This is why Thailand is so careful about foreign ownership

[Dboy]

I know it's frustrating, but there are some very good reasons to restrict the ability for foreigners to buy land in Thailand. With the combination of population growth and climate change, food security is going to be increasingly important. Thailand has a long-held (and in my view, quite enlightened) political agenda of self-sufficiency. HM King Bhumibol has given several speeches on this, and the article below illustrates the correctness of the policy:


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/22/world ... .html?_r=1 (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/22/world/africa/22mali.html?_r=1)


This is a New York Times article, and sometimes their articles eventually disappear behind their pay wall. If that happens you can probably still find it by searching Google for:

"African Farmers Displaced", and then selecting the *cached* link.

[Rene]

It comes as no surprise that in the first example the New York Times makes is of Col. Qadaffi of Libya buying farm land in another African country . At the very least, Qadaffi is the leader of another African nation. What is far more worrisome and which the New York Times article makes no mention of is the connection between Libya and China in this disaster. You can read about that here:
http://www.grain.org/hybridrice/?lid=212

If you really want to get scared out of your wits by what is happening all over Africa, you should worry about the Chinese who are descending on this continent like a plague of locusts with little regard for the local people. You can see an excellent report on the Chinese onslaught and rape of Africa here:
http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes ... 35575.html (http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/witness/2010/09/20109784210335575.html)

It is also well to note that the Chinese regard all other people as something less than dogs. Henry Kissinger understood this fact.

I know it's frustrating, but there are some very good reasons to restrict the ability for foreigners to buy land in Thailand.

I can understand the reasons too. For one thing, there would be a massive property bubble here if there was unrestricted foreign ownership and local people would be priced out of the market - similar to what happened in the west. The Thais are generally not great at financial management, so everyone would be paying rent to foreign landlords within a few generations.

One area that they should liberalize though is business ownership. The requirements for 51% Thai ownership and the bizarre rules about the number of directors are a godo way to discourage foreign investment and skills.

Thailand suffers from a serious form of Xenophobia. there are many countries in various parts of the world, some with a smaller land mass, where foreigners have brought up land, homes, and larger businesses which has in no way put the local population in danger. Their ridiculous law about foreigners not being able to buy a house unless it's this or that is just a joke. Most of these laws were brought in by military rulers to enable them to line their own pockets and has nothing to do with the eudaemonia of the people. The same can also be said, as mentioned by BeginnersMind, of the law restricting foreign Businesses of only being able to own 49%. I know of many very large International organisations that have set up in neighbouring countries such as Malaysia because of this law, losing Thailand a great deal of income etc.

[Beachlover]

there would be a massive property bubble here if there was unrestricted foreign ownership and local people would be priced out of the market - similar to what happened in the west. The Thais are generally not great at financial management, so everyone would be paying rent to foreign landlords within a few generations.

One area that they should liberalize though is business ownership. The requirements for 51% Thai ownership and the bizarre rules about the number of directors are a godo way to discourage foreign investment and skills.
Agree. I can see some justification for foreign ownership of landed property (though hopefully eventually this will progress) but the laws about foreign ownership of businesses are very inhibiting.


If you really want to get scared out of your wits by what is happening all over Africa, you should worry about the Chinese who are descending on this continent like a plague of locusts with little regard for the local people. You can see an excellent report on the Chinese onslaught and rape of Africa here:
http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes ... 35575.html (http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/witness/2010/09/20109784210335575.html)

It is also well to note that the Chinese regard all other people as something less than dogs. Henry Kissinger understood this fact.
Ah yes... risk-taking Chinese pioneers forging a new front again, this time in Africa.

The Chinese have a long tradition of journeying to distant lands to forge a new living and build their wealth through savvy commerce and hard work. I know small part of me originated in China so I'm sure a long time ago, one of my ancestors would have bravely made such a journey themselves. It must've been a lonely journey so wish I could've been there to urge him on, but evidently he managed to succeed on his own. There's something to be admired about landing in a new country and making a success of yourself as Bruce Lee did.

Over the centuries the Chinese have spread throughout South-East Asia. There are people of Chinese heritage in Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines, Cambodia, Singapore, Indonesia and more. And all over the world, from Europe to the US and Australia there are large populations of wealthy Chinese. They're renowned for being diligent and commercially savvy. I've sometimes pondered why they've been economically successful in every new land they enter. I don't like to think people carry an advantage in their genes. So is it something in the values and belief system they carry with them?

I haven't followed what's happened in Africa, but if the locals are willing to let them in, then good on them.

The Chinese can be a bit intolerant or ignorant of other people. They can also be a bit arrogant, fueled by their own meteoric success. But they wouldn't be the only ones to behave like this.

[Hmmm]

Thailand has a long-held (and in my view, quite enlightened) political agenda of self-sufficiency. HM King Bhumibol has given several speeches on this, and the article below illustrates the correctness of the policy

Can't quite see what your point has to do with one of the richest men in the world lecturing poor people to live more frugally ...

They're renowned for being diligent and commercially savvy. I've sometimes pondered why they've been economically successful in every new land they enter. I don't like to think people carry an advantage in their genes. So is it something in the values and belief system they carry with them?


I'm inclined to believe that it is something cultural too. Something else the Chinese are famous for is gambling. I knew a Chinese guy who built multiple businesses out of nothing. He had to build them out of nothing, because each time he would lose everything by gambling. Mah Jong, I think, was his thing. Anyway, I think the two are related. Entrepreneurs, like gamblers have high tolerance for risk. More gamblers = more entrepreneurs.

So I guess what the Africans need to do is open some big airport casinos to reclaim the money as the Chinese are trying to leave the country with their suitcases full of hard-earned cash. ;)

[Beachlover]

So I guess what the Africans need to do is open some big airport casinos to reclaim the money as the Chinese are trying to leave the country with their suitcases full of hard-earned cash. ;)
Heh... a marvelous idea. Are you Chinese? LOL


Something else the Chinese are famous for is gambling. I knew a Chinese guy who built multiple businesses out of nothing. He had to build them out of nothing, because each time he would lose everything by gambling. Mah Jong, I think, was his thing.
Oh god, I've heard soooo many horror stories like this amongst Asians. I'm extremely wary of gambling. The only times I've had a flutter I've always come out well ahead (though on small amounts). So if I wasn't more self-aware and hadn't heard all these horror stories I would probably be prone to gambling addiction myself. It all seems so easy.


I think the two are related. Entrepreneurs, like gamblers have high tolerance for risk. More gamblers = more entrepreneurs.
Hmmm... hate to say you may be right there. I like to think of entrepreneurs as "measured risk takers" but this is just not true in too many cases LOL.

It's not only the Chinese but also the Americans who Africa needs to beware of. This is a very good documentary which is well worth watching:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

[arsenal]

I am in China right now. The scale of investment (money to spend) is huge. Apartment blocks 25-30 stories high going up six at a time. Yesterday on a mile stretch of the Yangtze river I counted over fifty cargo ships laden with goods. If the Thai governmant would let them the Chinese would buy the whole country.

On another note. The Chinese boys are the most beautiful I have ever seen and their ratio of lookers is almost unbelievable. In twelve days I have seen more stunners here (in one smallish city) than in a similar number of visits to Pattaya. I must learn to speak Chinese. And the Chinese by the way are extremely friendly and welcoming.

[mj_87-old]

I am sure that the Yank bashers on the board will be happy to hear that the chinese are the up and coming world power. The chinese certainly would have done a good job post world war 2 if they had been the only country with the atomic bomb.

It sounds reasonble to me that countries control their own resources....or is that wrong thinking?

[Dodger]

Arsenal wrote:


The Chinese boys are the most beautiful I have ever seen

I've only been to China once...work related with no time to explore, although did spot a number of very cute boys in the mix.

What is the gay scene like over there? Is it OK to be openly gay there? Are there any gay venues in the larger cities? Are the boys in the smaller towns approachable?

Regarding Thailand being careful about foreign ownership: Hstory tells us (and tells them) that this is a very wise move. Countries who are driven by greed have little or no sense of value for other humans when it comes to increasing profits, and destroy other countries and cultures in the process without batting an eye. With Gengis Khan being out of the way the Americans and Chinese currently hold the top slots for being the greediest, and the Brits who have conquered or attempted to conquer every single piece of real estate on the planet are close runners up for third place. Understanding this very clearly, the Thais view us all as potential enemies of the State, and who in their right mind could blame them.

