Transforming into a money boy

[Beachlover]

Edit: I posted this on another forum and made some edits/improvements in the process so have updated this version with the better edited one.
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How a boy turns into a money boy

Have you ever watched a Thai boy you knew as innocent and genuine turn into a full blown money boy over a period of time? I have and I will admit I watched this change with a little sadness.

Most of the boys I chat up in Thai clubs and discos are ordinary working or middle class Thai boys - waiters, call centre workers, students, small business owners, professionals - who are just out to have a great night out dancing and drinking with their friends. But I have been with two boys who I think were "probably" money boys. Didn't know it at the time and only realised it later when thinking back about the encounter since they made no indications of wanting anything more than to hook up for some fun in bed, which is fair enough. They were charming and good fun.

But one Thai boy I had a few encounters with STARTED as a recently-graduated student and later became a money boy. Call me sensitive, but I found it sad watching a young, genuine and fairly innocent boy turn into a money boy with no other form of gainful employment and no ambitions other than to party and enjoy an easy life.

The first encounter

Let's call him "G". I first met G at GOD a couple of years ago. It was one of my first nights in Bangkok that trip and I was bouncing around alone on the second floor checking out the crowd wondering if I could meet someone nice. One of his friends saw I was alone, smiled and invited me over to join them. Thais are great like this. So welcoming.

They were a really friendly and fun group of friends from Nong Khai, Isaan, all 20 to 22 year old fresh-faced cuties! None of them lived in Bangkok. They'd just graduated from high school and were celebrating with a holiday together in Bangkok.

I had heaps of fun dancing with and getting to know these boys. I wanted to buy them all a drink but they refused as they already had a big bottle of whiskey and mixers, which they wanted me to help them finish. They were all super-nice to me, the newcomer.

G struck me as being the cutest. We kind of connected, flirted and I ended up with him. When his friends left to go home they sort of assumed he was staying at the club with me. I invited him back to my little room at the Bally's Studio Suites Silom and had pretty amazing time right up until the sun came up. The hotel cafe was down the corridor from my room (level 6 or 7, I think) so I brought him breakfast in bed, Thai noodles and fresh fruit, which he gratefully accepted.

The second encounter

A couple of months later, I was back in Bangkok and was surprised to see him a second time, this time at DJ Station. He was with a different group of friends this time. I had a crazy time out clubbing with them that night. This time I took him back to the Dusit Thani and had a couple of amazing nights with him again.

I got to know him a bit better this time. He had a couple of relatives also living and working in Bangkok. He was looking for work but seemed a bit lost about what he wanted to do or become. He was 22 but really had the maturity and sense of responsibility of a teenager. He didn't seem to have any ambition at all. Wasn't giving any thought at all to his future. I found this kind of sad, but I was still new to Thailand at the time and didn't think much more about it. We parted ways. He said, "thank you for the good time".

The last encounter

Fast forward 1-2 years later to earlier this year (2010) when I saw him for a third time. I was in DJ Station on a weeknight. Dance floor was probably only half full and I was wondering if I'd get acquainted with anyone at all tonight. I went upstairs where there was a thin crowd and was surprised to bump into his familiar face. I got chatting to him. He was with a group of friends. I noticed a couple of farangs with them too.

I bought all his friends and the (surprised) farangs a round of drinks. Then got chatting with him to catch up. He told me what he had been up to. It became pretty apparent he was full blown money boy now, hanging out at DJ Station every night.

The change

His character had changed. He was still very cute and still had this gentle, charming and caring persona, which I liked. But something else had changed.

It wasn't that he had become a slick and phony-sounding money boy. He wasn't. He was still gentle and caring. But two years of living with an easy, care free party lifestyle had changed him. Behind the smile and the excellent English he now spoke, he had this frivolous and worry free air about him. He had become even more lazy and drawn to taking the easy path. There was no ambition to work, achieve anything or be productive other than prostituting himself to earn money in any way. No thinking about the future or consequences. He was only interested in the easy path, partying his nights away at DJ Station and sleeping during the day.

He had no responsibility and no care about what lay ahead for him or anyone else. He was taking his chances, hoping to find a farang to take care of him, I think.

One of his friends had gotten married to a farang and gone off to live with them in Europe. He talked about this enthusiastically, hoping this might happen to him. It would be an easy way out of his non-existent future in Thailand (non existent because he had no inclination to build a future for himself).

"Hey, don't look at me like that"

Maybe I'm being too judgmental. But I find all this infinitely sad to observe.

Here is a healthy young man, in the prime of his youth. He has more energy and endurance now than he will ever have in his life. Now is the surely best time to carve out a living for himself. To make it happen, whether by studying, training or working to build a business or a career with good future prospects. But all this man is doing is passing it away partying his nights away at DJ Station looking for a new trick every night.

I enjoyed chatting to him to catch up and he was really happy to see me again. But after a while I said it was really nice to see him again. "You don't want to go with me?" he asked. I wasn't really keen.

Sure he was still as cute and charming as ever, but I guess I was a bit put off.

I can't remember the exact words I used but I referred to money in some way. He said, "yes, if you go with me now you must give me money." He said the other boys had told him this. It was as if he saw my eyes change and felt a bit guilty because his eyes looked down and he said, "hey, don't look at me like that". I didn't mean to make him feel bad. Maybe it was more the guilt in his mind than any difference in my eyes.

Eventually, to be nice I slipped him 200 baht and told him it was in case he needed a taxi later. I said it was really nice to see him again and wished all the best of luck for the future (I meant it, he's a sweet boy, even if lazy and lacking guidance) and then went back downstairs.

I guess everyone travels a different path in life, but I wonder where G will be 4-5 years from now.

The contrast in character

Downstairs, I ended up meeting a group of older Thai guys, aged mid-twenties to early thirties and having a great time with them. They were a group of friends - and interesting bunch of Thai guys who were working professionals or small business owners ranging from an interior designer to a restaurant owner - who were out letting their hair down for the night.

Like the money boy group, they were lots of fun and I had a great time getting to know them. But the difference was they seemed a bit more meaningful. They were letting their hair down for the night, knowing they had to be back at work the next day, as we all do, to earn a living. They all had goals, aspirations and responsibilities.

Looking back, I found the contrast in energy between the first and second group from that night interesting...

Your thoughts?

Going back to the topic of G's transformation, have any of you watched such a change?

What thoughts did you have and how did you feel about it? Any sadness at all? Were you worried for him?

[francois]

Have you ever known a Thai boy when he was innocent and genuine and watched him turn into a full blown money boy over time? I have and I found it infinitely sad to follow.


To answer you, no I have not seen this situation but have seen the opposite. Bar boys going from money boys to a more mainstream life style with a regular job. I believe most have some support from a farang.

[dab69]

What thoughts did you have and how did you feel about it? Any sadness at all?


I was initially nauseous,
then proceeded to throw up a bit
in my mouth.

I cried I kept thinking of tiny Tim (T) in a "Christmas Carol".

I cried I kept thinking of tiny Tim (T) in a "Christmas Carol".

I thought of Tiny Tim too.

:occasion9: :occasion9:


[youtube:3jm2g50n]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeNd0gKH480[/youtube:3jm2g50n]

[krobbie]

Beach, I got to know one of the guys at a bar in Patong and one of his co-workers (bar boys) was a really educated Chinese Thai. He was tall and handsome and ended up getting his qualification to work in a retail store. You have to have a permit or document from the government, to work in a retail store.

The next time I was in Patong I was in the big mall and he is was working in a a hi-so guys outfitters. Really sharp modern store with good product. He was happy but later when we were at the beer bar in Paradise he used to work in he turned up as the workers there were still his friends as were the owners of the bar. He always ate with them late and then wondered off so he could get plenty of sleep before being back at the shop in the morning.

The last time I was in Phuket he was back working at the beer bar. I felt sad for him. He said the money working in the shop was poor and working at the beer bar was much better income. He really didn't think anything of self respect or what he had to do to get the money. A job is a job and there's no stigma it would seem.

I am not sure this is true in actuality but just thought I would right it as I saw it and what he told me.

Cheers
krobbie

[colmx]

Maybe I'm being too judgmental.

I think you are being too judgemental
And you are judging people by your standards

To be honest i'd much rather spend my night with a "good time boy" like G than spend it with a driven career oriented show off

Maybe we are inclined to judge by Western Standards rather than looking at it from a Thai's..

[pong]

frankly, and with a very-un-Thai (may soophap) western view, I do not think this is sad-this is the way it goes with 100s if not 1000s of girls every month-and as gays are assumed to form just 3-5% of the population-that means 3-5 a month- or 30/50. What is that sadness anyway-except the thoughts in your brains?
It is (for me) tipically Thai. find the laziest job you can find giving the most handsome reward. Look for the positive: you say he still has that charming friendly Isan/Lao style of trerating you. Big chance he remembers you and spoils you with free drinks-as you may have been the 1 to point him out the endless opportunities and easy hook-ups BKK mahanakorn has to offer.
A tee-total and pahtee free program might have to be installed to accomplish that.
(now let the thunder come over this post-thats also to be expected)

Isn't this a description of all of us........aren't we all money-boys to a certain extend?
Aren't we all full of life, going out, partying and showing off our nice characters until we get to the point the the word "responsibility" is added to our vocabulary and our life-style?
Especially the wage-slaves under us aren't more nor less then money-boys; so why are you going to be sad if you see a perfectly heatlhy young Thai man takes the next step on his ladder.
He has the luck that he won't be a moneyboy for the rest of his life, most of us will be "moneyboys" for approx. 40 years.

[Narakmak]

Being a prostitute is often OK with the Thai lower classes/working classes. It is most certainly not OK with the Thai middle classes and higher. This isn't a matter of "Thai" values, it's a matter of class values in Thailand.

Being a prostitute is often OK with the Thai lower classes/working classes. It is most certainly not OK with the Thai middle classes and higher. This isn't a matter of "Thai" values, it's a matter of class values in Thailand.

That could be said for the rest of the world as well.

[Narakmak]

Being a prostitute is often OK with the Thai lower classes/working classes. It is most certainly not OK with the Thai middle classes and higher. This isn't a matter of "Thai" values, it's a matter of class values in Thailand.

That could be said for the rest of the world as well.
I don't totally agree with that. It's a matter of degree.

[Beachlover]

To answer you, no I have not seen this situation but have seen the opposite. Bar boys going from money boys to a more mainstream life style with a regular job. I believe most have some support from a farang.
That's nice...

I think money boys go into it out of a combination of laziness/desire for money and difficult circumstances (family to feed, lack of opportunities to earn a better income). For some it's more due to laziness. For some it's a practical decision stemming from the need to earn more than they would in another job.

For the boys who are in it, some of them are keen to work their way out of it to a more mainstream lifestyle. Some will grab any good opportunity (e.g. farang relationship) to achieve this easily. But others have no ambition to do this and won't bother. Even if you give them the opportunity (as many farang have found, I'm sure) they'll blow it and go back to being a gogo boy.


I was initially nauseous, then proceeded to throw up a bit in my mouth.
At the original post or your own experience?...


The last time I was in Phuket he was back working at the beer bar. I felt sad for him. He said the money working in the shop was poor and working at the beer bar was much better income. He really didn't think anything of self respect or what he had to do to get the money. A job is a job and there's no stigma it would seem.
Ah, that is sad. I guess this was a practical decision of his to go back. I'm sure there is some stigma but it happens to be a type or level of stigma he can handle and is outweighed by the income. It also depends who he hangs out with. If his friends were the type who look down on it, he would find it more difficult to make the decision to go back. If his friends were indifferent it would matter at all.


I think you are being too judgemental. And you are judging people by your standards

To be honest i'd much rather spend my night with a "good time boy" like G than spend it with a driven career oriented show off
That's a fair call and you are right. I am judging them by what I value.

I do value someone who is genuine, earnest, diligent, caring, grounded and established in his own right. I also value people who are charming, friendly and fun to be around. But I don't really value so much, someone who wouldn't be with me if I wasn't paying them. This is just a personal thing. Maybe it'll change one day.

None of the guys I've gone out with were a "driven career oriented show off". The second group of guys in the story certainly weren't. I had a lot of fun with them. I also found it easier to relate to them, then to a group of boys who's lives are just one endless party, going to DJ Station and trying to pick up customers every night, not that they wouldn't have been fun to hang out with too.

One of the members on this forum told me how there tends to be a difference in atmosphere between the Bangkok expats who work or run a business and the ones who are retired and do nothing productive or engaging all day. Some of the former tend to avoid the latter.

In any case, I still regard G and others like him as human beings with natural weaknesses. Or perhaps the ability to tolerate having sex with people you don't find desirable is a strength?...

[Beachlover]

Maybe we are inclined to judge by Western Standards rather than looking at it from a Thai's..
Well, that's only natural. But whilst Thais tend to be a bit more accepting of prostitutes, money boys and the whole gold digging thing than most Westerners, you might still agree, most Thais would have greater respect for a boy who say, goes out to establish himself in his own right with gainful employment and career than one who hangs out partying every night looking for farang to pay him for sex (not that this isn't gainful employment).


It is (for me) tipically Thai. find the laziest job you can find giving the most handsome reward.
Yeah, that sums it up well.


Look for the positive: you say he still has that charming friendly Isan/Lao style of trerating you. Big chance he remembers you and spoils you with free drinks-as you may have been the 1 to point him out the endless opportunities and easy hook-ups BKK mahanakorn has to offer.
A tee-total and pahtee free program might have to be installed to accomplish that.
LOL well I didn't pay him anything (other than being a good host and feeding/looking after him) the earlier two times when I saw him. I suspect it was a couple of other boys in DJ Station who showed him what was possible with farang and his eyes lit up at the opportunity to earn.


(now let the thunder come over this post-thats also to be expected)
It's ok, can't thunder because I didn't understand half of what you said LOL.


He has the luck that he won't be a moneyboy for the rest of his life, most of us will be "moneyboys" for approx. 40 years.
Right... so when he's too old to pick up tricks, what's he going to do to earn a living?

He has the luck that he won't be a moneyboy for the rest of his life, most of us will be "moneyboys" for approx. 40 years.
Right... so when he's too old to pick up tricks, what's he going to do to earn a living?

I have never met a prostitute anywhere in the world with a credible "game plan"

Either they die (very often suicide) or they "grow out of it" and get a menial job, or they get lucky and find a wealthy sugar daddy.

In my experience the percentage split is probably 45/50/5

:occasion9:

[thrillbill]

... First I want to say there is most likely a variety of reasons why one becomes a "money" boy, but heck, it is easy money. You figure if the guy is even educated working in a hotel he may make just 200 baht a day; meanwhile, he could be making 1500-??? baht in a couple hours. If I was in my 20's, good looking and had Western men googling over me with their fat wallets; I'm horny; and I find the guy attractive (I am a "commercial boy" so I have a choice of who I want to go with) then I'd look at it as getting paid for a "chuck wow". But if it was me (as with some Thais) it would be just to get ahead and not be forever. But unfortunately there are some that are spending their money as soon as they earn it and slut themselves onto anyone -- hoping to find that farang that will take them back to Europe. Throgh my Thai bf, I know of 2-3 Thai fellow that met their "instant" boyfriend and within a couple months went to Europe to be with him... no love involved, just hope for a better life. ONce they got to Belgium, Germany, the other fellow to England - they were miserable. True, not all relationships end up like this, some do last.

[CoffeeBreak]

Interesting post OP so well done.

You write,

"He had become even more lazy and drawn to taking the easy path. There was no ambition to work, achieve anything or be productive (other than prostituting himself) in any way. No thinking about the future or consequences. He was only interested in the easy path, partying his nights away at DJ Station and sleeping during the day".

-a few observations:

A good prostitute would say he is being productive and providing a service. And of course people do change when they start charging for what previously was given for free.In Thailand most people here are paid a pittence, and big bucks can be made from being a successful whore. A nice looker who satisfies his customers will never be short of punters.
Best of luck for him though it is correct many of those on the game fail to save any money and only realize that when they are well past their sell by date and by that time its too late.

[allieb]

Beachlover, how did G become a money boy?

My guess is that you first met him on one of his very first if not the first trip to GOD. He is basically gay and wanted sex. You had read the cards right, didn't offer money and money wasn't expected.

Perhaps on another visit to GOD or perhaps DJ station G met a farang who he fancied. Went back had a wonderful night and In the morning the farang just handed over some money assuming he was a money boy.Seeing what he got for doing something he liked anyway changed the whole way of looking at things. Being from up country and perhaps not so well off it may have been a dream come true. Easy money

I had an experience in DJ a few years ago when I met a 20 something year old who stalked me all night. He was stunning and I said to myself this is going to cost more than usual. I bought him a drink and then he wanted to buy me one back. Cleaver tactic I thought.

We ended up going back to Chin House where I was staying and had great sex until the early morning. He said he had to go but could we meat again? I was really keen so to keep his interest I took out 2,500 baht (the going rate then was 1,500 all night) and handed it to him. He slapped it out of my hand and it fell to the ground. Do you think I'm a money boy he screamed and stormed out? I never saw him again.

I had completely misread the situation and In this case had met someone who perhaps was comfortably off and of a class who frowned on prostitution.

[Brad the Impala]

.

We ended up going back to Chin House where I was staying and had great sex until the early morning. He said he had to go but could we meat again? I was really keen so to keep his interest I took out 2,500 baht (the going rate then was 1,500 all night) and handed it to him. He slapped it out of my hand and it fell to the ground. Do you think I'm a money boy he screamed and stormed out? I never saw him again.

I had completely misread the situation and In this case had met someone who perhaps was comfortably off and of a class who frowned on prostitution.

And yet elsewhere you write


The longest relationship with any Thai is surely overnight. A new relationship begins when you rent him the next day

Haven't learnt from the experience have you!

[Beachlover]

I have never met a prostitute anywhere in the world with a credible "game plan"

Either they die (very often suicide) or they "grow out of it" and get a menial job, or they get lucky and find a wealthy sugar daddy.

In my experience the percentage split is probably 45/50/5
You might well be right. But do you really think 45% of prostitutes die young? I also think there is a small percentage who "grow out of it" into something more than a menial job.


heck, it is easy money. You figure if the guy is even educated working in a hotel he may make just 200 baht a day; meanwhile, he could be making 1500-??? baht in a couple hours. If I was in my 20's, good looking and had Western men googling over me with their fat wallets; I'm horny; and I find the guy attractive (I am a "commercial boy" so I have a choice of who I want to go with) then I'd look at it as getting paid for a "chuck wow". But if it was me (as with some Thais) it would be just to get ahead and not be forever. But unfortunately there are some that are spending their money as soon as they earn it and slut themselves onto anyone -- hoping to find that farang that will take them back to Europe.
I think you're totally right. In most cases, if a boy is the type to diligently use the "financial advantage" of prostitution to get ahead it's likely they wouldn't be a prostitute.

If they were, they would seek to save maybe 70% of their income (assuming low-skilled workers earn 6,000/month and a prostitute can make at least 20,000/month), which might give them 150,000 baht + in savings at the end of the first year... good money to get ahead with. But we know this almost never happens.


Throgh my Thai bf, I know of 2-3 Thai fellow that met their "instant" boyfriend and within a couple months went to Europe to be with him... no love involved, just hope for a better life. ONce they got to Belgium, Germany, the other fellow to England - they were miserable. True, not all relationships end up like this, some do last.
Got to wonder what happens then. The farang who took them there probably isn't too bright and didn't consider how the boy would adapt to a farang country away from ALL of his fellow Thais. Here in Sydney, Australia there is at least a sizable Thai population so they tend to make friends relatively quick.


A good prostitute would say he is being productive and providing a service. And of course people do change when they start charging for what previously was given for free.In Thailand most people here are paid a pittence, and big bucks can be made from being a successful whore. A nice looker who satisfies his customers will never be short of punters.
Look, you're right. He is simply providing a service. But as Thrillbill pointed out, it's sad they don't use the heightened income to get ahead and as you say, it is an occupation with a relatively short lifespan in most cases.


Best of luck for him though...
Yeah, I hope he ends up ok. He's still relatively young, 22. Long way to go. Maybe he'll get sick of it after a year or two and seek out something with more of a future. He seems to be more of a follower though. I noticed he follows the other boys around.

[Beachlover]

My guess is that you first met him on one of his very first if not the first trip to GOD. He is basically gay and wanted sex. You had read the cards right, didn't offer money and money wasn't expected.
Yeah, and I guess coming from some little Isaan town it was pretty cool to hook up with a cute foreigner staying in a nice hotel. He had a great time. I remember he really enjoyed taking a bath for some reason.

I never offer money to any of the boys I pick up there, but I tend to avoid the moneyboys. My first couple of visits I guess I didn't know how to tell the difference but the (unconfirmed) moneyboys were coming onto me and I guess saw me as a genuine pick up and not someone who would pay them then...


Beachlover, how did G become a money boy?... Perhaps on another visit to GOD or perhaps DJ station G met a farang who he fancied. Went back had a wonderful night and In the morning the farang just handed over some money assuming he was a money boy.Seeing what he got for doing something he liked anyway changed the whole way of looking at things. Being from up country and perhaps not so well off it may have been a dream come true. Easy money
Yeah, that sounds like what might have happened. Or maybe he made friends with another moneyboy...


I had an experience in DJ a few years ago when I met a 20 something year old who stalked me all night. He was stunning and I said to myself this is going to cost more than usual. I bought him a drink and then he wanted to buy me one back. Cleaver tactic I thought.

We ended up going back to Chin House where I was staying and had great sex until the early morning. He said he had to go but could we meat again? I was really keen so to keep his interest I took out 2,500 baht (the going rate then was 1,500 all night) and handed it to him. He slapped it out of my hand and it fell to the ground. Do you think I'm a money boy he screamed and stormed out? I never saw him again.

I had completely misread the situation and In this case had met someone who perhaps was comfortably off and of a class who frowned on prostitution.
Shit, I know it's a genuine mistake, but that's horrible. He would have felt really dirty after that!

I guess you know you screwed up there. What a real shame. You could've been onto something really genuine and real there, unlike any of your other encounters with Thai boys.

I know you have a pretty pragmatic attitude to Thai money boys and yes, they can be deceptive and troublesome, but I think you should accept not all Thai boys are like that. There are plenty who wouldn't go near the trade. And there are also many who are in a situation where they could do with a better income, but they have a certain degree of integrity, self respect and principles, which wouldn't allow them to do it.

I have never met a prostitute anywhere in the world with a credible "game plan"

Either they die (very often suicide) or they "grow out of it" and get a menial job, or they get lucky and find a wealthy sugar daddy.

In my experience the percentage split is probably 45/50/5
You might well be right. But do you really think 45% of prostitutes die young? I also think there is a small percentage who "grow out of it" into something more than a menial job..

Yes I do think the death and suicide rate amongst young prostitutes (worldwide, as I said) is extremely high.

In my experience many of them have unstable backgrounds together with a significant incidence of mental health and drug abuse issues. I really do think the mortality rate is extremely high (maybe more so in the West) and I'm not exaggerating when I suggest 45%

There are relatively few well-educated prostitutes - hence the common drift into menial, low-skilled jobs in later life. Yes there are exceptions (I know a former rent boy who is now a VERY highly paid television celebrity/household name) - but most will end up in dead-end jobs.

And, no, don't ask!

:occasion9: :occasion9:

[Beachlover]

In my experience many of them have unstable backgrounds together with a significant incidence of mental health and drug abuse issues. I really do think the mortality rate is extremely high (maybe more so in the West) and I'm not exaggerating when I suggest 45%
That's a fair call. I've no idea what it's like in Western countries but I do doubt it's that high for male prostitutes (taking into account all of them, from gogo boy to DJ Station money boys and Gayromeo etc.) in Thailand altogether. Wouldn't be surprised if the rate for Sunee Plaza was a lot higher than other segments though.


And, no, don't ask!
YOU just put the thought into my head LOL... :blackeye:

[kittyboy]

He has the luck that he won't be a moneyboy for the rest of his life, most of us will be "moneyboys" for approx. 40 years.
Right... so when he's too old to pick up tricks, what's he going to do to earn a living?

I have never met a prostitute anywhere in the world with a credible "game plan"

Either they die (very often suicide) or they "grow out of it" and get a menial job, or they get lucky and find a wealthy sugar daddy.

In my experience the percentage split is probably 45/50/5

:occasion9:

I would argue that the death rate of prostitutes is 100% because in the Long Run we are all dead...including all those cute thai male prostitutes...
Whether they die younger at greater rates...? Ah....that is a research question...I intend to apply to the thai ministry of health for a grant to study male prostitutes in thailand...field work would be required. Lots of field work.

[cdnmatt]

I've seen a few guys make failed attempts at transforming themselves into money boys. Does that count?

Or then again, what's your definition of a money boy? I've met lots of guys who goto university, or have a normal job, have a good family life, good social network, etc. But if there's some farang who's going to give them 1000 baht for one night, they're not going to say no. You know, maybe mom cleans houses for a living, and dad sells noodles from a little stall. 1000 baht for like 6 hours, plus probably a good night out??? Fucken eh! Does that make them a money boy, or just someone surviving?

Or then again, what's your definition of a money boy? I've met lots of guys who goto university, or have a normal job, have a good family life, good social network, etc. But if there's some farang who's going to give them 1000 baht for one night, they're not going to say no. You know, maybe mom cleans houses for a living, and dad sells noodles from a little stall. 1000 baht for like 6 hours, plus probably a good night out??? Fucken eh! Does that make them a money boy, or just someone surviving?

It is what it is. Like a lot of these things, there's no huge requirement to put people in boxes, or call them names. It probably conforms to some people's idea of a money boy, and not to others. I guess I'd only consider someone a money boy if selling sex was their primary activity/means of support. Someone in university I would usually refer to as a 'Student', however they fund their education.

[Beachlover]

I've seen a few guys make failed attempts at transforming themselves into money boys. Does that count?
Oh that's right. You mentioned this before. Went to Pattaya and found the whole thing too difficult or disgusting right? Maybe they should have gone to Bangkok and DJ Station where they can pick and choose their customers more...


Or then again, what's your definition of a money boy? I've met lots of guys who goto university, or have a normal job, have a good family life, good social network, etc. But if there's some farang who's going to give them 1000 baht for one night, they're not going to say no. You know, maybe mom cleans houses for a living, and dad sells noodles from a little stall. 1000 baht for like 6 hours, plus probably a good night out??? Fucken eh! Does that make them a money boy, or just someone surviving?
That's a good point. That would be what I call an "opportunist". He might range from someone who pursues it regularly to someone who only does it from time to time if a nice opportunity arises.

I think they can be categorised as (1) money boys who do nothing else and have no other ambitions, (2) money boys who might have other ambitions later on like saving to start a business, study or get another job, (3) money boys who are already doing something else, like studying or working a day job and (4) boys who are from time to time, opportunists.

The thing that saddened me was G belonged to category (1). And I think many who start in categories (3) and (4) progress to category (1), once they get a taste of the easy life. The ones who have a greater sense of responsibility and foresight don't.

I think are lots of these "opportunist" type boys in Thailand and Asia in general.

Personally, I would not have found it so sad if "G" was transitioning to something else. But as I said, he had absolutely nothing...

[thrillbill]

Another point to add is that many older "farangs" tempt (?) some of the guys to accept money. The 20 something year old that goes to university or has a job may be given money without even asking; next, he assumes this is the way to go. I fortunately am still in good shape and have been with guys I've met at GOD and DJ to find out later ( a few trips later to DJ) that they are rent boys; yet never asked me for money. My whole critical, puritanical attitude toward male "prostitutes" has changed since I have lived in Thailand. For me we "prostitute" ourselves to crap jobs that we may not like just to earn money. Once I worked for a slimy credit card company that had to call up customers falling behind their payments. It was an awful job. I hated it, (against my values) but did it for the money. I think being a "rent boy" would have had more "honor" in it than what I had done for a corporation. At least a commercial boy can really bring happiness (short time) to a client. Up to him.

[allieb]

.

We ended up going back to Chin House where I was staying and had great sex until the early morning. He said he had to go but could we meat again? I was really keen so to keep his interest I took out 2,500 baht (the going rate then was 1,500 all night) and handed it to him. He slapped it out of my hand and it fell to the ground. Do you think I'm a money boy he screamed and stormed out? I never saw him again.

I had completely misread the situation and In this case had met someone who perhaps was comfortably off and of a class who frowned on prostitution.

And yet elsewhere you write


The longest relationship with any Thai is surely overnight. A new relationship begins when you rent him the next day



Haven't learnt from the experience have you!

And you ask me in another post Is it just in Thailand that you have the problem of having to pay for any sex, friendship or relationships?

1. No I dont go to Thailand to learn. I go there to pay and play. In my opinion long term relationships don't work.

2. Yes plenty of free sex friends and meaningful relationships in the Middle East.

Any other questions?

[Brad the Impala]

1. No I dont go to Thailand to learn. I go there to pay and play. In my opinion long term relationships don't work.

They don't work for you. To extrapolate from that they don't work for others, when there is ample evidence here of others for whom they do work, is ill informed and misleading.




2. Yes plenty of free sex friends and meaningful relationships in the Middle East.

Any other questions?

Yes, with all the free sex and meaningful relationships that you are getting elsewhere, why do you keep returning to Thailand for sex, where you seem to despise everyone as a prostitute.

...why do you keep returning..... you seem to despise everyone as a prostitute.

Maybe he relishes wallowing in the shamelessness, the sleaze, the filth, the depravity.

That's why I come to SGT forum anyway!

:sign5:

[allieb]

1. No I dont go to Thailand to learn. I go there to pay and play. In my opinion long term relationships don't work.

They don't work for you. To extrapolate from that they don't work for others, when there is ample evidence here of others for whom they do work, is ill informed and misleading.




2. Yes plenty of free sex friends and meaningful relationships in the Middle East.

Any other questions?

Yes, with all the free sex and meaningful relationships that you are getting elsewhere, why do you keep returning to Thailand for sex, where you seem to despise everyone as a prostitute.

You've asked so I will answer this last time as I don't want to hijack Beacklovers post.

First of all I said in my opinion long term relationships don't work.

The boys that many posters on SGT are looking for are quite few years younger than themselves. These young boys are easily tempted by some extra money from another farang. One example is Beachlovers account of how a nice boy turned into a money boy.

I have heard so many stories about farangs finding out boy special has another couple or three on the go. I don't knock it good luck to the boys. There are always exceptions to the rule but the chances of finding a faithful long term relationship are remote.

You are wrong in assuming I despise anyone. I go like many do to areas in Thiland which have a high number of prostitutes. I love them and use their services on my trips to Thailand. Why do I use the services of prostitutes? Because I can, and there is a huge selection to choose from,it's that simple. I don't go the the Cultural Center in Bangkok looking for prostitutes because I won't find any.

Why do I go to Thailand so often you ask? I work in a country which has a lot of social restrictions which I'm sure you already know about. I get 8 weeks vacation a year, I earn a pretty good tax free salary and I need to change the batteries from time to time. Why not Thailand?

What do I like about Thailand I can drink freely in public I can flirt in public. I can eat fabulous food, see a show, go to the cinema and sit on the beach with a gin and tonic in my hand. Best of all in the short time I'm there I can cut the chase and go straight to the action with a good looking prostitute.

I have met some very nice prostitutes and had good times with them and not just in the bedroom, but I'm not in the market for saving Elilsa Dolittle or funding the replacement for the dead buffalo after I have left.

I hope that clears up my position .

[Beachlover]

For me we "prostitute" ourselves to crap jobs that we may not like just to earn money. Once I worked for a slimy credit card company that had to call up customers falling behind their payments. It was an awful job. I hated it, (against my values) but did it for the money. I think being a "rent boy" would have had more "honor" in it than what I had done for a corporation. At least a commercial boy can really bring happiness (short time) to a client. Up to him.
Well, not everyone does a job they hate. Some people are quite fulfilled/satisfied in their occupation.

Secondly, I think sex is quite an intimate, personal and special thing. I've had lots of one nighters but always treat each of them specially. I would find it extremely hard to have sex with someone if I found them unattractive but I think I could do a job I didn't like so much, like factory work, administration or debt collection if I had to, to a certain extent.

[Beachlover]

You've asked so I will answer this last time as I don't want to hijack Beacklovers post.
Oh, don't worry about that... I love interesting side tracks.


They don't work for you. To extrapolate from that they don't work for others, when there is ample evidence here of others for whom they do work, is ill informed and misleading.
Yeah, I think this is the issue that Brad has with your previous comment, allieb. It's that you say it as if your circumstances apply to everyone, or that the characteristics of the money boys you meet apply to all Thai boys.

I love your stories and love that you're so pragmatic and bluntly honest but your experience isn't characteristic of everyone's...

I think your OPINION is valid if you say relationships with Thai boys are challenging (very general) or say they don't work for you, but it's totally off if you say they don't work for everyone or that all Thai boys are like the ones you meet. Especially when you've just recounted meeting a perfectly genuine Thai boy who was keen to see you again.

There are so many examples of stable loving relationships between Thai boys and foreigners, Brad being one of them.


I have heard so many stories about farangs finding out boy special has another couple or three on the go. I don't knock it good luck to the boys. There are always exceptions to the rule but the chances of finding a faithful long term relationship are remote.
Again... This applies to Thai boys who prostitute themselves. Not to all Thai boys. Especially not the middle-class or more successful working class. And not even all the poorer ones.


Why do I go to Thailand so often you ask?... Why not Thailand?
I agree... have fun!

[bao-bao]

From my experiences speaking with and interviewing club and gogo guys over the years I think thrillbill has it closest to on the money, so to speak. While I don't agree with everything he put in his two posts he hits on most of the key points/reasons a very high percentage of them are in "the business". I probably should get off my butt and post more of their stories on the blog, but there are a couple.

If you're going to equate prostitution with doing something we don't like to do, don't want to be doing, would never choose to do on our own or feel it's not "right" to do in exchange for monetary or other remuneration, MANY of us have been prostitutes at some point or other in our lives. Using that criteria some in suits and ties can make a career of it just as easily as someone in a pair of white underpants with a number pinned to them.

[DamienZ]

f you're going to equate prostitution with doing something we don't like to do, don't want to be doing, would never choose to do on our own or feel it's not "right" to do in exchange for monetary or other remuneration, MANY of us have been prostitutes at some point or other in our lives. Using that criteria some in suits and ties can make a career of it just as easily as someone in a pair of white underpants with a number pinned to them.


Shhhhhh! Damit Khun Bao Bao!!! :glasses7:

MANY of us have been prostitutes at some point or other in our lives...

An elderly gentleman gave me ┬г1 in 1976.



:occasion9:

[DamienZ]

...and now a word from our sponsor!!! :sunny:


[youtube:1mj1c2t0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNvGVVqRJEs[/youtube:1mj1c2t0]

After posting a video of Eartha Kitt you have risen in my estimation -

I've got my Cha Cha Heels on right now!!!


:notworthy: :notworthy:

[DamienZ]

Alwayssssszz....a fan!
We miss her!
:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

I meant so say - in the video of Eartha at 80yo (as she was then) there's an uncanny resemblence to how Madame Jim would look in blackface.

I believe Jimmy is older though - so even heavier make up than usual would be required.

:occasion9: :occasion9:

I meant so say - in the video of Eartha at 80yo (as she was then) there's an uncanny resemblence to how Madame Jim would look in blackface.

I believe Jimmy is older though - so even heavier make up than usual would be required.

:occasion9: :occasion9:

I think it may have something to do with his liking for indoor BBQ's Scotty..

[mj_87-old]

As I recall from a previous thread a certain poster was putting forth the notion that people with more money were worth more to society...In this case I must agree. A decent money boy certainly makes more money selling his ass than working in a factory. He provides a very valuable service for good pay which is much more valuable to thailand than if he sold t shirts....He brings in more money for himself and also lures more sex tourists to thailand...a win win situation.

We should encourage them to become money boys...as they are more important individuals (according to some) and they bring in the sex tourist dollars to help feed others.

We should encourage them to become money boys...as they are more important individuals (according to some) and they bring in the sex tourist dollars to help feed others.

Are you real?

[Beachlover]

From my experiences speaking with and interviewing club and gogo guys over the years...I probably should get off my butt and post more of their stories on the blog, but there are a couple.
Always been curious what this "work in progress" of yours is...


After posting a video of Eartha Kitt you have risen in my estimation
And you Scottish have fallen in my estimation! (Who the hell is Eartha?) :occasion9:


uncanny resemblence to how Madame Jim would look in blackface. I believe Jimmy is older though - so even heavier make up than usual would be required.
Optimal solution: Brown paper bag

[Beachlover]

Oh great... Mr Rational and Go with the Flow is back.


As I recall from a previous thread a certain poster was putting forth the notion that people with more money were worth more to society...
Wrong, I said people earning in their own right and I said this is just one of many factors contributing to a person's worth.

[mj_87-old]

Oh great... Mr Rational and Go with the Flow is back.


As I recall from a previous thread a certain poster was putting forth the notion that people with more money were worth more to society...
Wrong, I said people earning in their own right and I said this is just one of many factors contributing to a person's worth.

You indicated that it was one of the most important factors....or was that someone else? hmmm I don't remember. Anyway...if young man makes 2000 baht a month working in a rice paddy and 5 times as much as a money boy selling his ass or cock then he must have more value to society because he is making more money. I see nothing wrong with that.

As someone pointed out..we all prostitute ourselves.

[mj_87-old]

We should encourage them to become money boys...as they are more important individuals (according to some) and they bring in the sex tourist dollars to help feed others.

Are you real?

Don't worry you are not losing it...I am for real...I mean if I was not real why would other people respond to my messages.
You are OK...You are not seeing things.

[quote="mj_87":1z7mvkj8] We should encourage them to become money boys...as they are more important individuals (according to some) and they bring in the sex tourist dollars to help feed others.

Are you real?

Don't worry you are not losing it...I am for real...I mean if I was not real why would other people respond to my messages.
You are OK...You are not seeing things.[/quote:1z7mvkj8]

Combat is used to seeing things.

After a few snifters he usually he sees them DOUBLE into the bargain.


:occasion9: :occasion9: :occasion9:

Combat is used to seeing things. After a few snifters he usually he sees them DOUBLE into the bargain. :occasion9: :occasion9: :occasion9:

Indeed Scotty don't we all? Mind you I needed a couple of 'snifters' to translate your comment back into English, had you had a dram or two?

Combat is used to seeing things. After a few snifters he usually he sees them DOUBLE into the bargain. :occasion9: :occasion9: :occasion9:

Indeed Scotty don't we all? Mind you I needed a couple of 'snifters' to translate your comment back into English, had you had a dram or two?

At 10.33am? I don't open the bottle before 11.

:occasion9: :occasion9:

At 10.33am? I don't open the bottle before 11. :occasion9: :occasion9:

And we'll tak a right guid-willie waught...as long as it's 11...

[Beachlover]

At 10.33am? I don't open the bottle before 11.
So all the scenes from Braveheart were shot in the morning then...

At 10.33am? I don't open the bottle before 11.
So all the scenes from Braveheart were shot in the morning then...

That Aussie fake shot all the scenes in Ireland.

:boxing:

[quote="scottish-guy":owyin99g]At 10.33am? I don't open the bottle before 11.
So all the scenes from Braveheart were shot in the morning then...

That Aussie fake shot all the scenes in Ireland.

:boxing:[/quote:owyin99g]

That's because he wanted to shoot after 11am and couldn't find anyone sober enough in Scottyland, hic...... :hello1:

[DamienZ]

(Who the hell is Eartha?) :occasion9:

Beach,
My Gay 101 course had a different curriculum than yours
This is a very annotated answer to "who the hell is Eartha?" Hope maybe one day you might be a fan as well!

She was a fabulous Diva and gay icon among many, many other things (she was also an awesome cat woman!).

Eartha Mae Kitt (January 17, 1927 тАУ December 25, 2008[2]) was an American actress, singer and cabaret star. She was perhaps best known for her highly distinctive singing style and her 1953 hit Christmas song "Santa Baby". Orson Welles once called her the "most exciting woman in the world."[3] She took over the role of Catwoman for the third season of the 1960s Batman television series, replacing Julie Newmar, who was unavailable for the final season.

Ms. Kitt became a vocal advocate for homosexual rights and publicly supported same-sex marriage, which she believed to be a civil right. She had been quoted as saying: "I support it [gay marriage] because we're asking for the same thing. If I have a partner and something happens to me, I want that partner to enjoy the benefits of what we have reaped together. It's a civil-rights thing, isn't it?-Wikipedia

http://www.earthakitt.com/

I cannot credit that Beachlover did not know who Eartha Kitt was.

I will have to educate him.

Strict discipline will be involved.

:laughing3: :laughing3:

[dab69]

Beachlover wrote "so I brought him breakfast in bed, Thai noodles and fresh fruit, which he gratefully accepted."

It's all your fault Beachie...
you started him on the road to hell
with your payment of noodles and fruit...

[Beachlover]

Beach, My Gay 101 course had a different curriculum than yours
This is a very annotated answer to "who the hell is Eartha?" Hope maybe one day you might be a fan as well!
Ah well... my Gay101 course came from this board LOL.

Thanks for the background on Eartha. Interesting character...


It's all your fault Beachie...
you started him on the road to hell
with your payment of noodles and fruit...
I know I know... if only I had fed him bread and water he might be something today! :occasion9:

[DamienZ]

Beach,
I think there is a certain amount of colonial naivet├й one carries to Thailand until one is sufficiently disillusioned.
Is it possible that innocence can be corrupted by money, power and sex? Yes, quite possible IMHO. I suspect that on some level if one chooses to contract with a MB, one thinks that one is in a position of power because one is paying. As Khun Bao-Bao has pointed out, any board members who in their past may have worked this trade will surely tell you differently.
MB's are the persons in positions of power in this exchange. We come to the table with so many unconscious emotional and psychological needs of which I'm sure they are well aware if they have been at it for a while-they talk about us after we are gone, know when we are coming and when we are going, they know our likes and dislikes, pleasures and preferences, and as pointed out in an earlier unrelated thread, share this information along a very discrete but exacting network of informal communication. I could go on. Maybe in the case of your young friend, the combination of money, power, and sex (a very potent mix), already brought out what was inherently there?
Just a theory.
DZ

PS Eartha was Fabulous!!!

[Beachlover]

Well, I didn't see anything particularly bad in this guy. He wasn't overly deceptive or manipulative in any way. I guess I just found it a little sad that two years later he hadn't got anywhere and didn't plan to get anywhere on his own.

Anyway... I just thought it'd be an interesting story to share. He was quite different from all the other Thai boys I meet. Still young though. He might find his way out of it. I asked about some of his friends who I had met on previous trips (but weren't anywhere to be seen this time) and they were all doing various things... in the army, working in an electronics shop, studying, etc.

[latintopxxx]

as the sayong goes...they're young...dumb and full of cum...or shall i say not so dumb.,..whats the use of working in a convenience store when they can quadruple their income doing something they enjoy....once the arse sags they can always go back to a dead end job.....afterall these are not professional college educated guys...

[lexusgs]

I've just read this....I gotta sat the whole thing is a little contrived..can't you come up with something more original. It's like reading a gay Mills & Boon novel. I mean come on :nud: