Reviving Boyztown. What does it take

[lonelywombat]

The thread is boyztown dying or whatever has become a pissing contest for 5 posters, and those who want to continue to watch that childish nonsense, can continue on that thread.
I know several straight boys who are going at the end of April and their reports from str8 forums, things are alive and well in pattaya.

The big disappointment to me is the way that Cafe Royale has gone downhill since the two Ians and Robbie passed away. Can they get their act together and bring some momentum back. Is their restaurant and show bar working?

I often hear that Copa second show is almost empty. About 2 years ago they tried earlier shows, 930,10,30. I am not sure if the performers are paid per show or by the month, but maybe some lateral thinking to how things are done could bring results.

There seems to be a very strong sentiment against Madam Jim and supporting show members. Most comments have been old and tired, and that does include the go go boys.


There has been a lot of knocking . can we get some posiive comments.




Boys Town will never change. They dont want to change.
They think the public come to Thailand to see a lot of lady boys lype singing old sixties numbers.
Then once in a while the owners put a frock on and think there the new Dame Edna Everage. Having there friends on the front row, the white sock parade
saying how wonderful they are.

PLEASE LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS, LOWER YOUR PRICES AND STOP PUTTING FROCKS ON. :snorting: :snorting: :snorting:

Put a all new mens like chipendale show on(With a mixture of men and Boys). With upto date numbers and something more than all lady boys prancing around in knee length boots thinking that the gay trade gets turned on by some sickos dream. You dont need cock shows, leave something to the imagination.
There are so many new ideas out there if you know where to look.
Offer something new and you might get old and new customers back. :alc:

-I agree with Marigar.

Most gay customers go to the boy bars to see sexy males and not to see Katoeys or to see males who are more like women than men.
In my opinion nothing wrong with a fem boy but everything wrong with a Dame Edna Everage!
Personally, I dont like Katoy shows either, but the idea that there are 6 boys around here, that are " like Chippendales" wont fly. Especially in low season.
It is a wonderful idea and certainly something to hope for, but the reality is, walk around and tell me where a few of them are? Even if we imported them from Bangkok, the reality (again) is that they will not stay more than a few days or week because we cant pay them enough in comparison to what they earn in Bankok. I go to BKK this week I will look around for some boys like this to come down for alternate weekends or something similar and an :alc: nnounce special shows here on Sawatdee.
Again, great idea.

I know several straight boys who are going at the end of April and their reports from str8 forums, things are alive and well in pattaya.

The big disappointment to me is the way that Cafe Royale has gone downhill since the two Ians and Robbie passed away. Can they get their act together and bring some momentum back. Is their restaurant and show bar working?

As I just said in another thread, Cafe Royale blew it when they renovated, spent a fortune and then brought back the same exact shows that they have had for years! That was the time to change everything. Not sure they can get it together change the acts and bring back people to see again that they have put on a new face. Not sure the management wants to listen. After all the night manager that they hired recently is one of the old dragsters and she will never change nor bring change to Cafe Royale. She can't even change anything but the front sign in front of her bar! She doesnt even fix the step in front of her bar so that people wont fall. Surrounds you with 15 fat ladyboys of ladyboys. Not a handsome MAN amongst them. My opinion. :dontknow:

[stevehadders]

You ask for positive comments, great it is a fair way forward.... but not so sure about your own comments! "Pattaya Alive and Well?" Actually, this is true in terms of Russian visitor numbers- but all hotels are suffering with low occupancy if you look at the Industry.
Fewer people, less $ largely, but the bars that are innovative and serve the customer well will survive. For me Happy Place agreat positive example

[arsenal]

Most people, even in its 'heyday' probably had two or three favourite bars in Boyztown and ventured into the others only very ocassionally. In December there was Happy Place. X-Boys and Toy Boys that I went into regularly and can't remember going to any of the others. Those three were as good as any of the others have been in the past being full of fun, nice boys and pleasant management.

[lonelywombat]

Years ago when I used to have early evening drinks , in Serene, My lLfe or Panorama the thai food carts used to set up shop where Madam Jim parkes her truck and the rest of the space packed with bikes.

I appreciate that Ambience,Cafe Royale and even Street life would not be happy if they were to return, but watching the bar boys eating from these stalls was always an eye candy moment, and at times I have had a snack from them as well. Later in the evening I would usually buy an off a snack from these stalls and he either ate there or with me in My Way or Serene. I think Panorama did not allow.

But the street is empty and folorn. Maybe the activity and the availabliity of Thai snacks for beer bar patrons and their boys is a way to make things busier. These stands would not seriously be considered as competition for the 3 restaurants. Anything that brings and keeps more people in soi 3 has to be looked at.

[homeseeker]

Question: what does it take to revive boystown?

Answer: providing a level of entertainment which will persuade potential customers to want to go to the place on a regular basis. An example that might attract the customers is having a generous supply of very attractive good in bed boys who are unavailable anywhere else except in BT.

[cdnmatt]

But the street is empty and folorn. Maybe the activity and the availabliity of Thai snacks for beer bar patrons and their boys is a way to make things busier.

Yeah, that would pretty much kill it for me. One of the things I love about Thailand is how much life there is on the streets -- everywhere. Where in Canada, it's somewhat like living in a mall. Just a bunch of consumers going from point A to point B.

[witchhunt]

to be frank I dont think cafe royal has a business plan and if they do they need to start something soon.

they did have the dinner shows and there is enough of the elderly drag shows in boystown. my suggestion is to open a boy cabaret , just dancing boys or boys that can mime a male singer, package it with a dinner show including wine to be something different. it is something that can be sold to straight tourists as well as gays

there are a lot of dance captains around that have worked at Copa, WWB, wonderland in sunee, venue, who could put together some class acts not necessary with huge expense for costumes, the accent on attractive boys that can dance. skimpy costumes but not nude, a little bit of see thru leaving just a little to the imagination.

keep david out of the show but he is multi talented, so use him.

[gaymandenmark]

My suggestions would be:
Try to attrac the young crowd (yes it was also like that in good old days).
No old dragqueen shows.
Lower the prices.
Gay dancing "disco".

My suggestions would be:
Try to attrac the young crowd (yes it was also like that in good old days).
No old dragqueen shows.
Lower the prices.
Gay dancing "disco".


But, my Danish friend, you can get all that at home in Denmark (except the low prices!) - as can most tourists from Europe, Australia, USA, Canada etc

If the "grand revival plan" is to turn Boyztown into a mini Manchester gay village (UK), with thumping music drowning out any conversation and where if you are over 25 you may as well stay home, turn the lights off, put on a marigold rubber glove and have a wank - then I don't think it's gonna work. Young western tourists would rather go short-haul to other places which can offer all that you mention, more conveniently and more cheaply.

In my opinion, the main reason for the decline is the economic situation and the growing tendancy to search for better value for money .

Note: we are not concerned with retired ex-pats - they are here anyway and are going nowhere - we are concerned with (predominantly gay) tourists, not all of whom have HSBC Premier Accounts despite what others may think.

