Beachlover
March 27th, 2011, 22:12
Lonely Wombat had a good idea to start a new thread on this positive topic and copy all on-topic posts into it so it can continue.
Don't know why he hasn't done it so I've taken the liberty to do it.
I've put all the on-topic posts before and after Smiles' hijack are below.
Friend currently in Thailand sent me the following link.It offers a monk for a month, homestay with hilltribes, volunteer english teaching plus guided tours.
http://fangvalley.com/
very interesting website.
Thanks, LW. Interesting website.
If you're into outdoors stuff, I highly recommend staying a couple of nights with the hill tribes there. I did the hill tribe homestay thing mentioned on the website a few years ago. Trekked from village to village staying with various hill tribe families. One of the most serene weeks of my life. The scenery up there is very beautiful and I suppose this way of living amongst the hills and subsistence farming is what life would've been like for most of South-East Asia decades or centuries ago. It was lovely to wake up each morning and look out over a river or valley filled with lush vegetation, maybe a few wooden huts and some rice paddies.
even for that you do not even have to leave BKK. The hilltribe ladies (and the very od man), some dressed in the original costume-they very quickly find out that just walking in 3d hand T-shirt does not sell much, walk all day trying to sell their trinkets-those are the multi-hatted ladies. They nearly all are Akha. if you can find out where they stay ( a dozen to a room of 120 bt) you can share the premises-in another room. Shan/Karen/Thai yai are in the 100.000 in BKK-a lot of them a bit illelag or semi-legal and from Myanmar=Burma.
That sounds lovely, Pong... Hmmmm, beautiful hilly countryside in Northern Thailand compared with bare concrete walls in Bangkok LOL.
You're right though, the Akha hill tribe people sell trinkets in a lot of the touristy areas of Thailand. Of the different tribes I stayed with the Akha were the friendliest. I heard the Akha generally the poorest tribe and the Karen are the wealthiest (relative to other tribes).
Hi,
I have also been there but was taken in there by the Rangers in Chiang Mai due to my connection with a lady working In bangkok for the BBC.
I am surprised Beachy that you got in a few years ago because where I went was a 'Royal project' and we went in with escorts and the entrance was manned by soldiers. Unless you went to one of the more commercial ventures because foreigners were barred from entering where I went.
This,although a Royal project was not the image Thailand wished to project to the outside World.
We stayed with them for the day,and they were in the stilted houses. The people were extremely shy and respectful,although very curious as to the outside visitors pulling up in jeeps!
The food was totally different from anything I have ever eaten and the 'chief' I met,was not more than 30 years old!
He had gained his rank and position,as he had been sponsored to the West and returned to help his people. His English was outstandingly good as was his educational qualifications,which he proudly showed us.
They aim of the Royal project was to stop them farming opium and to encourage them and assist them finacially to produce alternative crops.There were also a number of 'dependent' drug users in the village who were obtaining assistance.
It was a very interesting day out and a great experience.
Hey kquill,
Fang Valley isn't where I went. The area I trekked was North of Chiang Dao and West of (or the Western part of) the Muang Khong area right up near the Burmese border. It was near the Mae Taeng River.
I know a lot of backpackers go there. For the first few days we didn't see any other tourists in the villages we visited and the villages were only accessible by foot (some by motorbike). We stayed in a different village each night and had fun learning about the local culture/beliefs.
In an Akha Village, he told us of their mating ritual... when a girl likes a boy she throws a stone at him and then runs into the forest. The boy must chase her and can only have her if he can catch her! He said it was to ensure only strong genes were perpetuated. Quite the opposite to the gogo bar mating ritual!
Can't say much for the food. The cooking was pretty basic. Often it was just a case of some pork meat on skewers BBQ'd over an open fire. One night we bought a little pig off one of the villagers and invited the whole village (small village so only a few people) to a BBQ. They brought some locally made whiskey, which came in plastic water bottles... rough stuff!
On the last night we trekked into a big Karen village beside the river where there were lots of backpackers staying. This village had running water, electricity, little shops and some other mod cons (no hot showers though, just a cold river to bathe in). From that village we rafted back along the river on bamboo rafts (flipped one against some rocks on the way)
A bit of history to the area... it used to be a big opium growing/trafficking area called the Golden Triangle. My guide told us his Dad used to be an Opium dealer who became addicted and died of his addiction. He said opium is still grown in the area. One of the guys I was with was an Australian Army Officer. The guide told him not to mention his occupation because some of the locals apparently have a intense dislike for the CIA or whatever other American law enforcement agency used to be there and might get him confused for one of them!
Anyway, it was a great week and enjoyable to experience a more basic way of life.
Hi,
The people who I met were supposed to stay on the land allocated as strictly speaking they were not Thai,so therefore had no right to be in Thailand,except for on the area allocated.
This gets a bit ridiculous to accept when these guys are all over the markets and bars in Chiang Mai.
The older ones were going about their daily business but the youngsters were wearing football shirts messing around looking pretty much bored out of their heads and there were coke cans and other rubbish strewn around,reminding me of the great western influence.
It was pretty sad to be truthful,like an existance without a life. These guys are basically classed as non persons and the government only got involved via the Royal project to stop the illicit farming of opium on the hillsides.
They weren't leading these people by the hand or building schools etc although I am sure they will come up with some website now I have said this but that would be te exception rather than the norm.
On a different note,I have also heard that the long necked tribes were complaining that they have been turned into a tourist attraction BUT their complaint is with a lot of the revenue earned from the tours and gifts they sell,taken away from them in 'fees' by government officials. Sounds familiar!!!!
This is not the first time I have heard of victimisation of minorities and illegals in Thailand,its commonplace.
It was good to come away with first hand knowledge and a good experience to see and understand but I wouldn't go back to the Hotel/Bar and say what a fabulous day I had just had because that wasn't the case at all. It made you reflect is the best I can come up with.
There was no 'awesome' factor in it!
Hey Kquill,
Thailand doesn't seem to be the only country to push these minority tribes around. Burma does too. I went trekking and stayed with similar tribes in Vietnam too. I think the Thais look down on these minority tribes people as much if not more than they look down on Cambodians. They see them as another "problem" and "non-contributers" when they've got enough problems of their own.
In the area I visited, opium farming had obviously stopped, but my guide told us it was still going on in other areas. The villagers weren't affluent by any measure but they seemed to have a much better existence than what you described seeing in Fang Valley. Some of them looked REALLY poor and a little desolate but most appeared to have the basics. They had pigs, chickens, dogs and various little crops around the place. Some of the villages had electricity for certain hours of the day. The wealthier villages like the last village we slept in had motorbikes and such.
Most of the kids appeared to go to school. I think the biggest village had a school inside it for the younger kids. For the smaller villages I was told (and saw) the kids walked to another school in the area and stayed there for the week before coming home for the weekend, since it's too far on foot everyday.
I had a good time, but then it was meant to be an enjoyable experience, unlike yours, which sounds more like a media visit or something.
Nope,
It wasn't a media visit.
t happened that the lady from BKK was a friend of the Rangers boss, and went out of sheer interest.
The Ranger was checking on that all sides were sticking to their side of the bargain regards what was requied for the relevant aid from the Royal project.
Beachlover,
No big deal,we obviouly experienced different sides of the coin,although your point about many places being difficult to Aliens especially Burma,a great deal of these people come from Burma or it is their Country of origin,which many times Burma refuses to accept.
Also, Burma isn't a democracy is it,wheres Thailand claims to be. The superiority complex that some Thais have,is loathed by the Cambodians.
You're right there... And these minority hill tribes are far from the only minority group, which Burma treats inhumanely. Unfortunately, Thailand has to deal with refugees from Burma quite a bit... and unfortunately, there are reports the Thais aren't always humane about it either, such as the reports of the Thai Navy dragging boats without engines full of Rohingya refugees out to sea and leaving them there to die.
Don't know why he hasn't done it so I've taken the liberty to do it.
I've put all the on-topic posts before and after Smiles' hijack are below.
Friend currently in Thailand sent me the following link.It offers a monk for a month, homestay with hilltribes, volunteer english teaching plus guided tours.
http://fangvalley.com/
very interesting website.
Thanks, LW. Interesting website.
If you're into outdoors stuff, I highly recommend staying a couple of nights with the hill tribes there. I did the hill tribe homestay thing mentioned on the website a few years ago. Trekked from village to village staying with various hill tribe families. One of the most serene weeks of my life. The scenery up there is very beautiful and I suppose this way of living amongst the hills and subsistence farming is what life would've been like for most of South-East Asia decades or centuries ago. It was lovely to wake up each morning and look out over a river or valley filled with lush vegetation, maybe a few wooden huts and some rice paddies.
even for that you do not even have to leave BKK. The hilltribe ladies (and the very od man), some dressed in the original costume-they very quickly find out that just walking in 3d hand T-shirt does not sell much, walk all day trying to sell their trinkets-those are the multi-hatted ladies. They nearly all are Akha. if you can find out where they stay ( a dozen to a room of 120 bt) you can share the premises-in another room. Shan/Karen/Thai yai are in the 100.000 in BKK-a lot of them a bit illelag or semi-legal and from Myanmar=Burma.
That sounds lovely, Pong... Hmmmm, beautiful hilly countryside in Northern Thailand compared with bare concrete walls in Bangkok LOL.
You're right though, the Akha hill tribe people sell trinkets in a lot of the touristy areas of Thailand. Of the different tribes I stayed with the Akha were the friendliest. I heard the Akha generally the poorest tribe and the Karen are the wealthiest (relative to other tribes).
Hi,
I have also been there but was taken in there by the Rangers in Chiang Mai due to my connection with a lady working In bangkok for the BBC.
I am surprised Beachy that you got in a few years ago because where I went was a 'Royal project' and we went in with escorts and the entrance was manned by soldiers. Unless you went to one of the more commercial ventures because foreigners were barred from entering where I went.
This,although a Royal project was not the image Thailand wished to project to the outside World.
We stayed with them for the day,and they were in the stilted houses. The people were extremely shy and respectful,although very curious as to the outside visitors pulling up in jeeps!
The food was totally different from anything I have ever eaten and the 'chief' I met,was not more than 30 years old!
He had gained his rank and position,as he had been sponsored to the West and returned to help his people. His English was outstandingly good as was his educational qualifications,which he proudly showed us.
They aim of the Royal project was to stop them farming opium and to encourage them and assist them finacially to produce alternative crops.There were also a number of 'dependent' drug users in the village who were obtaining assistance.
It was a very interesting day out and a great experience.
Hey kquill,
Fang Valley isn't where I went. The area I trekked was North of Chiang Dao and West of (or the Western part of) the Muang Khong area right up near the Burmese border. It was near the Mae Taeng River.
I know a lot of backpackers go there. For the first few days we didn't see any other tourists in the villages we visited and the villages were only accessible by foot (some by motorbike). We stayed in a different village each night and had fun learning about the local culture/beliefs.
In an Akha Village, he told us of their mating ritual... when a girl likes a boy she throws a stone at him and then runs into the forest. The boy must chase her and can only have her if he can catch her! He said it was to ensure only strong genes were perpetuated. Quite the opposite to the gogo bar mating ritual!
Can't say much for the food. The cooking was pretty basic. Often it was just a case of some pork meat on skewers BBQ'd over an open fire. One night we bought a little pig off one of the villagers and invited the whole village (small village so only a few people) to a BBQ. They brought some locally made whiskey, which came in plastic water bottles... rough stuff!
On the last night we trekked into a big Karen village beside the river where there were lots of backpackers staying. This village had running water, electricity, little shops and some other mod cons (no hot showers though, just a cold river to bathe in). From that village we rafted back along the river on bamboo rafts (flipped one against some rocks on the way)
A bit of history to the area... it used to be a big opium growing/trafficking area called the Golden Triangle. My guide told us his Dad used to be an Opium dealer who became addicted and died of his addiction. He said opium is still grown in the area. One of the guys I was with was an Australian Army Officer. The guide told him not to mention his occupation because some of the locals apparently have a intense dislike for the CIA or whatever other American law enforcement agency used to be there and might get him confused for one of them!
Anyway, it was a great week and enjoyable to experience a more basic way of life.
Hi,
The people who I met were supposed to stay on the land allocated as strictly speaking they were not Thai,so therefore had no right to be in Thailand,except for on the area allocated.
This gets a bit ridiculous to accept when these guys are all over the markets and bars in Chiang Mai.
The older ones were going about their daily business but the youngsters were wearing football shirts messing around looking pretty much bored out of their heads and there were coke cans and other rubbish strewn around,reminding me of the great western influence.
It was pretty sad to be truthful,like an existance without a life. These guys are basically classed as non persons and the government only got involved via the Royal project to stop the illicit farming of opium on the hillsides.
They weren't leading these people by the hand or building schools etc although I am sure they will come up with some website now I have said this but that would be te exception rather than the norm.
On a different note,I have also heard that the long necked tribes were complaining that they have been turned into a tourist attraction BUT their complaint is with a lot of the revenue earned from the tours and gifts they sell,taken away from them in 'fees' by government officials. Sounds familiar!!!!
This is not the first time I have heard of victimisation of minorities and illegals in Thailand,its commonplace.
It was good to come away with first hand knowledge and a good experience to see and understand but I wouldn't go back to the Hotel/Bar and say what a fabulous day I had just had because that wasn't the case at all. It made you reflect is the best I can come up with.
There was no 'awesome' factor in it!
Hey Kquill,
Thailand doesn't seem to be the only country to push these minority tribes around. Burma does too. I went trekking and stayed with similar tribes in Vietnam too. I think the Thais look down on these minority tribes people as much if not more than they look down on Cambodians. They see them as another "problem" and "non-contributers" when they've got enough problems of their own.
In the area I visited, opium farming had obviously stopped, but my guide told us it was still going on in other areas. The villagers weren't affluent by any measure but they seemed to have a much better existence than what you described seeing in Fang Valley. Some of them looked REALLY poor and a little desolate but most appeared to have the basics. They had pigs, chickens, dogs and various little crops around the place. Some of the villages had electricity for certain hours of the day. The wealthier villages like the last village we slept in had motorbikes and such.
Most of the kids appeared to go to school. I think the biggest village had a school inside it for the younger kids. For the smaller villages I was told (and saw) the kids walked to another school in the area and stayed there for the week before coming home for the weekend, since it's too far on foot everyday.
I had a good time, but then it was meant to be an enjoyable experience, unlike yours, which sounds more like a media visit or something.
Nope,
It wasn't a media visit.
t happened that the lady from BKK was a friend of the Rangers boss, and went out of sheer interest.
The Ranger was checking on that all sides were sticking to their side of the bargain regards what was requied for the relevant aid from the Royal project.
Beachlover,
No big deal,we obviouly experienced different sides of the coin,although your point about many places being difficult to Aliens especially Burma,a great deal of these people come from Burma or it is their Country of origin,which many times Burma refuses to accept.
Also, Burma isn't a democracy is it,wheres Thailand claims to be. The superiority complex that some Thais have,is loathed by the Cambodians.
You're right there... And these minority hill tribes are far from the only minority group, which Burma treats inhumanely. Unfortunately, Thailand has to deal with refugees from Burma quite a bit... and unfortunately, there are reports the Thais aren't always humane about it either, such as the reports of the Thai Navy dragging boats without engines full of Rohingya refugees out to sea and leaving them there to die.