Ecuador? Specifically Cuenca

[Narakmak]

Anyone been there? I am thinking about Ecuador as an alternative to retiring in Thailand (where I live now). From what I can gather, residency visas are real easy (either a low pension or buy real estate only 25K USD), the money is the US dollar (so no issues with currency degradation for Americans), and some places are very pleasant. It isn't exactly a gay paradise, but that isn't everything, and like South Africa gays are protected in their constitution. From my research, the most popular places for gays are Quito and coastal Guayaquil. Quito is out for me, it's super high crime, and although I'd like to check out Guayaquil, I don't think I would like it, it sounds super steamy hot even compared to Thailand. The place that sounds most appealing is Cuenca, a medium sized colonial city in the mountains with a very moderate climate. It is attracting western expats (one percent of the population) and there is a bit of a counterculture aspect to the expat scene. The real estate prices sound attractive, something livable starting at 50K USD. There appears to be maybe one gay bar but there's always websites, etc. to meet local gay people. It sounds a bit Chiang Mai-ey but much at an earlier stage of foreign tourist/expat corruption (not to mention Spain from the colonial times). So anyone been to these places?

http://www.cuencahighlife.com/

[Beachlover]

Interesting... Tell us what you find out.

Anyone know much about the other South American countries? Namely, Brazil, Peru (Lima, Cusco), Argentina and Bolivia? It seems to be harder to find info about gay life/amenities/venues in these places than it is to find the same info on most Asian countries. Even useful links would be nice.

[Narakmak]

Interesting... Tell us what you find out.

Anyone know much about the other South American countries? Namely, Brazil, Peru (Lima, Cusco), Argentina and Bolivia? It seems to be harder to find info about gay life/amenities/venues in these places than it is to find the same info on most Asian countries. Even useful links would be nice.
I know quite a bit but too lazy to say everything right now. I have been to Argentina, Brazil, and Peru.

Retirement visas available in Brazil. Pension requirements high, more than the maximum US social security benefit. Brazil gay life is of course stellar in the big cities.

Retirement visas available in Argentina. Pension requirements low but threatening to change radically soon (likely similar to Brazil). "Other outside income" option, rather high. Buenos Aires is very gay. Marriage legal.

Peru. No retirement visas. Lima gay nightlife limited. However, on my visit there I met an upper class young man from a website and had the sweetest travel romance of my life.

Columbia is becoming a lot more popular (and also safer) but no retirement visa options as yet.

Central America, Nicaragua has low visa requirements and is attracting a lot of expats to Grenada and the coast. For some reason, I am not really into Central America, based on my visit to Costa Rica, which didn't really do much for me.

[Beachlover]

Cool - Thanks! I'm a fair way off retirement so mainly interested in what the gay life, gay nightlife and gay boys are like in those countries.

I've heard Rio De Janeiro and other Brazilian cities have a fair bit of gay nightlife. Lima (Peru) has quite a few gay bars, not sure if there are any clubs/discos. Argentina, I haven't checked out yet.

Any gay scene/nightlife in Bolivia? That's one place I'd like to visit.

Any gay scene/nightlife in Chile? Haven't heard anything gay about Chile.

Columbia seems to be opening up but I've heard it's still pretty messed up in some respects. Someone told me most people go there to do drugs because cocaine etc. is so cheap there (don't know how true this is). I've heard Venezuela is not a good place to visit.

[bjbjboy]

I spent 6 days in Quito 2 years ago, it's one of the more beautiful cities in Latin America, it's high in the mountains--so climate is excellent. I also lived in Guatemala City for a year in 1996, just after the Civil War ended. Similar weather--cool but never snow, also rarely blazing hot. Think BKK in Dec/Jan.

As for Quito, I actually really liked it. Incredibly cheap prices, even though it's in USD. There are a few large shopping malls, cinemas, etc. City center is a UNESCO site, pretty cool old buildings. But yeah, not soooo much to do if you're living there. That said, let's just say I was VERY popular there; very few Western tourists hang out in Quito, so you'd have a good chance at finding someone.... also went to a couple of sex clubs kinda near downtown/Hilton Hotel; it was small but quite active!
I've been to Rio, Buenos Aires, San Jose, Panama City (LOTS of retirees there!), and Mexico City (also nice weather, great food, and actually not as dangerous as reported for tourists). Let me know if you have any more questions.

[Narakmak]

If you're looking for a Pattaya like commercial scene, check out the saunas in Rio and Sao Paulo. The same thing also in Buenos Aires and one or two places in Lima, but Brazil more so.

I did find some more info about gay aspects of Cuenca. Historically this is a small conservative city but also known as an intellectual/artist/poets center the "Athens" of Ecuador. The colonial downtown area is known to be more gay. In 1998 there was a violent bust of a gay bar there and this event is referred to as the "Stonewall" event of Ecuador, and it happened in Cuenca. The general public responded to this event with increased support for the gays rather than the police. I have read reports that there is tolerance for differences there, but San Francisco (or Quito even) it's not. Too bad there isn't gay marriage there, because in Ecuador marrying an Ecuadorian gives you instant citizenship.

Some listings --

http://es.answers.yahoo.com/question/in ... 425AACtfFL (http://es.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100410221425AACtfFL)

BTW, this is totally subjective but in my own experience, I found the people of Brazil more open to making friends with foreigners than Argentinians. I love Argentina but at least in B.A. found them not really interested in foreigners and I was there for a long stay, more than a tourist. However, Spanish is easier to learn than Portuguese, but if you have to learn Portuguese Brazilian Portuguese is so much livelier than the old country stuff.

[Narakmak]

OMG,

An army of boys and young men parading in womenтАЩs clothes


http://www.cuencahighlife.com/post/2010 ... olano.aspx (http://www.cuencahighlife.com/post/2010/01/06/Thousands-of-men-in-drag-and-other-strangeness-highlight-Cuencae28099s-Day-of-the-Innocents-celebration-tonight-on-Av-Solano.aspx)

[Beachlover]

BTW, this is totally subjective but in my own experience, I found the people of Brazil more open to making friends with foreigners than Argentinians. I love Argentina but at least in B.A. found them not really interested in foreigners and I was there for a long stay, more than a tourist. However, Spanish is easier to learn than Portuguese, but if you have to learn Portuguese Brazilian Portuguese is so much livelier than the old country stuff.

Cool... Thanks for the info.

Crap, I can't read Spanish or Portuguese :(.

Do many of the boys in Brazil (Rio and Sao Paulo) speak any English? Are they sociable place like gay clubs and discos where you can meet local gay boys (non commercial)? What sort of places are good? I know it's easy to meet money boys in the saunas.

[Narakmak]

BTW, this is totally subjective but in my own experience, I found the people of Brazil more open to making friends with foreigners than Argentinians. I love Argentina but at least in B.A. found them not really interested in foreigners and I was there for a long stay, more than a tourist. However, Spanish is easier to learn than Portuguese, but if you have to learn Portuguese Brazilian Portuguese is so much livelier than the old country stuff.

Cool... Thanks for the info.

Crap, I can't read Spanish or Portuguese :(.

Do many of the boys in Brazil (Rio and Sao Paulo) speak any English? Are they sociable place like gay clubs and discos where you can meet local gay boys (non commercial)? What sort of places are good? I know it's easy to meet money boys in the saunas.
Sure some people speak English and more likely among younger people. My experiences were subjective. I enjoyed the saunas in Rio very much. In my limited exposure to the club scene, I found openness and friendliness, but frankly, some of those guys were open or stealth MBs. Brazilians know their language is difficult, so like Thais, they mostly don't really expect foreigners to speak it.

I did check out the bar/club scene more in B.A. Very cliquish and not open to new people. I went to one very famous cruise/sex club (not a sauna, kind of a bar with secret places) and I must say that was the most depressing gay club I have been to in my entire life. Argies, knowing Spanish is pretty easy, are much more likely to expect you to speak Spanish and not so tolerant of people not able to do so.

If you are in your 20's and cute/hot, you will have a good time anywhere, of course.

For either country, I would highly suggest doing a quick beginners Pimsler's type course to have basic tourist language.

[Beachlover]

Sure some people speak English and more likely among younger people. My experiences were subjective. I enjoyed the saunas in Rio very much. In my limited exposure to the club scene, I found openness and friendliness, but frankly, some of those guys were open or stealth MBs. Brazilians know their language is difficult, so like Thais, they mostly don't really expect foreigners to speak it.
Sweet... that's great if the younger Brazilians are more likely to speak some English. The thing that puts me off saunas in Rio is I've heard it's pretty much ALL money boys in there. Pretty much a brothel. Kind of like the opposite to Saunas in Thailand huh?


I did check out the bar/club scene more in B.A. Very cliquish and not open to new people. I went to one very famous cruise/sex club (not a sauna, kind of a bar with secret places) and I must say that was the most depressing gay club I have been to in my entire life. Argies, knowing Spanish is pretty easy, are much more likely to expect you to speak Spanish and not so tolerant of people not able to do so.
Thanks for the heads up about the people in Buenos Aires/Argentina... I know you can get depressed if people aren't friendly and you don't realise there's a reason. In Malaysia I my self-esteem took a bit of a blow when I wasn't having any luck chatting up cute Malay boys. I later found out the Ethnic-Malays are a bit hostile towards Chinese-looking Asians because the local Chinese population looks down on the ethnics... race tensions.

[Narakmak]

Yes, this is so subjective. I had a great time in KL with both the Malays and the Chinese.
I wouldn't say Argies are unfriendly, it's just they mostly seemed to be interested in their own worlds. I don't blame them for that.
Yes I found the Brazil saunas very commercial indeed, that's the place to go for that. Interestingly, the owners/clerk staff were very rude, but who cares.
I think in B.A. there are saunas that are not commercial.

[Beachlover]

Yeah, for me in KL, Chinese were fine, but the Malays were not so nice LOL. They probably thought I was one of the local Chinese-Malays and not a foreigner (who doesn't look down on them with the prejudice, which the locals do).

Are there any non-commercial gay saunas in Rio?

What gay bars and clubs would you recommend visiting in Rio and other Brazilian cities?

[Narakmak]

Yeah, for me in KL, Chinese were fine, but the Malays were not so nice LOL. They probably thought I was one of the local Chinese-Malays and not a foreigner (who doesn't look down on them with the prejudice, which the locals do).

Are there any non-commercial gay saunas in Rio?

What gay bars and clubs would you recommend visiting in Rio and other Brazilian cities?
It's been some years so best to look up current listings on the net. The best info may not be in English but there's always google translate. I didn't notice any non-commercial saunas in Rio when I was there, but worth a try to look.

[lonelywombat]

If you want to discuss more about Brazil, the forums on this site are excellent.

http://www.gaytravelbrazil.com

[Narakmak]

Also note, if budget is an issue, Brazilian reis are strong, Argie pesos are still weak. You do the math.

[Beachlover]

If you want to discuss more about Brazil, the forums on this site are excellent.http://www.gaytravelbrazil.com
Thanks... I've been there before but assumed it was a defunct site because all I could see is a few buttons on the left. I just opened it in Firefox and can actually see it properly now. It turns out the site doesn't load properly in the Chrome browser.


Also note, if budget is an issue, Brazilian reis are strong, Argie pesos are still weak. You do the math.
Yeah, I've heard the Brazilian economy has been growing healthily in recent years. I think most things will be easily affordable. Only thing, which irks me is the cost of accommodation in Rio De Janeiro - It's rape!

Compare the Sofitel in Bangkok ($100-$150/night) to the Sofitel in Rio ($550 to $700/night)... bummer.

[Narakmak]

Brazil these days I think is more expensive than Thailand with most western currencies. Part of the fun for me in a place like Argentina is feasting on world class steak and red wine for under 10 dollars.

[Beachlover]

Part of the fun for me in a place like Argentina is feasting on world class steak and red wine for under 10 dollars.
$10!? Price makes me throw up! Just paid $130/person for the same thing at an Argentinian restaurant here in Sydney - woodfired lamb and suckling pig ($48/dish) and a bottle of Argentinian red ($140)... Damn Sydney prices!

[Narakmak]

At the one gay disco in Cuenca, weekends only, there is no sign, you must knock on the glass door for entry. How exciting!



[youtube:2ljjvx85]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrvGFst-N2w[/youtube:2ljjvx85]

They even have a gay film festival.

Festival Annual de Cine de la Diferencia: This annual film festival focuses on the international gay culture.