The problem in attracting gay tourists to Boyztown is:

1. They predominantly come for only 2 things - Booze & Boys and they want good VFM in both
2. For "purchasing power", the exchange rate v the Baht is now very poor (exception- Australia)
3. Many of the bars and the better restaurants are overpriced and the exchange rate makes this more obvious (200B for a drink is now almost ┬г5/$8 whereas it was half that a few years ago. Some places in BKK charging 300B/┬г7/$11 are just pricing themselves out of the market altogether and will have 1 busy night and 6 dead nights..
4. The "Gay trade" is notoriously fickle anyway - what was "the best thing since sliced bread" 2 years ago will be a "waste of time" this year - and this is where I DO agree - the venues in Boyztown are essentially offering the same as they did 10 or more years ago.
5. So that's the "booze" taken care of - that leaves the "boys" - there are less of them than before, there are far fewer "stunners" whatever your taste, they want to DO less now (all many want is a ST trick rather than "take care you" as it used to be) - and you can get better boys and better value via Gay Romeo than you can from most of the bars.


Well that's my tuppence worth as they say. I'm aware there's more negatives than positive suggestions but I really can't think what Boyztown can do - lowering prices won't attract anybody new but it may help to keep the repeat business. Better entertainment, ditto. :dontknow:

:occasion9:

THe main things people want now is value for money, and thats hard to find now in boys town. Take the cafe royale, toi has been singing there for too long , where in the west would you find a singer in the same place for almost 10 years? Last week i was up near big C (2nd road) and 1 of the open bars had a group playing queen songs, it was full to over flowing, some thing like that should be tried by the cafe. I am not trying to run down the cafe but just compare the prices to the venue in jomtiem, Beer is 140bht in the cafe 120 in venue soda water 100 via 80, no wonder theres hardly any guys in there after midnight, and the venue now has decent shows put on by Ray and Darren, GOOD VALUE., The drink prices are too high in most bars in boys town . Again compare the cafe beer 140 whole sale price 30 to 35 bht , soda water 100 whole sale 10bht, drop the prices and bring in a decent show , then see if people come to watch, and stay for a while instead of having 1 drink and leaving

[gaymandenmark]

"But, my Danish friend, you can get all that at home in Denmark (except the low prices!) - as can most tourists from Europe, Australia, USA, Canada etc"

Yes my Scottish friend I know :hello1:

But why not attrac the young crowd born in Thailand, they can be freelancers, no problem for me, who enjoy the "beat", as before, in BT. Why not turn some of the bars in BT into some kind of venue in Pattaya, where the crowd from eg. DJ, Soi 2, in Bangkok is running to every weekend?

Maybe it will not work, but I think someone should think in alternatives.

I know what I can get in Denmark or in Scotland, if it matters, but I can not have the feeling of being in Thailand, all the thai boys, their smooth skin and bodies and the happy feeling of being there.

I just dont think I get value for the money in Boyztown anymore, maybe because I am not a go-go bar person, not even in Panorama.

I dont think I am a Cheap Charlie, but prefer to use my money in Sunee, Bangkok, Chaing Mai and on the boyz.

[PinkSilom]

The main things people want now is value for money . . . Beer is 140bht in the cafe 120 in venue . . .'

Many expats and regular visitors have an Oscars/Panorama membership card, giving them a 10% discount at the Caf├й Royale. However, that still makes the beer 6 baht more at the Caf├й Royale.


. . . the venue now has decent shows put on by Ray and Darren . . .

That highly subjective statement is an opinion, not a fact.


After all the night manager that they hired recently is one of the old dragsters and she will never change nor bring change to Cafe Royale. She can't even change anything but the front sign in front of her bar! She doesnt even fix the step in front of her bar so that people wont fall. Surrounds you with 15 fat ladyboys of ladyboys. Not a handsome MAN amongst them. My opinion.

We are all entitled to our opinion, but please be aware that most of us are physically capable of lifting our feet high enough to clear a step. Furthermore, we don't all want a tattooed baht bus driver up to their armpit in our anus. Although I think it's very kind of you to give them somewhere to ply their trade.

[colmx]

Drop the price of a drink to 99B and boystown revival would def happen

Lets face it if the girly bars can get by on sub 70B drinks - the straight bars can too...

If this is unrealistic - let the fist drink be sub 150, and 2nd and subsquent drinks 100-120B
Boy drinks 100B always

The main things people want now is value for money . . . Beer is 140bht in the cafe 120 in venue . . .'

Many expats and regular visitors have an Oscars/Panorama membership card, giving them a 10% discount at the Caf├й Royale. However, that still makes the beer 6 baht more at the Caf├й Royale.

PinkSilom, it's not about ex-pats. Ex-pats won't grow the market -they're already here and are going nowhere except the grave (sorry guys). And anyway - Unkie lets them get boozed up for 99B I believe.

Your average 2 week tourist won't benefit from the Discount card unless they are a raging alcoholic in which case they probably don't know what they are paying anyway. Frankly I'd be surprised if the Discount Card is widely used. Across the board price cuts are what is necessary to stem the haemorrhage of regular visitors and attract others back from Sunee and elsewhere.

I agree with your other 2 points wholeheartedly and deprecate the attack on David at LCR. He is one of the nicest guys you could meet and it is solely down to HIM that LCR gets much of its trade - go back 2 years and it was nigh on empty, that's how run-down it had got. As for the entertainment, there may well be contractual issues preventing the wholesale changes suggested.

:occasion9:

[Marsha-old]

Scottish Guy said
PinkSilom, it's not about ex-pats. Ex-pats won't grow the market -they're already here and are going nowhere except the grave (sorry guys). And anyway - Unkie lets them get boozed up for 99B I believe.

Your average 2 week tourist won't benefit from the Discount card unless they are a raging alcoholic in which case they probably don't know what they are paying anyway. Frankly I'd be surprised if the Discount Card is widely used. Across the board price cuts are what is necessary to stem the haemorrhage of regular visitors and attract others back from Sunee and elsewhere.

I agree with your other 2 points wholeheartedly and deprecate the attack on David at LCR. He is one of the nicest guys you could meet and it is solely down to HIM that LCR gets much of its trade - go back 2 years and it was nigh on empty, that's how run-down it had got. As for the entertainment, there may well be contractual issues preventing the wholesale changes suggested.


Scottish guy, I think you are wrong in your statement. When Mick was running LCR at night it was often busy. All i see that David has brought to LCR is
sod all. If i was Craig I would be looking at changing the management and entertainment. Bring someone with a bit of life, that will know what to do to get the customers back.
Maybe table top dancing, not gogos but sexy dancers, with a good DJ and let freelancers in. Drop the prices a little and your be laughing all the way to the bank :alc:

I think you may have misunderstood what I meant - maybe I didn't express it well:

In its heyday LCR was very busy - specifically when Ian and Robbie were around - but that ended 3 or 4 years ago I'm afraid. Going back 2 or 3 years it was dead as a dodo, the food was awful and the whole place was depressing.

