The future of Economy Class travel ...

[Smiles]

Having just endured back and forth from Thailand aboard EVA Air (first time) I will probably not be going that route again unless they ditch their incredibly cramped (in Economy) and quite old 747's.
The first leg out (Seattle - Taipae) was 12.5 hours and the return was 11 hrs and this lengths are just a complete pain ... especially if one does not get an aisle seat (though the flight from Taipae to Bangkok was a joy at only 3 hrs instead of the usual 6 hrs on the Tokyo/Bangkok United route).
Rumour has it that EVA has purchased a slew of the much more comfortable 777's, and that would be an improvement, but it all really depends on what each individual airline orders as their seating configuration in Economy.

From the diagrams below (noticed in Tuesday's New York Times), things seem to be be a-brewin' in the war to crowd as many bodies into the Economy sections of jumbo jets as possible without incuring mass passenger uprisings.
850-passenger Airbus A380's are being pondered . . . as are stand-up "seats" (see below diagram)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/sawatdeephotos/Images/airlineseats3.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/sawatdeephotos/Images/airlineseats2.jpg


Cheers ....

Well.. you get's what you pay for Smiles. Economy Deluxe on EVA is only a few hundred dollars more round trip and well worth the few extra dollars. Since you only make one trip a year, I recommend you make that trip a whole lot more nice and cough up a few extra dollars. Trust me, It's well worth anyone older than 21 or taller than 5'5" to skip economy on any overseas (long duration) flight. And BTW, EVA's 747 are really not that old, compared to those in use by Northwest and many others. EVA's 747s were all manufactured in the early to mid 90's. They are, however, as you stated, being replaced with new 777's. But having flown on those, I again recommend flying in Economy Deluxe.
I have flown many times on EVA using Economy Deluxe and found the trip quite pleasant. I will however, be switching on my next trip to THAI's non-stop flight from LA to BKK, BUT will be flying Deluxe Economy again. A 17 hour flight in economy would be pretty unbearable.

BTW, Today AIRBUS made a public statement Denying they have ever proposed Stand-up seating...

[Smiles]

And BTW Jake (seeing as how you are taking this ever-so-seriously), did you notice the subliminal male sexual metaphor(s) inherent in the stand up seating diagram? What woman (or gay man) wouldn't want to rest her/his ass up against that?
If those arm rests don't have not too subtle hints of the linga (both flaccid and erect, and cut!) seen (for instance) at the Khymer temple in Prasat Phanom Rung, then I'm an airbus monkey.

Cheers ...

What woman (or gay man) wouldn't want to rest her/his ass up against that?Lesbians? As a group of course they are totally beyond comprehension, neither possessing a cock nor interested in cock. I do remember the main character in the eponymous The Killing of Sister George who answered the comment "You always look so cheerful, driving around on your moped" with "Wouldn't you look happy too, with 50cc throbbing between your legs?" A rather odd response, as the Sister George character was supposedly a lesbian

[Michael]

Thanks for posting that interesting article Smiles.
Although quite slim, I'm 6ft tall and so most flights tend to be a living hell. Alas, my finances prevent me from an upgrade from economy.
On my last departure flight to BKK, on advice from this forum, I asked EVA for a seat with extra leg room, on account of my height, and enjoyed the luxury of an emergency exit seat (with luck the flight was 1/2 full and the 2 seats either side were empty).
On my return journey I took advantage of the relaxed approach of pharmacies in Thailand and slept for 8 hours of the journey.

[Smiles]

" ... If someone is sitting in the 1st seat they usually offer me their dessert.I have had that a few times now,anyone else had people offering them their airline food? Last time i had people give me their desserts and cakes... "
You probably neglected to tell them you are a troll.
For myself, I try my best never to feed them, but trolls are dishonest by definition so one can only tell them from regular people by unfortunate experience.

Cheers ...

[lonelywombat]

Its a pity it takes you 12.5 hours,it only takes me 5.5 hrs !
I can leave on Friday Afternoon and be in BKK at 2230,then leave on Sunday night and bein Sydney on Monday morning at 0600.Its such a pity you took off to Canada!

s.

