Health Insurance in LOS?

[Dodger]

Any advice on a good health insurance policy in LOS?

I will be extending my stays in LOS to 6 months per year beginning this year and want to secure LOS health insurance. I'm specifically interesting in a policy which covers everything from a toothache to open heart surgery...low or no deductable...which covers everything...no strings attached to the fine print.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

V, There are two, maybe three, insurance companies offering comprehensive coverage. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. Some plans that may seem to be the best value may not be. Talk to at least three brokerage companies in Pattaya. But which ever one you wind up choosing, try to use a broker who will go to bat for you when push comes to shove. Talk to all the folks you know when you get back here. There are a couple of reasonable choices in Pattaya.

The quality of health care cover depends on your age, pre-existing conditions and how much you are prepared to pay in premiums.

BUPA Diamond cover is adequate and costs me about 28,000 Baht/annum.

BUPA also does an add-on dental care package, however this is expensive and covers only a maximum of about 10,000 Baht in treatment (enough for a few fillings).

http://www.bupa.co.th/bupa_cms/en/home.aspx

[catawampuscat]

A poster on this forum, Traveller Jim, is an insurance agent and active in Thailand. Several farangs use his services and I haven't heard any complaints plus
he is a nice guy with a big heart and a genuine asset to the gay farang community in Pattaya.
There are other farangs in Pattaya in the insurance biz and it would be prudent to make additional inquiries. :cat:

A poster on this forum, Traveller Jim, is an insurance agent and active in Thailand. Several farangs use his services and I haven't heard any complaints plus
he is a nice guy with a big heart and a genuine asset to the gay farang community in Pattaya.
There are other farangs in Pattaya in the insurance biz and it would be prudent to make additional inquiries. :cat:


Hi! I am also looking for a health plan ...What insurance company in Thailand do you use?

[thonglor55]

BUPA Thailand (http://www.bupa.co.th/bupa_cms/en/product_comprehensive.aspx) has their "Sunshine" policy specifically aimed at 6 month stays - but it cuts out at age 70.

[Dodger]

Thanks for all your replies.

I forgot about Traveler Jim...he's a great resource

Thonglor55...Thanks for the BUPA link. This looks like a good starting point.

[puckered_penguin]

As part of your homework you might care to discuss with the insurer the cost of services at various hospitals in the region. 2 or 3 years ago BUPA gave its 'members' a price-list of overnight room costs for each of their approved hospitals. Bkk-Pattaya hospital was at that time in the region of 14,000 a night ( since lowered) compared to other hospitals such as Phyathai Hospital in Sri Racha which charges 2500 basic cost or 4100 per night including nursing and food etc.
As I guess all med. policys have a ceiling on how much they will cover a few nights in Bkk-Pattaya may get you to that ceiling quite quickly.

As part of your homework you might care to discuss with the insurer the cost of services at various hospitals in the region. 2 or 3 years ago BUPA gave its 'members' a price-list of overnight room costs for each of their approved hospitals. Bkk-Pattaya hospital was at that time in the region of 14,000 a night ( since lowered) compared to other hospitals such as Phyathai Hospital in Sri Racha which charges 2500 basic cost or 4100 per night including nursing and food etc.
As I guess all med. policys have a ceiling on how much they will cover a few nights in Bkk-Pattaya may get you to that ceiling quite quickly.


Hi,

Gents I had BUPA insurance plan. My agent was Jack Levy,nice professional guy based in Pattaya and I believe he still is.

I was told I had adequate cover and I had an Emerald plan,I think it was. Normally at age 43,I suppose it would have been.

Well,I went down as some of you know with throat cancer in a big way. The cover wasn't enough and I had to pay shortfall,so people should check they have adequate cover.

I,after Radiotherapy failed for me,was in Bumrungrad for over a month and had a major operation resulting in a total laryngectomy.

It was tough!... but thanks to all the Doctors and Nurses at Bumrungrad,an especially Dr.Peter Morley,Medical Director up there and a great Australian gentleman, I am stil here and this is my fifth year of being cancer clear!

It tends to put life in perspective and I don't get as wound up with life as I used to. :sunny: :sunny:

I was treated at Bumrungrad in Bangkok, it is ONE of the best you can go to. Room charges were very reasonable, nothing like the silly figures at Bangkok Pattaya, as I recall and care was outstanding. I would like you guys to know I was misdiagnosed TWICE at Pattaya hospitals,and treated for Laryngitis with Anti biotics,wasting over six weeks.

Dodger,you DO have to specify that you also want to be covered for out patient care,as well as in patient. :blackeye:

Bupa did have an office on the Sukhumvit Road in Pattaya.

BUPA and Bumrungrad Hospital in Bangkok have always served me well. Just make sure that you talk and do your policy with a registered professional who will ensure you get the coverage that you require. Bumrungrad has a very good International reputation with many people flying in from overseas for treatment there too.

[Dodger]

Thanks again. These are very helpful pointers.

I plan to call the BUPA PTY office when I arrive and make an appointment to hear all the options. I really like the sound of the BUPA/Bunrungrad connection, as Bunrungrad is touted as being one of the best international hospitals in the world

I just turned 56 and have no pre-conditions with the exception of a compulsive sexual addition for Thai boys which I will make every attempt to conceal during my physical examination.

[Hmmm]

Bunrungrad is touted as being one of the best international hospitals in the world

Sorry Dodger, but I doubt that any medical authority would claim BR to be one of the best international hospitals 'in the world'.

The reasons for that are many, but mainly that the best doctors can't earn a fraction in Thailand of what they would earn in any Western country or most other developed Asian countries. So most of BR's doctors are Thais, and Thailand's medical schools are not amongst the world's best. Many specialists have overseas training, but regulation of medical practice is not the same in Thailand as in most western countries. Nor does Thailand have the tradition of medical research that drives excellence and just 'keeping up to date' in the world's best hospitals.

Look at the way other institutions operate in Thailand. Don't expect that medicine is any different.

So get the best insurance you can afford (which will probably have exclusions and limits that your home country's insurers would not), but also assume that you may have to go home to get the best treatment if you become seriously ill, or require the best orthopaedic surgery for example.

[billy2bs]

If I read correctly so for about $1000 US annually you can get somewhat decent coverage It does not seem that it can be correct or even adequate. Here in my locale it cost about $7000 easily for quite adequate coverage at age 60s. I am sure it is less for those younger but the spread it too much I think unless you are paying out of pocket for a lot of other things should you need to go to the hospital ot doctor visits etc. What do I not see?

If I read correctly so for about $1000 US annually you can get somewhat decent coverage It does not seem that it can be correct or even adequate. Here in my locale it cost about $7000 easily for quite adequate coverage at age 60s. I am sure it is less for those younger but the spread it too much I think unless you are paying out of pocket for a lot of other things should you need to go to the hospital ot doctor visits etc. What do I not see?


Hi,

You are right. The BUPA insurances are on sliding scales of cover dependent on your type of plan and age. Diamond,Emerald,Ruby,plans etc.

The more cover,the more expensive and rising with age,year on year. Once you have had a claim on some area and the claim reaches the agreed limit in your polcy,that's it,that's all and you can't get cover on that again.

For example,I had throat cancer, I went over my limit as policy was not big enough,even though I had been told it was. After the limit,I had to pay for balance of treatment and all additional treatments including Radiotherapy,Doctors appointments,X Rays related to that condition.

Also,at renewal,that ailment is not covered anymore and is classed as a pre exsting condition and can't be included in your policy.

That's why it's vital to get adequate cover in the first place. :sunny:

[thonglor55]

Sorry Dodger, but I doubt that any medical authority would claim BR to be one of the best international hospitals 'in the world'.And your authority for such a claim, Hmmm? Your own ineffable sense of what's right??
Bumrungrad was the first Asian hospital accredited by the Joint Commission International (JCI), the international arm of the organization that reviews and accredits American hospitals. Their checklist includes over 350 standards, for everything from surgical hygiene and anesthesia procedures to the systems in place to credential medical staff and nurses. JCI sends a team to re-review hospitals at 3-year intervals. Bumrungrad was first accredited in 2002, re-accredited in 2005 and 2008.You will find that some US health insurers are now prepared to cover surgery in hospitals such as Bumrungrad (specifically named) for their US members who are prepared to travel (my own mother has had a procedure there covered by her US health insurer) - a little googling goes a long way, as our new member meeja has, apparently, yet to find out (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand-f9/and-ipads-t20790.html).

[Smiles]

Fair Warning: DO NOT READ IF YOU DISLIKE BEING PREACHED TO.

(That said) ... needless to say, the best insurance bar none is preventing yourself from getting sick in the first place. I try my best and in 4 years living here (most of the year) have yet to step foot inside a hospital . . . though I've been to a doctor's office twice for rather minor issues

Accidents happen for sure (and they happen more often in Thailand ... especially if you ride a motorcycle or cross streets on foot), but keeping yourself generally fit by exercising 3 to 5 times a week and eating and drinking reasonably smartly can help prevent waste a small fortune on unnecessary health insurance (and all-you-can-eat buffet) costs.

The obvious poor health (nonsensically overweight, coughing up phlegm all over public places, smoking like 2-bit whores fuck, drinking from 10 in the morning 'till closing time every day/night) of a very large percentage of farangs I see waddling the sois of Thailand is a huge profit centre for up-scale hospitals and over priced insurance plans . . . and an equally huge percentage of the visits are totally preventable.

END OF PREACH ...

[Dodger]

Smiles...not preaching at all, as you raise a good point.

I started focusing on the preventative aspects when I turned the big 50 a few years ago. I excercise daily and visit the gym on Saturdays for 2 hours with the weights (toning, not bulk), eat a strick "high-protein- low carb/low fat diet with daily supplements of whey protein and creatine monohydrate, a good multi-vitamin/multi-mineral supplement, fish oil w/Omega 3 and acidaphulous (for good intestinal hygiene). I'm on the ice every Sunday morning practicing hockey with a couple of other old farts who don't want to give up the game...and I don't consume alcohal at all when back here in the States working,

All-said-and-done, I'm doing what I can to prevent failures with the body - but I also want to do something to prevent bankrupcy when the time comes that I end up in hospital for some reason - and unfortunately, we all do at some point. That is of course unless we just kick the bucket before we can get there. From what I gather, I can pick up a pretty good comprehensive health insurance policy in LOS for about 2,500 baht/month (or possibly less), as compared to about 15,000 baht ($500/month) in the U.S. for the same coverage (with a multitude of loop-holes).

I guess what I'm saying is that both factors are important, i.e., good health practices and good insurance.

I'll be launching for LOS in just a few short weeks where my excercise routine will shift a bit. I will still go to the gym 3-4 times/week, do a few laps in the pool every morning and maintain the same high-protein/low carb eating habits, bend the elbows at the bar at bit more, although will replace the physical exercise I receive from hockey by doing 1,000 squat thrusts, assisted back bends, and feet-over-the-head yoga moves in the bedroom every night...555

By-the-way, a few holidays back I asked a group of farang friends (all expats) who routinely visit the same nightly watering hole if any of them wanted to join me at the gym a few times a week just for someone to partner with. After the roar of laughter and onslaught of jokes they went back to stuffing their faces with greasy french fries using their bellies as a table setting...go figure!

[Hmmm]

Sorry Dodger, but I doubt that any medical authority would claim BR to be one of the best international hospitals 'in the world'.And your authority for such a claim, Hmmm? Your own ineffable sense of what's right??
Bumrungrad was the first Asian hospital accredited by the Joint Commission International (JCI), the international arm of the organization that reviews and accredits American hospitals. Their checklist includes over 350 standards, for everything from surgical hygiene and anesthesia procedures to the systems in place to credential medical staff and nurses. JCI sends a team to re-review hospitals at 3-year intervals. Bumrungrad was first accredited in 2002, re-accredited in 2005 and 2008.You will find that some US health insurers are now prepared to cover surgery in hospitals such as Bumrungrad (specifically named) for their US members who are prepared to travel (my own mother has had a procedure there covered by her US health insurer) - a little googling goes a long way, as our new member meeja has, apparently, yet to find out (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand-f9/and-ipads-t20790.html).

Not sure why I'm replying to this, but here goes ....

1. I didn't say BR wasn't an OK hospital. I said it was not 'one of the best in world'.
2. Without going into chapter and verse, I attempted to outline why that was so.

One of the difficulties that people have in Thailand is negotiating the health care system. To describe it as a minefield would be an understatement. I offered my informed perspective in the hope that people don't place their faith where it doesn't belong. I know my way round the western health case system, to the extent that I know how to find out who is good and who is not in various specialties. But I am largely lost in Thailand, as I know that the criteria that one can rely in the west either do not exist in Thailand, or they don't mean the same thing. For example, an appointment at a university hospital or a big name private hospital usually means something in the west. In Thailand it may simple mean that you're the director's kid, with a medical degree from a second-rate university, which your dad paid to get you in to. And the new prosthesis that your orthopaedic surgeon wants to put into your knee, hip, or spine may be the one that the manufacturer is paying him $5000 a time to use, which can't get FDA approval in the US, and which reputable surgeons won't touch with a 40-foot pole.

Re JCI, the mere fact that they accredit 17,000 US hospitals simply means that they accredit lots of hospitals. It says nothing about whether BR is anywhere near the 'best in the world'. JCI accreditation (which is paid for) says mainly that your operating theatres are clean and that your doctors actually have medical degrees. That's good to know about BR, but I look for a little more when I need medical attention.

It IS possible to get excellent health care in the LOS for a lot less than one pays in the west; hence the rise of medical tourism, a market which BR aggressively courts. It's just a bit more of a lottery than in the west.

[ned kelly-old]

I agree with most of what "Hmmm" has to say, and if you are able, for any ailment potentially serious, then I would return to my home country. If for no other reason than the more precise dialogue that is possible (and essential in my opinion) with most western doctors as opposed to even the best english speaking medico's here.
To contradict this to a certain extent: I have a good friend in Australia who is a well regarded and respected orthopedic surgeon who told me that the general standard of orthopedic repair in Thailand was very good. He felt this was so due to the huge number of cases that they handled due to motorbike accidents! He was quite serious with this comment and stated that he had checked quite a number of 'Thai repair jobs' where patients on returning from their Thai holiday had sought reassurance. I don't know how many he looked at but I do remember that he said he had only seen one case where he differed with the treatment....he would have expected a lot more.

[Hmmm]

Ned Kelly makes a very valid point. Probably the single most important question you should ask any surgeon is "How many times have you performed this procedure you are recommending ?". Unfortunately the tendency for Thais is to ask few if any questions of their doctors. Young surgeons get their practice in public hospitals, under supervision. An experienced surgeon in a reputable private hospital or university hospital should have performed a given procedure hundreds of times and already made his/her mistakes. For common but technical procedures, he s/he should be doing at least several a week.

One would indeed expect road trauma surgery to be well-developed in Thailand, for those accident victims who actually make it to hospital. Thailand also has a good reputation in such niche procedures as sex re-assignment surgery, for obvious reasons, and is apparently also well renowned for penis re-attachment surgery ... due to the prevalence of drunken cheating husbands, aggrieved wives, and carving knives.

Gents,

All I able to add is that my full medical records of all procedures and treatments carried out by Bumrungrad were provided by them and given to Mr.Smelt,Consultant Surgeon at the Calderdale Hospital in the UK.

He read them and said he believed I had been extremely well taken care of, He also said I probably received better care in the timeframe than the NHS could have provided He even complimented the Thai Doctor,on the neatness of the operation.

I do take the points of other posters on the expertise of Doctors in Thailand,having as I posted earlier,been misdiagnosed twice in Pattaya Hospitals,which may have cost valuable time in my treatment.



Smiles,

I agree with preventative action being better than cure, it's common sense,however disasters can strike at any age.

They have just buried a World class footballer in the UK,Dean Richards at the age of 36,struck down by Cancer. Winston Churchill drank like a fish,smoked like a chimney,ate like a pig,did no exercise and managed to reach 92 years of age.

Closer to home,Mick Cockroft,my lifelong friend from Le Cafe Royale, was a non smoker,in is younger days participated in World championship cycle speedway,drank beer and that was in the evenings only,and walked nearly everywhere to his destinations around Pattaya. He died at 66 with a Blood vessel bursting in his brain. He had been a healthy and active man. I still miss him terribly.