David has made an improvement over that sorry state - in my opinion only . I am not saying LCR is as busy as in its heyday (where is?) - I'm saying it is better now than the depths of 2/3/4 years ago when it was truly awful, with inedible food, 20 watt light bulbs which meant you couldn't see the bloody menu, and just a place really you would only go if you wallowed in self-pity and wanted to feel depressed.

Yes, it's not ideal, I agree. The entertainment is repetitive but he can still fill the place when he has his theme nights. Maybe his hands are tied to an extent, that's the impression I get.

:hello1:

Years ago when I used to have early evening drinks , in Serene, My lLfe or Panorama the thai food carts used to set up shop where Madam Jim parkes her truck and the rest of the space packed with bikes.

I appreciate that Ambience,Cafe Royale and even Street life would not be happy if they were to return, but watching the bar boys eating from these stalls was always an eye candy moment, and at times I have had a snack from them as well. Later in the evening I would usually buy an off a snack from these stalls and he either ate there or with me in My Way or Serene. I think Panorama did not allow.

But the street is empty and folorn. Maybe the activity and the availabliity of Thai snacks for beer bar patrons and their boys is a way to make things busier. These stands would not seriously be considered as competition for the 3 restaurants. Anything that brings and keeps more people in soi 3 has to be looked at.
Wow! i am sure they really appreciatd your 25 baht contribution to the food stalls, and no doubt your 70 baht for the one drink that no doubt lasted you all evening, maybe you should have taken your "off"to Bruno's, Mata Hari or Mantra?

Regarding the 2 singers , i belive both of them have long term contracts fixed by mike when he was in charge, these would have to be terminated to allow a change

Regarding the 2 singers , i belive both of them have long term contracts fixed by mike when he was in charge, these would have to be terminated to allow a change

You have hit the nail on the head dear

:occasion9:

Regarding the 2 singers , i belive both of them have long term contracts fixed by mike when he was in charge, these would have to be terminated to allow a change

You have hit the nail on the head dear

:occasion9:
Mike? do you mean Mick? who wouldn't have had the authority to agree to contracts anyhow, that was all down to Tim, the American Manager, is that the same one from Panorama/Funny Boys?

[lonelywombat]

Wow! i am sure they really appreciatd your 25 baht contribution to the food stalls, and no doubt your 70 baht for the one drink that no doubt lasted you all evening, maybe you should have taken your "off"to Bruno's, Mata Hari or Mantra?

Looks like it is a quiet night in the toilets tonight. get up from your knees dear, time to go home.

Gents,

I find the posts criticising David unfair in the extreme.

I would like to take this opportunity to set the record straight on a few issues here. Le Cafe Royale was going down the pan around 2001 when I got involved with them. The additional rooms,which were new and brought in by me in a' loose partnership ' this business was for mutual benefit of all of us.

I used their reception for bookings and we shared costs for maids and handymen and they got the benefit of new rooms, increased coffee shop and Bar trade, as well as the appearance of a new wing or new ' string to the bow'

I told Old Ian (Read) time and time again about refurbishing the rooms. I will not go into the ins and outs,safe to say they were not done right up to Ians death. Robbie was ill at the time and had limited interest. To make matters worse, I developed throat cancer and Ian McKnight also passed away.

I sold out after my operation for Cancer in 2006, Ian Read died whilst I was having my operation.

Robbie died in 2008 after I had been sent to prison,(another disgrace). Whilst I was in prison,Mick went down and then later died of a Brain aneurysm. Also, My Thai Manager, Yoe, of Throb and Splash died of Cancer at a very young age.

I think we can safely say a lot happened during this period of time. However, Le Cafe had needed an uplift/refurb call it what you want for a long time. Tom,the American day manager had a great deal to cope with throughout all this.

David was brought in as a night manager to a place already beset by grief and catastrophe. David had to basically attempt raising a ' Phoenix from the ashes ' of the Cafe.

During this time,because of difficulties between my old place,(now Copa) and Le Cafe,they split from the ' mutually beneficial trading arrangement' for whatever reasons.

So all in all, David has not had it easy and has tried his best to get the place on track with using the best of his ideas and knowledge to achieve this.

I believe there were constraints on budgets which I won't go into,but he has done his best.

On top of all this, a global recession hit and an economic downturn around the World,as you all know. This was followed by the Red shirts/yellow shirts,airport closures, change of clientele to mainly Russians and a revolution in the way the Thai boys operate with the advent of Gay Romeo and the like.

How anybody can blame poor bloody David in all of this is beyond belief. He has had to start from scratch with a premises that has suffered unbelievable ill fortune, he has also continued with his Thais for Life efforts, Ban jing jai, various other fundraising for Heartt 2000 and still kept a smile on his face.

Yes, I do believe the rooms need a makeover,which is not Davids department or wasn't.

He needs time and a bit of support which I believe he is getting from various quarters. He is not a remote guy,he is a people person who would certainly listen to proposals from customers that he believed would improve trade and benefit the people who frequent the Cafe Royale.

I have said in other posts that times are changing, new ideas need to come but if anyone deserves a break,it is David and Le Cafe Royale. A bit like a football team really, you have to try new ideas, players and moves to see what is a winning formula.

I wish him the very best of luck for the future and Tom as well...... :notworthy: :notworthy:

[lonelywombat]

Last week i was up near big C (2nd road) and 1 of the open bars had a group playing queen songs, it was full to over flowing, some thing like that should be tried by the cafe.

Again compare the cafe beer 140 whole sale price 30 to 35 bht , soda water 100 whole sale 10bht, drop the prices and bring in a decent show , then see if people come to watch, and stay for a while instead of having 1 drink and leaving


Drop the price of a drink to 99B and boystown revival would def happen

Lets face it if the girly bars can get by on sub 70B drinks - the straight bars can too...

If this is unrealistic - let the first drink be sub 150, and 2nd and subsquent drinks 100-120B
Boy drinks 100B always

To compare the open bar with bars is Boyztown does not take in overheads and shows little idea of running a business. The rent on the open bar in the boondocks would be 5% of what a business in Boyztown pays before adding tea money, minimum wage for all staff , aircon, insurance and so on. Have you any idea of the volume of drinks that has to be sold to even break even.

Colmx you could drop the prices like Happyplace has done but it is not crowded every night as you suggest it would be. In the main it is the expat that shops around for the cheap drinks not the 14 day annual leave tourist. I think that bar owners that rely on expats chasing bottom prices for drinks, need to have deep pockets and be running the bar as a hobby.l

The thread seems to divide into those who feel cheap drinks will be the saviour of BT and those who feel that more imagination is needed to attract the tourist dollar.

I would be interested to hear from Kevin Quill as to how they arranged all the tour groups that packed his old Throb Club every night.

To compare the open bar with bars is Boyztown does not take in overheads and shows little idea of running a business. The rent on the open bar in the boondocks would be 5% of what a business in Boyztown pays before adding tea money, minimum wage for all staff , aircon, insurance and so on. Have you any idea of the volume of drinks that has to be sold to even break even.

