two gay suicides in usa

[Wesley]

http://www.glsen.org/cgi-bin/iowa/all/news/record/399.html

40 % gay compared to 10 % straight high schools students in Massachusetts , they seem to suffer an unusual rate of suicides a year. I wonder how many here consider it. I was talking to a guy who said to me it seemed to be the only way out. His parents are religious the straights Bully him and he is as rich as hell, so why die he is only 21. I wonder what the rate there in Thailand is, since Asians tend to feel more uncomfortable with this than most Europeans.

( see above (URL) for a rather long Article on the issue

[maxdamron]

Sadly enough, this week alone there were two gay teens who committed suicide, one in New Jersey and the other in Texas. A 13 year old boy who was bullied for both being gay and being a Buddhist shot himself after enduring ongoing bullying from classmates. The parents went to the school and were not even given the courtesy of a meeting with the administration. The school completely turned their back on the situation and now claim that they had no idea of what was going on. In New Jersey, a freshman at Rutgers University was the victim of the most humiliating form of bullying. He had asked his roommate to give him their room for a few hours even though he knew his roommate was a homophobe. The roommate turned on his computer and pointed the webcam to the victim's bed. This poor kid had his session with a friend streamed live on the net. The bastard went so far as to tweet what was going on so more would watch. Our young gay brother, a talented violinist wrote on his blog that he was going to the George Washington Bridge to jump. And he did.
When will this end?

[Beachlover]

Did you hear about the American college student who killed himself after his room mate filmed and put a video of him having sex with another guy in their dorm room online? Freaking terrible...

[jinks]

after his room mate filmed and put a video of him having sex with another guy in their dorm room online? Freaking terrible...


The roommate turned on his computer and pointed the webcam to the victim's bed. This poor kid had his session with a friend streamed live on the net.

Is it currently the fashion to record sex?

[Brad the Impala]

Same horrible incident

[Beachlover]

Oh yeah, I didn't read the post above mine... too thick with words.

Jinks, take a look at xtube.com ... plenty of recorded sex there LOL. Except in most cases people are aware they're being recorded.

What that room mate did was unbelievably slack. I wouldn't say he killed the guy but he did breech his privacy in a huge way, which resulted in his suicide.

[maxdamron]

Beachlover, I could not possibly agree with you more. More to the point, so does the state of New Jersey which is charging the two students with invasion of privacy and are looking into charging them with a hate crime. What is even more amazing to me is that this horribly tragic episode has exploded all over the media here. CNN is doing a whole week of reports on bullying. Rutgers University has expelled the two students and has held 3 vigils in memory of the young man. I just wonder if this was the event that will galvanize the public here to stand up against bullying in general and gay bullying in particular. I guess only time will tell.

[Beachlover]

It'll definitely shine a spotlight on the unique emotional challenges young gay people face and go some way towards changing society's attitudes, understanding and behaviour in relation to gay people. All for the better.

I think these things take time and events like these help them progress.

For example, I reckon five years ago, using term, "partner" wasn't that common. Now a days I hear straight/married couples use the term, "my partner" instead of "my boyfriend/girlfriend/wife/husband" more often than not. So much so that I'm meeting someone new I'm often left hanging whether "their partner" is a guy or girl (i.e. are they straight or gay)! I only get to know if they start referring to "their partner" as him or her in conversation.

This kind of thing makes gay people blend into society that much more seamlessly (e.g. makes gay couples nothing out of the ordinary).

[Impulse]

I don't think the blame should be totally on his roomate.sure,it was wrong what he did,but it's more of a culmination of events in this guy's life.
The church,his family,etc,all leading him to feeling shame for being gay.It's more society in general.It's too bad that at his young age,his world in college is everything to him.Just like high schoolers thinking their whole world revolves around what their peers think of them.
There is life after school and social pressure.Hell,too bad he wasn't aware of thailand.He could have started over there.

[Beachlover]

You're totally right.

That's why a gay couple in the US has started this terrific, "It Gets Better" campaign aimed at teens and young gays. It really hits the nail on the head.

It hasn't gone past being a YouTube channel yet (not that this is anything to sneeze at) so I hope it expands:
-------------------------------------

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-te ... 16a69.html (http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-technology/gay-community-sends-video-message-it-gets-better-20101008-16a69.html)

Gay community sends video message: It gets better
LEANNE ITALIE
October 8, 2010 - 11:20AM

David Valdes Greenwood was 15 when he climbed to the highest arch of a bridge in his small Maine town and got ready to jump.

It was 1982. He was distraught over a pastor's Sodom and Gomorrah sermon that his homosexuality would bring God's wrath down on everyone around him. He didn't think his friends, family and fellow churchgoers deserved to suffer because he was gay.

"It had never occurred to me that I would wound people by my simply existing," Greenwood said. "And it seemed kind of true."

So he became that boy on the Sophie May Lane Bridge in Norridgewock. Thankfully, a neighbor walked by and shouted for him to stop fooling around up there _ and he listened, then he fled town the first chance he got.

All grown up, married to a man he loves with a 5-year-old daughter they adore, the 43-year-old Greenwood hopes gay young people in pain will now listen to him. So do hundreds of others who, like Greenwood, have taken to YouTube to make a promise: If you hang on through the self-doubt, the coming out years, through the slurs, the isolation at school and being slammed up against the lockers, through the rejection and anger of parents and grandparents, it gets better. A whole lot better.

Moved by a recent spate of suicides by teens who were believed to be victims of anti-gay bullying, syndicated relationship and sex advice columnist Dan Savage began the YouTube project Sept. 21, hoping it would turn into exactly what it is: A destination for gay young people to receive comfort from a variety of perspectives on their Internet home turf.

There's a gay cop and an ex-Mormon, a young Muslim from a conservative Pakistani home, gay parents showing off photos of their kids and an openly gay Baptist minister.

Mixed in with somber stories of suicide attempts are a sassy lesbian cartoon, a video with gay men surrounded by shirtless male hotties, and a sprinkling of celebrities: Ellen DeGeneres, Tim Gunn from "Project Runway," Chris Colfer from "Glee" and blogger Perez Hilton, who went to a Jesuit high school in Miami and said in his contribution, "I would have loved to have had me around when I was a teenager."

There are gay people who confess THEY were the bullies and people with guitars singing. Cities and campuses (San Francisco, Smith College) are represented. There's also a lot of anger and frustration that the middle and high school years for so many gay youth haven't changed all that much since Greenwood was a kid.

"I really, really believed that kids killing themselves over being gay was a relic of another time," Greenwood, a writer and English instructor at Tufts University near Boston, said in an interview. "I mean, it was nearly 30 years ago when I climbed my bridge. I thought that even kids who were bullied now had online communities or other ways of feeling hope about their identities."

Savage, a gay rights activist who also writes books, travels the country speaking, but he knows many towns and schools will never invite him. That's one reason he set up the "It Gets Better" channel on YouTube and asked for video stories, starting with himself and his partner, Terry.

In two weeks, the channel has racked up more than a million views, the number of videos has exploded from a handful to 1,000 submitted, comment threads are growing and e-mails are pouring in from bullied and closeted teens.

"We're totally overwhelmed by the response," Savage said. "The most gratifying are parents sitting down at the computer and watching with their kids. So many kids, they're bullied at school by their peers, they go home to homophobic parents who bully them, and then they're dragged to church on Sunday for more bullying from the pulpit."

Sitting in an airport reading about the deaths of Minnesota 15-year-old Justin Aaberg and 15-year-old Billy Lucas, who killed himself in his family's barn in Greenburg, Ind., Savage knew the power of his own story, his years in Catholic boys schools as the son of a church deacon and a lay minister.

"High school was bad," Savage said. "I was picked on because I liked musicals. I was obviously gay."

But his parents came around. So did his partner's family in Spokane, Wash., where Terry was stuffed into bathroom stalls and school officials dismissed his parents' complaints about bullying as a natural consequence of being gay. They've been together 16 years and adopted their 12-year-old son, D.J., at birth.

"I didn't think when I came out to my parents in the very early 1980s when AIDS was slamming into the gay community that I would ever be a dad," Savage said in their video.

It's been 40 years since Stephen Sprinkle was in high school. At 58, he rocks gently in an office chair, his trim gray beard and gentle smile offering a touch of Santa Claus in his video. He describes his Christian upbringing in rural North Carolina and his decision to deny himself an "affectional life" as a gay man when he received his call to the ministry in his 20s.

"It made me lonely for a lot of years," he tells his viewers, as he constantly looked over his shoulder and lived in fear he would slip up and reveal his secret.

It wasn't until he was hired as an assistant professor at Brite Divinity School in Fort Worth, Texas, that he decided to come out "utterly, fully and completely," surviving attempts to have him fired and earning tenure, Sprinkle said in an interview.

Since posting the video, he's heard from several young people, including one so upset that Sprinkle tracked down professional help.

"He's 18. He's a closeted religious person and he told me he was afraid he was going to explode," Sprinkle said. "He kept asking over and over, `Does God hate me?' I said 'Heavens, no. God created you beautiful and complete. God makes no mistakes like that.'"

Nicholas Wheeler, a graphic designer who grew up Mormon in Idaho, said he no longer thinks much about God. He made his video because he knows that other kids from conservative, religious backgrounds "don't make it out alive. It breaks my heart."

Wheeler, 26, said being gay didn't fit into the picture in his head of how his life would turn out. In deep denial for years, he didn't come out until 2008, after going on a two-year church mission trip at 20. He had to dismiss his thoughts "of gay people as evil and unhappy."

His turning point came after he moved to Salt Lake City, where he met lots of gay ex-Mormons, and stopped thinking of himself as a sinner. Things aren't perfect, but "I'm leaps and bounds happier than I was," he said in an interview.

So is 28-year-old Bruce Ortiz, who works in marketing in Chicago. He tried to kill himself with a bottle of pills as a freshman in college. Healing was slow but steady after he opened up to his parents about being gay. He and his partner just bought a house together and are thinking about starting a family.

Ortiz's video message to young people: "It's not worth the attempt. Just go out there, find your support system, find that support system within yourself, because life does get better."

___

http://www.youtube.com/user/itgetsbetterproject

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"It gets better" strikes me as more useless gay mantra babble.
Here's one German boy's response to the empty words of "It gets better":

"Is it really the right message to tell queer kids that they should just wait till school is over before their nightmare ends? Is that all we can do? ShouldnтАЩt we help them to get out of it right now? DonтАЩt they have a right to have a good time at school, to think back later without having to remember school as one big torturing game?"

Almost from birth we tell kids that anyone who touches them, or even makes them feel uncomfortable being looked at, to run tell mommy, call the police, or get the fat white cow social worker after the pervert, locking them up and throwing the key away after castrating them. We tell them them they will never recover from this since it is a trauma worse than murder. So then some of these kids realize they are the very people they have been warned about! Is it any wonder they want to kill themselves?

David Wojnarowicz hit the nail on the head in this piece of art he did. This, in fact, was what you first saw when the New Museum in NYC did the massive Wojnarowicz retrospective several years ago as you entered the front doors:
[attachment=0:1rr0mgau]David Wojnarowicz-1990.jpg[/attachment:1rr0mgau]

Here are four more young suicides this year alone in the USA which doesn't even include the Rutgers student:
[attachment=1:1rr0mgau]billyjustinashercody.jpg[/attachment:1rr0mgau]

[Beachlover]

"It gets better" strikes me as more useless gay mantra babble.
Even if this opinion is valid, it is entirely non-constructive. What do you think should be done in place of the "It Gets Better" idea? Nothing at all?

There is no viable way to solve 100% of the problem. This campaign goes part of the way towards addressing the problem and it's viable.

Most importantly, it's being done. It's in action. Criticising it is a pretty "empty" act when one is otherwise doing nothing!


Here's one German boy's response to the empty words of "It gets better":"Is it really the right message to tell queer kids that they should just wait till school is over before their nightmare ends? Is that all we can do? ShouldnтАЩt we help them to get out of it right now? DonтАЩt they have a right to have a good time at school, to think back later without having to remember school as one big torturing game?"

This comment might have positive intentions but it's not pragmatic. When you say, "shouldn't we help them get out of it right now?" who are are you referring to? Who is going to effectively help every gay kid out there who is facing these challenges?

Society's attitudes are changing quickly and there are already many examples of openly gay kids fitting in normally at schools and universities. But it ain't going to become a perfect world in this respect immediately.

Criticising the message behind the campaign by saying, "it's not enough to do this... we should be doing it PERFECT" doesn't help at all.

I think the message is excellent. It looks to the future and helps kids realise great possibilities for the future. It helps them focus on how positive the future can be, rather than get bogged down with the pains of the present. Doing this can help them overcome and get through the current challenges they face.

We all face challenges better when we see a light at the end of the tunnel...


Almost from birth we tell kids that anyone who touches them, or even makes them feel uncomfortable being looked at, to run tell mommy, call the police, or get the fat white cow social worker after the pervert, locking them up and throwing the key away after castrating them. We tell them them they will never recover from this since it is a trauma worse than murder. So then some of these kids realize they are the very people they have been warned about! Is it any wonder they want to kill themselves?

So what is this saying? We shouldn't address the problem of child abuse at all? Some measures go overboard but there is a happy medium and it needs to be done.

[Rene]

Society's attitudes are changing quickly and there are already many examples of openly gay kids fitting in normally at schools and universities. But it ain't going to become a perfect world in this respect immediately.


Get your head out of the sand Beachlover! Things are getting worse, not better. I just read this the other day:

According to a recent survey by Kosciw's group on gay bullying, nine out of 10 gay, lesbian and bisexual students are bullied in school, and they are four times more likely than heterosexuals to attempt suicide.

Students at Manhattan's Harvey Milk High School know those statistics all too well. This is one of the first high schools in the country opened primarily for gay, lesbian and transgender students.

"I think people get scared and fearful and not because they were born into that fear but because it was taught by society," one student said.

I also just read about an 18 year old lesbian student who other students tried to kill by pushing her off a cliff in America. At least one of her student attackers was an underage minor student at the same school.

So Manhattan has to protect their gay students by quarantining them in a special school where they are isolated from the general population. So we have to lock up gays kids to save them. Sounds like the Vietnam war American general who said he had to "destroy the village to save it".

And telling students that "it gets better" in some vague and murky future is akin to the religious freaks telling us if we are good we will be rewarded, but we have to wait until after we die!

[maxdamron]

It gets better is better than nothing but, honestly, not by a whole lot. I spent a couple of hours going through a number of the postings and found myself wondering just what good it does to a 7th grader who just came home from a mean day in class. Is this poor kid being told to suck it up for the next five years? For kids who demand instant gratification, the concept of waiting is foreign and five years? That is an eternity!
I spent 32 years teaching in New York City, the final five in a middle school in the South Bronx. As tough as it is for gay teens in general, it is so much harder for them if they are Black or Hispanic. I stepped in more times than I care to remember to situations that were about to get out of hand. Though I certainly was not going to come out to students, word spread very quickly among the students schoolwide that bullying around me was not the brightest move to make. Do we want to make a real difference and protect our younger brothers and sisters? Train the teachers. Train the school administrators. We are the front line in this battle. Are there many homophobic teachers? You better believe it. Make it mandatory to intervene at the peril of your job! Parents suing schools after the fact is not the answer. Making the schools accountable is.
As for the Harvey Milk High School, sure, it has a stigma attached to it for the students who attend but, at the very least it provides a safe haven for those few fortunate enough to get in. Maybe we need more schools like that. Maybe we need places where teens can escape to when bullied both at school and at home. Do you realize that there are fewer than 500 spaces in the entire U.S. for glbt teens to go if they are on the streets! 500! Someone has to step up. I am sick of turning on the news and hearing of another live lost.

[Beachlover]

Anecdotes and individual events don't prove things are "getting worse".

Many of the challenges of being a gay kid do get better as you become an autonomous adult.

You can point out whatever flaws you like in the message, but you can't deny it will help young people think outside the small world they live in and realise there is a bigger world out there and be happier knowing as they grow up they will have greater freedom to go somewhere ...

For some kid who lives in a small homophobic town or goes to a homophobic school and has little exposure to the wider world, hope and perspective is critical. People don't give up and kill themselves if they know there's a light at the end of the tunnel and are certain things will get better.

[springco]

Anecdotes and individual events don't prove things are "getting worse".


Beachlover, what you hold out isn't even anecdotal evidence. It's the evangelism of popular "feel good" psychology which in many cases leads to even more and worse despair.

In your more than 3000+ posts here I have never seen you offer anything substantial to a discussion. In fact, what is most obvious to even a casual observer is that you use this board as a form of free therapy for yourself which is quite harmless as long as no one takes it seriously. On top of that, the more pompous you become, the higher your get on your already too high horse, the more ludicrous you get.

[Rene]

Ah yes, indeed "it gets better". Every day it gets better and better. This from New York City today, not exactly the small town that Beachlover has conjured up in his delusional fantasy. Here's your "light at the end of the tunnel" and "society's attitudes are changing quickly" that you promised Beachlover, and for the kids who don't kill themselves, this is what they can look forward to:

Sunday 10 October 2010, CBC NEWS

Gang members accused of abducting and brutalizing two teenage boys and a man remained in custody in New York on Sunday, awaiting arraignment, while city leaders vowed not to tolerate what they're calling vicious hate crimes.
Police tape marks the abandoned home in New York City that served as a clubhouse, and alleged torture chamber, for a street gang accused of anti-gay assaults. (David Karp/Associated Press)

Investigators allege the so-called Latin King Goonies, based in the Bronx, began the assaults after identifying a 17-year-old recruit as gay.

The teen was captured and tortured for several hours at an abandoned house that served as a clubhouse in the Bronx, police said. His older friend was also beaten, while a third victim, also 17, was sodomized with a toilet plunger, police said.

An eighth suspect was arrested Saturday, and police were looking for a ninth. The other suspects were taken into custody Thursday and Friday. Four suspects are 17 years old, a fifth is 16, two are 23 and one is 21.


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/10/1 ... z11yHapdSe (http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/10/10/nyc-bronx-gay-torture.html#ixzz11yHapdSe)

[Koh Samui Luv]

Ah yes, indeed "it gets better". and for the kids who don't kill themselves, this is what they can look forward to:


It's getting better in Belgrade today as well where it only takes thousands of police to protect a lesbian:
"It is a shame for me to march, to stand for what I am, and to have thousands of cops protect me from hysteric nationalists," said Milena, 36, a lesbian activist.

October 10, 2010
[attachment=0:3g956t1i]belgrade_anti gay riot.jpg[/attachment:3g956t1i]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... grade.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/serbia/8054094/Anti-gay-protesters-clash-with-police-in-Belgrade.html)

"Anecdotes and individual events don't prove things are "getting worse""

November 23, 2009 - FBI Report Finds Hate Crime at Highest Level since 2001

The number of hate crimes directed at gay men and lesbians increased for the third year in a row тАУ from 1,265 in 2007 to 1,297 in 2008, with a significant increase in the number of gay and lesbian victims тАУ from 1,512 in 2007 to 1,706 in 2008.

According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation Hate Crimes Statistics for 2006, anti-LGB crimes increased by an alarming 18% over the preceding year. The FBI report documented 1,195 incidents in which the perpetratorsтАЩ motivating factor was the victimsтАЩ actual or perceived sexual orientation.

Hate crimes against LGB people account for 16% of all hate crimes in the United States.

By statute, hate crimes against transgender persons are not recorded in the FBI report, so these statistics themselves are an expression of homophobic policy and procedure. Additionally, many hate crimes are under-reported, or inappropriately qualified as suicides or non-hate related events. The statistics, then, ignore many incidents that should rightly be counted as hate crimes against LGBT persons. These deflated numbers themselves contribute to the invisibility of LGBT tragedies in America.

If this were not bad enough, the NCAVP 2008 Report on Anti-LGBTQ Hate Crimes shows a whopping 24% increase in 2007 over 2006. In 2007, there were 2,430 victims.

The following cities and regions showed increases of 100%, or more, when it comes to violent anti-LGBTQ incidents:

Los Angeles тАУ 100%
Minnesota тАУ 135%
Kansas City тАУ 142%
Michigan тАУ 207%

In 2008 we are seeing evidence of a chilling new dimension to the slow slaughter of LGBT people: the victimization of LGBT youths, now being targeted as much for how they present gender as for their sexual orientation. The case of 18-year-old Adolphus Simmons is just one example. On January 21, 2008, Simmons was shot to death while carrying out his trash in North Charleston, South Carolina.

Hasn't and doesn't seem to be "getting better"

[Beachlover]

Sheesh... what a bunch of nit pickers.

So we're discussing (1) whether things have gotten easier for gay people in general and (2) whether being gay gets easier once you grow up.

On (1) whether things have gotten easier for gay people in general:

Wait... So you don't think things have improved at all for gay people in the last 50 years? You don't think it's easier and less inhibiting to be gay now than it was 50 years ago overall?

Gay hate crimes will fluctuate and such for various reasons. It's possible some increase in such crimes can simply be attributed to more gay people being "out".

But gay hate crimes are just one challenge gay people face. I believe social acceptance and understanding of gay people is a hell of a lot better than it was 5, 10 or even 20 years ago. If anyone cares enough to rustle up some research to support or disprove that... be my guest. You're also more likely to be able to do certain things gay couples previously had more trouble with, like have kids, adopt kids or get married, if you are that way inclined. I'd say that's an enormous improvement over past decades.

Didn't some of the members on this board wait until very late in life to come out? Or get married to a woman, have kids and/or endure a loveless relationship? Not saying this doesn't still happen. But I think it's less likely to happen these days. With greater acceptance and awareness, gay people are more inclined to come out and live life the way they want to live, rather than the way straight/religious/family society expects them to live.

(2) whether being gay gets easier once you grow up:

For gay kids who have a hard time being gay when they're young, growing up opens up opportunities to escape these problems and live life more on their own terms, instead of what they might be forced to be surrounded with (class mates, non-accepting family, going to church etc.). So in many instances, things do "get better". Anyone going to dispute this?

As for the "It gets better" campaign...

I think it targets young people struggling with aspects being gay and not having any or many gay people around them and refers to "it" getting better later in life once you've grown up.

Growing up, I didn't know or connect with anyone who was gay. I had no idea how life would turn out. And no examples of life turning out great for gay people to go by... so I could really only see it as a negative thing.

A lot of gay kids experience this. They have no real life examples of successful gay people as reference to the positive aspects of being gay and how life can turn out well. Even worse, some of them have to listen to this rhetoric about homosexuality being bad from their church/parents/mates/whoever. So in many respects, there's not a lot to look forward to.

The campaign presents the stories of lots of gay people who have achieved many of the things in life, which young gay kids may believe are beyond them - due to their sexuality - such as being in a loving relationship, career success, perhaps starting a family and having kids, living in a community where they're accepted and not considered abnormal etc.

Even as a grown up (albeit still in my twenties) gay guy, I find these kind of stories encouraging. It might not do anything at all for you guys who are older and more established/fixed in your life path, but it does for younger people.

since Asians tend to feel more uncomfortable with this than most Europeans.