Nobody believes that fry ups,all day boozing and 40 cigs a day is good for you, health insurance allows to be covered for the unexpected,with hopefully,a bit of peace of mind. :sunny:

[Jellybean]

Thanks for raising this subject Dodger; it has been preying on my mind for some time.

I do not have health insurance in Thailand, although I have lived here, off and on for 5 years. I use extended one-off travel insurance from the UK which covers my trips out here whether I stay 3, 4, 5 or 6 months. I had cancer 8 years ago and my policies exclude my pre-existing conditions. Like kquill I have also found that it changes your perspective on life.

I travel back to the UK on a regular basis to see my eye, dental and cancer surgeons for check-ups and treatment. I have taken the view, so far, that at the least sign of anything serious I can always return to the UK where I still have an apartment. I have used Bumrungrad, BNH and the Bangkok Christian Hospitals in Bangkok as an outpatient in connection with minor issues connected with my pre-existing conditions. And I have paid the bills for consultation, treatment and antibiotics etc., which have not cost me more than 3,000 Baht on each occasion.

I also follow the helpful advice offered by Smiles and am lucky enough to have one of BangkokтАЩs best gyms in my apartment building, which I use on a regular basis. IтАЩve never smoked and I rarely drink alcohol these days тАУ with the exception of special occasions, so my weight is under-control and little different from my weight when in my 20s. But as kquill so rightly says, serious health issues can arise at anytime despite taking all the best preventative measures. It did in my case.

In 6 years of travelling here I have never had any recourse to make any claim on my travel insurance policy. The question is, am I missing out in not having local health cover?

[Beachlover]

If I read correctly so for about $1000 US annually you can get somewhat decent coverage It does not seem that it can be correct or even adequate. Here in my locale it cost about $7000 easily for quite adequate coverage at age 60s. I am sure it is less for those younger but the spread it too much I think unless you are paying out of pocket for a lot of other things should you need to go to the hospital ot doctor visits etc. What do I not see?
It isn't cheap in Western countries. Here in Australia as a guy in his 20s I pay around AUD$2,000/year (about the same in USD) for top cover private health insurance.


I asked a group of farang friends (all expats) who routinely visit the same nightly watering hole if any of them wanted to join me at the gym a few times a week just for someone to partner with. After the roar of laughter and onslaught of jokes they went back to stuffing their faces with greasy french fries using their bellies as a table setting...go figure!
Dodger, you're doing today what others won't so you'll have tomorrow what others don't! They'll be dead or crippled long before you...

It isn't cheap in Western countries. Here in Australia as a guy in his 20s I pay around AUD$2,000/year (about the same in USD) for top cover private health insurance.

How are the insurance rates of a 20 something in Oz germane to this discussion?

[thonglor55]

It isn't cheap in Western countries. Here in Australia as a guy in his 20s I pay around AUD$2,000/year (about the same in USD) for top cover private health insurance.How are the insurance rates of a 20 something in Oz germane to this discussion?Because it's always all about Beachlover.

[thonglor55]

I agree with most of what "Hmmm" has to say, and if you are able, for any ailment potentially serious, then I would return to my home country.And for those who've decided to migrate to Thailand by taking up a retirement visa?

Which brings to mind the following story:

Prostate Exam...Thai Style..

After experiencing the discomfort and embarrassment of a prostate test on the National Health Service, a friend of mine decided to have his next test carried out while visiting in Thailand where the beautiful nurses are rather more gentle and accommodating.

As usual he was asked to strip off, he lay naked on his side on the bed and the nurse began the examination.

"At this stage of the procedure it's quite normal to get an erection" said the nurse.

"I haven't got an erection" said the man.

"No, but I have" replied the nurse.

[Dodger]

Hmmm Wrote:


Ned Kelly makes a very valid point. Probably the single most important question you should ask any surgeon is "How many times have you performed this procedure you are recommending ?".

And he replies..."Many times."

I think a better question would be..."How many patients have survived your procedure."?

