Thai Culture - tangent from "scared of you " thread

[jinks]

many Asians don't have this concept that it's rude to stare.

Thai's used to have a good concept, it's rude to point, lost due to us farang polluting their culture.

How many other things have been lost as a result of us?

1. Pointing
2. Touching the head
3. Showing the sole of your foot

Please continue.......

Good question jinks, I would say that those Thais that have, shall we say been corrupted by working in sex establishments etc.. in places like Pattaya for a period of time don't actually lose their culture do's and don'ts it's just that they become more accustomed to the 'strange' ways of the visiting farangs and ignore it. If one is lucky enough to meet a boy who is new to the scene you will find thats his do's and don'ts are far, far different than those of the boys who have been around for some time. You might also find that on going to the home village of a boy he will very quickly, if he respects you, revert to the proper do's and don'ts and keep you politely informed of what is acceptable or not acceptable. I would also say that Thais might act totally different when around farangs than when they are with their own kind.

Matt living up in KK might be able to enlighten us more as both he and his boyfriend Kim are nearer to the same age group so he might have noticed or have learnt more whilst living there.

[cdnmatt]

Matt living up in KK might be able to enlighten us more as both he and his boyfriend Kim are nearer to the same age group so he might have noticed or have learnt more whilst living there.

I don't know, but all three things Jinks mentioned are still no-no's up here. Don't point, don't touch someone's head, and don't point the soles of your foot at someone. For example, we have a sectional, and sometimes Kim will by lying on his back watching TV. If I sit beside him, he'll always reposition himself to make sure his soles aren't pointing towards me. I tell him don't worry about it because I'm a farang, but he still does it.

Or one time I accidentally touched Kim's little brother on the head, resulting in a quick, "WTF are you doing" stare, which made me realize what I just did, and subsequently apologized. So yeah, Thai culture is still strong & going. It's just the prostitutes have neglected it in search of money, obviously.

Why you guys stay in Pattaya is beyond me. I have a 60yo, fat, ugly friend who has so many giks (boys / one-night stands) constantly calling him, he just simply can't keep up. And good people too, or at least far better than the whores you find in Pattaya.

[ceejay]

One thats so comonplace, you don't even notice it. Taking your shoes off before you go indoors anywhere. It's still de rigeur when going into anyone's house, and I've seen some shops where people still do (including one where there was a sign in Thai and English asking for customers to take their shoes off but mostly the custom is no more.

[cottmann]

One thats so comonplace, you don't even notice it. Taking your shoes off before you go indoors anywhere. It's still de rigeur when going into anyone's house, and I've seen some shops where people still do (including one where there was a sign in Thai and English asking for customers to take their shoes off but mostly the custom is no more.

My dentist asks clients to take off their shoes before entering, and provides slippers for them to wear.

I don't think these things have been lost......I think it's more interacting with a small group of Thais who don't bother with their customs around us, bar boys. In Pattaya if I'm around boys not part of the bar scene I see all sorts of things that I consider very Thai. One friend ALWAYS wai's when we walk past the temple at South Pattaya and Second Road, there's modesty, politeness (along with the ever annoying "up to you") and I always see shops on side sois where I know to take my shoes off.

Maybe if visitors took some time to learn what the customs are they'd actually be aware of how to handle themselves in a respectful way. I did my research on the do's and don't before my first trip and was also lucky enough to have a tour guide from Purple Dragon who, after I had asked, polished up my rough edges a bit.

I'm back in 30 days for a short trip and can't wait!

[pong]

even those very same barboys, so corrupted by the vice of the farang eventually go home, visit po-ma, and then in a sudden know all the traditional Thai rules very well. Even when they have to ask something fro big boss, they all know how to wai deeply/highly and speak in utmost polite language.
Other as that, there are also regional variations as to what is appropiate Thai behaviour.

After visiting Thailand many times and traveling extensively in the Kingdom there are two cultural norms that I have a problem getting used to. The first is asking a total stranger how much something costs from a watch to a car, the second and much more complicated is the concept of "Face".

After visiting Thailand many times and traveling extensively in the Kingdom there are two cultural norms that I have a problem getting used to. The first is asking a total stranger how much something costs from a watch to a car, the second and much more complicated is the concept of "Face".

The asking "how much" something costs isn't meant to be rude or nosey it's just the poorer Thai way of judging a persons wealth. Face is very much a South East Asian 'thing' and not just a Thai trait.

[thonglor55]

If you spend all your time with prostitutes in Pattaya what do you expect - "real" Thai culture??

[Beachlover]

Thai's used to have a good concept, it's rude to point, lost due to us farang polluting their culture.

How many other things have been lost as a result of us?
Good question, Jinks...

I don't think it's so much about them "losing" these cultural norms. It's simply a case of those Thais who have regular contact with Westerners, adapting to their ways. In the same way that if you were to host a group of visiting Chinese or Japanese associates for dinner you'd seek to adapt to their norms in terms of table seating positions at dinner and such and "lose" more casual Western approach.


After visiting Thailand many times and traveling extensively in the Kingdom there are two cultural norms that I have a problem getting used to. The first is asking a total stranger how much something costs from a watch to a car, the second and much more complicated is the concept of "Face".
It's also normal to ask how much you earn. This is less common amongst better off Asians but many of my relatives still have no issue asking how much I'm earning now as if it's the most normal thing in the world to ask.

There are some relatives I occasionally encounter who will pretty much ask that question before any other. Sometimes at a family gathering it's as blatant as this recent encounter at a funeral was...

- Another relative introduces me: "oh this is *****, he's your Father's Father's Brother's grandson...etc. he lives in Australia"

- Distant relative: "Oh nice to meet you *****, so are you studying or working?"

- Me: Working

- Distant relative: "Oh, so how much are you earning now?".

- Me: [*Stunned since I pretty much just met this guy for the first time!*]

I rarely get it this bad but I have an Indian friend who gets this sort of thing at his family gatherings all the time. He reckons they're trying to gage where you sit in the hierarchy of people so Combat is right in that respect.


Asking how much something costs is a very Asian thing to do. They'll do it with gifts too. In my experience, even the better off Asians do this. I guess there just isn't as much taboo talking about money.
True - It's all about class and hierarchy. Asians are more comfortable if they know whether they should be "looking up" or "looking down" to you and to what degree". Income/wealth is one of the scales (along with age, position, relation) on, which this is determined. They don't like this whole mystery thing where you meet someone in a bar and have no idea if he's a student, clerk or CEO.

When you interact with anyone, they're either more senior or junior to you. If they're your boyfriend's parents, a monk, a high up government official and such they are senior than you. If they earn more than you, they're senior to you. You look up to them and wai them etc.. If they're some poor security guard (regardless of age), younger than you, earn less than you and such, then you're more senior to them and they'll look up to you.

As the more "junior" person you should show respect and let the senior person decide on things and maintain face. As the more "senior" person you're expected to take the lead in making decisions, maintain face (don't do stupid things or look foolish) and pay for most things. Being more senior comes with responsibility.

For example, when I take my Uncle out for a meal or a drink he still gets uncomfortable when I try to pay for us. It was even worse a couple of years ago when he would flat out refuse to let me pay for anything. When I went to pay the tab at a bar where we'd had a few drinks he actually told the bar tender (who was wondering who's money to take) "he is a guest in our country, don't let him pay!" then turning to me, "You cannot pay! We are not in Australia!". Now he's gotten more used to it. He's my Uncle and looked after me a lot when I was a kid so even though he's my elder, I kind of feel I need to repay a debt and look after him, whenever I can.

After visiting Thailand many times and traveling extensively in the Kingdom there are two cultural norms that I have a problem getting used to. The first is asking a total stranger how much something costs from a watch to a car, the second and much more complicated is the concept of "Face".

The asking "how much" something costs isn't meant to be rude or nosey it's just the poorer Thai way of judging a persons wealth. Face is very much a South East Asian 'thing' and not just a Thai trait.


I have had dealings with upper class Thais and they are not hesitant about asking the price of something either! The "Face" thing indeed is more an Asian trait.....Some Japanese still commit suicide over the loss of a job, but from the vantage point of business it must be very difficult for anyone to admit fault, rather anti productive I should think.

[Jason1988]

Asians always question the price of everything and it's just part of their culture.

A friend of mine owns a business in Bangkok and has to train his new employees (Thai) not to be afraid of
dealing with foreigners (farang). It takes them (the Thais) a while to realize that we're just people too and that we're
not going to do anything out of the ordinary with the exception of our strange customs and bad manners.

[Beachlover]

Asians always question the price of everything and it's just part of their culture.
You're totally right, Jason1988... Asians are very value oriented. They're not shy to talk about prices and money.

If you go to a lot of top Chinese restaurants (I mean the ones the Chinese go to, not the Western-oriented ones) in Western countries you'll find the service in many of them can be quite abrupt. In Sydney, the restaurant, which arguably does the best Chinese food has some of the roughest and most abrupt service you'll see anywhere. They practically throw the plates and cutlery on the table and the serving is done very quickly. But their Asian customers don't care because their food is the best and THAT's what they're paying for. You can get lobsters, crabs, fish and a whole host of seafood fresh and live right out of the tank. And the standard of cooking is superb. I've never had anything cooked badly there... all the other stuff like service, "atmosphere", setting etc. is all fluff and worthless to them. They just want the best quality food.

When people buy jewellery in Western countries, the design is often their primary motivating factor. They'll quite happily buy jewellery with inferior/flawed gems/diamonds and made out of cheaper 18k gold if they like the design. This is how a Pitt St Jeweller in Sydney can sell a ring with a diamond worth less than $1k at retail for $12k. Compare this to many Asians who don't care about the design at all... they're just interested in the value of the materials and gems.

In some places in Asia, it's almost an insult to gift 18k gold jewellery. Only 24k gold is acceptable. Nevermind if the design is ugly and gawdy... they're only interested in its tangible value. Go to any of the gold shops in Chinatown in Bangkok and you'll see what I mean. There's nothing unique about the rows and rows of gold necklaces, bracelets and such. No beautiful designs... people are just in there to buy gold!

One friend ALWAYS wai's when we walk past the temple at South Pattaya and Second Road

The guy that I hung out with always did as well. I read up on the cultural things mentioned in this thread but I did lose my temper once during my first trip...a guy tried to top me without a condom and I was trying to explain this to a friend of his that spoke better English and I let my frustration come through. On my second trip (during Songkran), my Thai friend had a short fuse and I was totally calm and all smiles...he didn't like getting his nice clothing wet and totally went off a couple times.