If you really want to get scared out of your wits by what is happening all over Africa, you should worry about the Chinese who are descending on this continent like a plague of locusts with little regard for the local people. You can see an excellent report on the Chinese onslaught and rape of Africa here:
http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes ... 35575.html (http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/witness/2010/09/20109784210335575.html)

and what were your fellow Francophones doing in Africa in the 19th and early 20th centuries?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0d/Amputated_Congolese_youth.jpg/220px-Amputated_Congolese_youth.jpg
A result of Leopold's colonialism, children had their hands amputated when they did not meet demands for the Belgians.

[Thai Dyed]

If you really want to get scared out of your wits by what is happening all over Africa, you should worry about the Chinese who are descending on this continent like a plague of locusts with little regard for the local people. You can see an excellent report on the Chinese onslaught and rape of Africa here:
http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes ... 35575.html (http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/witness/2010/09/20109784210335575.html)

and what were your fellow Francophones doing in Africa in the 19th and early 20th centuries?


Shortbread, it is very stupid to assume that Rene is of French ancestry just because he lists that as his residence and uses what most would assume to be a French name. Do you assume all the people who list their residence as Bangkok or Pattaya and use Thai names are citizens of Thailand? Huh?

[arsenal]

Dodger: I think there's a bit of a scene in the big cities like Beijing and Shanghai. But where I am, a city of "only" two million there is absolutely nothing. Of course that is not true, there is something, some kind of scene going on somewhere. I just haven't found it yet. But I will, when I can speak some Chinese. The Chinese are very friendly and will go to quite extraordinary lengths to help despite the language barrier. No one speaks a word of English.
As for the beauty of the boys. Well that has really taken me back. The number of absolute stunners (everyone has their own version of a stunner and I can only speak for myself) has left me speechless. I feel like I am in the middle of a sexually charged cryptic quiz and there are riches beyond compare if I can only crack the code. The times that some 10/10 on the beauty richter scale has yelled out "Hello" to me as I walked past tells me this.
Yea, pretty safe to say I like China very much. And the opportunities here for business are fantastic.

[Beachlover]

The Chinese... As for the beauty of the boys. Well that has really taken me back. The number of absolute stunners (everyone has their own version of a stunner and I can only speak for myself) has left me speechless.
Do you find the boys in China more beautiful relative to Thailand?

Perhaps in Thailand you're more attracted to the more lighter-skinned Chi-Thai (Chinese-Thai) boys. Thai, of Chinese heritage.


I feel like I am in the middle of a sexually charged cryptic quiz and there are riches beyond compare if I can only crack the code.
Hehe... the suffering.

[arsenal]

Beachlover. Not just the Thais but any nation I have visited. The Chinese are the most beautiful nation I have come across.

[mj_87-old]

Arsenal wrote:

With Gengis Khan being out of the way the Americans and Chinese currently hold the top slots for being the greediest, and the Brits who have conquered or attempted to conquer every single piece of real estate on the planet are close runners up for third place. Understanding this very clearly, the Thais view us all as potential enemies of the State, and who in their right mind could blame them.

Americans and Chinese as the greediest people in the whole whole whole world of all time throughout all history? It sounds like you are substituting your own predjudices for fact. I suspect a deluge of highly selective facts now follow in an attempt to bolster your own predjudices. Not very interesting.

[Thai Dyed]

...the Americans and Chinese currently hold the top slots for being the greediest, and the Brits who have conquered or attempted to conquer every single piece of real estate on the planet are close runners up for third place. Understanding this very clearly, the Thais view us all as potential enemies of the State, and who in their right mind could blame them.

I agree with Dodger on this point regarding the current era. What makes our own time all the more frightening is the sheer power of the destructive forces that exist and the ability to deliver them almost instantaneously to any point on the globe.

But as we move back in history, one cannot ignore the brutality of the Portuguese, Dutch, French, Spanish and Germans just for starters.

But given the current situation, there can be do doubt that America and China hold "the top slots" for this nefarious distinction as Dodger has so correctly stated.

[mj_87-old]

regarding the current era[/i]. What makes our own time all the more frightening is the sheer power of the destructive forces that exist and the ability to deliver them almost instantaneously to any point on the globe.
But as we move back in history, one cannot ignore the brutality of the Portuguese, Dutch, French, Spanish and Germans just for starters.
But given the current situation, there can be do doubt that America and China hold "the top slots" for this nefarious distinction as Dodger has so correctly stated.

I have to disagree with Dodger and you. I think Americans are some of the most kind and generous people I have ever met.
I think you misunderstand that your personal feelings are not statements of fact.

As for the Thais...they have every right to manage their natural resources as they see fit. If they do not want foreign people coming to their country to buy up whatever they have of value then that is certainly their choice.

[Beachlover]

I think calling the Americans, Chinese and British the "greediest" people in all of history isn't entirely balanced. Lots of other countries have gone out and colonised other lands and setup foreign enterprises. They don't get called greedy only because they weren't as good at it. If Britain hadn't colonised India and parts of South-East Asia, other European nations would have.

If Britain hadn't colonised India and parts of South-East Asia, other European nations would have.

And it's worth remembering that Thailand was left alone and not colonised because the Dutch, French and English agreed to leave it be so that it could act as a kind of buffer zone between them all.

Hong Kong one of the last S.E. Asian countries given back by Britain, actually thanked them for giving them three things, The rule of Law, Democracy and How to Queue.

[Hmmm]

It is difficult to determine to what extent the unique place of the Chinese in Thailand is due to something unique about Thailand, or external / legislative factors.

The migration of Chinese males to Siam in the late 19th and early 20th century was due to the relative poverty in China. It was not until 1911 that Chinese women were able to leave China. So the early Chinese settlers inter-married with the Siamese. Children born in Siam were given Siamese nationality, regardless of their father's nationality (something that didn't happen elsewhere). The Chinese were not allowed to own land, so they went into business instead of farming.

Those factors explain a lot, in particular the degree of assimilation. While the Sino-Thai element cannot be denied in Thailand, it does not seem to have the emphasis and friction associated with ethnic minorities in other countries.

It has been suggested that 1/3 to 1/2 of Bangkok residents have Chinese ancestry.

[Beachlover]

The Chinese were not allowed to own land, so they went into business instead of farming.
That's interesting. I didn't know that. They were really on the back foot then.


While the Sino-Thai element cannot be denied in Thailand, it does not seem to have the emphasis and friction associated with ethnic minorities in other countries.
From what I've observed, it does and doesn't...

I think the friction exists, but compared with other countries like Malaysia there are two things different: (1) many of the ethnic-Thais who are not as well off as Chinese Thais accept their "lot in life" rather than focus on resenting the Chinese-Thais. Obviously this only to a certain extent... there is still some visible resentment, I think. No where near as bad as Malaysia though.

(2) the Chinese-Thais have been quite successful in dominating both the economy and the government in Thailand. It's the same in Singapore (where there is little or no friction). But in Malaysia, where there is a lot of friction, the local Chinese only dominate the economy while the ethnic-Malays dominate the government.

I havne't looked closely enough at other countries like Vietnam, Cambodia, Burma, Indonesia and the Philippines to compare how the Chinese populations integrated there, other than to know they've been commercially successful everywhere.

I wonder if someone else here has better insight on this.

[Hmmm]

I think the friction exists, but compared with other countries like Malaysia there are two things different: (1) many of the ethnic-Thais who are not as well off as Chinese Thais accept their "lot in life" rather than focus on resenting the Chinese-Thais. Obviously this only to a certain extent... there is still some visible resentment, I think. No where near as bad as Malaysia though.

Buddhism has been suggested as an explanation for the lack of resentment in general. If you want a state-sanctioned religion to keep people from getting too uppity about their lot, Buddhism's a very good choice.



(2) the Chinese-Thais have been quite successful in dominating both the economy and the government in Thailand. It's the same in Singapore (where there is little or no friction).


Friction is illegal in Singapore.

[Beachlover]

Buddhism has been suggested as an explanation for the lack of resentment in general. If you want a state-sanctioned religion to keep people from getting too uppity about their lot, Buddhism's a very good choice.
That could be true.


Friction is illegal in Singapore.
Indeed LOL.

[dab69]

This is much the same way a message board is taken over
by the great many posts of fake Chinese?

This is much the same way a message board is taken over by the great many posts of fake Chinese?

And pray tell us 'oh wise one' how can one be a 'fake' Chinese?

This is much the same way a message board is taken over by the great many posts of fake Chinese?

And pray tell us 'oh wise one' how can one be a 'fake' Chinese?


[attachment=0:6j2f3n5e]038.jpg[/attachment:6j2f3n5e]

LMAO Scotty, sometimes I give up trying to figure out how your mind works, but I think it's better not to go into that LOL...