[Hmmm]

I agree with most of what "Hmmm" has to say, and if you are able, for any ailment potentially serious, then I would return to my home country.And for those who've decided to migrate to Thailand by taking up a retirement visa?

Fair question. For those whose home countries have nationalized health schemes where one can get otherwise expensive surgery for nothing other than a nominal tax levy (albeit sometimes with a long wait), there may be advantages to maintaining whatever residency requirements are necessary to keep such privileges.

It would be interesting to hear how people have done this.

For those whose only option at home is to keep paying high private insurance rates, one 'should' be able to get equivalent coverage for a lot less in Thailand. But you may have to really do your homework to be sure you're getting the best possible treatment.



I think a better question would be..."How many patients have survived your procedure."?

Indeed. Doctors can bury their mistakes ... literally. But in surgery 'practice (usually) makes perfect'.

This week I signed up for this one: http://www.aprilmobilite.com/assurance/

Offered in Thailand by AA Insurance with 5 offices.
I think it's not the cheapest solution, but for me the best.
Will try them out for a year or so.

Of course you can deal with them directly and pay by credit card.

[thonglor55]

It isn't cheap in Western countries. Here in Australia as a guy in his 20s I pay around AUD$2,000/year (about the same in USD) for top cover private health insurance.How are the insurance rates of a 20 something in Oz germane to this discussion?When I wrote "Because it's all about Beaclover" I didn't realise that the Forum included verbatim confirmation of this truth. In any-other-country-f15/sex-tourism-for-women-jamaica-t20793.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/any-other-country-f15/sex-tourism-for-women-jamaica-t20793.html) Beachlover (or as we should now call him, Selflover) writes "I've slept with girls and enjoyed it but I think in most instances I was kind of more turned on by myself and her attraction to me than the girl". You couldn't make it up if you tried.

[chillnorth]

I don't maintain insurance in Thailand but do in the States. [pause for US bashing; ok, next topic]. Most years I've carried a low cost travel policy from a reasonably well-rated company specifically for medical evacuation in an emergency, which every health professional I've trusted tells me is the big thing to worry about if you're an ex-pat. I have a primary physician in the States and have shopped the various hospitals in Chiang Mai (and also Bumrungrad) for routine services because I'll be here full time in a few years - I'm here 75% now. I have had very good treatment here at a factor I recently read as 1/26th the cost of U.S. health care. If I need something huge and have advance warning, I'll head Stateside and hope not to die there. For anything less than that I'll stay in Thailand, even if I pay out of pocket, and will probably save a fortune, because of the deductibles in my US policy. I always have routine lab tests done here before going back for my annual physical and get faster service on the same tests for as little as 10% of what it would cost me there. My US physician is quite happy to use them. A few of the meds I need are not available here and are flown in.

My impression from discussion with others is that there comes a point in the LOS where one simply cannot get local insurance due to age... I'm happy to be corrected if that is an error. I'm roughly twice Beachlover's age and thus not qualified for Medicare in the States. [another pause; no defense for the broken US system but I don't have patience for retirees here on US government-sponsored plans who bitch about universal health care and to whom I submit a pre-emptive "fuck off"]. I insure privately. For purposes of comparison, in the US I pay just over two times the premium Beachlover quoted for a "name brand" insurer. I assume it would be cheaper in Thailand but if they have any screenings for the customary pre-existings of maturity I'd be out of luck anyway.

The specific differences I've noted in treatment here are the relative ease of getting an appointment and the unfortunate fact that I've never left a hospital with fewer prescriptions than the previous visit, even when well. When one is familiar enough with the system to know you can take the list of medications you get here to a reputable pharmacy for substantially less than hospital rates it cuts way down on costs. I do find US medicine is much more inclined to preventative measures than the Thai physicians and hospitals I've known.

Without wanting to enter the previous fray, I did watch and enjoy Matt's Rent-a-Rasta link and found it refreshing. I'm happy to know there are places in the world where older or unwanted women can haul their manky corridors for servicing and do not begrudge them the pleasures I've enjoyed with men of all races. I do have aesthetic stipulations regarding teeth, though, which is seldom a concern with charming Thai lads.

in most instances I was kind of more turned on by myself

I wonder if this is the self awareness he is always prattling on about?