Massage tipping at not overtly gay places

[Narakmak]

Say you go to a massage place that isn't a blatant gay whorehouse. For example, that newer place across from Boyztown, cute guys but not a gay only place like Royal. So you go for a 1 hour oil massage and get happily ended? What is a reasonable tip for that? I know the gay whorehouse places expect quite a lot for that but am I correct in assuming the levels are different (lower) at the non-gay places? Of course there is no guarantee for anything sexual at the non-gay places, and of course there is one if you want it at places like Royal.

[francois]

I also would like to know the answer to what is a reasonable tip. My first thought was the tip should equal the cost of the massage.

[travelerjim]

I also would like to know the answer to what is a reasonable tip. My first thought was the tip should equal the cost of the massage.

I think there is a definite trend away from the gay massage shops of past,
like those found in Boyztown, and the Royal House or Blue House Massage in the
DayNight area, and Derby Club and others in Jomtien.

Just my opinion. Why?

There are new shops opening and they are much more affordable,
and the fellas may please you just as well. In fact I have found them to be better
at giving a massage than those found in the gay shops.

There are many new massage places around TukCom area of South Pattaya.
.....Somjit Massage just opened - 1 hour oil massage 200 baht.
located West side of TukCom, close to AuBuerre Restaurant. Real clean & NEW.
The boys there will take good care of you.

Your suggested tip is OK and happily received by the fellas,
hoping you will come back and see them again soon.

Also, additional massage shops in the area:
.....The shop next to Salt & Pepper Restaurant - 1 hour oil 200 baht.
.....The shop across from TukCom - South side - 1 hour oil 200 baht.
.....The shop across from DayNight2 Hotel...1 hour oil 250 baht.

These are not overtly gay massage shops, but you may be surprised, Up to You?

tj

I also would like to know the answer to what is a reasonable tip. My first thought was the tip should equal the cost of the massage.

I think there is a definite trend away from the gay massage shops of past,
like those found in Boyztown, and the Royal House or Blue House Massage in the
DayNight area, and Derby Club and others in Jomtien.

Just my opinion. Why?

There are new shops opening and they are much more affordable,
and the fellas may please you just as well. In fact I have found them to be better
at giving a massage than those found in the gay shops.

There are many new massage places around TukCom area of South Pattaya.
.....Somjit Massage just opened - 1 hour oil massage 200 baht.
located West side of TukCom, close to AuBuerre Restaurant. Real clean & NEW.
The boys there will take good care of you.

Your suggested tip is OK and happily received by the fellas,
hoping you will come back and see them again soon.

Also, additional massage shops in the area:
.....The shop next to Salt & Pepper Restaurant - 1 hour oil 200 baht.
.....The shop across from TukCom - South side - 1 hour oil 200 baht.
.....The shop across from DayNight2 Hotel...1 hour oil 250 baht.

These are not overtly gay massage shops, but you may be surprised, Up to You?

And here are some of the massage fellas:

[travelerjim]

Very good Ian ... :rolling:

I'll let you go to those fellas for your massage,
and I will go to the other places I mentioned in my post. :headbang:

tj

[pennyboy]

IMHO I would not tip less than 500bt for a happy ending massage.

For a bit of slap and tickle with the massage a tip equal to the cost of the massage seems appropriate to me.

[mahjongguy]

IMHO I would not tip less than 500bt for a happy ending massage. For a bit of slap and tickle with the massage a tip equal to the cost of the massage seems appropriate to me.
Assuming that the massage was at least fair to middlin', I agree completely.

[francois]

The massage house I had in mind was across 2nd Road from Boyztown. The massage is excellent however they don't seem to go all the way, although friends have said otherwise. I recall the two hour massage cost about 500 or 600 Baht plus the tip.

[mahjongguy]

The massage house I had in mind was across 2nd Road from Boyztown. The massage is excellent however they don't seem to go all the way, although friends have said otherwise. I recall the two hour massage cost about 500 or 600 Baht plus the tip.
That's the new location for Smart Massage. Used to be across and down the street a bit.

The new facility is bound to be a great improvement over the old dump, but I don't get a good feeling about the guys there. They've always struck me as being straight guys who masquerade as gay.

[Diec]

IMHO I would not tip less than 500bt for a happy ending massage. For a bit of slap and tickle with the massage a tip equal to the cost of the massage seems appropriate to me.
Assuming that the massage was at least fair to middlin', I agree completely.

When I am in Thailand I generally tip 1,000 to 2,000 baht for a massage. When I go out to eat I usually tip what the cost of the meal is. Meaning if the meal cost 1,000 baht, that is what I tip. Before I was engaged to get married, when I would off a boy I would pay the agreed upon price and give a 1.000 baht tip plus taxi fair. Here in the states, I only tip 20 percent.

And the point of this extravagance?

[Narakmak]

Let me get this correct for confirmation, as I am a little surprised.
You pay 300 baht for example for a one hour oil massage (for example) at a non-whorehouse type place.
You get the massage, and a 5 minute quickie wank off at the end.
Most of you agree the tip for that is a minimum 500 baht?
I would think more like 200 to 300 baht.
More feedback sought.

[travelerjim]

Let me get this correct for confirmation, as I am a little surprised.
You pay 300 baht for example for a one hour oil massage (for example) at a non-whorehouse type place.
You get the massage, and a 5 minute quickie wank off at the end.
Most of you agree the tip for that is a minimum 500 baht?
I would think more like 200 to 300 baht.
More feedback sought.

N,

IMHO...Your 200-300 tip is OK and gladly accepted.
IF I choose to do a second hour...and that on occasion - does happen..
then I give a tip of 500 baht plus the cost of two hours (200 baht per hr x 2)
Again a very happy acceptance..with "You come again tomorrow?"
The fellas know I live in Pattaya and do appreciate the year round repeat customer.

I enjoy a good oil massage at the non-sexual massage shops once a week,
and a foot & leg massage once a week also (100 baht - 1 hour + tip of 40 baht).

I am sure from reading the posts, there are those more generous.
I gather most of them are on "holiday" and here to have a "happy time".

Up to You!

tj

[pudel]

@Diec: my dear you are spoiling the massage boys and the waiters :evil4: after you were on one of these places
they expect from all customers these too generous tippings <greetings from pudel

[Narakmak]

I don't think the odd person who tips 100 percent for meals changes the culture much. I think they would just be thought of as foolish and of course happy for the gift but not so stupid as to think that is anything close to normal.

[lonelywombat]

I don't think the odd person who tips 100 percent for meals changes the culture much. I think they would just be thought of as foolish and of course happy for the gift but not so stupid as to think that is anything close to normal.

Does he thinks it buys him respect. The boys would laugh at him behind his back as a stupid farang.

[Wesley]

Say you go to a massage place that isn't a blatant gay whorehouse. For example, that newer place across from Boyztown, cute guys but not a gay only place like Royal. So you go for a 1 hour oil massage and get happily ended? What is a reasonable tip for that? I know the gay whorehouse places expect quite a lot for that but am I correct in assuming the levels are different (lower) at the non-gay places? Of course there is no guarantee for anything sexual at the non-gay places, and of course there is one if you want it at places like Royal.

I got several massages in the Babylon Baths, non seemed to be sexual in nature and I felt like they were going to break something. But I did feel much better afterward. But, I like a bit of pain any way when I play. pain and sex can be a doable edged sword. I would assume there are no S&M bars in Pattaya. In Bangkok you can find anything for enough money.

[Narakmak]

I don't think the odd person who tips 100 percent for meals changes the culture much. I think they would just be thought of as foolish and of course happy for the gift but not so stupid as to think that is anything close to normal.

Does he thinks it buys him respect. The boys would laugh at him behind his back as a stupid farang.
I agree with that. I was trying to be diplomatic.

[mahjongguy]

Does he thinks it buys him respect. The boys would laugh at him behind his back as a stupid farang.

I agree with that. I was trying to be diplomatic.
I disagree entirely. It's just an excuse for not tipping well. "By god, I'll not have them laughing at me!".

Tipping a masseur 50 baht and congratulating yourself for giving him a generous 25% of the shop fee is the worst sort of self-delusion.

[Narakmak]

We weren't talking about tipping well. We were talking about tipping absurdly. Such as 300 baht to the waiter for a 300 baht meal. That's just stupid and the waiter knows it too.

[cdnmatt]

We weren't talking about tipping well. We were talking about tipping absurdly. Such as 300 baht to the waiter for a 300 baht meal. That's just stupid and the waiter knows it too.

Yeah, I sometimes see farangs who do that type of thing, and throw their money around. I don't really get it.

Do people believe by throwing money around like its toilet paper, Thais will like them more, or something? It's almost always the opposite, and the vast majority will think you're an idiot.

[bao-bao]

Does he thinks it buys him respect. The boys would laugh at him behind his back as a stupid farang.
Those are the stories I've heard... and word travels fast, too. So much is about saving "face", and grossly over-tipping is not the way to do that. Just my two satang.

[Patexpat]

Does he thinks it buys him respect. The boys would laugh at him behind his back as a stupid farang.
Those are the stories I've heard... and word travels fast, too. So much is about saving "face", and grossly over-tipping is not the way to do that. Just my two satang.

Yes, tend to agree Bao Bao ... over tipping may buy you lots of new 'friends' but not respect........

[mahjongguy]

Does he thinks it buys him respect. The boys would laugh at him behind his back as a stupid farang.
Those are the stories I've heard... and word travels fast, too. So much is about saving "face", and grossly over-tipping is not the way to do that. Just my two satang.

Yes, tend to agree Bao Bao ... over tipping may buy you lots of new 'friends' but not respect........
First of all, you need to disassociate getting a massage from having a meal.

If you tip 20% in a restaurant (with a 40 baht per person minimum) then in my view you're a fine fellow.

But the amount you pay a masseur is NOT A TIP. It is his payment. If you think of it as a tip just because it is an unspecified amount then you are willfully and selfishly ignoring the truth of the situation.

Paying someone fairly for their work, doing your part to see that they at least have enough to buy dinner that day, has nothing to do with buying their affection or respect. It's about having SELF-respect.

[Narakmak]

Agreed restaurant tipping and massage tipping are different things indeed.
However, it is certainly not the custom in Thailand to tip 20 percent on restaurant meals. That's an American thing. The restaurant tipping culture is much different, and much less generous. Typically Thais will tell you a 20 baht set tip on most any meal is adequate, you can tip more of course, but you don't need to as you would in some western countries.

In the "non-overtly gay" massage shops the 200 baht fee for the service is generally split 50/50 between the house and the server. A 50 baht tip is considered okay and 100 baht is considered generous for a Thai massage. They expect at least a 200baht tip minimum for a happy ending and are very, very happy to receive 500 baht.

If you ask a boy what tip he wants, he will tell you he wants 500 baht... and he is being honest, of course.

There are a few boys and lady boys in the DayNight area pulling in 30,000 baht a month.... good for them!

The lady masseuses generally receive less in tips from their straight customers for a happy ending.

(I have no information about the massage shops and tips along Walking street, Beach Rd. and hotels.)

[pudel]

In Chiang Mai in most gay massage places its written that the minimum tip is 600 Baht (the cheapest massage is
also 600 Baht) so there is NO discussion. Many Asians (not only Thais) think money is growing on trees
in Western Countries....because we are sometimes too generous with tips <Kurt
PS. Nobody asks if the ending was happy or not :tongue3:

[Narakmak]

In Chiang Mai in most gay massage places its written that the minimum tip is 600 Baht (the cheapest massage is
also 600 Baht) so there is NO discussion. Many Asians (not only Thais) think money is growing on trees
in Western Countries....because we are sometimes too generous with tips <Kurt
PS. Nobody asks if the ending was happy or not :tongue3:
Yes I am aware of these levels, but my initial question was about massage places that are less blatantly sexually oriented. This isn't really very unusual that the pricing for the same thing is different at different venues. For example, you can pay 30 baht for pad krapow or 200 baht, depends on the setting. The 30 baht version is often better.

[Beachlover]

And the point of this extravagance?

The point is, diec (the poster you were questioning) is a troll... It's bullcrap. He's just trying to wind you up.

[francois]

And the point of this extravagance?

The point is, diec (the poster you were questioning) is a troll... It's bullcrap. He's just trying to wind you up.

Beaucoup trolls on this forum.

[netrix]

We weren't talking about tipping well. We were talking about tipping absurdly. Such as 300 baht to the waiter for a 300 baht meal. That's just stupid and the waiter knows it too.

when i go out to eat with thai friends and it's time to pay, i usually give my
money to my friend to let him pay. if instead i start to leave a tip i usually get scolded
and told to leave nothing or only a small tip. i guess thais only expect big tips in
5 star places geared towards westerners. unless we're talking about moneyboys.

i've never been to a massage place but it seems 300% - 500% times the service
fee is a bit extreme.

[Beachlover]

Tipping is really an American practice. It's not expected in Asia. You pay the rate that you see. You'll rarely see an Asian tipping in a restaurant or bar.

I don't tip taxi drivers, restaurants or bar staff at all most of the time, other than to dump loose change. I occasionally tip bell boys.

I do often tip for services, which are more personal and involving like a long taxi ride, guide or massage therapist. I tend to tip well for a good massage - I guess because I appreciate the difference between a poor or average massage and the skill and effort it takes to do a really good massage and make the most of that time - so I tend to go back to good therapists.

[bao-bao]

Tipping is really an American practice. It's not expected in Asia. You pay the rate that you see. You'll rarely see an Asian tipping in a restaurant or bar.
Not just American, but if you'll notice - unless you're in a fancy hotel or restaurant frequented by Westerners or obvious tourists with more money than the locals serving them - as an Asian you probably don't get the practiced "pause" as they look at you for a tip since it's not as much of the "norm" in Asia. For we Big Pink Guys I think they at least expect they have a hope in Hell of getting a tip! :rolling:

[Beachlover]

Yep, you brought it on yourselves! Look, service people will grab whatever they can take. They want money.

For a short period when I worked in the tourism/service industry I used to looooooooove Americans and their big fat tips LOL.

They often seemed so lost lugging their huge suitcases around, there was nothing like doing something wonderful (in their eyes) or pulling a favour and getting a, "oh god bless ya" big fat tip from them :) ... They often tipped in USD so I would end up with hundreds of USD to go and exchange.

[cdnmatt]

Tipping is really an American practice. It's not expected in Asia. You pay the rate that you see. You'll rarely see an Asian tipping in a restaurant or bar.

True, they don't tip much, but tipping in Thailand can go a long way. Just small amounts too. 20 baht to the parking guy, 100 baht to the security guy at the club, another 50 baht to the waiter, etc. Especially if you're a regular at the place. Don't tip too much, because then they'll think you're an idiot. Spread the wealth a little bit though, and you'll always be well taken care of.

It's definitely worth the couple hundred baht here and there.

[Beachlover]

Yeah, totally true. I call that strategic tipping. Slipping some money in someone's hand is often a neat way to get things done and taken care of. Come to think of it, I tend to tip security guards and night watchman sometimes in some situations. For some reason, I think it's a good idea to keep them happy.

But if it's a place, I couldn't give a toss about, like the cafe I just stopped by for a meal and some laptop time, I don't tip. Just pay the listed price.

As a farang knowing how little the wages are in the service businesses here I think it is in bad form not to tip unless of course their was a problem with the service or a service charge is included in the bill.

If you are pleased with a particular service folding a bank note up in the palm of your hand and slipping it unseen to the waiter/ess etc.. is a great way of showing your thanks and making sure that he/she is the one to get the tip and not have to share it.
Keeping your security guard/s happy is also a good idea as they in turn will look after you and much appreciate the tip as their wages are not the best. If I used a place on a regular bases I would always give the guards a few bottles of whiskey and perhaps a carton of cigarettes on leaving, not expensive but much appreciated by them.

[Beachlover]

Yeah, I think it's good to tip in a restaurant or cafe if you've had particularly outstanding service in some way. Otherwise, for standard/normal service, I don't tip other than with spare change.

Hey, I've done the whiskey bottle for the security guard before. It was a half bottle leftover from the night and I knew I was going to other clubs/discos on subsequent nights and wouldn't be using it so I just gave it to him on my way him. Boy was he happy! Good idea.

I usually don't care about low wages in the service business. They took the job. They accept the rate. As a customer, it's not your responsibility to compensate for low wages, as you do in America. . If they do something really outstanding, then give an appropriate tip. Otherwise, let the business owner pay them

Yeah, I think it's good to tip in a restaurant or cafe if you've had particularly outstanding service in some way. Otherwise, for standard/normal service, I don't tip other than with spare change.

Hey, I've done the whiskey bottle for the security guard before. It was a half bottle leftover from the night and I knew I was going to other clubs/discos on subsequent nights and wouldn't be using it so I just gave it to him on my way him. Boy was he happy! Good idea.

I usually don't care about low wages in the service business. They took the job. They accept the rate. As a customer, it's not your responsibility to compensate for low wages, as you do in America. . If they do something really outstanding, then give an appropriate tip. Otherwise, let the business owner pay them


Perhaps that might be the reason waiters and bellmen seem more interesting in pleasing the farangs.

[francois]

Tipping is really an American practice. It's not expected in Asia. You pay the rate that you see. You'll rarely see an Asian tipping in a restaurant or bar.
.

You must be an Australian?

[mahjongguy]

"I usually don't care about low wages in the service business. They took the job. They accept the rate."

Yup, if some guy chooses to be a busboy instead of a brain surgeon, he can't expect any help from me!

[Beachlover]

As a farang knowing how little the wages are in the service businesses here I think it is in bad form not to tip unless of course their was a problem with the service or a service charge is included in the bill.
Yeah but in the bigger picture, wages as a waiter are as bad as the unskilled worker wages in the factory where your clothes, TV and maybe car/scooter came from. Do you go out of your way to supplement their income too?


Yup, if some guy chooses to be a busboy instead of a brain surgeon, he can't expect any help from me!
That's the spirit LOL.

Look, I'm fine with tipping when there's a special reason for it. I just don't think it's necessary at places like restaurants where service has been as normal.

This isn't America. The service charge is built into the cost of whatever you're buying or added on top of the bill as a "service charge". A mandatory 10% tip isn't expected or necessary. Same as in Australia... and probably similar to what's done in Europe.

In Asia... you generally give a deliberate tip when someone's done something extra for you or to get something done better/faster.

[Bob]

Yeah but in the bigger picture, wages as a waiter are as bad as the unskilled worker wages in the factory where your clothes, TV and maybe car/scooter came from. Do you go out of your way to supplement their income too?....

This isn't America.

You may be surprised but the very reason that Americans have become accustomed to tip waiters in restaurants is that their wages are lower. We have minimum wage standards set by the various states (and, to some degree, by the federal government) but the minimum wage (which is all restaurants usually pay their hired help - at least the waiters and busboys) is often 50-75% lower for restaurant workers (or at least wait staff). In my home state of Michigan, the legal general minimum wage is $7.40 (US) per hour whereas, according to the regulations, the minimum pay for "tipped employees" is $2.65 cents per hour so long as the tips received in combination with that $2.65 meets or exceeds the $7.40 per hour level (and the state requires written tip statements weekly to try to make sure the waiters aren't being short changed). That's the way it's always been and why Americans have customarily tipped restaurant wait staff (and, by custom, it's normally 15-20% of the entire bill). If somebody in the US doesn't provide a reasonable tip to such a worker, it's generally felt they are cheap bastards. Those customs learned at home in the states are difficult to simply discard when going to an asian country (i.e., if I don't leave some tip, I actually do feel like a cheap bastard; however, I've learned to leave less of a tip in Asia than I would otherwise do in the US).

[mahjongguy]

The bottom line is that the masseur gets a maximum of US$3.50 for a 1 hour massage from the shop fee. Could be as little as US$2.40.

If you think that your additional direct payment should be some similar amount, then I think you're exploiting the unfortunate, most especially if you feel that for the cost of a Starbucks latte you're entitled to molest them.

And if you think that people who "tip" a masseur 500 baht or more are ruining it for the rest of you, I'd say you've got it backwards. I live here and I hate the idea that I might be resented because I look similar to the farang kee nok that infest the place.

[Narakmak]

I was only looking for some kind of consensus among user of the kind of place I mentioned for what is a fair tip. I didn't get into the issue of "spoiling" things for others. I think people should tip what they want even if that means technically overtipping the norm if that is what they want to do. However, I also believe there is a level that constitutes a reasonable tip, regardless of the cost of Starbuck lattes. Not sure there is a consensus, but personally I do not believe you need to tip 500 baht at such places to continue to receive a warm welcome, but I guess I should test this theory out myself and report back.

Also, is there really any need to diss people who tip differently than you do? Isn't this a matter between the provider and the customer? In other words, who are you to judge? Another way to look at this, do you think these workers would prefer no business at all from lower level tippers, and wait around to cherry pick the more generous ones? I don't think so for most workers unless it is a very busy time in high season. 300 baht beats zero baht.

[Beachlover]

You may be surprised but the very reason that Americans have become accustomed to tip waiters in restaurants is that their wages are lower. We have minimum wage standards set by the various states (and, to some degree, by the federal government) but the minimum wage (which is all restaurants usually pay their hired help - at least the waiters and busboys) is often 50-75% lower for restaurant workers (or at least wait staff). In my home state of Michigan, the legal general minimum wage is $7.40 (US) per hour whereas, according to the regulations, the minimum pay for "tipped employees" is $2.65 cents per hour so long as the tips received in combination with that $2.65 meets or exceeds the $7.40 per hour level (and the state requires written tip statements weekly to try to make sure the waiters aren't being short changed). That's the way it's always been and why Americans have customarily tipped restaurant wait staff (and, by custom, it's normally 15-20% of the entire bill). If somebody in the US doesn't provide a reasonable tip to such a worker, it's generally felt they are cheap bastards. Those customs learned at home in the states are difficult to simply discard when going to an asian country (i.e., if I don't leave some tip, I actually do feel like a cheap bastard; however, I've learned to leave less of a tip in Asia than I would otherwise do in the US).
Yes, I know how wages for hospitality/service workers in America set lower than normal to account for tips so most of their wages actually come from tips.

That's why in America you have a "default tip" amount like 15-20% regardless of how the service is right? Even if it's shit you still tip like 5-10%. If it's outstanding then you tip greater than the default 15-20% amount.

Well, it's different in Asia. There is no "default tip". The "default tip" is zero for normal service. If it's outstanding then you tip 10% or 20% or whatever you feel is right.

No one has any issues with Americans paying more than everyone else if they don't want to adapt their tipping habits... Just don't call people "cheap" or in "bad form" if they're following Asian norms instead of following what is normal for the USA!


The bottom line is that the masseur gets a maximum of US$3.50 for a 1 hour massage from the shop fee. Could be as little as US$2.40.

If you think that your additional direct payment should be some similar amount, then I think you're exploiting the unfortunate, most especially if you feel that for the cost of a Starbucks latte you're entitled to molest them.

And if you think that people who "tip" a masseur 500 baht or more are ruining it for the rest of you, I'd say you've got it backwards. I live here and I hate the idea that I might be resented because I look similar to the farang kee nok that infest the place.

A 50-100 baht tip for a 300-baht massage is fine if we're referring to professional non-sexual massage here. You can't justify calling anyone cheap for tipping that. That's what I pay normally (more if it's a higher class a 500-700 baht place). If I find someone especially good, I tip them more, say 100-200 baht and get terrific service when I go back to them on subsequent days.

As for the starbucks reference... This is Thailand and you're being served by a Thai. If they do 2 massages a day and earn 200 baht + 100 baht (tips) from this they make 9,000 baht/month. 6,000 baht/month is the normal wage for low-skilled workers in Thailand so they're not doing too bad at all.

[bao-bao]

Also, is there really any need to diss people who tip differently than you do? Isn't this a matter between the provider and the customer? In other words, who are you to judge?
Naramak, it's all part of the research. If you're truly interested in an answer anywhere close to an educated guess you have to consider the source. Look for your answer in a few different places (i.e. forums and sites) and then weigh the information yourself. There are a few members on any forum who consistently post useful and more or less dependable information; do your searches including their user names as part of the criteria and you'll stand a better chance of a reasonable answer to your question (although as individuals they can have their quirks and biases, too).

PS - And yes, there are far too many here who feel the need to lift their legs and spray threads in their quest to feel equal - by anonymously "dissing" others. Some here feel it makes the board "lively", but I think it's just abusive. It's why I pulled back a ways from SGT and started sharing on my own.

[francois]

Tipping is really an American practice. It's not expected in Asia. You pay the rate that you see. You'll rarely see an Asian tipping in a restaurant or bar.
:rolling:

I have an Australian friend so am aware of the difference in tipping practices. I think when in Australia do as the Australians, when in Europe do as the European and when in the US do as the Americans, but when in Thailand don't do as the Thais. Zero tip is miserly and 20% is extravagant however 10 % does go a long way in helping supplement the meager salaries of Thai service persons. Basically I am speaking of service in restaurants.

For non-sex massage that is a different matter. I would think a tip significantly less then the house fee would be too little. Maybe next time I will ask the masseur and get "up to you".

[mahjongguy]

I realize that I have made strong statements, but say in defense that none of them were directed at any particular forum member.

I also admit that my own life history has made me pretty emotional about selfishness, especially as regards massage workers. I have gotten to know quite a few of them, gotten involved in their lives, seen for myself their struggle to support themselves and their families while enduring the indignities of this profession.

I know that my views are not the norm but that makes me all the less shy about trying to get the message across to others.

[Beachlover]

That's fair enough. It's obviously up to you what you want to tip.

Also, I was referring to (mostly) non-sexual massages... totally different if there's playing around at the end.

[mahjongguy]

Also, I was referring to (mostly) non-sexual massages... totally different if there's playing around at the end.

Moi aussi.