apoliogize! PLEASE! Stay outta my bar! You are the customer from hell !!

:hello1: :hello1: :hello1:

[cdnmatt]

I read or heard stories of farang claiming the off-fee back if the did not as agreed in the bar.

My god, please don't tell me people actually do that. These are poverty stricken young prostitutes who more than likely have spent the majority of their lives on a rice farm in an Issan village, and some of you guys seem to expect the same level of professionalism as you would from a lawyer.

Back in the days, I always did the same as scottish. Even once back at the room, if it was apparent they didn't want to be there, we wouldn't do anything, and I'd still give them a good 1500 baht tip, and send them on their way with a smile. I'm not about to shove this poor guy out of my room with 60 baht for taxi money, then rush down to the bar, shame the guy in front of everyone, and demand my 300 baht off fee back. That's just wrong on so many levels...

[Beachlover]

Judging by his past posts, I don't think Christian is a genuinely bad guy. He's just a bit naive and lacks some self awareness and empathy/understanding.

Christian, your expectations weren't reasonable. How professional do you expect an uneducated gogo boy to be?

The boy didn't steal from you or lie to you. He didn't make any promises he didn't deliver on. He was possibly young, immature and inexperienced. He might've been a bit bewildered being in the company of a farang he couldn't communicate clearly with.

On your part, you didn't ask any questions or set any specific agreement. You didn't request English. You're sensitive to smoke but didn't specify no smoking (strange, in a country where a significant portion of people smoke). Didn't say anything about no make up either.

You didn't make your expectations clear but still used up the boy's time. Non payment would be unacceptable to any service provider, be it a plumber, lawyer or gogo boy.

Not the end of the world and you'll probably learn. But If you have integrity, go back to that bar, explain you want to apologise and pay, take the boy aside, explain you are sorry for treating him unfairly and give him whatever's fair for the time you took up. On the other hand, it was months ago so he might have moved on since.

Sorry Beachie but your arguement for him just doesn't hold water with me.
The problem is that he did this months ago and months and trips later shows no sense of remorse or embarrasment that he even had the cahones (Spanish) to do it. As a matter of fact the way he wrote his current story, he writes it as though he did it then and would do it now. He sees nothing wrong or shameful with what he did, in fact, he even has the audacity to suggest that he should have gone back to the bar and demanded his money back!
He says all of this TODAY. No Beachie, wrong. He is "the customer from hell". NO SHAME!
:protest: :protest: :protest: :protest:

[thonglor55]

Sorry Beachie but your arguement for him just doesn't hold water with me.Isn't Beachlover someone who claims to get so much free sex in Thailand that he has no need of prostitutes. Yet here he is, setting himself up as an instant expert on "the etiqette of the off" and how punters should behave.

You are right, I made some mistakes. Precipitous offing is not a good idea (therefore we did not change many words in the bar so I didnтАЩt notice how poor his English was). The lights in the bars are treacherous, sometimes you can see the make-up, other times you donтАЩt see it.

The coulour stains on the underwear were from a light-brown powdry substance, it looked exaclty like stains I once had on a pillow from the face of a boy who had a make-up I didnтАЩt notice.

As I have an underwear fetish, clean and correct fitting underwear is important to me.

I did not notice any smoking paraphernalia when I offed him, so I assumed he is a non-smoker. My fault, next time I will enquire before offing and avoid taking a boy who smokes cigarettes.

I like to have a bit of conversation on the way back to my hotel. Now I speak basic Thai, so lack of English is no problem any more. One problem solved.

He did some chuck-wao on me (thatтАЩs all I wanted), and we did some hugging and cuddling, but I did not come because IтАЩm so sensitive to little annoyances as described above. No money, no honey, or in this case: no cum, no money.

Well, IтАЩm not experienced in offing (I think this was my fourth off), experiences with freelancers or non-money-boys are much better.

I read or heard stories of farang claiming the off-fee back if the did not as agreed in the bar.


IT'S PEOPLE WITH YOUR ATTITUDE AND STYLE THAT WE READ ABOUT GETTING MURDERED IN THEIR BEDS IN PATTAYA.

WHY THE BLOODY HELL, DID YOU JUST NOT PAY HIM, PUT IT DOWN TO A HOLIDAY MISTAKE AND MOVE ON, YOU SILLY MAN.

[colmx]

Wholeheartedly agree with Kquill above and others....

When something goes wrong i always "chalk" it up to experience, pay my dues and move on...

Myself and BF have often Off'ed boys over the years for a 3some experience... sometimes the chemistry is right and we all go home together... most of teh time things work out in bed...

Sometimes the chemistry is wrong and one of us goes home with the boy... this leads to a litle bit of resentment... but the other usually gets a gentrl revenge over the coming days...

Other times BF takes the off aside, gives him 500B and tells him we just took him off "for drinking"
Every which way... nobod gets short changed, or loses face..... win/win/win situation

GUYS,


I WON'T BOTHER ANSWERING ANY FOLLOW UP ON THIS SUBJECT, I AM JUST A LITTLE APPALLED BY THE POSTERS BEHAVIOUR TOWARDS THIS KID,WHO PROBABLY HASN'T A CLUE WHAT HE WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE DONE WRONG.

IF I KNEW WHO THE KID WAS, I WOULD GLADLY GIVE HIM A 1000 BAHT AND APOLOGISE FOR THE SHAME THIS MAN HAS BROUGHT ON US! ................┬г4.00!!! $6.00 WELL YOU BIG HEARTED B......D!

:violent1: :violent1: :violent1: :violent1:

[netrix]

Judging by his past posts, I don't think Christian is a genuinely bad guy. He's just a bit naive and lacks some self awareness and empathy/understanding....

this is the kind of guy you see in the bars off to himself, beady little eyes, looking
nervous and creepy. not smiling. not speaking to anyone. alone. the kind of guy
you'd be afraid to sit next to on the train. the kind of guy you picture when you
hear the word "pervert." the kind of guy that gives a place like pattaya a bad name.
they're social outcasts, have never had sex they didn't pay for, and have never had
a relationship in their life, even with their own family.

and they're lurking on forums like this one, just like they skulk around the bars,
not looking for fun or a good time or even feigned affection, but for sympathy,
or attention, or comradery or something...and you guys try to have a logical or
enlightening conversation with them. it's not gonna happen. he's not going to
change. you didn't say anything to him when you saw him groping boys in the bar
without tipping, why do you think it will affect anything if you say something to
him here?!

he's worse than the stereotypical troll, he's the reason your friends raise an
eyebrow when you tell them you're going to thailand.

you didn't say anything to him when you saw him groping boys in the bar without tipping,
Absolutely correct Netrix.... another thing that makes me crazy. They buy them a drink or two and then are offended when someone suggests a tip be given! Their attitude is.... how dare he, I just did him a favor and bought him a drink or two!The boy dancing has a chance for an off. No chance sitting with a customer and they dont tip him and let him go and then he is screwed for the night!

he's worse than the stereotypical troll, he's the reason your friends raise an eyebrow when you tell them you're going to thailand.I never tell anyone Im going to Thailand they all think its full of prossies and anyone who goes there is a sicko pervert and a pedo.

deleted. I posted it on the wrong thread.

...I never tell anyone Im going to Thailand they all think its full of prossies and anyone who goes there is a sicko pervert and a pedo.


Since you never tell "anyone", I presume you include your friends.

Therefore, the question must be asked as to why you choose to associate with persons who are quite apparantly ignorant, narrow-minded, intolerant, and judgemental in matters they know nothing about - and as to why you are content to keep such people as friends?

Sure, we all keep people in our lives with whom we occasionally disagree, but I'm guessing that the kind of people who almost froth at the mouth at the mention of the word "Thailand", and who would be willing to label YOU (their long-time friend) as a sicko pedo pervert simply because you choose to visit Thailand , well, I'm guessing they must be pretty extreme in their other views also.

Out of interest - what feedback do you get from these people regarding your homosexuality - or is that something else you're afraid to mention to these people?

:occasion9:

[Beachlover]

your arguement for him just doesn't hold water with me... He is "the customer from hell". NO SHAME!
I totally agree he's the customer from hell! But I think you miss-read my post. I said what he did was wrong and didn't defend that. But I don't think he's a genuinely bad guy, judging by his other posts. He's just got very low emotional intelligence. Lacks empathy and self awareness. Can't put himself in other peoples' shoes.

You need to see the trip report he posted when he first joined the site. Smiles thought he was taking the piss but he was genuinely being deadly serious!
gay-thailand-f9/trip-report-2010-2010-bangkok-pattaya-t20005.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand-f9/trip-report-2010-2010-bangkok-pattaya-t20005.html) ... see? It ain't pretty.

He might have a robot personality and but that doesn't make him a genuinely bad guy. Just a bit stupid and oblivious to others' situation. There's a difference between guys like him and guys who are genuine arseholes.


this is the kind of guy you see in the bars off to himself, beady little eyes, looking nervous and creepy. not smiling. not speaking to anyone. alone. the kind of guy you'd be afraid to sit next to on the train. the kind of guy you picture when you hear the word "pervert." the kind of guy that gives a place like pattaya a bad name.
they're social outcasts, have never had sex they didn't pay for, and have never had a relationship in their life, even with their own family.
Haha... totally accurate description! Pattaya is FULL of these types. It attracts these types because they can actually feel accepted, to a certain extent, there.

[christianpfc]

I cannot believe that he did not light up all the way to your hotel room or before, during or after sex. Not until the next morning when he "sneaked a cigarette in the bathroom"
He did not.


And then you want to go back to the bar and demand your off fee back I would never do something like this. I wrote I read or heard about it (though I cannot remember where).


[ you decide to throw him out with 200 baht because YOU decided that you did not want to come.
could not come


Even once back at the room, if it was apparent they didn't want to be there, we wouldn't do anything, and I'd still give them a good 1500 baht tip, and send them on their way with a smile.
Now I learned that the place to find out if a boy likes to be with me is in the bar and not in my room. However should it ever happen again that I notice only in my room that the boy is not comfortable, I would not continue (I canтАЩt have fun if he is uncomfortable), however I would not give a full tip.


Judging by his past posts, I don't think Christian is a genuinely bad guy. He's just a bit naive and lacks some self awareness and empathy/understanding.
Thank you.


He was possibly young, immature and inexperienced. He might've been a bit bewildered being in the company of a farang he couldn't communicate clearly with.
I asked him, he had been working there for two years.


As a matter of fact the way he wrote his current story, he writes it as though he did it then and would do it now. He sees nothing wrong or shameful with what he did I would not do it again.


in fact, he even has the audacity to suggest that he should have gone back to the bar and demanded his money back! I would never do.


WHY THE BLOODY HELL, DID YOU JUST NOT PAY HIM, PUT IT DOWN TO A HOLIDAY MISTAKE AND MOVE ON, YOU SILLY MAN.
I will do so next time. (Well I hope I will never get into such a situation again.)


this is the kind of guy
Well if you think you know enough about me to judge me, I think you donтАЩt.


when you saw him groping boys in the bar
Never did, will never do.


without tipping
I always tip when I have a boy sitting with me.



have never had sex they didn't pay for
Plenty! But from time to time, I find it easier to go to a bar.


I never tell anyone Im going to Thailand they all think its full of prossies and anyone who goes there is a sicko pervert and a pedo.
Everyone who wants to know why I go to Thailand for holiday just has to ask me and will get a honest response.


You need to see the trip report he posted when he first joined the site. Smiles thought he was taking the piss but he was genuinely being deadly serious!
gay-thailand-f9/trip-report-2010-2010-bangkok-pattaya-t20005.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand-f9/trip-report-2010-2010-bangkok-pattaya-t20005.html) ... see? It ain't pretty.
This is not representative of my current view.

Let me repeat: This is one off that went wrong. All other encounters with Thai boys (money involved or not) ended with both side's satisfaction.


He's just got very low emotional intelligence. Lacks empathy and self awareness. Can't put himself in other peoples' shoes. He might have a robot personality
This partially overlaps with how I see myself. To my defence I have to say that until my coming-out at age 28 I learned how to suppress emotions, I had all my family and friends convinced that I was asexual.

I have just finished reading the post above and especially his post from
gay-thailand-f9/trip-report-2010-2010-bangkok-pattaya-t20005.html ...
I swear to GOD he is the customer from hell and needs urgent care. I mean urgent psychiatric care!

[christianpfc]

It's so easy to judge about people you don't know. Maybe I pop into your bar on my next holiday and say hello to you. (Scared?)

It's so easy to judge about people you don't know. Maybe I pop into your bar on my next holiday and say hello to you. (Scared?)
Go ahead and pop in and introduce yourself. Try it and when the doormen throw you out on your ass we shall who laughs last.
You think I dont know you? I have read your insane anally retentive garbage for over an hour already. I know you and as I said, you are mentally ill!
Anyone at all on SGF think this persos does NOT need urgent metal couselling???Anyone?

[Beachlover]

He's just got very low emotional intelligence. Lacks empathy and self awareness. Can't put himself in other peoples' shoes. He might have a robot personality
This partially overlaps with how I see myself. To my defence I have to say that until my coming-out at age 28 I learned how to suppress emotions, I had all my family and friends convinced that I was asexual.
Fair enough... I think you should read up about emotional intelligence as this is something you can develop and improve if you're willing to push yourself. For someone so sheltered, you seem willing to explore and get outside your comfort zone, which is good.


I have just finished reading the post above and especially his post from
gay-thailand-f9/trip-report-2010-2010-bangkok-pattaya-t20005.html ...
You did not! :sign5: I will bet you $100 bucks you did not manage to read every single word of that trip report! :rolling:



It's so easy to judge about people you don't know. Maybe I pop into your bar on my next holiday and say hello to you. (Scared?)
You think I dont know you? I have read your insane anally retentive garbage for over an hour already.
You're trying to give yourself a brain tumor aren't you? :sign5:



Maybe I pop into your bar on my next holiday and say hello to you. (Scared?)Go ahead and pop in and introduce yourself. Try it and when the doormen throw you out on your ass we shall who laughs last.
Come on... The guy may be somewhat screwed in the head but he's mostly harmless. Not a genuine arsehole. He's just not very aware or perceptive. Give him a chance.

[christianpfc]

Justme, now I remember, I already went to your bar, if I remember correctly it was shortly after the opening last summer. And, did I cause any problems? Obviously not.

Harmless? He will be more problems then he is worth.
Beachie, you are right! I could not get through the last few paragraphs and had to skip. It was just incredibly stupid!
Chrstian: You visited the bar slightly after opening, a year ago... and do I remember? Yes, about 5,000 customers ago.... sure I do....you were the dwarf that came in with Scottish Guy, Surfcrest and Once Is Too Much. Thonglor was taking up the rear. Unbelievably stupid!
Christian: You dont seem to understand. If you came in... did you cause trouble? Well I dont remember any customer from a year ago, but my point is that NONE of my boys have been so bad to me that I wish any of them on you. Please stay away from my bar and my boys. They owe me big time for that!
:sign5:

I wish that nobody needed to defend themselves against others. Nobody.
Hypocrisy, justme is thy name.

[stevehadders]

This whole episode is really weird - KQ is right - just pay up and get over it....

There certainly are some weird punters around:

In the past week or so we have heard about:

Christianpfc with his knicker fetish and anti-smoking, anti-makeup, anti-native speakers hangups who paid a boy 200B and wondered if he ought to go back to the bar for a refund of the off fee.

Some unidentified punter in Happy Place who tried to diddle Unkie out of the 300B off fee

And some other one somewhere else who was paying 100B to take assorted boys into a room to shine a flashlight up each boy's bum crack. That one was meant to be a "story" - but I suspect it was really just a personal catharsis for the author

What next?

:sign5:

[christianpfc]

Please stay away from my bar and my boys.Well, as there are plenty of bars and no boy in your bar seemed special to me, this is easily done. However, I cannot promise, maybe on a whim I really pop in and say hello to you, just to prove that you are wrong about me.

The part with the trouble was a joke. I never caused any trouble anywhere.


and wondered if he ought to go back to the bar for a refund of the off fee.
No, no, no! I did not! I just read or heard that such things occured.

As well as the story of a group of (put in any nationality you don't like) who ordered one drink and several straws and then tried to off one girl (I read it on a straight forum) to serve them all.

[Beachlover]

There certainly are some weird punters around...
What! In Pattaya? According to some people, Pattaya is full of respectable, upstanding gentlemen. So much so they get very upset if you suggest otherwise! :hello1:


this is easily done. However, I cannot promise, maybe on a whim I really pop in and say hello to you, just to prove that you are wrong about me.
Go for it! He'll have no idea who you are! :sign5:

It cracks me up, picturing Justme sitting there in stunned amazement for over an hour reading your COMPLETELY insane trip report. :rolling:

gay-thailand-f9/trip-report-2010-2010-bangkok-pattaya-t20005.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand-f9/trip-report-2010-2010-bangkok-pattaya-t20005.html)

Anyone at all on SGF think this persos does NOT need urgent metal couselling???Anyone?
Surprising words from the American owner of the go-go bar тАЬHappy PlaceтАЭ in Pattaya.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7b/1930_pattern_Schutzstaffel_uniform_with_shoulder_b oard.png
Your expert for тАЬurgent metal cousselingтАЭ from our customer service department


Go ahead and pop in and introduce yourself. Try it and when the doormen throw you out on your ass we shall who laughs last.
Surprising words from the American owner of the go-go bar тАЬHappy PlaceтАЭ in Pattaya.


If you are such a knicker fetishist, why don't you consider keeping a stock of whatever it is that you like - and the boy can then wear exactly what you want him to wear? That would seem a sensible way to avoid disappointment.
Exactly. Offer underwear, Thai sizes S to L or only M.

I opened the tread to see what others think about it.
I am offended by Christians attempt to paint this now as a question. There is nothing in the original post to suggest that he was asking for the "advice" of others on whether or not wha the did months ago to a boy was proper or not. A sham to cover up his unbelievably obnoxious strange selfish behavior.

The headline asks "lowest tip ever?" but goes on to say that he would never give anything under 500 baht....what a big spender.....but then specifically states "but once I did give 300 baht for a long timer. That is nt a question or asking for advice. It is a clear and concise statement.

Now he wants to change it around and say he was asking for advice only because he uis getting the piss taken out of him for being sso self centered and stupid.

[cdnmatt]

justme, settle down a bit, before that pulsating vein in the side of your head pops.

I done think my kids and my missus would understand and we have a gay guy at work who keeps talking about my husband what a wanker I done want people to think Im someone like him.

I done think my kids and my missus would understand and we have a gay guy at work who keeps talking about my husband what a wanker I done want people to think Im someone like him.

I assume this is in reponse to my earlier post.

Thanks for the reply - it explains everything.

:occasion9:

[Marsha-old]

What you must remember, these boys talk. If it gets round that you are a cheap stake, then no boy will go with you.

Even if the boy was a total shit I would have at least paid him 500 baht, but to spend a night and only give 200 baht, you should be shot. At least 1000 baht plus for over night. If no good, then do what KQuill says and pay the boy and put it down to a bad experience.

I still can't believe you paid the boy 200baht.

[netrix]

justme, settle down a bit, before that pulsating vein in the side of your head pops.

:sign5:

[martin911]

To the OP. ----- SHAME ON U !!!!!!!!!
Giving the boy less than the price of a big Mac in most parts of the world,
The boy got naked,played a little,and stayed all night with somebody he probably was not sexually attracted to,and you gave him 200baht
And moaning that as it was only your 4th off ,and u really did not know better is no excuse !!!

If u had an ounce of decency and basic MANNERS you would not have treated the boy this way

Think about it,after being with you ,you then made the boy feel degraded by giving him so little !!!!

Shame on you !!!!!!!

[dab69]

not the lowest tip,
beat by Latintopxxx?

[thonglor55]

Thanks for the reply - it explains everything.You didn't realise that fucking boys not much older than your grandkids isn't a family-friendly policy, scottish-guy?

Thanks for the reply - it explains everything.You didn't realise that fucking boys not much older than your grandkids isn't a family-friendly policy, scottish-guy?

I opted out of being family-friendly many, many years ago when I found that the "norms" expected of me and the way I wanted to lead my life were mostly incompatible and that one of them had to go!

I also opted out of breeding as I found the idea of having sex with a woman, totally repugnant.

I also chose and still choose not to befriend rabid, hompohobic, neanderthals - the kind that make unfounded assumptions if one mentions "Thailand"

None of the above had to do with wanting to fuck boys not much older than any hypothetical grandkids - it was a choice between living a lie + wondering when I'd be caught out, and being honest with myself.

That's what I meant when I said "it explains everything" to Brisbane guy - he has chosen the first option.

:occasion9: :occasion9:

[thonglor55]

[quote="scottish-guy":1cfze4do]Thanks for the reply - it explains everything.You didn't realise that fucking boys not much older than your grandkids isn't a family-friendly policy, scottish-guy?I opted out of being family-friendly many, many years ago when I found that the "norms" expected of me and the way I wanted to lead my life were mostly incompatible and that one of them had to go!

I also chose and still choose not to befriend rabid, hompohobic, neanderthals - the kind that make unfounded assumptions if one mentions "Thailand"[/quote:1cfze4do]You must have a very small circle of friends.

By being choosy, I keep my circle as small as possible.

You'll find the ones who are less fussy, usually have a circle as wide as a horse's collar.

Hence my recent advice to Beachlover on the subject of Anal Prolapse.

:rolling:

not the lowest tip, beat by Latintopxxx?

Sadly, the latintopxxx brand has been discontinued. R.I.P.



Bit of a dilema, was in a gogo bar in soi twilight last night (sex shows have really gone downhill, police clampdown!!) and took a fancy to one of the numbers on the stage, after checking with the "madame" that he was sexually speaking compatible (I speak no Thai and the number only knew about 20 english words) I bought him for 3 hours and off we went to my hotel.
What a disaster, apart from a weak attempt at a BJ he was totally useless in the sex department and not what I was promised. After 30 minutes of this I kicked him out of my room but not before he tried to grab by mobile because I refused to pay him more than THB50, basically taxi money..or whatever. He had already cost me 350 in bar fees!!

Was I wrong? Woke up this morning feeling a bit guilty. Just feel that I was cheated. Think nothing of dropping 20 or 50 into a beggars bowl but got really annoyed when the number turned out to be just about useless; I was really looking forward to an energetic workout andinstead got a lick and a cuddle.
comments anyone!!
gay-thailand-f9/was-wrong-not-pay-the-gogo-boy-t15787.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand-f9/was-wrong-not-pay-the-gogo-boy-t15787.html)

[Brad the Impala]

I also chose and still choose not to befriend rabid, hompohobic, neanderthals

That's Scotland for you!

[quote="scottish-guy":37rt52b5]

I also chose and still choose not to befriend rabid, hompohobic, neanderthals

That's Scotland for you![/quote:37rt52b5]

You're about as funny as Jasper Carrott.

[Beachlover]

His post read like he wanted a round of applause for putting a young man in his place for not living up to his exacting requirements.
I agree it comes across like that but if you've read any of his other posts, you'll see he really is just a really strange robot-type personality who is oblivious and not too aware of what's decent and norm around him.

He doesn't seem the sort of person who is aware or worried about how he comes off to people or what people thinks of him. I think he's just looking to get feedback and he sure got plenty of it! The man knows how to take a beating! :rolling:

I noticed this thread got posted at GBT too and they mostly seemed to think it was fine for him to do that. No complaints One even said the amount was "quite enough"... Now THAT is even more disturbing! :rolling:

http://gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic.php? ... 53&start=0 (http://gaybuttonthai.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3053&start=0)

I m sorry again Beachie. I see nobody agreeing with him and one or 2 that say there are too many cheap Charlies in pattaya. Nobody agreed with him. They did not kill him like here.

[Beachlover]

I m sorry again Beachie. I see nobody agreeing with him...
Are you talking about GBT (the link in my post above) or here?

Nobody disagreed with his decision there. One guy even AGREED with him saying, "Considering the description given by ChristianPFC, 200 baht seems quite enough for those circumstances."... which is disturbing.

Again, I think it was the wrong thing to do but I think the guy's just completely oblivious and not too aware... Not proud of it or anything.

[francois]

Are you talking about GBT (the link in my post above) or here?
Nobody disagreed with his decision there. One guy even AGREED with him saying, "Considering the description given by ChristianPFC, 200 baht seems quite enough for those circumstances."... which is disturbing.


BL, in the post on GayButton Forum, christianpfc did not give full details of his encounter with the boy he stiffed. He did not mention the boy did all that was expected of him and that the boy stayed over night with christian. He omitted crucial details.
Being oblivious is no excuse for being a scoundrel.

[Beachlover]

in the post on GayButton Forum, christianpfc did not give full details of his encounter with the boy he stiffed. He did not mention the boy did all that was expected of him and that the boy stayed over night with christian. He omitted crucial details.
I had another look. The OP there is the same as the OP here. I agree being oblivious is no excuse.

[christianpfc]

I admit I was wrong, but you have to understand that the low tip was the only way I saw to express my dissatisfaction. Before the smoking I was just annoyed, but when I smelled the smoke I was horrified. From my point of view this is an absolute no-no. Now it occurs to me that he might not have known what went wrong.

Low tip does not mean that I didnтАЩt treat him well, I treated him as I treat all my other Thai friends (who are happy to see me again, money involved or not).

The post on gb is by me, and the text is almost the same (I removed a reference to another post on gb that lead to me posting about this experience).

I made a series of mistakes:
I could not catch his view in the bar. (I already forwent some other offs if I could not make eye contact.)
I should have talked to him in the bar to find out that there is no chemistry between us.
I should have ended the off the night and not ask him to stay over night.

I wrote in a neutral style, whatever you interpret is due to the fact that IтАЩm not a native speaker of English.

I was seeking solace and comfort (definitely the wrong place), that others have failed offs as well.

Thanks for the link to the post by latintopxxx, a relief to read that IтАЩm not alone. There even is a post about claiming the off-fee back (wich I would never do), so I did not make this up.

I know date, time, bar, number and name (Thai and English), but currently I think itтАЩs better not to meet him again (i.e. not to go to this bar on my next visit in Pattaya).


I am offended by Christians attempt to paint this now as a question.

They are here, at the end:


Any similar stories? What was your lowest tip? What was your worst off?

Everybody knows how naturally conciliatory I am - so I have devised a way to defuse this issue:

I am hereby offering to fuck christianpfc all night, for cash money.

I will wear clean knickers of his choosing, speak English (kinda), and I wont' even smoke or wear make-up.

I guarantee sex with me will be worth far less than 200B, so he can tip me whatever he likes below that amount and I won't be offended in the least - in fact SGT members will probably post how over-generous his tipping was.

That way he will have broken his lowest-tip record, he will have redeemed himself, and we can all sleep easy in our beds.

How about it christianpfc?

:occasion9:

[kittyboy]

I admit I was wrong, but you have to understand that the low tip was the only way I saw to express my dissatisfaction. Before the smoking I was just annoyed, but when I smelled the smoke I was horrified. From my point of view this is an absolute no-no. Now it occurs to me that he might not have known what went wrong.


Dissatisfied and Horrified were you? Dissatisfied about the general low level of service served up to you by a sex worker in Thailand. Then, Absolutely HORRIFIED. Was it a real chamber of Horrors in that bathroom? All filled with smoke and body parts floating in the bowl?

christianpfc - you will not get much solace on this board. But good luck to you.

As an aside. I have a friend who suffers from Attention Deficit Disorder and has a Compulsive Disorder. He sounds quite a bit like you. Things have to be just so or events must happen in a certain way or he starts getting upset. I generally tell him to shut the fuck up, man up, get over himself and come back and talk to me when he stops acting like a 15 year old girl with emotional problems. Funny he still wants to be my friend. I can not imagine why.
I would be willing to provide that service for you (for a small fee) after you get done fucking Scotishguy. If you are Obsessive Compulsive I know you will wash after your session with Scotishguy...Take the big red guy in the shower with him and get all soapy and dirty.

I can imagine the conversation.
Christianpfc - Who is the dirty boy?
SG - You are!
Christianpfc -I am not I have ADD and am OCD.

It is all very very highly unerotic.

[thonglor55]

When I'm back home and find the service unsatisfactory in a restaurant, I leave a penny tip (one cent for non-Americans).

When I'm back home and find the service unsatisfactory in a restaurant, I leave a penny tip (one cent for non-Americans).
Many people living outside of the USA do not realize that bartenders, waiters, waitresses make near Thai wages because they take into consideration that they usually make a great deal on TIPS. Usually bad bartenders, waiters, waitresses don't last long in this line of business.

Now while I agree that at times I have recieved less than satisfactory service, I take into consideration that they may have too many tables to wait on, the boss is very grumpy and taken their frustration out on them, the previous customer may have been a real dick, they had someone give them the finger on the way to work, maybe a family member had an accident and is on their way to the hospital or maybe they are just on their period that day.
While good service is still desired, outside factors may come into play. They still need to earn a decent wage for giving or attempt to give me service.
I take unsatisfactory service and rather than leaving them the standard 15%, Sometimes I send them a signal by leaving an exceptionally LARGE TIP and usually get extrodinary service from them the next time. Maybe I cut their tip from 15% to 7% but I would never, never insult a person to the degree
of leaving A PENNY. I guess Thonglor while it is only my opinion...YOU WIN, but shame on you. If you think that makes a person's day any better but only worse than it may already be.

[lukylok]

[quote="justme")
Many people living outside of the USA do not realize that bartenders, waiters, waitresses make near Thai wages because they take into consideration that they usually make a great deal on TIPS. Usually bad bartenders, waiters, waitresses don't last long in this line of business.[/quote]

I never understood that system. I you provide a service ie a drink or a meal, you provide it completely, so it is the responsability of the owner to pay decently the bartender/waiter, ... You don't tip a salesman because he has sold you something ! Tip should be only for something exceptionnal. And I don't believe service is better because it is not included.
But then, in the US you don't pay the price shown in the window... there is always some sales tax to add.

But when in Rome, .....

They don't have minimum wage in America then?

I will repeat - there are host bars in Boyztown which pay waiters the equivalent of less than 17B per hour.

Now, just think about 17B an hour - after an hour's work you could not even buy something to eat off a food cart.

I struggle to believe that bars in USA are paying that level of wages (even taking into account the difference in the cost of living) - in fact I don't struggle.. I simply DON'T believe it.

:bounce: :bounce:

[anonone]

They don't have minimum wage in America then?

I will repeat - there are host bars in Boyztown which pay waiters the equivalent of less than 17B per hour.

Now, just think about 17B an hour - after an hour's work you could not even buy something to eat off a food cart.

I struggle to believe that bars in USA are paying that level of wages (even taking into account the difference in the cost of living) - in fact I don't struggle.. I simply DON'T believe it.

:bounce: :bounce:

It has been a long time since I was involved in hospitality industry in US, but I will take a stab at this.

Minimum wage is different for those working in tip industry. Their minimum wage is a smidge over $2 USD, or 60 Baht. Not quite 17B, but not exactly a living wage either.

Too bad no food carts in the US.

On the other hand, working at the right place and being good at it can yield some pretty impressive hourly wages for tipped folks.

That is correct. I think, last time I checked, the waitresses, waiters, bartenders were being paid about $2.50 or $2.75 an hour.
Scottish, that is the allowable rule and law. Seems to me that the problem elsewhere and around the globe is that the tip so to speak is built into the price of the meal. Doing that gives the "service" employee really no incentive to do anything and especially anything above and beyond. They get a higher wage and they really expect NO TIP or a minimum of a tip.
USA is built upon doing an above satisfactory job and getting rewarded for it. Therefore they are paid much less and "most" service employees work their ass off in hopes that you will reward them in return by giving them a good tip.
When I go to restaurants around the world I find service basic and tolerable. There is no incentive to work extra hard.
I am all for our system. Work hard and I will give you something extra. Dont work and make my meal, drink etc enjoyable and I have the power to cut you. I dont feel it is fair to give you extra, automatically built in, until you show me you want to earn it and that is also why I dont like 10% service charge restaurants etc. UP2ME!!

Yes, I agree - I dislike paying a compulsory service charge for 2 reasons:

1. Maybe the service was lousy and you don't want to tip 10% - or you don't want to tip at all!
2. A lot of the time the service charge ends up completely or substantially with the establishment, rather than the staff.

:crybaby:

[thonglor55]

Now while I agree that at times I have recieved less than satisfactory service, I take into consideration that they may have too many tables to wait on, the boss is very grumpy and taken their frustration out on them, the previous customer may have been a real dick, they had someone give them the finger on the way to work, maybe a family member had an accident and is on their way to the hospital or maybe they are just on their period that day.Or maybe they're just lazy - you will never know.

Yes, you are correct thonglor and yes to Scottish also. Here in Thailand I see that the restaurants collect the tip whether compulsory or not and "hold on to it" and then supposedly pay it out once or twice a month between the employees. I DONT LIKE THAT. I like to go to restaurants where I know that the money is divided each and every night AND I always pay the tip in CASH. I dont add it to a credit card as I want to insure that the tip money goes where it is supposed to go. There is a very popular restaurant for Thai food just outside BoysTown that has a few other places, all called by the same name.
Sit on basic metal chairs and tables. I used to like the food.
I stopped going there for a few reasons.... one, I ordered sweet and sour sea bass. Spicy arrived. Sent it back. Three minutes later the same fish was brought where they openly admitted that they washed the other sauce off and put on sweet and sour, refused.
Next the staff told me that wages and tips were witheld because they just could not afford to pay the staff! Well sorry, tips are not wages and should not be fucked with. They are not investment money for the restaurant.
:protest: :protest: :protest: :protest:

[Beachlover]

Christian... Your logic and justification is completely wrong.


I admit I was wrong, but you have to understand that the low tip was the only way I saw to express my dissatisfaction.
Everybody gets this. The problem is, non-payment for services rendered is not an ethical way to express your dissatisfaction. Ever.


Before the smoking I was just annoyed, but when I smelled the smoke I was horrified.
Yes, but what was wrong with the smoking? Did you specify no smoking to him? If, not, what was the problem? Does this mistake justify not paying him for the ENTIRE night?


From my point of view this is an absolute no-no.
That's ONLY from your point of view. It's not the case from his or anyone else's point of view.


Low tip does not mean that I didnтАЩt treat him well, I treated him as I treat all my other Thai friends
Sure. But it does mean you FAILED to pay for services rendered. This wouldn't be acceptable for a plumber, hotel or lawyer. Why would it be acceptable for a gogo boy?


I made a series of mistakes:
That's what you need to recognise. The shortfalls in the services rendered were primarily YOUR fault. You didn't make clear what you wanted. You didn't establish what would be "unacceptable". All the things that bothered you - smoking, make up etc.- may have been perfectly acceptable to other customers.

But yes, I agree that you were only trying to spark a discussion on whether others have had similar experiences or made similar mistakes.


I am hereby offering to fuck christianpfc all night, for cash money.
Right, but if you take the bag off your face, Christian will decide it's unacceptable and refuse to pay you. :rolling:

[Beachlover]

Many people living outside of the USA do not realize that bartenders, waiters, waitresses make near Thai wages because they take into consideration that they usually make a great deal on TIPS. Usually bad bartenders, waiters, waitresses don't last long in this line of business.
I never understood that system. I you provide a service ie a drink or a meal, you provide it completely, so it is the responsability of the owner to pay decently the bartender/waiter, ... You don't tip a salesman because he has sold you something ! Tip should be only for something exceptionnal.
That system is just the way it's done in the US. When you're there, that's what you do. Their wages factor in the addition of tips, which often exceed the salary.

The problem is a lot of Americans FORGET that almost all the rest of the world is different and doesn't work this way.

In Asia, you DON'T tip for stuff as you would in the US. You might round up for the taxi driver or add a tolken tip to a restaurant bill but you don't add a 10-15 or 20% tip unless there's a special reason or the service has been exceptional and outside of what's expected. You don't tip a bar tender. You usually don't tip restaurant waiters.

In Asia, you mainly tip to get something done better/faster (i.e. you need a favour) or when someone's gone out of their way to provide exceptional service.


I dislike paying a compulsory service charge for 2 reasons
I agree... I don't like the "++" system that works in a lot of hospitality service providers in Asia.

I often call up hotels or restaurants (for large bookings) to get a quote and they quote a price that excludes VAT and service charge. Then they're surprised when I dismiss that figure and just ask for the total with all inclusive. It takes them a minute or two to calculate this. Why the f*** would I care about the base price? All I want to know is what I'll be paying in the end of the night and that includes VAT and service charge!

I wonder if this is a legacy issue (i.e. they introduced it and everyone started quoting separate so they all do). I wish they'd just just list the total price.

In Australia we have GST (same as VAT) but you don't bother separating the GST from the total price for B2C sales (only for B2B).

[christianpfc]

I am hereby offering to fuck christianpfc all night, for cash money.
Please apply via PM with a clear facepic.


so it is the responsability of the owner to pay decently the bartender/waiter, ... You don't tip a salesman because he has sold you something !
Exactly what I think! I don't like this entire idea of tipping and I only tip because it is customary. (Not to be confused with tips to boy, which are there to circumvent prostitution.)
What's next? Tipping the cashier at the supermarket?


USA is built upon doing an above satisfactory job and getting rewarded for it. Therefore they are paid much less and "most" service employees work their ass off in hopes that you will reward them in return by giving them a good tip. ... I am all for our system. Work hard and I will give you something extra. Dont work and make my meal, drink etc enjoyable and I have the power to cut you.
The payment by the employer should be enough to make people try do do a good job. Furthermore, I can't see how waiters can make a meal more enjoyable. They bring your food and your drink. That's their job. The cook cooks it, because it's his job. If he has no pride in cooking a good meal for every customer, regardless of tip, then he shouldn't be a cook. There are even restaurants where you are served by an automat (never been to one, just know from the internet).

My conclusion: A world without tipping, where everyone is payed a decent wage, would be much simpler. And there is no disappointment by low or no tips.

I am hereby offering to fuck christianpfc all night, for cash money.
Please apply via PM with a clear facepic....

Please allow for delays whilst I have the paper bag surgically removed.

[thonglor55]

Please allow for delays whilst I have the paper bag surgically removed.An operation akin to circumcision.

Please allow for delays whilst I have the paper bag surgically removed.

Who's the unlucky surgeon Scotty?

Please allow for delays whilst I have the paper bag surgically removed.

Who's the unlucky surgeon Scotty?

It's a Dr T. - he came highly recommended.

I doubt he'll be happy though - christianpfc is paying the tip.


:occasion9:

[cdnmatt]

Furthermore, I can't see how waiters can make a meal more enjoyable. They bring your food and your drink. That's their job. The cook cooks it, because it's his job. If he has no pride in cooking a good meal for every customer, regardless of tip, then he shouldn't be a cook.

http://blackandteal.com/files/2011/05/polar-bear-face-palm_thumbnail1.jpg

I agree that a society built on not tipping is certainly preferable. Its just not what the USA has bukit its society as the norm.
As far as cooks, well it is my understanding that tips are usually shared although there are some exceptions. They are required to pool a certain amount of their tips.

[christianpfc]

I am hereby offering to fuck christianpfc all night, for cash money.
Please apply via PM with a clear facepic.
Or better not? There must be a reason why you wear this bag. - And I don't want to know!

I'm happy to repeat:

Furthermore, I can't see how waiters can make a meal more enjoyable. They bring your food and your drink. That's their job. The cook cooks it, because it's his job. If he has no pride in cooking a good meal for every customer, regardless of tip, then he shouldn't be a cook.
cdnmatt, If you see it different, convince me of the opposite!

I even go as far as saying that waiter is a low-qualification job that can be done by almost everyone. (Maybe that's why the wages are so low that tipping comes into play?).
(Mmh, following that logic, one should rather tip his doctor if the treatment was succesful?)

Without tipping, the whole incident (see original post) would not have happened! Tipping has two sides: awarding those who deliver good service or as a way to save money for cheapskates (but the low tip I gave was not to save money, just to express my dissatisfaction).

USA is built upon doing an above satisfactory job and getting rewarded for it. Therefore they are paid much less and "most" service employees work their ass off in hopes that you will reward them in return by giving them a good tip. When I go to restaurants around the world I find service basic and tolerable. There is no incentive to work extra hard. I am all for our system. Work hard and I will give you something extra.
Do you tip doctors and lawyers in Colorado? Do you tip jinks to make him work тАЬextra hardтАЭ, that is deleting legitimate posts? The Japanese have the best solution: Excellent service and no tips.

[cdnmatt]

cdnmatt, If you see it different, convince me of the opposite!

Do I really need to explain the difference between good and bad service to you?

Anyway, sure, no problem. Have you ever went out to eat with a 4yo and 6yo in your group, for example? It can quickly become quite the chore. Now, some waiters / waitresses will just throw the food in front of you, smile, and that's it, because that's all that's required of them. However, some will go out of their way to ensure the kids are having a good time, have coloring paper and crayons, maybe get to choose a toy from some treasure chest, they'll interact with the kids, etc. They deserve a tip.

Same as waiting 30 mins for a beer, versus the waiter being there when you're almost empty, asking if you'd like another. Or ordering a bottle of wine, and when someone's glass is close to being empty, a waiter is right there to fill it up for you, versus you filling it up yourself.

Same as a few places we go in town where we tip nicely. We never have to wait for anything. If we want something, people are immediately on it, and it's there right away. Why? Because we tip well. Otherwise, we'd just get shoved in queue with the rest of the customers, and they'd take care of us when they get around to it. The tip is worth it for us, because when we go for a night out like that, we enjoy being taken care of and worry free. It's really not that hard of a concept to understand.

PS. At some restaurants, the wait staff PAY for the privilege of working there, because the tips are so good.

..At some restaurants, the wait staff PAY for the privilege of working there, because the tips are so good.


Oh shit - now the miserable cunt (aka christianpfc) will be trying to have the rentboys tip HIM

:sign5:

[ceejay]

People working for themselves doesn't always improve service. Many years back I would occasionally go to a very long established Jewish restaurant called Bloom's in Whitechapel (London, England). They had a very unusual system there. The waiters were all self employed. In effect, they bought food at a discount and sold it to customers on their tables at the menu price. You'd think, wouldn't you, that they'd made an effort to keep you happy, and keep you spending. Not a bit of it. They were all as miserable as sin on a Sunday.

[lukylok]

I even go as far as saying that waiter is a low-qualification job that can be done by almost everyone. (Maybe that's why the wages are so low that tipping comes into play?).
(Mmh, following that logic, one should rather tip his doctor if the treatment was succesful?)
.
I beg to disagree. Waiting in a restaurant is a very qualified job if done properly. If I was a restaurateur I would want my customer to be happy and enjoy the cooking provided and not depend on the mood of a waiter motivated - or not - by a tip. The tip system makes everyone lose but the waiter. The restaurateur cannot express fully his qualities and the client suffer of the excessive and silly attentions of the waiter wanting to acquire a tip ( tipping your glass every two minutes, making unnecessary show, ...) as is so often demonstrated in US. Paying poorly for service puts the restaurateur at a disadvantage, as he does not control how is food is served, nor if the customer is satisfied. It is a short view system.

[thonglor55]

Perhaps we should ask Beachlover how he ensures his staff deliver a compelling customer experience?

[christianpfc]

Anyway, sure, no problem. Have you ever went out to eat with a 4yo and 6yo in your group, for example?I don't remember.

It can quickly become quite the chore.I believe you.

Now, some waiters / waitresses will just throw the food in front of you, smile, and that's it, because that's all that's required of them. However, some will go out of their way to ensure the kids are having a good time, have coloring paper and crayons, maybe get to choose a toy from some treasure chest, they'll interact with the kids, etc. They deserve a tip.I agree.


Same as waiting 30 mins for a beer, versus the waiter being there when you're almost empty, asking if you'd like another. Or ordering a bottle of wine, and when someone's glass is close to being empty, a waiter is right there to fill it up for you, versus you filling it up yourself.I expect to be served in a reasonable time. If the restaurant is busy, it might take a bit longer (whereas you will be served faster), but I can see when I enter if it's busy or not. On the other hand, I prefer to fill up my empty glass myself.

(When I'm in a gogo bar and order water, I always have to put the bottle of water under the table or in my bag, so nobody fills my glass up. The problem is, I can't drink 0,5 L of water in every bar if I visit several a night, so I take the half-empty bottles with me and order a new one in the next bar. At home, I pour the contents of two half-empty into one and drink it the following day. I grew up in utmost poverty, so I can't stand wasting food or drink. Just kidding - the last sentence, everything else is true.)


Same as a few places we go in town where we tip nicely. We never have to wait for anything. If we want something, people are immediately on it, and it's there right away. Why? Because we tip well. Otherwise, we'd just get shoved in queue with the rest of the customers, and they'd take care of us when they get around to it. The tip is worth it for us, because when we go for a night out like that, we enjoy being taken care of and worry free. It's really not that hard of a concept to understand.Not sure whether to agree or not. I could turn it around and say you bribe them in advance. But I'm no repeat customer in restaurants or elsewhere where I could get into this situation, so I can't judge. Maybe I would do the same.


Oh shit - now the miserable cunt (aka christianpfc) will be trying to have the rentboys tip HIM
Maybe we can have a civilized conversation without name-calling? (Wrong place?)



It's so easy to judge about people you don't know. Maybe I pop into your bar on my next holiday and say hello to you. (Scared?)
Go ahead and pop in and introduce yourself. Try it and when the doormen throw you out on your ass we shall who laughs last.
You think I dont know you? I have read your insane anally retentive garbage for over an hour already. I know you and as I said, you are mentally ill!
Anyone at all on SGF think this persos does NOT need urgent metal couselling???Anyone?
Isn't this a prerequisite for posting here?

People working for themselves doesn't always improve service. Many years back I would occasionally go to a very long established Jewish restaurant called Bloom's in Whitechapel (London, England). They had a very unusual system there. The waiters were all self employed. In effect, they bought food at a discount and sold it to customers on their tables at the menu price. You'd think, wouldn't you, that they'd made an effort to keep you happy, and keep you spending. Not a bit of it. They were all as miserable as sin on a Sunday.

Jewish restaurant?
"As miserable as Sin on a Saturday", surely


:rolling:

I just wanted to highlight the extent of this man's psychosis:



When I'm in a gogo bar and order water, I always have to put the bottle of water under the table or in my bag, so nobody fills my glass up. The problem is, I can't drink 0,5 L of water in every bar if I visit several a night, so I take the half-empty bottles with me and order a new one in the next bar. At home, I pour the contents of two half-empty into one and drink it the following day

I can only speculate as to what he does if served a bottle of Singha water with the pull-off top - maybe he prepares for an evening out by taking some empty plastic bottles with screw-on tops with him. Then if he is served water in a glass bottle with a pull-off top, he decants the remainder into his pre-prepared plastic bottle and (after almost certainly labelling the bottle with bar name/location/date & time consumed) places it into his handbag with the rest? :dontknow: :dontknow:

:sign5:

Being in need of urgent mental help is a prerequisite to be a member on SGF, why look at our Mexican connisoure! But being fucking daft is a bit much. You are daft. :occasion9: :occasion9:

USA is built upon doing an above satisfactory job and getting rewarded for it. When I was in America the service was lousy but they always had their hand out for a tip.

USA is built upon doing an above satisfactory job and getting rewarded for it. When I was in America the service was lousy but they always had their hand out for a tip.


Hi,

I can't comment as I have never been, but I found the service, people and Country of Canada fantastic everywhere I went, except a little tiny bit rude/arrogant in Quebec in some french speaking places

I loved them all in Toronto and Niagara, Ottaawa etc.

When I was in America the service was lousy but they always had their hand out for a tip.
I doubt that very seriously as I doubt many of the posts on all the subjects you have recently made. I think you talk just to talk.
:occasion9: :occasion9: :occasion9:

[francois]

I can't comment as I have never been, but I found the service, people and Country of Canada fantastic everywhere I went, except a little tiny bit rude/arrogant in Quebec in some french speaking places
.

Kevin, if you don't order in French you never know what you will be served.

[thonglor55]

... except a little tiny bit rude/arrogant in Quebec in some french speaking places ...I'd have thought that was par for the course. The former owner of Telephone Bar, Richard, is a French-Canadian and I well recall a social occasion where a French-Canadian friend of his, supposedly a diplomat, and well capable of speaking English, turned up to a social event where the host was an English speaker, six of the seven other guests were also English speakers, and the asshole insisted on speaking French and only to Richard the entire time. He ignored the host, who paid for the entire event, apart from saying "hullo" (in French) when he arrived.

... except a little tiny bit rude/arrogant in Quebec in some french speaking places ...I'd have thought that was par for the course. The former owner of Telephone Bar, Richard, is a French-Canadian and I well recall a social occasion where a French-Canadian friend of his, supposedly a diplomat, and well capable of speaking English, turned up to a social event where the host was an English speaker, six of the seven other guests were also English speakers, and the asshole insisted on speaking French and only to Richard the entire time. He ignored the host, who paid for the entire event, apart from saying "hullo" (in French) when he arrived.


Hi,

That's what I meant happened to us in Quebec, they constantly waved you away saying they couldn't speak English and you strongly suspected they could, when they even managed to understand my very poor school French mixed with English, but they refused to speak English, and I was told this was commonplace. Even smiling and be over polite didn't help. Small deal, I suppose with the great welcome from the good people in Toronto and surrounding areas.

A French friend of mine later told me not to worry about it or give it a second thought, as those in Quebec could not speak French either!!!.....

I was amazd at the overall cleanliness of Canadian cities,great shopping, food, prices and service everywhere. I would go visit there anytime I could or if I was asked.

[christianpfc]

I just wanted to highlight the extent of this man's psychosis:



When I'm in a gogo bar and order water, I always have to put the bottle of water under the table or in my bag, so nobody fills my glass up. The problem is, I can't drink 0,5 L of water in every bar if I visit several a night, so I take the half-empty bottles with me and order a new one in the next bar. At home, I pour the contents of two half-empty into one and drink it the following day

I can only speculate as to what he does if served a bottle of Singha water with the pull-off top - maybe he prepares for an evening out by taking some empty plastic bottles with screw-on tops with him. Then if he is served water in a glass bottle with a pull-off top, he decants the remainder into his pre-prepared plastic bottle and (after almost certainly labelling the bottle with bar name/location/date & time consumed) places it into his handbag with the rest? :dontknow: :dontknow:

:sign5:

Every one has his little problems. This is mine, it sounds retarded, but it's harmless. And what problem do you have? Now you know how to recognize me when I'm in Thailand, I bet there are not many farangs with bags full of half-empty water bottles.

Now you know how to recognize me when I'm in Thailand, I bet there are not many farangs with bags full of half-empty water bottles.

Christianpfc I dare say you are 100% correct in that.

Whether I would be looking out for such a person is another matter dear

:rolling: :rolling:

[netrix]

Now you know how to recognize me when I'm in Thailand, I bet there are not many farangs with bags full of half-empty water bottles.

Christianpfc I dare say you are 100% correct in that.

Whether I would be looking out for such a person is another matter dear

:rolling: :rolling:

:notworthy:

[cdnmatt]

That's what I meant happened to us in Quebec, they constantly waved you away saying they couldn't speak English and you strongly suspected they could

Don't take it to personally. Lots of French-Canadians refuse to accept Quebec as part of Canada, and will only view Quebec as a sovereign nation, so get fucked if you think they're speaking English. That's Canada's filthy language, not Quebec's beautiful language of French, which people from France can't even understand. :)

Quebec is like our dysfunctional brother. Just have to ignore him at times, and give him a little extra leeway when he acts up.

Or where in Quebec did you go? In general, Quebec City has more separatists than Montreal, so they're a bit more snobbish towards English speaking people. If you go downtown Montreal though (eg. St. Catherine's Street), it's generally more liberal and easy going, so it shouldn't be difficult to find people willing to speak English with you. At least that's been my experiences.

[Beachlover]

I just wanted to highlight the extent of this man's psychosis:

When I'm in a gogo bar and order water, I always have to put the bottle of water under the table or in my bag, so nobody fills my glass up. The problem is, I can't drink 0,5 L of water in every bar if I visit several a night, so I take the half-empty bottles with me and order a new one in the next bar. At home, I pour the contents of two half-empty into one and drink it the following day
Christian... I bet you have lots of habits like this. Can you write us a list of them? I'm serious. I just PISSED myself laughing at this! :rolling:


I bet there are not many farangs with bags full of half-empty water bottles.
This kills me! :rolling:


I can't see how waiters can make a meal more enjoyable. They bring your food and your drink. That's their job.
No, that's what a ROBOT does! A waiter's performance is much more subjective and less measurable. That's why you have a discretionary incentive system.


The cook cooks it, because it's his job. If he has no pride in cooking a good meal for every customer, regardless of tip, then he shouldn't be a cook.... restaurants where you are served by an automat (never been to one, just know from the internet).... My conclusion: A world without tipping, where everyone is payed a decent wage, would be much simpler. And there is no disappointment by low or no tips.
Christian... You're a scientist of some sort right? Dig up some research on the psychology of motivation and internal drive/external incentive.


(Mmh, following that logic, one should rather tip his doctor if the treatment was succesful?)
I don't know much about R&D but most corporate professionals I know are employed on a salary/bonus package. The bonus is tied to various measures of performance. Some are at the management's discretion.

Professionals like doctors, researchers and designers and lawyers may also have other incentives. Success and good performance leads to a greater reputation/profile and recognition. It usually leads to more money too. Maybe you can relate this.

[christianpfc]

Christian... I bet you have lots of habits like this. Can you write us a list of them? I'm serious. I just PISSED myself laughing at this! :rolling:

Well, how about this one: In Germany you can buy some kind of spatula with a rubber blade that is designed to scratch out the last bit of contents of marmelade/jam jars. Of course I have one, and I use it regularly (do you want a photo of a scratched-out jar?) I goes without saying that I lick the lid of yoghurt cubs and scratch them out with a spoon so there is nothing left.

Apart from oranges and bananas, I don't peel fruit. I eat kiwis with the hull, I just cut out the ends and wash it. The hull is bitter, that's why I don't chew it, just swallow. A great source of fibre.

I wash my hand on average 20 times on a workday, but I change my socks only three times a week.

And how about you? What problems do you have (apart from excessive posting)?


Christian... You're a scientist of some sort right?
You got it!

[Beachlover]

Alright, that's great but we need something that really exceeds your bottled water neurosis. :rolling:


And how about you? What problems do you have
Ok, I'll confess. I hate clutter. Can't have more than six items on my desk in the office. Everyone else in the office is the opposite... :drv:

I hate using the same bath towel more than once so at the end of the week I have 20+ towels to wash. :bounce:

... at the end of the week I have 20+ towels to wash. :bounce:

20+ sanitary towels?

You do have a problem dear.

Have you considered tampons?

:rolling:

[christianpfc]

It seems my offs of gogo-boys in Pattaya are cursed (no problems with gogo or host in Bkk or host in PTY). The same thing almost happened again. But I was able to avert a similar disaster.

Thursday, 04.08.2011. I enter Lucky Seven and order a drink. None of the boys appeals to me, but there is someone else around whose function was not clear to me. He seemed to be a waiter (and turned out to be one), but was hanging around with a customer and other boys. We exchange a few smiles, finally he cheers to me and invites me to his table. We have a chat, I buy him a drink and ask for his name and bingo, it turns out that he was the cute waiter at New Dynamite (now closed) as I had assumed. On my previous holiday, I even went to New Dynamite a second time for him (usually I visit bars only once per holiday), unfortunately he was not there on my second visit. I ask if he wants to go with me, pay the off-fee and we leave. We walk back to Howards Guesthouse and have a little snack on the way. I practise my Thai. тАЬWhy do you learn Thai? Not good!тАЭ The only negative response I got so far for learning Thai. On the way it turns out that he is of the type I canтАЩt have around me for longtime (a few boys are too talkative, too much drama or something else so I have to leave them after a few hours), but this is no hindrance to sex.

In my room. тАЬI take a shower.тАЭ тАЬNo.тАЭ тАЬDo you want to take a shower?тАЭ тАЬNoтАЭ тАЬCan we shower together?тАЭ тАЬNo.тАЭ Strange, never happened to me that a boy refused to shower. But as I like to slip my hands under shirts and to undress boys, this is no problem for me. So we proceed. He switches off the light in the room and in my bathroom. I canтАЩt have sex in the dark, so I go via light in bathroom with open bathroomdor to fully lit. We continue, suddenly he goes under the cover and declares: тАЬI sleep now!тАЭ. After some cuddling, I ask him if he can wear underwear I provide. Reluctantly, he dresses in the underwear. тАЬCan you give me a handjob while I touch you?тАЭ тАЬNo, you can watch me and do yourself.тАЭ (DonтАЩt remember what happend in the next few minutes, but not of importance.) тАЬCan we have sex now?тАЭ тАЬI not have aarom (р╕нр╕▓р╕гр╕бр╕Ур╣М).тА Э (Means he is not horny. I saw this word the first time on that very day when I was scrolling through a language guide for lovers!) тАЬWhy did you go with me?тАЭ тАЬBecause I thought you are cute.тАЭ тАЬCan we have sex tomorrow?тАЭ тАЬI donтАЩt know.тАЭ This answer and the experience from my original post, that problems donтАЩt disappear if you sleep over them, led to: тАЬI think itтАЩs better you go home now.тАЭ тАЬOk.тАЭ He dresses and asks: тАЬCan you give me a tip?тАЭ тАЬWhy do you want at tip? We didnтАЩt have sex.тАЭ тАЬYou pay for my time. Can you give me 500 Baht?тАЭ There we go! I always thought I pay for sex! If I have a mechanic in my house to fix a problem, I pay him for fixing the problem, not for the time he spends trying to fix the problem if he is not successful. I give him the money and say goodbye. I think he deserves nothing, but I donтАЩt want to get a bad reputation, for me itтАЩs not worth arguing about 500 Baht, I hope to see him again (IтАЩm so picky, I have to hold every cute boy I find because there are so few of them). In this case, I donтАЩt feel entitled to claim the off fee back because I didnтАЩt discuss what I want in the bar.

Fortunately, I had a drink with a cute hostboy in Sunee earlier this evening, so I went there again and took him overnight.

Just bad luck or is it me who creates these problems? There are no problems with most boys I meet and they are happy to meet me again. My mistakes in this case: switching on the light if he wants to have sex in the dark, asking him to wear underwear he doesnтАЩt like, continue foreplay when he wants to sleep. But hey, I payed the off fee and he agreed to go with me about an hour earlier!

I even think of meeting him again on my next holiday because he is very cute, doesnтАЩt smoke cigarettes, doesnтАЩt have tattoos, we might find a time when he is horny and I am horny and some underwear he likes and I like, the only problem that remains is the light: I canтАЩt have sex in the dark.

So I need a form in Thai were the boy has to tick yes or no to the following questions:

Can you take a shower in my bathroom? (not important)
Can we have sex with lights on? (very important)
Can you wear underwear I provide?
Do you smoke cigarettes, if yes can you abstain from smoking in my presence?
Can you give me a handjob?
Can I touch your body?
Can I take pictures of you (in underwear)? (not important)
Can you stay overnight (long time)? (I happened several times that a boy agreed to long time in the bar and then found reasons to leave after sex.)
(If you think I missed: Can I top you? тАУ I didnтАЩt, it has no importance to me.)

(And I need a formula how to reduce the tip if a boy ticks yes and doesnтАЩt deliver.)

Christian, yes, your first mistake was not discussing some basic rules with him prior to offing him. things you want or dont want.
In this case your second mistake was not to throw him out of the room with no tip. It was obvious from the beginning that it just was not going to work through no fault of your own. His attitude sucked and he deserved nothing. Big deal if he said anything bad to anyone which he would not have. You should have said nevermind and when he "ASKED IF HE COULD HAVE A TIP" in this case the answer should have been a firm and positive NO and not to ask why he wanted a tip. The answer should have been NO. He knew why.
Your third mistake is yet to come and that is to even consider taking him off again.

Well, Christian, maybe I'm just a big softy, but in my view you don't need any of these things you mention - you just need to keep an open mind, have a sense of humour, realise that things don't always go according to plan, and handle the situation so that you can exit with your head held high and move on to the next experience.

Guess what - you did all that.

Congratulations!

:occasion9:

Well, Christian, maybe I'm just a big softy, but in my view you don't need any of these things you mention - you just need to keep an open mind, have a sense of humour, realise that things don't always go according to plan, and handle the situation so that you can exit with your head held high and move on to the next experience.

Guess what - you did all that.

Congratulations!

:occasion9:


I AGREE,

I WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME BUT i WOULD ALSO HAVE LET THE BAR AND FRIENDS OF MINE KNOW ABOUT HIS BEHAVIOUR. HE'S A IN THE SERVICE BUSINESS, IF HE CAN'T DO IT/HACK IT, HE SHOULDN'T BE IN IT. THAT'S TWO DAYS PAY IF HE WERE A MANUAL WORKER! and he couldn't even do the manual....................!.... :love4:

[dab69]

the only problem that remains is the light: I canтАЩt have sex in the dark.


night vision goggles?
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/72580180nightvisionfinal2.jpg


So I need a form in Thai were the boy has to tick yes or no to the following questions:

р╕Др╕╕р╕Ур╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕� ��р╕гр╕Цр╣Гр╕Кр╣Йр╣Ар╕� �р╕ер╕▓р╕нр╕▓р╕Ър╕Щр╣ Йр╕│р╣Гр╕Щр╕лр╣Йр╕нр╕ Зр╕Щр╣Йр╕│р╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕ Йр╕▒р╕Щр╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕нр╕ вр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╣Др╕г (р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕кр╕│р╕Др╕� ��р╕Н)
р╣Ар╕гр╕▓р╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕� ��р╕гр╕Цр╕бр╕╡р╣Ар╕Юр╕ ир╕кр╕▒р╕бр╕Юр╕▒р╕Щр� �Шр╣Мр╕Бр╕▒р╕Ър╣Др╕Яр� �лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╣Др╕бр╣И (р╕кр╕│р╕Др╕▒р╕Нр╕бр╕ ▓р╕Б)
р╕Др╕╕р╕Ур╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕� ��р╕гр╕Цр╕кр╕зр╕бр╣Гр╕� �р╣Ир╕Бр╕▓р╕Зр╣Ар╕Бр╕� �р╕Ьр╕бр╣Гр╕лр╣Й?
р╕Др╕╕р╕Ур╕кр╕╣р╕Ър╕� �р╕╕р╕лр╕гр╕╡р╣Ир╕Цр╣ Йр╕▓р╣Гр╕Кр╣Ир╕Др╕╕р� �Ур╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕▓р╕гр╕Цр� ��лр╕ер╕╡р╕Бр╣Ар╕ер╕╡р ╣Ир╕вр╕Зр╕Ир╕▓р╕Бр╕Бр ╕▓р╕гр╕кр╕╣р╕Ър╕Ър╕╕ р╕лр╕гр╕╡р╣Ир╣Гр╕Щр╕Ч р╕╡р╣Ир╕Чр╕╡р╣Ир╕бр╕� ��р╕Йр╕▒р╕Щр╣Др╕Фр╣Йр╕ лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╣Др╕бр╣И
р╕Др╕╕р╕Ур╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕� ��р╕гр╕Цр╣Гр╕лр╣Йр╕Йр╕� ��р╕Щ handjob р╕лр╕гр╕╖р╕нр╣Др╕бр╣И ?
р╕Йр╕▒р╕Щр╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕� ��р╕гр╕Цр╕кр╕▒р╕бр╕Ьр╕ ▒р╕кр╕гр╣Ир╕▓р╕Зр╕Бр� �▓р╕вр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Др╕╕р� ��У?
р╕Йр╕▒р╕Щр╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕� ��р╕гр╕Цр╣Гр╕Кр╣Йр╕ар╕� ��р╕Юр╕Вр╕нр╕Зр╕Др╕╕р╕ У (р╣Гр╕Щр╕Кр╕╕р╕Фр╕Кр╕� ��р╣Йр╕Щр╣Гр╕Щ)? (р╣Др╕бр╣Ир╕кр╕│р╕Др╕� ��р╕Н)
р╕Др╕╕р╕Ур╕кр╕▓р╕бр╕� ��р╕гр╕Цр╕Юр╕▒р╕Бр╕Др╣ Йр╕▓р╕Зр╕Др╕╖р╕Щ (р╕Щр╕▓р╕Щ)?

[Beachlover]

Christianpfc... Good progress haha.

Scottish is right. Loosen up and go with the flow. Better yet, you said you were only 31. So I know you confessed to being a robot. But surely, you'd be better off avoiding the commercial sex scene and pursuing your one-nighters or relationships in a more natural social setting?

Taking a prostitute creates a very artificial level of interaction. A prostitute is less likely to give you the real feedback you need to hone your own natural charm, social skills and seductive abilities. Walking into a gogo bar and picking a boy off the stage isn't how things work in real life. It might satisfy some immediate sexual urges but it'll rarely lead to something truly satisfying or fulfilling (though it's not impossible).

Think further ahead. Go out and use your own genuine charm and social skills to hook up with other gay guys instead of paying for sex.

Oh Beachlover, you are such a bitch. Christian? The love of your life is waiting in my go go boy bar. Hurry up! Keep offing them and buying them drinks until you figure out which one he is. :sign5:
:tif:

[thonglor55]

Christianpfc... Good progress haha. {blah blah blah, bore, bore bore}Words of supposed wisdom from someone who had admitted to having a prostitute once and forever boasting about how much free sex he gets in Thailand. But his lack of experience (always supposing any word he writes is true) has never stopped him making judgments about other people and assumptions about their personas, life experiences, habits, preferences, behaviors. He's such a genius. What was it? Self-made millionaire at 15 or something?

[lonelywombat]

Or where in Quebec did you go? In general, Quebec City has more separatists than Montreal, so they're a bit more snobbish towards English speaking people. If you go downtown Montreal though (eg. St. Catherine's Street), it's generally more liberal and easy going, so it shouldn't be difficult to find people willing to speak English with you. At least that's been my experiences.

Actually I stayed in "rue Sainte-Catherine Est" and I have to say it was easier in France than some places in Montreal to chat, order a meal, ask directions.. I only had schoolboy french to fall back on. It worked in Paris.

No SG I did not have a schoolboy with. Dont get excited.

[Beachlover]

Oh Beachlover, you are such a bitch. Christian? The love of your life is waiting in my go go boy bar. Hurry up! Keep offing them and buying them drinks until you figure out which one he is. :sign5:
ROFL... You dodgy bastard! :rolling: