Condoms for oral sex, what's the hap in Thailand?

[Narakmak]

Are the players in Thailand using condoms in Thailand for oral sex, or not?
Why or why not?
If you aren't using them for anal sex, shame on you.

One of my partners once insisted on putting a condom on me before oral. I had to stop him after about a minute and explain it was pointless. Very little enjoyment there, that's why I don't use one for oral. It might be safer sex advice to use a condom for oral, but since no-one really will, it's not particularly good advice (like recommending abstinence).

I'd recommend
i) getting your HepA+HepB shots before you come to Thailand (you need a month or two for them to kick in).
ii) Have good oral hygiene - so avoid oral if you have bleeding gums or recent dental work
iii) obviously avoid if there are any cuts, tears or lesions in the genital area
iv) (somewhat controversially) if you're going to be seeing the same guy more than a few times, or offing a guy for a week, take him along for a HIV test in a clinic. They're cheap (300-400 baht). They're not 100% - so if a guy was infected 25 days ago, there's only a 50% chance it'll show up in a test (rising to 97% if infected 3 months previously). Also, recently infected guys are more infectious - so don't use this as an excuse not to use a condom for anal.
v) Use common sense - so be wary of Ice(Crystal Meth) users, ask if he has bareback sex(sometimes they'll admit to this), be careful if he 'looks' sick in some way.

Maybe others have safer sex methods for oral they can add too.

[Marsilius]

Last night in the show at Tawan bar, Bangkok, one of the guys had clearly forgotten the condom. He signalled urgently to a waiter, received one and put it on - and then participated in the skit (something about Roman emperors and slaves) without his cock doing anything at all (apart from staying hard thanks to a cock ring)! No one even sucked him in the scenario and he fucked no-one at all.

So why the desperation to rubber up? Did he think the HIV virus could somehow be transmitted through the air and infect him just because of his proximity to the other (fucking) boys on stage? Or is it simply a rule at Tawan that all boys performing on stage (apart from in the chakwa contest) have to wear condoms at all times?

You can't get HIV with oral anyway... but you can get lot of things.

You can't get HIV with oral anyway... but you can get lot of things.

Please paste any relevant sites where this has been confirmed by HIV specialists to be 100% fact. If you can not please take a hike as coming out with a CANT statement is very, very irresponsible to say the least.

[Narakmak]

That's just ridiculous. Of course you can get HIV from oral sex, more so for sucking than being sucked. It is just much lower risk than anal sex. It's also a good point that even if HIV is difficult to get from oral, unprotected oral does indeed expose you to other diseases that are easier to get, and having sex with active other diseases increases your risk of HIV. Also keep in mind there is a good amount of strong evidence now that being circumcised provides some protection from getting HIV, although I don't know if this increased protection is very relevant with oral. As far as pleasure, I don't agree that there can't be pleasure using condoms for oral sex, either role. Of course it's less pleasure, perhaps much less for many. Yes I have used condoms for oral but not all the time. In Thailand when I have suggested it the response from Thais is almost always positive (maybe the wrong word in this context)! In other countries including the US when I have suggested condoms for oral, sometimes the response is a real downer, like oh you must be positive or you wouldn't have brought that up. Strange, huh?

Do you have any REAL source that can prouve this ?

On this website - http://www.sida-info-service.org/ - they say you can't get HIV with oral sex.

And it's difficult to get it with vaginal sex, the most dangerous is anal sex.

Do you have any REAL source that can prouve this ?

On this website - http://www.sida-info-service.org/ - they say you can't get HIV with oral sex.

And it's difficult to get it with vaginal sex, the most dangerous is anal sex.

I don't speak or read French, if as you say the site also puts forward that it is difficult to get HIV through vaginal sex then are you, or is this site advocating that all or most of the women in the world who have HIV or have died from AIDS got it because they have or had anal sex? I've read some rubbish about HIV infections etc.. but your comments really take the biscuit!

[Narakmak]

Do you have any REAL source that can prouve this ?

On this website - http://www.sida-info-service.org/ - they say you can't get HIV with oral sex.

And it's difficult to get it with vaginal sex, the most dangerous is anal sex.
English links please. Why do you post such lies, BTW? It's bizarre.

From the CDC, among the best possible authorities on this topic.
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/transmission.htm


Can I get HIV from oral sex?

Yes, it is possible for either partner to become infected with HIV through performing or receiving oral sex, though it is a less common mode of transmission than other sexual behaviors (anal and vaginal sex). There have been a few cases of HIV transmission from performing oral sex on a person infected with HIV. While no one knows exactly what the degree of risk is, evidence suggests that the risk is less than that of unprotected anal or vaginal sex.

If the person performing oral sex has HIV, blood from their mouth may enter the body of the person receiving oral sex through

* the lining of the urethra (the opening at the tip of the penis);
* the lining of the vagina or cervix;
* the lining of the anus; or
* directly into the body through small cuts or open sores.

If the person receiving oral sex has HIV, their blood, semen (cum), pre-seminal fluid (pre-cum), or vaginal fluid may contain the virus. Cells lining the mouth of the person performing oral sex may allow HIV to enter their body.

The risk of HIV transmission increases

* if the person performing oral sex has cuts or sores around or in their mouth or throat;
* if the person receiving oral sex ejaculates in the mouth of the person performing oral sex; or
* if the person receiving oral sex has another sexually transmitted disease (STD).

Not having (abstaining from) sex is the most effective way to avoid HIV.

If you choose to perform oral sex, and your partner is male,

* use a latex condom on the penis; or
* if you or your partner is allergic to latex, plastic (polyurethane) condoms can be used.

Studies have shown that latex condoms are very effective, though not perfect, in preventing HIV transmission when used correctly and consistently. If either partner is allergic to latex, plastic (polyurethane) condoms for either the male or female can be used. For more information about latex condoms, see "Male Latex Condoms and Sexually Transmitted Diseases."

If you choose to have oral sex, and your partner is female,

* use a latex barrier (such as a natural rubber latex sheet, a dental dam, or a cut-open condom that makes a square) between your mouth and the vagina. A latex barrier such as a dental dam reduces the risk of blood or vaginal fluids entering your mouth. Plastic food wrap also can be used as a barrier.

If you choose to perform oral sex with either a male or female partner and this sex includes oral contact with your partners anus (analingus or rimming),

* use a latex barrier (such as a natural rubber latex sheet, a dental dam, or a cut-open condom that makes a square) between your mouth and the anus. Plastic food wrap also can be used as a barrier.

If you would like more information or have personal concerns, call CDC-INFO 24 Hours/Day at 1-800-CDC-INFO (232-4636), 1-888-232-6348 (TTY), in English, en Espa├▒ol.

Can I get HIV from vaginal sex?

Yes, it is possible for either partner to become infected with HIV through vaginal sex* (intercourse). In fact, it is the most common way the virus is transmitted in much of the world. HIV can be found in the blood, semen (cum), pre-seminal fluid (pre-cum) or vaginal fluid of a person infected with the virus.

In women, the lining of the vagina can sometimes tear and possibly allow HIV to enter the body. HIV can also be directly absorbed through the mucous membranes that line the vagina and cervix.

In men, HIV can enter the body through the urethra (the opening at the tip of the penis) or through small cuts or open sores on the penis.

Risk for HIV infection increases if you or a partner has a sexually transmitted disease (STD). See also "Is there a connection between HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases?"

Not having (abstaining from) sex is the most effective way to avoid HIV. If you choose to have vaginal sex, use a latex condom to help protect both you and your partner from HIV and other STDs. Studies have shown that latex condoms are very effective, though not perfect, in preventing HIV transmission when used correctly and consistently. If either partner is allergic to latex, plastic (polyurethane) condoms for either the male or female can be used.

For more information on latex condoms, see "Male Latex Condoms and Sexually Transmitted Diseases."

On this website - http://www.sida-info-service.org/ - they say you can't get HIV with oral sex.

We don't all speak French! In any case, I'd recommend you look at a balanced range of information that's available rather than rely on a single source that supports an offhand comment you made. I'd suggest a balanced view is that while it is possible to contract hiv through unprotected oral sex, it is very much less risky than unprotected anal.

[Narakmak]

Oral sex, it's low risk, but not no risk. You suckee the cock, you takee the chances. I realize most of us are going bare there, but I think the topic is worth discussing.

We don't all speak French! In any case, I'd recommend you look at a balanced range of information that's available rather than rely on a single source that supports an offhand comment you made. I'd suggest a balanced view is that while it is possible to contract hiv through unprotected oral sex, it is very much less risky than unprotected anal.

BeginnersMind is right, the chances are less through unprotected oral than anal sex, but to say it can't and to also advocate that it doesn't transfer through virginal sex its dam right stupid and very irresponsible.

http://www.aidsmap.com/page/1044877/#item1044881

Chances are very low by vaginal sex but you still can get it. That's all. You can fuck a girl who have HIV everyday for 10 years without getting anything, but you can also fuck her one time and get it. The odds are very low anyway.

No case of HIV contracted by oral sex have been reported, so i believe you can't get it by oral.

Most of HIV infections are contracted by ANAL SEX. Also if you have another infection like hepatities, herpes or whatever... the odds of being infected are really high, even with vaginal sex.

You guys really don't know anything this... you are just reading at "propagand" websites who tell you to be careful so if you get AIDS they wont have any problem.

odds to get HIV with vaginal sex are extremelly low if the girl don't have any other disease.
odds to get HIV with oral are nearly zero.
odds to get HIV with anal sex are very high.

You can drink a soup of HIV blood and you wont get it too.

You don't believe me is up to you, i readed a lot about this after having a problem with a condom.

But you still can get LOTS of diseases by doing oral, vaginal or anything else, so use a condom anyway.

You can drink a soup of HIV blood and you wont get it too.

Put him in a straight jacket your Honour and throw the keys away :headbang:

[Narakmak]

This isn't a big forum for vaginas, but anyone who knows even basic info about HIV in Africa (and Thailand) knows that the risk with pussies is very real.

Here's some interesting estimates on this -
http://www.aidsmap.com/resources/Estima ... e/1324038/ (http://www.aidsmap.com/resources/Estimated-risk-per-exposure/page/1324038/)


Estimated HIV transmission risk per exposure for specific activities and events
Activity
Risk-per-exposure

Vaginal sex, female-to-male, studies in high-income countries
0.04% (1:2380)

Vaginal sex, male-to-female, studies in high-income countries
0.08% (1:1234)

Vaginal sex, female-to-male, studies in low-income countries
0.38% (1:263)

Vaginal sex, male-to-female, studies in low-income countries
0.30% (1:333)

Vaginal sex, source partner is asymptomatic
0.07% (1:1428)

Vaginal sex, source partner has late-stage disease
0.55% (1:180)

Receptive anal sex amongst gay men, partner unknown status
0.27% (1:370)

Receptive anal sex amongst gay men, partner HIV positive
0.82% (1:123)

Receptive anal sex with condom, gay men, partner unknown status
0.18% (1:555)

Insertive anal sex, gay men, partner unknown status
0.06% (1:1666)

Insertive anal sex with condom, gay men, partner unknown status
0.04% (1:2500)

Receptive fellatio
Estimates range from 0.00% to 0.04% (1:2500)

Mother-to-child, mother takes at least two weeks antiretroviral therapy
0.8% (1:125)

Mother-to-child, mother takes combination therapy, viral load below 50
0.1% (1:1000)

Injecting drug use
Estimates range from 0.63% (1:158) to 2.4% (1:41)

Needlestick injury, no other risk factors
0.13% (1:769)

Blood transfusion with contaminated blood
92.5% (9:10)

You guys really don't know anything this... you are just reading at "propagand" websites who tell you to be careful so if you get AIDS they wont have any problem.

I don't disagree with you entirely. Some of the advice regarding oral + hiv is alarmist and many people seem to overestimate the risk because of this. Better advice, in my hardly ever humble opinion is that it should be touted as a great alternative to unprotected anal rather than something to be overly cautious about.

However, based on the stats I just posted, you're way off base on the vaginal intercourse thing. Way off!

Vaginal sex, male-to-female, studies in high-income countries
0.08% (1:1234)

So i have one chance in 1234 to get HIV by fucking DIFFERENT pussies without condoms.

Do you really think i will fuck 1234 different people ? In your life how many people will you fuck, maybe 100 for the most active of us. And in the 100 how many of them got AIDS ? Very little, maybe no one.

The odds to get HIV by fucking pussies are VERY VERY LOW. That's all. And as you see, even if your partner have HIV you wont get it "for sure". Just be careful with anal sex, always use a condom.

Insertive anal sex with condom, gay men, partner unknown status
0.04% (1:2500)

Well, i don't know how you can get HIV if you are using a condom... maybe because the condom can break ? There is no way to get infected by HIV if you use a condom.

Any unprotected sex with a complete stranger (bar boy etc., etc.) is fraught with danger and is entirely up to those involved if this is what they wish to do. To post on a forum that it has zero risk is totally irresponsible and should at all times be pointed out as that. If the poster 'ThaiLover' wishes to believe that all research papers are just "propaganda" then that is up to him, but please don't insult the intelligence of the rest of us!

I don't insult your intelligence but your ignorance. You can't get HIV by sucking or being sucked. The HIV can't pass inside your mouth.

The only way to get HIV with oral is having LOTS of blood in your mouth and then lots of blood on the cock. No one is going to suck a cock with a mouth full of blood.

Vaginal sex, male-to-female, studies in high-income countries
0.08% (1:1234)

So i have one chance in 1234 to get HIV by fucking DIFFERENT pussies without condoms.

Do you really think i will fuck 1234 different people ? In your life how many people will you fuck, maybe 100 for the most active of us. And in the 100 how many of them got AIDS ? Very little, maybe no one.

The odds to get HIV by fucking pussies are VERY VERY LOW. That's all. And as you see, even if your partner have HIV you wont get it "for sure". Just be careful with anal sex, always use a condom.

Insertive anal sex with condom, gay men, partner unknown status
0.04% (1:2500)

Well, i don't know how you can get HIV if you are using a condom... maybe because the condom can break ? There is no way to get infected by HIV if you use a condom.


Respectfully, you haven't understood the meaning of the figures. You'd do well to read the full article.

Also, as it is a Thai based forum, it might be more appropriate to use the low income countries figures.

Vaginal sex, female-to-male, studies in low-income countries
0.38% (1:263)

It's just because here have many more people with HIV than in France for example. That doesn't mean thai pussies are more likely to give you HIV than french pussies.

Your figures are not real anyway, how you can believe them as they are telling you that you can contract HIV with a condom ?

It's just because here have many more people with HIV than in France for example. That doesn't mean thai pussies are more likely to give you HIV than french pussies.

No, I think you still misunderstand the meaning of the numbers. It's an interesting question though - why should the rates of transmission be so much higher in lower-income countries for the same sex act. For once I'm stumped.

[Beachlover]

I think the "zero chance of getting HIV through vaginal sex" claim is bullsh*t. How many farang men have caught it from Thai prostitutes? It wouldn't spread through the straight population at all (except via needles) if this were the case.

I think transmission through oral sex probability is very low but still possible. Poor oral health or recent brushing contributes. Lots of other things you can catch too. I limit oral sex now. Don't do it with most one night stands.

I would, however, like to know how transmission is possible for male-male anal sex WITH a condom... how is this possible?

It's bullshit, the real odds are more like 1 chance of 10 000... straigt population do anal too... in fact when i take a girl i only fuck her ass, i don't like pussies. Don't think only gays like to do anal, it's bullshit.

[Beachlover]

Someone a bit more rational sounding please come up with some credible research... BeginnersMind? LOL

I would, however, like to know how transmission is possible for male-male anal sex WITH a condom... how is this possible?

AFAIK, this covers the probability of failure of the condom (breaking), improper use of the condom, or simply the failure to actually use a condom by a study participant.

I've also heard some say that oil can weaken the structure of a condom and cause it to become permeable to hiv. Sounds like nonsense to me though, I'd guess either the oil breaks the condom or it doesn't. Haven't seen any studies on that part of it, although oil use with a condom is definitely less safe and not recommended.

Anyway thanks for saying that I am 'rational sounding'! I'm not the former surgeon general or anything, but I can usually do a decent analysis with some research.

It's bullshit, the real odds are more like 1 chance of 10 000... straigt population do anal too... in fact when i take a girl i only fuck her ass, i don't like pussies. Don't think only gays like to do anal, it's bullshit.

I think you're information is a bit out of date. My understanding is that the newer strains of HIV are much more transmissible by vaginal sex than the old ones used to be. 20 years ago, maybe people were only getting it from anal, but today that is not the case.

[Narakmak]

I recently heard in South Africa, 1000 people per day, yes per day, are dying of Aids. Presumably, most from heterosexual sex.

I recently heard in South Africa, 1000 people per day, yes per day, are dying of Aids. Presumably, most from heterosexual sex.

Didn't you read ThaiLover's posts it's nearly impossible to get it through vaginal sex, African women just love it in the ass then pass it on to the hetro-men who only like giving it in the ass.

African people fuck arround with everyone, always unprotected, no hygiene, lots of STDs, and even in the worst place in the world only 25% of them are infected. Sounds like nothing to me.

I always use a condom for everything, even for oral. Not because of HIV but because of herpes, hepatities, siphilis and so on... The only way to stop me for use the condom it would be a secure relationship and a full test at the clinic after 3 months using the condom with that person. And as i'm bisexual, actually with a girl, i wont have a "secure" relation with a guy, that's mean only condom for both of us as i don't trust anyone.

I'm just saying to you guys, if you are only worry about HIV for oral sex, stop using the condoms, this wouldn't help you. If you are worry (like me) about anything else, then use a condom for everything until you are sure at 99% that your partner is safe and clean.

Just remember, it's DIFFICULT to get HIV, even if you fuck without a condom with someone who have HIV. You still have A LOT more chances to don't contract the infection. Check the odds, even at 1:100 you still can fuck 100 times and you will get it only once. Well, this is statistics, you can get it the first time too, so use a condom. And it's different from people, some people have a very "powerful" HIV and you will always get it and some have a very "weak" HIV. Depends also if you fuck for 15 secs or for 3 hours, depends if you are rude or not and have some blood or not. If you are the kind of guy with a huge cock fucking a small ass who always get hurt and bleed and fuck for hours, you have more chances to get the HIV.

[kittyboy]

You can't get HIV with oral anyway... but you can get lot of things.

I suspect that thailover is a troll trying to provoke postings.

[Impulse]

suspect that thailover is a troll trying to provoke postings.
I think he makes some very good points.The only thing he's wrong about is hetero transmission.
Oral risk is almost non-existant.But,more dangerous than hiv from oral is hpv.Oral sex without a condom might be a good idea for some ,if it makes them stop having anal sex. There is a thing called 'condom fatigue'.Where people get so fed up with using condoms that they abandon them entirely.Then engage in dangerous anal sex without a rubber.
Better for some to not use a condom for oral,and have some fun,and use a condom just for anal or vaginal.better than not using protection at all.
I think many groups give out bad advice by saying there is risk in oral.Some who listen to this will end up not using protection at all.Better to say that oral is very low risk,but always use a rubber for anal or vaginal sex,the two modes of almost all transmission.

It's a difference by having sperm in the mouth and suck... sorry if you don't see that.

To be sucked is not considered a risky practice unless you are participating in group sex

It may be risky (or it may be not)

All the experts on that forum say it's not risky at all.

They need to be protected in case of infection so on the main website you can read it's "MAYBE" risky.

[gregvc]

take a trip to the clinic run by the Red Cross near Silom or HIVNAT. Undoubtedly you will see some of the boys from the nightspots as well as professionals etc. The thai govt thru the GPO makes drugs for a small minoroity of those infected but atleast guys don't have the gaunt look that haunted people in the 90's. Anyway, the trip will give you a dose of reality. Assume all have HIV and practice safe sex.

[chillnorth]

In your life how many people will you fuck, maybe 100 for the most active of us.

Huh? Are you writing from some sort of Shaker Retreat House? There are people on this board who have fucked over 100 people without leaving the airport.

But,more dangerous than hiv from oral is hpv.

Really, HPV? You don't mean HEP B?

I'd always understood HPV to be more of a risk for women -
http://www.hpvhealth.net/blog/category/hpv-information/


But the good news is that the vast majority of the 250 recognised strains of HPV cause no symptoms, signs or illness and our immune system works to destroy the infection with no side effects. However, medical researchers have isolated 15 strains of the virus that can lead to serious health risks.

When it comes to the consequences of HPV, men are relatively fortunate because the most serious strains of HPV can lead to cervical cancer and death in women. Every year around 3000 to 4000 women die from cervical cancer, and in 70% of these cases, the cancer is directly related to HPV.

[Beachlover]

African women just love it in the ass then pass it on to the hetro-men who only like giving it in the ass.
LOL

[Impulse]

I'd always understood HPV to be more of a risk for women -
http://www.hpvhealth.net/blog/category/hpv-information/ No,it's a big problem for gay men.If you read that link,it's says that gay men have serious problems with hpv.It said to talk to your doctor.
Gay men can get penile and anal,throat and neck,head cancers from the cancerous strains.Hope you have a gay friendly doc though,as most are very dismissive of the problem.Mine refuses to give me Gardisel,granted,he is not a gynacologist.
They want to expand Gardesel to boys,not just girls.What does this say?

Gay men can get penile and anal,throat and neck,head cancers from the cancerous strains.Hope you have a gay friendly doc though,as most are very dismissive of the problem.Mine refuses to give me Gardisel,granted,he is not a gynacologist.

Interesting stuff, thanks. Here's a link on Gardisil use in men.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardasil#Use_in_males

I wonder if it is available in Thailand?

[TravellerDave]

This is a topic which always attracts my attention. These days condoms for anal sex is a must for me, both giving and receiving, but not for oral. I have hardly ever encountered a boy who wanted me to use a condom when he sucked me. I love sucking cocks myself especially the spurt of cum. However I always wash my mouth out with listerine, although I'm dubious if this does any good.
A danger for me always used to be in the early morning when I was carried by desire and ommitted the condom, but that wouldnt happen now.