You're suggesting that Asia is more homophobic than America? Maybe in the Catholicized Philippines (where I understand you often are). I find outside maybe major cities that most of Asia is quite comfortable with with what would be considered <derogatory word omitted> in America.

Google News "gay":

NY State Republican governer candidate apparently doesn't like gays: Carl Paladino Blasts Homosexuality, Says That's 'Not How God Created Us'
"тАЬI just think my children and your children would be much better off and much more successful getting married and raising a family,тАЭ the Republican candidate told one of the groups, тАЬand I donтАЩt want them brainwashed into thinking that homosexuality is an equally valid and successful option. It isnтАЩt.тАЭ"
www.politicsdaily.com/2010/10/11/carl-paladino-blasts-homosexuality-says-thats-not-how-god-cre/

Bronx: After gang thugs viciously beat one of their members in a gay-bashing rampage, they had the nerve to tell ...
www.nypost.com/p/news/local/bronx/beaten_up_by_my_own_family_A4FqRRPx3I55o8C3PatLHL

They were trying to reach the gay pride parade, the first attempt to hold such a parade in the city for almost 10 years. Chanting "death to homosexuals" and ...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBoCNKrG96A&feature=player_embedded#at=21
Here's a YouTube comment ...
"soon america will accept sex with animals and then the world will follow BUT NOT SERBIA!!!!!There is nothing normal abou being gay and if you are keep it to urself there is no need to march and hold hands? Fuk off to America or asutralia and hold hands and amrch all you want!!!!

By the CNN Wire Staff New York (CNN) -- Eight suspects arrested in connection with a series of brutal, anti-gay hate crimes in New York City were arraigned ...
www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/10/new.york.hate.crime.arraignment/?hpt=T2

That's half the first page.



"gay asia" NOTHING violent. Completely different.

Google it, Wes.

I'm not sure all this news helps either.

[maxdamron]

Beachlover, clearly in many ways, opportunities for gays have improved greatly over the last several decades. Yes, in some places gays who wish to can marry. In many places, they can now adopt. Hate laws have been enacted in many places as well. But, given all that, the incidents of gay bashing and harassment, especially of our youth seems to be exploding now. Maybe it is just that these incidents receive more attention now in the world of 24/7 cable news. Maybe it is the anger brought on by the current economic disaster worldwide. But, whatever the reason, to turn a blind eye to this violence is dangerous. Of course, I am looking at it through the eyes of an American seeing what is happening here. But something is making homophobes feel more empowered to act on their hatred. It is a very frightening trend.

The Republican candidate for NY governer says some words were "added" by the group reporting his remarks.

BIG news in America this morning. Networks lashing out at his impropriety. CNN maybe making excuses for him.

I'm glad down here we elected a GLBT mayor in Houston. I wouldn't want to be in NY right now.

There have never been more positive GLBT role models, more mainstream GLBT characters on television, more openly GLBT celebrities, more entrenched GLBT rights, and yet the incidence of bullying and bashing continues to rise.

The "It Gets Better" campaign basically says to young GLBT people, suck it up and hang tough. You do not get the same civil liberties that others do until you get older. Accept your lot in life and hopefully you will overcome the emotional and physical scars and one day find some sort of happiness. Unless of course you are murdered or driven to suicide.

[Brad the Impala]

Indeed in many ways gay people are in as positive a position as they have ever been in recent history. Even in the attack on the gay parade in Serbia, their are positives. Ten years ago the participants wouldn't have dared go on the march, and five years ago the police wouldn't have protected them!

The reason why they have to do so now, and in other Eastern European countries, is the importance of being recognised as being as civilized as other members of longer standing of the EU. So while on the one hand the parade makes it's participants an easier target, and engenders more publicity for the homophobes and their attacks, it also brings out into the open some local attitudes, and forces the governments to act. 50 small homophobic attacks, no publicity, equals no action. One big homophobic attack, international publicity, government shamed(or prompted) into action. Middle of the road members of the public, without strong views, are embarrassed to be perceived as part of a nation that harbours such extreme homophobes and that nudges them to greater acceptance of the "victims" of these attacks.

Of course the 50 small homophobic attacks would not have been recorded as homophobic attacks, and now, in other parts of the world, that have already moved to greater acceptance they are so recorded as required by law. So the number of recorded attacks may go up, but I don't believe, in general, that the number of actual attacks is increasing.

Is there still a way to go? Of course, more so in some areas of the world than others. Have we already come a long way? You bet, the progress in our rights that I have seen in my life time, from being a criminal for my sexuality, to being able to publicly declare my love for my partner and enter into a civil partnership recognized by the law, is a journey that I did not think would be accomplished in this space of time. Indeed when I was young it was unimaginable.

[Beachlover]

You're suggesting that Asia is more homophobic than America? Maybe in the Catholicized Philippines (where I understand you often are). I find outside maybe major cities that most of Asia is quite comfortable with with what would be considered <derogatory word omitted> in America.
I think it really varies widely on where you are (which country in Asia) and who you're with. Can't put Asia under the same umbrella. Thailand is obviously excellent with gays. Taiwan is fantastic and has moved quickly. Cambodia is ok to my limited knowledge.

Some countries are gradually coming out of the dark age: Singapore used to be pretty bad but is improving and the change in attitude there feels surprisingly quick. Malaysia is fairy two-faced. To my knowledge there is a lot of gay life there but societal acceptance is still fairly low and obviously the government/laws are quite against it.

On the other hand other countries are pretty terrible: China is bad but very slowly opening up. I think Vietnam is slowly opening up but it's still very much in the closet and I've heard the government say some bad things in recent years (not sure of the latest). India/Pakistan to my knowledge are also bad.

I don't know much about the States but I think it would vary widely from place to place and between various segments of the community too. You seem to get both ends there, both very open and liberal people and plenty of extremists too.


Maybe it is just that these incidents receive more attention now in the world of 24/7 cable news. Maybe it is the anger brought on by the current economic disaster worldwide. But, whatever the reason, to turn a blind eye to this violence is dangerous. Of course, I am looking at it through the eyes of an American seeing what is happening here. But something is making homophobes feel more empowered to act on their hatred. It is a very frightening trend.
Don't think anyone here is saying to turn a blind eye to it. Certainly not the "it gets better" campaign - just because it addresses one issue doesn't mean it's saying you should ignore other issues.

I think the outrage over these crimes along with the outrage over the Republican candidate's comments, as Ponkk pointed out, shows a large portion, if not the majority of the population condemn these crimes and don't accept it.


The "It Gets Better" campaign basically says to young GLBT people, suck it up and hang tough. You do not get the same civil liberties that others do until you get older. Accept your lot in life and hopefully you will overcome the emotional and physical scars and one day find some sort of happiness. Unless of course you are murdered or driven to suicide.
That's your interpretation of it is indirectly saying.


Is there still a way to go? Of course, more so in some areas of the world than others. Have we already come a long way? You bet, the progress in our rights that I have seen in my life time, from being a criminal for my sexuality, to being able to publicly declare my love for my partner and enter into a civil partnership recognized by the law, is a journey that I did not think would be accomplished in this space of time. Indeed when I was young it was unimaginable.
That's a very rational answer. It has come a long way. But yes, there's still a long way to go.

He must be aiming much higher than just Albany, NY (the state capital og NY). He's dragging in Canada (see remark about Toronto) and said (reported elsewhere) his comments are consistent with the teachings of the Catholic church. But one can only consider it a nonsensible attention getting stunt carefully timed for the US and Canadian holidays (Columbus Day and Canadian Thanksgiving). He claims his opponent Cuomo is responsible for the whole thing for trying to label him anti-Semitic (see video in news article). tWIsTeD. He's from Buffalo, NY. Hmmm snowstorms, star football running backs, and where McKinley was shot. He's the darling of Sarah Palin's tea party (we all know who claims responsibillty for that one). His candidacy for NY Governer (November 2 ballot) is a very LLLLOOOONNNNGGGGG shot.

Cuomo called him a homophobe and said "He's probably the last person I'll take advice from on how to raise my daughters". NYC Republican Mayor Bloomberg is among a growing chorus of political leaders and celebrities demanding an apology. Others are calling for him to leave the race. Shoot from the hip often lands in the foot.


nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/10/11/2010-10-11_carl_paladino_gay_pride_parade_bumping_and_grin ding_offend_tea_party_hero__ny_go.html?r=news/politics


Paladino rages against 'disgusting' gay pride parades

BY DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

Updated: Monday, October 11th 2010, 11:12 PM

Tea Party hero Carl Paladino is a wanted man by the media during Monday's Columbus Day Parade. Below, a protester reacts to Paladino's controversial comments about gays.

Take our Poll Paladino's pronouncements What do you really think of Carl Paladino's outspoken ways?

Related News
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GOP's Paladino takes on media, hits Dem Cuomo with zinger

Buffalo bomb-thrower Carl Paladino branded gay pride parades "disgusting" on Monday - and took a shot at rival Andrew Cuomo for bringing his daughters to one.

The Tea Party blowhard insisted he has nothing against homosexuals, he just doesn't want himself or children exposed to their culture.

He said he was appalled by having seen Toronto gay pride parade marchers wearing "little Speedos and they grind against each other."

"I think it's disgusting," he told NBC's "Today" show.

He hammered Cuomo for bringing his teenage daughters to a gay pride parade earlier this year.

"Is that normal?" he asked on ABC's "Good Morning America." "I don't think it's proper for them to go there.

"Any father who would take his children to such things is not really thinking of the fatherly perspective and is more interested in politics."

Cuomo, marching well ahead of Paladino in the Columbus Day Parade, dismissed the comments as "reckless," "divisive" and "cynical."

"He's probably the last person I'll take advice from on how to raise my daughters," said Cuomo, who last week hired Erik Botcher from City Council Speaker Christine Quinn's staff to handle outreach to the gay community.

Cuomo is pushing to enact gay marriage in New York, while Paladino staunchly opposes it.

Paladino was still stinging from the scorching he took after telling a group of rabbis in Borough Park Sunday that being gay is "not the example that we should be showing our children."

In rejecting gay marriage, he told the rabbis he doesn't want children "brainwashed into thinking homosexuality is an equally valid and successful option - it isn't."

To tamp down claims of homophobia, Paladino made the rounds on morning TV talk shows to plead his case.

"I have, unequivocally, have absolutely no reservations whatsoever about homosexuality," he told Fox News. "I know the difficulties that homosexuals suffer."

He called "absolutely despicable" the recent attacks in the Bronx by nine gang members on a gay man and two gay 17-year-olds.

The millionaire businessman said his nephew is gay - and that he'd actively hire gays for his administration if elected governor.

Asked if he believes being gay is a choice, Paladino admitted, "I've had difficulty with that . . . . My nephew tells me he didn't have that choice."

Paladino's nephew, campaign aide Jeff Hannon, did not respond to requests for comment from the Daily News.

As he marched in the Columbus Day Parade, Paladino waved at supporters - and endured some boos.

He handed lollipops to kids and stopped to greet Archbishop Timothy Dolan.

Paladino was smacked around for his homosexual tirade by gay rights groups and Democrats participating in the parade - and he later took a few shots from fellow Republicans.

Former Mayor Rudy Giuliani, speaking in California, called Paladino's rants "highly offensive" and called on him to apologize, Politico.com reported.

The GOP's attorney general candidate, Dan Donovan, and controller hopeful, Harry Wilson, sharply criticized Paladino's statements on homosexuality.

Apprised of their broadsides, Paladino huffed, "So what?"

State Sen. Tom Duane, a Manhattan Democrat and the only openly gay senator, said Paladino - who has a 10-year-old love child from an extramarital affair - is the last person who should be lecturing on morals.

"I don't think someone who is living a polygamist lifestyle should be the arbiter of what makes a family," Duane said.

[maxdamron]

To say that the vast majority of New Yorkers are embarrassed that the moron of Buffalo is on the ballot should go without saying. The fact that he trails Cuomo by 27 percent in recent polls says that loud and clear. I'm just trying to understand what the 34 percent that support him in the polls could possibly be thinking. Oops, my bad, they obviously don't think at all.

"That's your interpretation of it is indirectly saying"

No - that is my interpretation of what it is directly saying.

While the "it Gets Better" campaign is trying to put out a positive message it is not really doing anything to address the real problem which is the bullying that is happening to so many people in schools today. It's the bullies that grow up to be the bashers.

NB on the anti-gay Republican Candidate for New York State governor: he has APOLOGIZED for his inappropriate comments, according to CNN ...

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/10 ... o.apology/ (http://edition.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/10/13/paladino.apology/)

"Paladino said if he is elected governor, he will fight for the rights of all New Yorkers."

Now Arizona governor race seems to be taking on some gay insults.

[Beachlover]

it is not really doing anything to address the real problem which is the bullying that is happening to so many people in schools today.
1. That is a real problem but it isn't the ONLY problem

2. There's nothing to say the campaign has an obligation to address EVERY problem or not run at all. That's like saying the heart foundation should also address kidney disease.


"Paladino said if he is elected governor, he will fight for the rights of all New Yorkers."

"Paladino, nobody believes you man!"

[Wesley]

"It gets better" strikes me as more useless gay mantra babble.
Here's one German boy's response to the empty words of "It gets better":

"Is it really the right message to tell queer kids that they should just wait till school is over before their nightmare ends? Is that all we can do? ShouldnтАЩt we help them to get out of it right now? DonтАЩt they have a right to have a good time at school, to think back later without having to remember school as one big torturing game?"

Almost from birth we tell kids that anyone who touches them, or even makes them feel uncomfortable being looked at, to run tell mommy, call the police, or get the fat white cow social worker after the pervert, locking them up and throwing the key away after castrating them. We tell them them they will never recover from this since it is a trauma worse than murder. So then some of these kids realize they are the very people they have been warned about! Is it any wonder they want to kill themselves?

David Wojnarowicz hit the nail on the head in this piece of art he did. This, in fact, was what you first saw when the New Museum in NYC did the massive Wojnarowicz retrospective several years ago as you entered the front doors:
[attachment=0:2cd9aiv6]David Wojnarowicz-1990.jpg[/attachment:2cd9aiv6]

Here are four more young suicides this year alone in the USA which doesn't even include the Rutgers student:
[attachment=1:2cd9aiv6]billyjustinashercody.jpg[/attachment:2cd9aiv6]

wow what a great statement about the boy!


David Wojnarowicz-1990.jpg [ 83.65 KiB | Viewed 211 times ]

[Wesley]

[
quote="Beachlover"]Anecdotes and individual events don't prove things are "getting worse".

Many of the challenges of being a gay kid do get better as you become an autonomous adult.

You can point out whatever flaws you like in the message, but you can't deny it will help young people think outside the small world they live in and realise there is a bigger world out there and be happier knowing as they grow up they will have greater freedom to go somewhere ...

For some kid who lives in a small homophobic town or goes to a homophobic school and has little exposure to the wider world, hope and perspective is critical. People don't give up and kill themselves if they know there's a light at the end of the tunnel and are certain things will get better.[/quot

The key word is light at the end of the tunnel, he word is hope, its a huge aspect of surviving anything, the hope you may live with cancer the hope there is a better life to come, the hope people one day will understand. it may not cure the problem but hope it a powerful thing when one is in trouble. Look at the miners who were just rescued , for many it was hope that kept them alive, once one gives up on hope, the next step is suicide or mental anxiety that some never recover from. I stayed with an aunt hat had lung cancer, she believed she would get better after the treatments , when the doctors told her there was little hope she was gone in 3 days, she got in bed and gave up. it was hope that kept her alive for almost a yaer.

Wes

[Wesley]

since Asians tend to feel more uncomfortable with this than most Europeans.


You're suggesting that Asia is more homophobic than America? Maybe in the Catholicized Philippines (where I understand you often are). I find outside maybe major cities that most of Asia is quite comfortable with with what would be considered <derogatory word omitted> in America.

Google News "gay":

NY State Republican governer candidate apparently doesn't like gays: Carl Paladino Blasts Homosexuality, Says That's 'Not How God Created Us'
"тАЬI just think my children and your children would be much better off and much more successful getting married and raising a family,тАЭ the Republican candidate told one of the groups, тАЬand I donтАЩt want them brainwashed into thinking that homosexuality is an equally valid and successful option. It isnтАЩt.тАЭ"
www.politicsdaily.com/2010/10/11/carl-p ... w-god-cre/ (http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/10/11/carl-paladino-blasts-homosexuality-says-thats-not-how-god-cre/)

I live most of the year in the Philippines, the Catholic church has these guys are prayig after they have sex, I actually had a guy sit up in bed after sex and ask God to forgive him. I will say, the gay community there is strong and there are lots of group support systems set up to help with the guilt. I do feel more comfortable there than here by far. I would say that its never easy anywhere you live. Other than the Buddhist I would say religion is the greatest enemy of the mind of young kids who were brought up in a place where its was an abomination if they were gay. Religion instead of offering hope has offered exactly the opposite.

I would say that Amsterdam came to mind when I thought of Europe. In Kyrgyzstan in central Asia as I said in another post my last lover was stabbed 22 Because he was gay and my lover, so this is personal for me. I would love to see an end immediately . However it took years for Blacks to vote and ride on the front of a bus and decades for women to get a chance to vote. We like they, will have our say and I refuse to take away the one thing that can help which as I said, is hope that things will change. I can't say it will be tomorrow but surely one day maybe not now or in another decade I have hope that one day we will be free as well. I think the wa is tje hope of Gandhi or the way to peaceful revolution in this world. So, its odd when I posted my lover was killed and stabbed 22 times there was little or no attention. Now the attention is on the world issue of what is happening among gays and gangs and thugs and churches and conservative families. I don't think anyone in the beginning liked being gay. I know I did all I could not to be gay But, since I came out in 1978 I have never been happier. I was a but dismayed until I found out Thailand, by way of a post by jinks, offered guys that were not age discriminate. Its nice to now that I can go there an leave my worries behind me. But lets be honest this is not going to happen over night and yes the gay community in outraged and they should be. But, immediate change is not going to happen and pragmatism takes me to believe that as beechlover said, its not like it was in 78. and every day better, But, it seems to me at least, to get a little better personally. In society that may not be the case, but the older I get the more I accept the wild side of me and accept me for who I am. it was hope that got me where, I hope I am. They too need hope that we will stand up and fight for freedom on a massive scale. Hopefully this will be the trigger. If not the day, I hope, will come.



Wes

He apologized! I'll leave it alone on that one. But I don't speak for everyone (I have been asssured of that many times!). He could be dogged by this as long as he's in politics.

It seems a rEelATive had something to do with the apology (try some googling).

Yes, I agree 100% with the majority in this thread about "inappropriateness" when people, esp. children, are getting hurt.

Wes aims high in mentioning the external-ness (the western 'god' - just jabbin' ya, Wes, nothing intended). Might I suggest, though, that it's not religion at issue, but that so many of us have been brainwashed by others or by ourselves into believing that it is? That is we seek answers in religion when maybe we should look elsewhere.

Just my thoughts.

[maxdamron]

Well, the idiot of Buffalo has no political future, of that you can be sure. This is his first run for office and, after going down in flames (no pun intended) as he surely will, it will be his last.
As for your comments about religion, I'm afraid that, if anything, religion here in the states encourages anti gay behaviors. I don't know if you've heard about a group from the midwest, actually more a single family with some hangers on. The head of the family claims to be a Baptist minister. He and his "followers" travel around the U.S. and go to the funerals of soldiers killed in battle in Afghanistan. They go to "thank God" for the death of these soldiers because it is divine punishment for the acceptance (albeit limited) of gays in the U.S. Right now, they are involved in a case before the U.S. Supreme Court over freedom of speech. So many preachers, especially in the south, foam at the mouth when preaching what evil creatures we are and how we will all burn in hell. With that as a backdrop, is it any wonder that there is so much homophobia in the south? The rest of the country? Well, there are lots of hateful ministers all over. Instead of love thy brother, they preach hate. I don't see things changing any time soon. It makes it all the more crucial that we be there for our young brothers and sisters. We have lost too many already and each is a precious life to be protected and nurtured.

[Rene]

It makes it all the more crucial that we be there for our young brothers and sisters. We have lost too many already and each is a precious life to be protected and nurtured.
What person in his right mind is going to get anywhere near someone under 18 even if the original intention is noble? Many in the gay community freak out over this issue as well. In fact, many gays remind me of Baptist bible banging preachers in this regard! They even arrest 11 year olds now in America. http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/103937364.html

[maxdamron]

Rene, that was the saddest comment I think I've ever written anywhere. If gay adults, men and women, don't stand up for gay youth, who will? Since this latest spate of suicides, a number of well known gays like Ellen Degeneres have spoken out publicly. Last week, a city council member in Texas spoke for 12 minutes on what it was like for him as a gay teen and how hard it was for him and that he too had considered suicide. That speech was put on YouTube and went viral. Thank God there are many gay adults who are willing to put themselves out there to help gay youth deal with their fears. I understand the fear of being accused of being a pedo, but there are ways to work with gay teens that do not raise that red flag.

[Koh Samui Luv]

Since this latest spate of suicides, a number of well known gays like Ellen Degeneres have spoken out publicly.

Talk is cheap!
And that "city council member in Texas spoke for 12 minutes"? WOW! 12 whole minutes! According to Andy Warhol's theory, he has 3 more minutes of fame to use and then will be heard no more. And if he gives that speech in the same room with a 13 year old gay kid he will be locked up on some variation of the "corruption of youth" mantra.

I saw the following on the web. I can just imagine what the tea-bagging Yanks will do with this one!
[attachment=0:31coebfn]Show your love.jpg[/attachment:31coebfn]

[maxdamron]

So, what would you do then? Just sit back and read the next story about the next gay teen who commits suicide? It's real easy to criticize others and not offer any ideas of what to do. As for the Tea Party, well, they will be responsible for the Dems holding on to the Senate. In the end, they will do more damage to the Republicans. Sadly, in the meantime, we have two years of total stalemate ahead of us.

[Wesley]

As someone who has spent a large portion of their life working with children and being openly gay, I only administrate the program and never get caught alone with a kid boy or girl, people just freak out about gay adults with kids although the statistics overwhelmingly show straight people are the largest offenders.

I will say in regards to religious people being responsible they are in part. However, in general its the straight, pot smoking crack burning, gangs that make the lives of kids miserable, no matter if they go to church or not. Few OR a minority of the evangelical world would say that although wrong they are humans as well and deserve the same rights of straights. now you can pick out some that have to publicly say this is wrong , but the mothers and father that are Christians who have gay kids will be the first to tell you their are other views on this issue that do not align with the fundamentalist in religion. his may not be a majority, but I am sure the majority of gay bullying comes from kids who are just assholes and has nothing to do with church or religion.

Wes

I will say in regards to religious people being responsible they are in part. ... but I am sure the majority of gay bullying comes from kids who are just assholes and has nothing to do with church or religion.


Yes, yes, yes, Wes. Religion isn't the problem. It just exacerbates a lot of problems. Homophobia, world war and overpopulation are just a few that come to my mind.

You'd think we could just do with out it. But you criticize them they claim misunderstanding, attack them they claim persecution, find them guilty they play forgiveness. Round and round the world goes.