Colmx you could drop the prices like Happyplace has done but it is not crowded every night as you suggest it would be. In the main it is the expat that shops around for the cheap drinks not the 14 day annual leave tourist.

The thread sems to divide into those who feel cheap drinks will be the saviour of BT and those who feel that more imagination is needed to attract the tourist dollar.

I would be interested to hear from Kevin Quill as to how they arranged all the tour groups that packed his old Throb Club every night.

Hi,

We used to get most of the trade,believe it or not, by advertising all over Pattaya in both gay and straight bars.

I actually knew a great many of the girls working in the go go bars, a lot of the straight guys who visited Pattaya, and we also did business with Hard Rock Cafe and others so we had a hard core of diverse trade and customers.

We also, Mark and I, used a lot of ' shoe leather' in promoting the bars and constantly letting the likes of Pattaya People,( Neils Colov), and Pattaya Today, (Barry Kenyon) know what we were doing and asking them to get us in the papers with our ideas.

We also did a great deal of entertainment appealing to Thais, hence the famous Thai singers etc that played or appeared at the bar.

I would personally take staff and go and physically put posters up in the bars in Bangkok, as well as far and wide in different locales around Pattaya.

We used every tool at our disposal including this forum and were very proactive in promotion, which we did successfully.

The tour groups came from word of mouth and looking after them well when they came to the bar.... :sunny:

We DID NOT bow to the greed of the touts and told them, if they were charging the customer a set price, then THEY, the tour guide was completely responsible for taking the orders and paying the bill.

I made it clear if the customer ordered from one of our waiters they would pay the normal bar price, not the inflated tour guide price for Chinese tour groups!

It wasn't overnight and took time but word spread and got around. Lonelywombat,without any self promoting, I don't think ANY other bar gay or straight,put as much sheer effort, sweat and tears into getting the name known far and wide as what we did. We were relentless,but when you enjoy what you are doing it isn't hard.

Also, I loved and enjoyed the work, I loved the fun and the bar and the customers, so did Mark and the showboys and it oozed out from us for all to see. I'll never forget those times. We made good money too.

Probably the best fun in my life only to be curtailed by ill health and the unashamed GREED and corrupt practices of others... :crybaby:

C'est La Vie,

[lonelywombat]

,


It wasn't overnight and took time but word spread and got around. Lonelywombat,without any self promoting, I don't think ANY other bar gay or straight,put as much sheer effort, sweat and tears into getting the name known far and wide as what we did. We were relentless,but when you enjoy what you are doing it isn't hard.

Also, I loved and enjoyed the work, I loved the fun and the bar and the customers, so did Mark and the showboys and it oozed out from us for all to see. I'll never forget those times. We made good money too.

Probably the best fun in my life only to be curtailed by ill health and the unashamed GREED and corrupt practices of others.:

,

I have only quoted part of the preceding post. I agree with all Kevin says.

Two things I learnt in business-

you cant do business sitting or your arse [waiting]

you create your own luck.

Obviously Kevin thats exactly what you did and the reasons others are not as successful. You went out and made it happen, too many are waiting for it to happen.

Here in OZ we refer to the cargo cult mentality. After WW2 the natives of PNG after seeing all the goods bought in by air by the Allies , made it almost a religion to worship the the airplane as a source of riches, even to making imitation landing strips. In many ways I think a lot of bars have the same mentality.

[bucknaway]

When I first entered the bars in Thailand, I was disappointed to find that they were not more in keeping with a Thai theme. They were playing the same music they play here in the USA and the shows were the same that I would see in Philly, DC or NYC. I was expecting to see guys dressed in traditional clothing as shown in the travel magazines. I wanted to hear popular Thai music being played. I was only there for a short time and I wanted to see the Thailand as shown on the postcards.

I still remember the first date I had with a Thai guy. He was so happy to take me to a restaurant that served American type food. Sigh..... After flying for 24 hours in a plane, the last thing I wanted to do was search out American culture in Thailand. I came to Thailand to immerse myself in as much Thai culture as possible and it only made me sad to find that the illusion I was looking for stopped at the bar/disco door.

If I were going to take a chance on opening a bar in Thailand, I would try to do something unheard of. I would try to open a place that would make the vacationer realize that they are in Thailand and on Holiday.

On slow night, I would have the staff take a few minutes to chat with the customers by sitting with them and having a short conversation. No drink, no tip, just friendly conversation until it is time for them to get up and dance or something.

On a side note, when I was at Krazy Dragon last time, I was wondering if there was a easier way to tip the guys? It seem to be a problem getting 20 baht notes all the time from the banks. If I had a bar similar to Krazy Dragon, I would make it easier to tip the guys. I would sell cheap bracelets or coins that would hold a 20 baht value. Something like a elastic-string bracelet that could be slipped on a guys... Um.. Hand? Foot? Pinky finger? They could turn them into the bar and exchange them for the cash paid for them. If the bar opens at 7pm, I would run a promotion that says if you buy 25 tip bracelets (500 baht Value) Get 5 free (100 Baht Value) and there would be no refunds on tip bracelets and they can't be used for purchases.

If you don't spend all your tip bracelets on that night than you can come back the next night and give them out or give them as a gift to a friend that goes to the bar. I think the only thing that would ruin it would be if the bar was found to take a cut of the tips from the guys.

Well.... That's all I got right now.

[blueboy]

You have to realise that boyztown in its heyday (10-20 years ago) use to still attract 50-70 year olds, so those same guys are now 60-90 years old and probably stopped coming, or if they live here maybe have boyfriends and do not go out much to Boyztown.
So the recipe that was working then: dragshows, Toi singing and food carts are 10-20 years behind the time. Boyz town needs to re-invent itself. Funny boys is smart and always full of boys, Copa's renovations are good but the show is sad and lacks sexy energy. The new cafe where the awful Amor used to be has got the right idea, but the problem is all the others have not changed decor, chairs (try the ones at Panorama or the garden chairs at Cafe Royale), shows or anything at all - Panorama, the one bar next to it, BBB, Toy boys, ambiance cafe, never mind the rip off massage place opposite Toy boys - they really are awful. Cafe Royale insitence of keeping Toi and just changing the decor has not worked. David is a very nice guy, but I think is too much of an old drag to see modern and youthful change.
I can imagine the owners of these establishments have never bothered to visit gay bars in other countries or even websites - some places are universe ahead! Don't need to go far, Ho Chi Minh has some nice bars/discos, so has Phnom Penh, Siem Reap, Singapore, Bali, Sydney etc.

Furthermore, as mentioned by previous posters, prices prices prices - everyone is cutting down on expenses, so what could be a nightly outing in Boyztown is now once a week for tourists never mind expats.

It's either things will carry on as they are (downwards), or things change for the more modern, hip-er and cheaper (upwards). I fear the people running Boyztown are too old and too set in their ways, and of course know it all!!!

[Marsilius]

On a side note, when I was at Krazy Dragon last time, I was wondering if there was a easier way to tip the guys? It seem to be a problem getting 20 baht notes all the time from the banks.

I've never had a problem asking the cashier at the bar to change a couple of hundred notes into twenties. Of course, you might think that he'd run out quite quickly - but he seems to keep a good stock in anticipation of such requests and, I imagine, as soon as a boy has accumulated five twenties he probably goes back to the bar and exhanges them for a hundred note - so the twenties are quickly available again for customers who've arrived with no small change.

[lonelywombat]

I think you may have misunderstood what I meant - maybe I didn't express it well:

In its heyday LCR was very busy - specifically when Ian and Robbie were around - but that ended 3 or 4 years ago I'm afraid. Going back 2 or 3 years it was dead as a dodo, the food was awful and the whole place was depressing.

David has made an improvement over that sorry state - in my opinion only . I am not saying LCR is as busy as in its heyday (where is?) - I'm saying it is better now than the depths of 2/3/4 years ago when it was truly awful, with inedible food, 20 watt light bulbs which meant you couldn't see the bloody menu, and just a place really you would only go if you wallowed in self-pity and wanted to feel depressed.

Yes, it's not ideal, I agree. The entertainment is repetitive but he can still fill the place when he has his theme nights. Maybe his hands are tied to an extent, that's the impression I get.

:hello1:
To me it appeared my last 2 visits that CR was the basket case of soi 3 . After reading scottish--guy above , I thought I would check out their web page.

First it appears that El Duo have split and the smaller one is doing solo 3 nights per week. The next function is the Royal wedding, and I shudder at the thought of it. A quicK look down the planned monthly functions for the year underlines the problem. CR is catering for expats, special night once every 4 weeks.
http://www.caferoyale-pattaya.com/index.php?p=whaton

Scottish said maybe Davids hands are tied. Does he mean there is no interest or no money available to improve CR as a daily tourist destination?
Sure happyplace has its once a month boybingo, it appears that CR has its once a month whatever, but that does not make it a tourist attraction, nor does it keep the cash register turning over, every night at the same level. By contrast other venues are nightly.

Kevin Quill has 2 posts just above this where he outlined the hands on effort it took to build up Throb and the ongoing committment. Do the new owners of CR not have the will, the money or the expertise?

I am not suggesting competing with the Copa,Venue BBB or WWB. What I would do is to look at a male dance troop . I believe WWR pays dancers 7000-9000 baht per month and they make their own costumes. They had a totally different type of dancing to other venues as they were not back up for a ladyboi miming, but dancers usually barefoot but trained.

At the moment CR offers DK a singer I am assuming is one of El Duo 3 nights a week. Khun Mae [boy or girl?] sings 4 alternate nights to DK. Toi sings mon - sat at 11.30.
A dance troop integrated with the solo singer can provide life and competition to other places
in soi 3. But do they have the will and the money.

Last year when I went to see El Duo, both times waiters were not allowed to do waiter service during the show. I had to go to the bar myself. That was pre David and I hope things have improved. Personally I thought the wait staff looked bored and lacked training. I wondered if a free lancers arrangement like La Cage where David first started off, might be worth a try.

The question is do the new owners of CR want to improve, do they have the money to do so or is it just a hobby and they could not care less.

[bucknaway]

Yeah, many of us go to the bars for the guys and the bars force the drag queens on us! :rolling:

[a447]

I would try to open a place that would make the vacationer realize that they are in Thailand and on Holiday.

As soon as I walk into a bar and a guy pulls his cock out, I know I'm in Thailand!

Taking the cafe , which is what most guys are talking about, the trouble is that Craig the owner lives in the uk , is st8 and only visits abouts 2 times a year. When Ian was alive and was in the bar every nite, things were not the same , the thai guys who now visit dave , or nab used to come in after midnite and the place buzzed .

[Beachlover]

But why not attrac the young crowd born in Thailand, they can be freelancers, no problem for me, who enjoy the "beat", as before, in BT. Why not turn some of the bars in BT into some kind of venue in Pattaya, where the crowd from eg. DJ, Soi 2, in Bangkok is running to every weekend?
When you say "young crowd born in Thailand" are you talking about normal Thai boys or commercial sex moneyboys?

The former isn't interested in hanging out with old farangs.

But for the latter, maybe a disco, which gets going a bit earlier in the night (like DJ Station) than existing discos (NAB etc.) would attract the non-gogo moneyboys and become popular enough to liven up the Boyztown scene. Is that what you mean? If it were successful it would probably have a flow-on effect for venues surrounding it in Boyztown.

I think there's already "after hours" clubs the commercial boys go to like NAB but they don't get going until after the gogo bars have finished up, which might be a bit late for some farangs. Having said that, there might be issues getting permits with the right opening hours for a late-night disco (e.g. get started 11am and close around 3-4am) in Boyztown.




Wow! i am sure they really appreciatd your 25 baht contribution to the food stalls, and no doubt your 70 baht for the one drink that no doubt lasted you all evening, maybe you should have taken your "off"to Bruno's, Mata Hari or Mantra?
Looks like it is a quiet night in the toilets tonight. get up from your knees dear, time to go home.
That's right, Lonely.

Hey LMTU / let me tell u (AKA devilsadvocate)... Wow, I'm sure Thailand really appreciates a disgusting crusty toilet cock sucking sexpat like you who spends his time pursing the youngest possible boys money can buy in Thailand!

[Beachlover]

But the street is empty and folorn. Maybe the activity and the availabliity of Thai snacks for beer bar patrons and their boys is a way to make things busier.... One of the things I love about Thailand is how much life there is on the streets -- everywhere. Where in Canada, it's somewhat like living in a mall. Just a bunch of consumers going from point A to point B.
Yeah, I agree... The street life is one thing I love about most of Asia and especially Bangkok. Here in Sydney, the streets might be spacious and clean but they get too sterile and dull. I love the full on hustle and bustle and mess of Asian cities.


Probably the best fun in my life only to be curtailed by ill health and the unashamed GREED and corrupt practices of others.
From what you say of your initiatives compared with how the bar sounds now, it sounds like losing you was a greater loss, NOT offest by whatever gain they may have made from the fiasco.

...
When you say "young crowd born in Thailand" are you talking about normal Thai boys or commercial sex moneyboys?

The former isn't interested in hanging out with old farangs.

I always avoid them for that precise reason.

:occasion9:

[Up2U]

...........
The thread seems to divide into those who feel cheap drinks will be the saviour of BT and those who feel that more imagination is needed to attract the tourist dollar................

You can read alot into that one sentence. Why does it have to be one or the other, why not both? As I alluded to before in earlier posts, Does BT have a business model? If so, what is it? Is that it, "to attract the tourist dollar"? My sense is that the BT model, from both owners and their loyal patrons perspective, is just fine. That the problems are circumstances beyond their control (exchange rate, the economy, airport closures, etc.). If the dollar were at 38 and the pound at 65 again all would be well. I see parallels between this kind of thinking, and BT and the American auto industry of years past. Americans produced big, boring, expensive, gas hogs and saw the import in-roads as a minor nuisance. Well, we all know the story, Americans had choices and took advantage of them, never looked back and rest is history. Lessons learned, when you lose a customer it very difficult to get him back. Gay tourists and the large expat community now have choices too. BT is not the only game in town. And do not underestimate the power of the InterNet (i.e., Gay Romeo). When my Gay friends come to visit they now, they rent condo in JomTien or stay at the Venue, Ganeymeade or Poseidon. There are many places to dine. If they want a drag show, there is the Venue or possibly the Bondi. Then there are visits to the Sunee and Duc's or the Corner Bar. They actually serve a half-way decent, inexpensive burger or Sloppy Joe. The go-go bars have more energy. In short, if you want to have fun and more fun for your money, it is not in BT.

You can read alot into that one sentence. Why does it have to be one or the other, why not both? As I alluded to before in earlier posts, Does BT have a business model? If so, what is it? Is that it, "to attract the tourist dollar"? My sense is that the BT model, from both owners and their loyal patrons perspective, is just fine. That the problems are circumstances beyond their control (exchange rate, the economy, airport closures, etc.). If the dollar were at 38 and the pound at 65 again all would be well. I see parallels between this kind of thinking, and BT and the American auto industry of years past. Americans produced big, boring, expensive, gas hogs and saw the import in-roads as a minor nuisance. Well, we all know the story, Americans had choices and took advantage of them, never looked back and rest is history. Lessons learned, when you lose a customer it very difficult to get him back. Gay tourists and the large expat community now have choices too. BT is not the only game in town. And do not underestimate the power of the InterNet (i.e., Gay Romeo). When my Gay friends come to visit they now, they rent condo in JomTien or stay at the Venue, Ganeymeade or Poseidon. There are many places to dine. If they want a drag show, there is the Venue or possibly the Bondi. Then there are visits to the Sunee and Duc's or the Corner Bar. They actually serve a half-way decent, inexpensive burger or Sloppy Joe. The go-go bars have more energy. In short, if you want to have fun and more fun for your money, it is not in BT.

You mean the tourists along with the expats due to the exchange controls and rates have now made themselves aware and woke up and smelt the coffee?

Taking the cafe , which is what most guys are talking about, the trouble is that Craig the owner lives in the uk , is st8 and only visits abouts 2 times a year. When Ian was alive and was in the bar every nite, things were not the same , the thai guys who now visit dave , or nab used to come in after midnite and the place buzzed .

In those days there was no Dave or NAB, or for that matter XRay or Dude or any of the other gay discos that have come and gone. Granted there was Hollywood but that was very mixed and not liked by many guys.
Get real. Thai boys went to Cafe Royale after hours because there were few places else for them to go, and they could often find someone there to buy them a drink or take them home.
Times have changed and there are less boys around who make their living from selling themselves down in Boyztown. Now they have jobs in Big C or some other shopping center or in any of the several new hotels that have sprung up since the days you talk about. After they finish work they now go onto Gay Romeo or go to a karaoke with their Thai friends.
The advantages of Gay Romeo are obvious: No expensive drinks to buy; the ability to ignore pushy customers they don't like; a wider selection of customers and they can do it all from their laptop or i phone while watching the TV in their rooms.
It is a vicious circle for Le Cafe - less boys means less farang customers and less farang means less available boys in the bar. People have moved on and getting back the days of Ian, Robbie, Mick etc. is pie in the sky ... no matter who the host is or what type of music is now performed in the new Cafe Music bar.

[thonglor55]

When you say "young crowd born in Thailand" are you talking about normal Thai boys or commercial sex moneyboys? The former isn't interested in hanging out with old farangs.You simply don't know what you are talking about. I've visited or lived in many countries and I have always found younger guys who are interested in hanging out with older guys. Don't take my word for it. Go onto Gayromeo and look for Thai guys who say "I want old man". They are not all money boys. Sure, there are not that many, but to say that "young crowd born in Thailand ... isn't interested in hanging out with old farangs" as a blanket statement is to confirm what we already knew - your ignorance of human nature is profound. Oh and don't come back with that boring, predictable homintern = thonglor55. We all know you're still infatuated with the sight of your legs draped around that old fart's neck, but don't drag the rest of us into your fantasies.

[Peter28]

Taking the cafe , which is what most guys are talking about, the trouble is that Craig the owner lives in the uk , is st8 and only visits abouts 2 times a year. When Ian was alive and was in the bar every nite, things were not the same , the thai guys who now visit dave , or nab used to come in after midnite and the place buzzed .

In those days there was no Dave or NAB, or for that matter XRay or Dude or any of the other gay discos that have come and gone. Granted there was Hollywood but that was very mixed and not liked by many guys.
Get real. Thai boys went to Cafe Royale after hours because there were few places else for them to go, and they could often find someone there to buy them a drink or take them home.
Times have changed and there are less boys around who make their living from selling themselves down in Boyztown. Now they have jobs in Big C or some other shopping center or in any of the several new hotels that have sprung up since the days you talk about. After they finish work they now go onto Gay Romeo or go to a karaoke with their Thai friends.
The advantages of Gay Romeo are obvious: No expensive drinks to buy; the ability to ignore pushy customers they don't like; a wider selection of customers and they can do it all from their laptop or i phone while watching the TV in their rooms.
It is a vicious circle for Le Cafe - less boys means less farang customers and less farang means less available boys in the bar. People have moved on and getting back the days of Ian, Robbie, Mick etc. is pie in the sky ... no matter who the host is or what type of music is now performed in the new Cafe Music bar.
ABC

[Peter28]

Report this postReply with quote Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
Author: bucknaway ┬╗ Sat 16 Apr, 2011 9:31 pm

Yeah, many of us go to the bars for the guys and the bars force the drag queens on us!

[markie1]

well having just returned from a short trip to Bangkok and pataya, i found the whole sean boring and dead ,Soi twilight has not changed except they have increased there prices yet again ,can they not understand we can not afford to pay over ┬г6.00 a drink, around about ┬г12.00 for two drinks ,its way too much , the shows dont change ,there still the same ,so what are we paying for .i know i only entererd one go go bar in soi twilight because i really will not pay those silly prices ,its works out far too expencive if you are with your boy friend.
Pataya was really very quiet ,, again over priced drinks , no atmosphire, boys bored ,no customers ,WHY?? people can not offord it any more ,there getting completely ripped off,
Gay romeo the internet is a much cheaper option all around. reduce the prices i am sure you will get a lot more customers,100 baht is a reasonable price for a drink ,lower these silly prices and you will sure get a bigger audiance,,wake up boys town ,,before it complewtetly goes down the pan .

Had dinner at Cafe royal , boring over priced ,no customers ,no atmosphere,dead .what has happened there ,i Used to love going there a few years ago ,always ended up in cafe royal ,great late night venue ,.
I will be amazed if it gets back on its feet , its all to do with greed , and greed bites you .





Report this postReply with quote Re: Reviving Boyztown. What does it take
Author: bucknaway ┬╗ Sat 16 Apr, 2011 9:31 pm

Yeah, many of us go to the bars for the guys and the bars force the drag queens on us!

[gaymandenmark]

ewen Panaroma is to expensive for what you get, moved on after one or two drink. if there even was some fun as before, I would pay the prices. But is is borring to death. BBB was fun before with the small dancing area, when the shows stopped. Royal was nice before like a nice late venue.
I went on to Sunee and after that went to Bangkok Silom soi 4 and 2. Getting a thunderstorm Gin/Tonic or even Kemicase drink for 100 bht. in DJ and the others bars in Soi 2 is still good value for the money.

The expatas cannot afford the drink prices even if you brought them down to 99 baht as we do. I mean look at Sunee who have their unaircon no show bars at 50 baht and it is still empty! The clubs that have aircon and shows cannot afford 99 baht for everyone all the time. Boyztown rent prices are much higher than Jomtien, Jomtien Complex, and Day Night. I went for the expats originally and, well to tell you the truth, they dont come so often. Its the tourist that still pays the bills. So the bars think, why change the show, the tourists are only here for a week or 10 days.
I can tell you that price, plus value, plus customer service, plus changing the showsplu a healthy economy, and getting the old crap out, makes for a sucsessful bar. We do it and again last night had only TWO seats left unfilled. Bars like this bring customers. Customers into the area revitalize the area. When you start having OWNERS who get the message, then Boyztown will have a fighting chance.

[bucknaway]

The ways things are going the baht may be trading at 24 baht's to the US Dollar. I may have to drink in my room or outside the 7-11 like the construction workers! :alc:

[Beachlover]

went to Bangkok Silom soi 4 and 2. Getting a thunderstorm Gin/Tonic or even Kemicase drink for 100 bht. in DJ and the others bars in Soi 2 is still good value for the money.
DJ Station and other Soi 2 venues have to remain good value for money because most of their customers are Thais, not farang. And from what I've seen there's no way DJ Station could not make money... it gets PACKED! And the customers tend to stay there most of the night, rather than move onto other bars.

From memory, you pay around 200 baht (includes two drinks) for entry on weekends and 100 baht (includes one drink) on week nights for entry into DJ Station.

[thonglor55]

And from what I've seen there's no way DJ Station could not make money... it gets PACKED! So according to the Australia's greatest young entrepreneur, turnover = profit. Not when I did my MBA, son.

[netrix]

the baht was pegged to the U.S. dollar at an exchange rate of 25 baht from 1984 until 1997.
before that, it was even lower. there were only a few years during the asian financial crisis
that the baht rose and the exchange was better for foreigners. the exchange rate is not
the problem. the problem is rising prices in a poor global economy.

it's been said here already, the straight bars, and even the tourist bars on walking street
often have drinks at 99 baht or less. i'm ok with paying a little more, but if i'm gonna
pay ten bucks for a drink and be expected to buy drinks for boys and hang out for a while
ordering more, then there's got to be more going on than a few queeny boys walking around
in their underwear. the clubs, discos and other venues are just more attractive.

one of my favorite gay bars in san diego has $2 drinks every wednesday all night. that's
cheaper than 99 baht! they have free pizza another night every week. every night is a
different themed event.

expats will always complain that prices are too high, and that there aren't enough boys...
while they sit around and wish for the old days before the internet. for a lot of gay
tourists (notice i didn't say sex-tourists) who want to enjoy thailand and all it has to
offer, they're not going to be too concerned about pushy mamasans and music that's too loud.
they'll simply leave and go do something else...like a concert or disco or full moon party or
a million other things.

[netrix]

And from what I've seen there's no way DJ Station could not make money... it gets PACKED! So according to the Australia's greatest young entrepreneur, turnover = profit. Not when I did my MBA, son.

high turnover with a low margin of profit beats low turnover with a high profit, daddy.

And from what I've seen there's no way DJ Station could not make money... it gets PACKED! So according to the Australia's greatest young entrepreneur, turnover = profit. Not when I did my MBA, son.

high turnover with a low margin of profit beats low turnover with a high profit, daddy.

That depends entirely on the nature of the business.

Simplistic example: it might work for Wal-Mart, but not for a single-operation bar in Pattaya

:occasion9:

[netrix]

Simplistic example: it might work for Wal-Mart, but not for a single-operation bar in Pattaya


please explain.
i agree with shared logistics, distribution, volume wholesale discounts, etc. high sales
at low prices is more profitable than a mom and pop store trying to compete at the same
prices.

but i don't care if we're talking about a lemonade stand. if you sell lemonade at $9 a
cup, and i move in across the street and start selling it at $3 a cup, then it's simple math.
all i need is 3 times more clients to make the same revenues as you.

but here's the deal. with more customers (and more HAPPY customers i might add) that
means more word of mouth free promotion. it also means that the same customers will
not only come back more often, but they'll spend more than they would otherwise.

even if the result is an initial loss-leader, the increase in publicity and repeat customers
would make up for it.

Simplistic example: it might work for Wal-Mart, but not for a single-operation bar in Pattaya


please explain....all i need is 3 times more clients to make the same revenues as you....


Well you've just answered your own question - every day you need 3 x as many customers as I do and you will increasingly need to be able to attract them on more than just price as no business keeps all it's customers on the basis of the original proposition - you have to increasingly offer more. If you attract them on the price alone, that becomes the expectation and a proportion won't come back just for that, they want something extra next time, which further reduces your profit!

Also, suppose it's not lemonade - which is popular and easy to sell, suppose it's a product that only a limited number of people want like.....rentboys? Is there sufficient demand for you to be able to attract 3x as many customers as me? :dontknow:

And there's one more factor which comes into play especially where booze is concerned - the lower the price you sell it at the more deadbeats and trouble-makers you attract, which drives away a proportion of other "decent" customers who would rather pay more and avoid e.g. drunken Russians throwing bottles around the bar every now and again.

All I'm saying is high turnover/low profit does not suit every business, many can prosper better using the reverse formula.


:occasion9:

[netrix]

[quote="scottish-guy":1979javc]
Simplistic example: it might work for Wal-Mart, but not for a single-operation bar in Pattaya


please explain....all i need is 3 times more clients to make the same revenues as you....


Well you've just answered your own question - every day you need 3 x as many customers as I do and you will increasingly need to be able to attract them on more than just price as no business keeps all it's customers on the basis of the original proposition - you have to increasingly offer more. If you attract them on the price alone, that becomes the expectation and a proportion won't come back just for that, they want something extra next time, which further reduces your profit!

Also, suppose it's not lemonade - which is popular and easy to sell, suppose it's a product that only a limited number of people want like.....rentboys? Is there sufficient demand for you to be able to attract 3x as many customers as me? :dontknow:

And there's one more factor which comes into play especially where booze is concerned - the lower the price you sell it at the more deadbeats and trouble-makers you attract, which drives away a proportion of other "decent" customers.

All I'm saying is high turnover/low profit does not suit every business, many can prosper better using the reverse formula.


:occasion9:[/quote:1979javc]

well thanks for clarifying but i disagree with every point you make.
there are crowds in some bars and not in others. the question is why.
figure that out and you'll get more customers more often spending more.
that's exponentially more revenue.

but i'm not advocating building a business model on price alone, i was
simply defending beach's comment from the naysayers. DJ is always
crowded and has low drink prices. that doesn't mean they're crowded
BECAUSE they have low drink prices, there are other reasons too, but
i'm sure it helps. customers there stay for hours and drink all night,
while customers at dream boys down the road nurse one drink all night.

[kittyboy]

[quote="scottish-guy":1dzksmvo]
Simplistic example: it might work for Wal-Mart, but not for a single-operation bar in Pattaya


please explain....all i need is 3 times more clients to make the same revenues as you....


Well you've just answered your own question - every day you need 3 x as many customers as I do and you will increasingly need to be able to attract them on more than just price as no business keeps all it's customers on the basis of the original proposition - you have to increasingly offer more. If you attract them on the price alone, that becomes the expectation and a proportion won't come back just for that, they want something extra next time, which further reduces your profit!

Also, suppose it's not lemonade - which is popular and easy to sell, suppose it's a product that only a limited number of people want like.....rentboys? Is there sufficient demand for you to be able to attract 3x as many customers as me? :dontknow:

And there's one more factor which comes into play especially where booze is concerned - the lower the price you sell it at the more deadbeats and trouble-makers you attract, which drives away a proportion of other "decent" customers who would rather pay more and avoid e.g. drunken Russians throwing bottles around the bar every now and again.

All I'm saying is high turnover/low profit does not suit every business, many can prosper better using the reverse formula.


:occasion9:[/quote:1dzksmvo]
Scotish Guy got it dead on...The basic strategies are product differentiation or low cost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porter_generic_strategies
Read the posted wiki link for an explanation of the differences between the basic business strategies.

Scottish Guy are you an economist?

:sign5:

Do I sound that boring?

Don't answer that!!

:sign5:

All I'm saying is high turnover/low profit does not suit every business, many can prosper better using the reverse formula.


well thanks for clarifying but i disagree with every point you make.


If you disagree that a sustainable business can be run on a low turnover/high profit model, then I'm sorry but you're just plain wrong. Where there is a niche market it is often the ONLY viable stategy.

:dontknow:

[gaymandenmark]

went to Bangkok Silom soi 4 and 2. Getting a thunderstorm Gin/Tonic or even Kemicase drink for 100 bht. in DJ and the others bars in Soi 2 is still good value for the money.
DJ Station and other Soi 2 venues have to remain good value for money because most of their customers are Thais, not farang. And from what I've seen there's no way DJ Station could not make money... it gets PACKED! And the customers tend to stay there most of the night, rather than move onto other bars.

From memory, you pay around 200 baht (includes two drinks) for entry on weekends and 100 baht (includes one drink) on week nights for entry into DJ Station.

What is also interesting, I think my gin/tonic has cost the same for the last 10 years, also in the other venues in the Soi.
They are doing very well.
Yes the entry fee is 200 baht on weekends (incl. 2 drinks) and 100 baht in week nights (incl. 1 drink).

DJ Station is not for everyone, but I like it very much, even if I think it can be to crowded in the weekends.

BTW I find the drinks on the dancefloor to be much weaker, than on the other two floors.

[frequentflier]

Gents,

I find the posts criticising David unfair in the extreme.

I would like to take this opportunity to set the record straight on a few issues here. Le Cafe Royale was going down the pan around 2001 when I got involved with them. The additional rooms,which were new and brought in by me in a' loose partnership ' this business was for mutual benefit of all of us.

I used their reception for bookings and we shared costs for maids and handymen and they got the benefit of new rooms, increased coffee shop and Bar trade, as well as the appearance of a new wing or new ' string to the bow'

I told Old Ian (Read) time and time again about refurbishing the rooms. I will not go into the ins and outs,safe to say they were not done right up to Ians death. Robbie was ill at the time and had limited interest. To make matters worse, I developed throat cancer and Ian McKnight also passed away.

I sold out after my operation for Cancer in 2006, Ian Read died whilst I was having my operation.

Robbie died in 2008 after I had been sent to prison,(another disgrace). Whilst I was in prison,Mick went down and then later died of a Brain aneurysm. Also, My Thai Manager, Yoe, of Throb and Splash died of Cancer at a very young age.

I think we can safely say a lot happened during this period of time. However, Le Cafe had needed an uplift/refurb call it what you want for a long time. Tom,the American day manager had a great deal to cope with throughout all this.

David was brought in as a night manager to a place already beset by grief and catastrophe. David had to basically attempt raising a ' Phoenix from the ashes ' of the Cafe.

During this time,because of difficulties between my old place,(now Copa) and Le Cafe,they split from the ' mutually beneficial trading arrangement' for whatever reasons.

So all in all, David has not had it easy and has tried his best to get the place on track with using the best of his ideas and knowledge to achieve this.

I believe there were constraints on budgets which I won't go into,but he has done his best.

On top of all this, a global recession hit and an economic downturn around the World,as you all know. This was followed by the Red shirts/yellow shirts,airport closures, change of clientele to mainly Russians and a revolution in the way the Thai boys operate with the advent of Gay Romeo and the like.

How anybody can blame poor bloody David in all of this is beyond belief. He has had to start from scratch with a premises that has suffered unbelievable ill fortune, he has also continued with his Thais for Life efforts, Ban jing jai, various other fundraising for Heartt 2000 and still kept a smile on his face.

Yes, I do believe the rooms need a makeover,which is not Davids department or wasn't.

He needs time and a bit of support which I believe he is getting from various quarters. He is not a remote guy,he is a people person who would certainly listen to proposals from customers that he believed would improve trade and benefit the people who frequent the Cafe Royale.

I have said in other posts that times are changing, new ideas need to come but if anyone deserves a break,it is David and Le Cafe Royale. A bit like a football team really, you have to try new ideas, players and moves to see what is a winning formula.

I wish him the very best of luck for the future and Tom as well...... :notworthy: :notworthy:
Totally agree with you.David is doing all that can be done.I will be staying there next week.

[Beachlover]

DJ Station... I find the drinks on the dancefloor to be much weaker, than on the other two floors.
Interesting. I buy drinks from all 4 bars and haven't noticed this. How noticeable is the difference and was it just once or twice or have you noticed it consistently?

[gaymandenmark]

DJ Station... I find the drinks on the dancefloor to be much weaker, than on the other two floors.
Interesting. I buy drinks from all 4 bars and haven't noticed this. How noticeable is the difference and was it just once or twice or have you noticed it consistently?

I have noticed it more often than the opposite.

But to be honest, I almost buy my drinks in the same bar, where the bartenders knows me quite well, also as a smiling and good customer.
My thai friends almost always go to the same bar, that is how I found out, and that is why I am a known face to the staff there. :cheers: