Is this the stupidest farang in Thailand or what?

[CoffeeBreak]

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/view-story.php?sid=389

- I guess we are meant to sympathise with this guy but I can't help thinking he brings much of it on himself.

[cdnmatt]

As the old saying goes, never buy anything in Thailand that you're not willing to walk away from. Same goes for Thai bank accounts, which is why the bulk of my money stays in Hong Kong. Same goes with a good friend of mine. He keeps the bulk of his money in Australia, then transfers to his Thai bank every couple weeks.

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/view-story.php?sid=389

- I guess we are meant to sympathise with this guy but I can't help thinking he brings much of it on himself.

Andrew Drummond?

I agree.

:laughing3:

Andrew Drummond was only the writer here, I believe not the one that was the subject.
As far as being roped in as badly as this guy was, well, we all have that possibility to allow us to fall for scams. He believed his lawyer, the people that were involved. Of course he should have been checking that the deposits were being made, but he is just another falang that fell for an elaborate Thai scam that should tell us to keep our eyes open and our dicks in our pants!

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/view-story.php?sid=389

- I guess we are meant to sympathise with this guy but I can't help thinking he brings much of it on himself.


Hi,

People tend to be very judgemental and clever when it happens to others but not so when it happens to them.

This was a respectable businessman who believed his lawyers and public officials like many unwary but upstanding citizens from developed Countries would. The scammers,often city officials,lawyers and ' nice' policemen are plausible and amicable with their nice offices and shiny uniforms giving an air of respectability to it all.

Many have been taken in by this and with co operative and greedy officials, it happens all too often.

I hope she and ALL those responsible go to jail and he gets all his property back, but IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN!.....not in that system.

[thonglor55]

As the old saying goes, never buy anything in Thailand that you're not willing to walk away from.Including boyfriends.

Hi,

People tend to be very judgemental and clever when it happens to others but not so when it happens to them.

This was a respectable businessman who believed his lawyers and public officials like many unwary but upstanding citizens from developed Countries would. The scammers,often city officials,lawyers and ' nice' policemen are plausible and amicable with their nice offices and shiny uniforms giving an air of respectability to it all.

Many have been taken in by this and with co operative and greedy officials, it happens all too often.

I hope she and ALL those responsible go to jail and he gets all his property back, but IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN!.....not in that system.


I couldn't agree more Kevin.

As the old saying goes, never buy anything in Thailand that you're not willing to walk away from.Including boyfriends.


Good point!................ :evil4:.......................................Thon glor55!

[Beachlover]

This was a respectable businessman who believed his lawyers and public officials like many unwary but upstanding citizens from developed Countries would. The scammers,often city officials,lawyers and ' nice' policemen are plausible and amicable with their nice offices and shiny uniforms giving an air of respectability to it all.

Many have been taken in by this and with co operative and greedy officials, it happens all too often.
I agree... he made some bad mistakes. But the scam was elaborate and had a lot of depth to it because the gain was high enough to justify the investment made by those who scammed him.

I think you need to be cautious and always have an "out" in any country where the legal/justice system isn't entirely trustworthy.


Andrew Drummond?
What's wrong with Drummond? So he writes for tabloids... I've never read anything from him, which I disagree with.

What's wrong with Drummond? So he writes for tabloids... I've never read anything from him, which I disagree with.

I was under the impression that it was only 'those' that Andrew Drummond wrote about that disliked him. He got 10 out of 10 from me when he publicly wrote and brought the going on's in B.Town to light.

The trouble is that most people's opinion on the events to which you refer Combat, is almost entirely a result of Mr D's outpourings.
I have underlined "most" because I have formed the impression that you know rather more, as do I.

There simply must be more to it than he or either of us (or even KQ!) knows - it beggars belief otherwise.

I have never known any journalist to be 100% accurate. I know many who lie every day for a living. Most are somewhere between the two extremes - what they don't know, they invent.

Blind faith is very touching, but I prefer to retain a smidgin of scepticism in most cases.

If I wanted to be totally gullible I would read the Daily Mail, the News of the World, or the Scotsman

Oh, wait...

:laughing3: :laughing3:

The trouble is that most people's opinion on the events to which you refer Combat, is almost entirely a result of Mr D's outpourings.
I have underlined "most" because I have formed the impression that you know rather more, as do I.

There simply must be more to it than he or either of us (or even KQ!) knows - it beggars belief otherwise.

I have never known any journalist to be 100% accurate. I know many who lie every day for a living. Most are somewhere between the two extremes - what they don't know, they invent.

Blind faith is very touching, but I prefer to retain a smidgin of scepticism in most cases.

If I wanted to be totally gullible I would read the Daily Mail, the News of the World, or the Scotsman

Oh, wait...

:laughing3: :laughing3:


Scotty,

I know chapter and verse of what occurred and why, and who did what, but no point me bringing it up on here anymore as some just don't want to see, listen or care!

A bit like a recent thread on here that won't die.

You can provide evidence and proof but some will look you straight in the eyes with a blank expression and say and do the opposite to all what is before them... :dontknow:

Welcome to the Thai justice system.... :sunny: and they know it full well. For change to occur against corruption,you must have enough people working within that system to want it and they don't!

[Beachlover]

The trouble is that most people's opinion on the events to which you refer Combat, is almost entirely a result of Mr D's outpourings.
How is this a failing on Andrew Drummond's part?

Has he said anything, which you will specifically claim is inaccurate? Or are you just pointing out a vague possibility, which could be applied to any other journalist? It's worth mentioning that Drummond probably had to justify his writing and face more scrutiny than is usual for most journalists' work since he was forced to defend it in court.

The trouble is that most people's opinion on the events to which you refer Combat, is almost entirely a result of Mr D's outpourings.
How is this a failing on Andrew Drummond's part?

Has he said anything, which you will specifically claim is inaccurate? Or are you just pointing out a vague possibility, which could be applied to any other journalist? It's worth mentioning that Drummond probably had to justify his writing and face more scrutiny than is usual for most journalists' work since he was forced to defend it in court.

Beachy,

I don't know what Scotty meant, I will wait for his response, however I like and agree your post and find it accurate regards Andrew Drummond.

He had more scrutiny because of obscure Thai libel laws than he would face in the West just because of the wording of the law, not what he wrote which was proven.

I don't know what Scotty meant, I will wait for his response, however I like and agree your post and find it accurate regards Andrew Drummond.
He had more scrutiny because of obscure Thai libel laws than he would face in the West just because of the wording of the law, not what he wrote which was proven.

What ever Scotty or anyone else thinks about Andrew Drummond he won his libel case. He is also a respected journalist in many parts of the world including Sky News which is fetted as being one of the better news channels on air. I'm beginning to wonder if Scotty might be closer to someone than he might fess to tell. Let's face it after all that has been written, and having KQ who was personnally involved and hurt alive to tell his story with proof, that it doesn't take much to lean the 'right' way.

For clarity - I am just speaking generally - and I am just speaking from my own perspective which I appreciate may not be shared.

The point I am making is very basic - no matter the situation, where more than one person is involved, no single party can know the full picture because no single party can have been in all the right places at all the right times.

Even if you are one of the parties involved , then you don't know for sure what the other party did or thought or said. You might think you have a bloody good idea and you might have evidence that points to it (and you may even be right) but very rarely is there 100% certainty

If you are a third party many times removed (myself or 99.9% of the SGT members) then it is impossible that you know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but. The chances are that you have heard predominantly one side of the story and in many cases the other party will not engage or you choose not to engage with them and you will never hear their side of the story.

Now, in the case we are discussing, I have heard only one side and I have heard it from the horse's mouth as it were. The horse is called KQ. I believe, on the basis of what I have heard that the version I have is the correct one. I have said so many times. On the basis of that I have avoided hearing the other side and have no wish to do so.
But am I willing to stake my life on it?
No.
That is no reflection on the source - simply that my standard of proof requires corroberation and I haven't seen any and I have opted out of possibly hearing any counter-argument. I think most people on SGT are in the same position: they have formed an opinion purely on what they have heard on the grapevine or read from AD, and AD has presented what he wants us to hear.

Yes, AD was acquitted of libel - does that mean that he was necessarily telling the truth?
No - these are two quite different things.
Relying on decisions delivered in Court is fraught with danger. Basically, most of the time the testimony is a tissue of lies from both sides. One side is lying to get off with it and the other side usually lies by embellishing the facts in order to see the other party lose the case. The lawyers are all professional liars, and as for any Police officers involved they will swear black is white if it suits them. Further, there is always the possibility of bribery and corruption. Add to that the fact that journalists lie day and night and routinely sex up their stories (especially where they are selling to a certain section of the press) and I really don't think it adds up to a very safe basis on which to form a rational opinion. That is why, PERSONALLY, I have always refused to go on a jury (well, found an excuse actually, as refusing would see ME in the dock!)

Do I think AD is any less reliable than another journalist, no - they are all salesmen at the end of the day and will accentuate what they see as the positives of their story and downplay or omit the negatives. I would not trust any journalist as far as I could throw him on any matter where there is any doubt.

But as I say, that's just me - I know which side I think is telling the truth, I know which I think is lying, but I sure as hell am not going to take advice on it from a man with a story to sell.

:occasion9:

Hi,

As I have said I am not going to trot it all out again, your post in all is fair, balanced and non controversial apart from the area regards the Court. You may be talking about western courts and I think you are.

The Court in Thailand, there is no jury at all and the judge depending how he/she is minded or who got to them first behind closed doors either assists the prosecutor or the defence and the only things on record is what ther judge chooses to record.

The judges in these Courts really believe they are SUPERIOR beings to mere mortals and do not take crticism at all and can be prone to outbursts, if they feel at all that their authority is being quesioned.

This is completely the opposite to how I have seen senior high court judges in the UK behave during cases. A judge will,in the UK, consult a law book or take advice on precedent. NONE of this occurs in the provincial courts of Thailand.

He/She in Thai Court is therefore literally judge,jury and executioner.

[bao-bao]

Even if you are one of the parties involved , then you don't know for sure what the other party did or thought or said. You might think you have a bloody good idea and you might have evidence that points to it (and you may even be right) but very rarely is there 100% certainty
Especially on an online forum. That holds true for this and for a couple of other recent tempests in teapots here.

[quote="scottish-guy":2ctlsllp]Even if you are one of the parties involved , then you don't know for sure what the other party did or thought or said. You might think you have a bloody good idea and you might have evidence that points to it (and you may even be right) but very rarely is there 100% certainty
Especially on an online forum. That holds true for this and for a couple of other recent tempests in teapots here.[/quote:2ctlsllp]

Cheers guys,

I agree with both your posts.

[zinzone]

SG you really do talk a load of rhubarb. All this crap about not being 100% sure so no one can know anything or whatever.You really should avoid talking in riddles.Example: OJ Simpson was declared not guilty but the whole world is aware he was as guilty as effing hell. Conversely- and lets have some direct and plain speaking -KQ as most of us know was set and framed and everyone with any sense can identify the culprits.
What puzzles me is why are these guilty men are still given "face" and lauded by sections of our community?

[thonglor55]

What puzzles me is why are these guilty men are still given "face" and lauded by sections of our community?Perhaps it's because their "guilt" is not as self-evident as you believe. After all, there are still people who believe in a god or deny evolution (because "it's only a theory"). Jury trials are decided on the basis of "beyond reasonable doubt" not, as you seem to think, "the balance of probability". Why do members of the Mafia honor their godfathers when everyone "knows" that their activties are criminal? May I suggest your understanding of human nature is overly simplistic (not that that's at all unusual, as can be seen in almost every thread in this Forum, one way or another)?

What puzzles me is why are these guilty men are still given "face" and lauded by sections of our community?Perhaps it's because their "guilt" is not as self-evident as you believe. After all, there are still people who believe in a god or deny evolution (because "it's only a theory"). Jury trials are decided on the basis of "beyond reasonable doubt" not, as you seem to think, "the balance of probability". Why do members of the Mafia honor their godfathers when everyone "knows" that their activties are criminal? May I suggest your understanding of human nature is overly simplistic (not that that's at all unusual, as can be seen in almost every thread in this Forum, one way or another)?


The answer Zinzone is that many people are attracted by money, power, fame, or notoriety - and are prepared to overlook all the negatives for what they percieve to be the advantages of knowing such people.

Otherwise, why did Pattaya pooves clamour for YEARS to be in the company and palatial home of a (now deceased) prominent UK ex-pat who fled his own country after being convicted on charges of child-pornography? And on his death, posted nauseating tributes to him on various message boards?

Or is that more "rhubarb"?

:occasion9:

What puzzles me is why are these guilty men are still given "face" and lauded by sections of our community?Perhaps it's because their "guilt" is not as self-evident as you believe. After all, there are still people who believe in a god or deny evolution (because "it's only a theory"). Jury trials are decided on the basis of "beyond reasonable doubt" not, as you seem to think, "the balance of probability". Why do members of the Mafia honor their godfathers when everyone "knows" that their activties are criminal? May I suggest your understanding of human nature is overly simplistic (not that that's at all unusual, as can be seen in almost every thread in this Forum, one way or another)?


Hi zinzone,

Because many of Pattaya's gays are two faced obsequious toadying scumbags who care more about a free meal at Bruno's, kissing arse,smelling perfume and admiring each others jewellery, than the truth and prefer to swap make up tips and roll out tired old cliches, than give any thought to real issues, you know.............. airheads,oxygen thieves!

Many of the visiting gays are not fooled, as many are sharp and shrewd and a lot are in business but prefer not to get involved as they are on holiday.

Thonglor55,

I wish there had been a jury trial but they don't exist in Thailand, as the authorities believe the public are too stupid to analyse and come up with a verdict, they equally believe the peasants shouldn't have or deserve a vote in government, that's why they keep having military coups when the verdict goes against them.

They say that's why Jesus wasn't born there, they couldn't find three wise men let alone a virgin.

Q. Why haven't they had democratic elections in Thailand? A. Because they'll lose!................. :evil4:

[thonglor55]

I wish there had been a jury trial but they don't exist in ThailandI'm aware of that; I was referring to zinzone's commentary on the OJ Simpson trial.

Because many of Pattaya's gays are two faced obsequious toadying scumbags who care more about a free meal at Bruno's, kissing arse,smelling perfume and admiring each others jewellery, than the truth and prefer to swap make up tips and roll out tired old cliches, than give any thought to real issues, you know.............. airheads,oxygen thieves!

Well put Kevin and oh so true. One creep that perfectly fits the bill is LMTU, who endlessly lauded those possibly (sic) responsible like there was no tomorrow when you were unjustly incarcerated. Then when you were again a free man and posting again he was back down on his knees trying to kiss your arse.

[Beachlover]

One creep that perfectly fits the bill is LMTU... back down on his knees trying to kiss your arse.
I'm sure it's no hardship for LMTU. He's used to being on his knees in public toilets! Kevin, you don't want those disgusting, wrinkled lips anywhere near your arse!

[thonglor55]

He's used to being on his knees in public toilets!More memories of the encounter that led to your ONS with homintern?

One creep that perfectly fits the bill is LMTU... back down on his knees trying to kiss your arse.
I'm sure it's no hardship for LMTU. He's used to being on his knees in public toilets! Kevin, you don't want those disgusting, wrinkled lips anywhere near your arse!


Hi guys,

It'll be a sad day, if what you say is true, when I lose sleep over comments from LMTU.