This would be the flights you use then
Sydney to Bangkok -
Sydney 16:40 Bangkok 22:50 QF301 flight time 9h 10m non stop

Bangkok to Sydney -
Bangkok18:15 Sydney 06:05+1 QF302 flight time 8h 50m non stop

time difference between Sydney and Bangkok 3 hours

[GWMinUS]

For the benefit of those who have not visited the Khmer temple at Prasat Phanom Rung.
I offer an example of the Linga!!!
And if you want to see it close up and personal, please contact Khun Suphot!!!

But I agree, the Deluxe Cattle Car on EVA is worth the extra money!!!

Cheers,
George

http://upload3.postimage.org/182279/05_PRung_013.jpg (http://upload3.postimage.org/182279/photo_hosting.html)

You can be sure that if Airbus actually go through with implementing the "stand-up" seat configuration, IT companies will be the first to require their employees to use them!

Sorry Smiles.. I didnt mean to be overly serious.. but I just thought you were giving an unfair review to EVA. After the many, many comments on this board about how much of a bargain the upgrade to Economy deluxe is, I guess I just thought maybe you would have taken some of that advice of your fellow long distance travelers to Thailand... :)

[Bob]

The EVA economy deluxe (evergreen class) is definitely worth the extra couple of hundred dollars. To me, it's not that much different from Northwest business class but a hell of a lot cheaper.
EVA indeed is bringing the 777's online and I've had the opportunity to fly twice in them.....and, so far, the nicest plane I've
flown in (again, I had the evergreen class which is called "elite" class in the 777's).

Had an incredibility hard (impossible) time finding a flight from Ewr out to Bkk in mid June using evergreen delux on Eva. I ended up using my mileage on Nwa to fly from Pit to Lax and then out to Bkk on Eva total cost was 1645. Prices up beacuse of fuel increases.

[cottmann]

.... Prices up beacuse of fuel increases.

And who is to blame?

Been doing the long trip (lax - bkk) about 2 -3 times a year on JAL for about 10 years now. I usually use the same time frames and often get the same cabin crew. Usually if there are places to sleep i.e. three empty seats together, one of the crew will manage to place me there. So if you can, make friends with the cabin crew and they will take care of you.

And for myself, who doesn't really enjoy flying, it is one valium for take-off and some nice sleeping pills from a Pattaya pharmacy for the rest of the trip. If my legs are cramped...I don't know about it! :drunken:

[wowpow]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v27/wowpow/nplane19.jpg

By David Millward, Transport Correspondent The Daily Telegraph. (Filed: 19/05/2006)

Rather like seeing a television star in the flesh, the first sight of the Airbus A380 was a bit of a disappointment to many who gathered to see its debut at Heathrow yesterday. They were told to expect a behemoth, but the world's biggest commercial airliner proved to be a squat beast with the build of a rugby prop forward. "It's stubby and fat," said a worker with an airline that has bought several A380s. "It looks like a Cuban cigar," muttered somebody else, while a politician said the plane had an obesity problem.

In fairness, the Airbus was not showing its best side as it taxied past Pier 6 at Terminal Three, which was built for ┬г105 million to accommodate the double decker super jumbo, which has a maximum cruising speed of 660mph. When it turned round and pointed its nose towards the building the plane became almost a thing of beauty. At least that is what it was to Tony Douglas, Heathrow's managing director, as he gazed at the elegant curves of its 261ft 8in wingspan. "Look at that," he sighed. "There are no straight lines on it at all. But I am an engineer, I see things differently."

Mike Bannister, the former Concorde chief pilot, was equally smitten. "It is a beautiful airplane, especially the wings. It does look a little stubby, but there are plans for a stretch version and that will look much prettier."

But the Airbus will be judged on much more than its aesthetics. It is at the heart of a major debate on how we will fly in the future. The European consortium has gone for the "hub and spoke" model. It believes passengers will travel to major airports on huge aircraft such as the A380, before boarding smaller planes to reach peripheral destinations. Boeing, the Airbus's main rival, prefers "point to point", with travellers taking smaller planes to their destination. Airbus has 159 firm orders for the A380 from 16 airlines. But British Airways is not one of them. BA is content to carry on with its existing fleet, following the strategy of Sir Rod Eddington, the former chief executive, who preferred to wait and see how the new Airbus fared before deciding whether to buy the plane. In any case, anyone willing to pay the ┬г159 million list price would have to wait until 2011 before taking delivery.

Singapore Airlines, which in November will be the first carrier to take delivery of the plane, expects to operate its inaugural flight - to Sydney - before the end of the year. Its first Heathrow flight will take place in January. Depending on how the plane is configured, the A380 can hold up to 644 passengers, although in most cases it will probably carry fewer. "People talk about the plane having Jacuzzis and bowling alleys," said Marvin Tan, the Singapore Airlines general manager in Britain and Ireland. "I don't think we will see that. But, of course, if we can find the passengers willing to pay for it, then maybe."

Heathrow is one of 66 airports capable of handling the aircraft and, in particular, its enormous wingspan. By 2009, it will be able to cope with 24 of them at the same time. There was less enthusiasm from locals, even though the plane - albeit without passengers - was as quiet as the manufacturers claimed. "It was certainly less noisy than a Boeing 747," said John Stewart, the chairman of the campaign group Heathrow Association for the Control of Aircraft Noise. "But given that it was empty, the jury is out. But it was much more visibly intrusive; I expected something sleeker and smarter."

But that did not deter hundreds of plane spotters who descended on Heathrow and the surrounding area to catch a glimpse of the A380. Bill Mullard, 52, a local government officer from Manchester, had no regrets about travelling from the north and grabbing his pitch at 5.45am. "It was well worthwhile."

I watched the landing of the A380 on tv and I nearly bit my nails down to the bone. Was it just me or was the fat bugger of a beast rolling all over the place? The wings were going up and down, the plane was rocking and on touch down the bugger's wheels produced a cloud of smoke. It isn't the most beautiful of aeroplanes (it takes one fat ugly bastard to know another one) but I guess if it produces cheaper air tickets and fills all the seats then it will be deemed a success.

It was very windy in London yesterday midday and overnight - so much so that I roped down my patio umbrellas and other furniture. I kept an eye out for the beasty as I was working from home yesterday and a lot of Heathrow traffic from both north and south turns near the Tower to follow the line of parks and commons down to Heathrow.

However, I gather it came in from the west and touched it's left wheels down first with highly flexible (British) wings "flapping like a pigeon" according to one report I've seen.

[BenCH]

Here the link to a video showing the landing in Heathrow:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4990780.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4990780.stm)

Quite a bumpy approach. I could not see the wings "flapping like a pigeon", however ...

Indeed. That quote was from "OutintheUK". So unlike that crowd to exagerate.

Airbus has not logged one single sale of the A380 in 2006. It looks like the "Hub and Spoke" method is losing big time to Boeings Point-to-Point model. The Mid size 787 is selling like hotcakes. Great for me.. my Boeing Stock has gone from about $35 a share last year to close to $90 now. Great for my Retirement fund! The 787 will be a real pleasure to fly in. The first airliner with normal humidity levels inside instead of 2% all airplanes use now, plus it will be pressurized at 6000' instead of 8000'.. reducing jet lag considerably (Most Jet Lag is actually caused by altitude sickness.. the human body does not like altitudes above 6000' for long periods of time)

OK. I gotta fess up.. I work for Boeing LOL

The BBC:

"Airbus - a joint venture between European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS) and BAE Systems - has secured 149 confirmed orders for the A380 from 14 customers, including 11 passenger airlines. Airlines have taken options on a further 100 planes."

Its a pity it takes you 12.5 hours,it only takes me 5.5 hrs !
Well I always fly Economy Class and most times at check in they give me 3 seats to myself or 2 seats.

Is that because they realise that no sane person would be willing to sit next to you for 5 hours?