Russian Pedo in Pattaya?

[rincondog]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_p ... 532613.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_pacific/10532613.stm)

Police in the Thai resort of Pattaya have questioned Russian musician Mikhail Pletnev over allegations of sex with an under-age boy.

This story was posted on the BBC website at 22.34pm.

The OP had it on this board within 45 minutes.

Just an observation - make of it what you will.

:dontknow:

[Beachlover]

I don't think that indicates anything... 45 minutes is nothing.

Generally, the times are updated throughout the day with regard to BBC news items, if the item is only slightly updated, they put a new time on that item. 22:34 hours is not necessarily the first time that news article was posted.

[kittyboy]

Maybe it is a case of the famed Russian Penist being caught playing off key... or giving unwanted penist lessons.

Bad word play but I like it.

Generally, the times are updated throughout the day with regard to BBC news items, if the item is only slightly updated, they put a new time on that item. 22:34 hours is not necessarily the first time that news article was posted.


So, my learned friend, it is equally possible that 22.34 WAS the first time this article appeared on the BBC Website - is that not the truth of the matter?

:bounce: :bounce:

I don't think that indicates anything... 45 minutes is nothing.

Congratulations - you have spectacularly missed the point.

Think of all the news stories breaking every minute from every corner of the Earth, how dedicated might a person have to be to firstly find this particular story and have it posted on here within 45 minutes of it being published?

I guess if you sit 24/7 with the word "pedo" typed in the Google search box and just keep refreshing the results, that would do it.

:bounce:

[Beachlover]

That's one worrying thing... if the wrong people don't like you, they can just play dirty and frame you for something filthy like this. Which means years in a filthy jail.

Perhaps you need other things in your life other than this forum! Scottish-guy..........You can always go back to looking at your "infestments".

The use of the word "Infestments" in place of "Investments" was an intended malapropism - but you seriously believe it was an error? Did the photgraph of Hylda Baker (which Jinks later removed for some bizarre reason) not give you a little clue?

As I've pointed out before, you always seem able to respond to whatever I post - so the only conclusion that can therefore be drawn is that YOU are here just as frequently as I am.

Do us a favour - go play with the traffic on Surawong Road - I'd love to see you travelling through the air in one direction with your wig flying the opposite way.

:occasion9:

That's one worrying thing... if the wrong people don't like you, they can just play dirty and frame you for something filthy like this. Which means years in a filthy jail.


Oh they don't even have to go to that degree of effort now ....

You can just whisper names of people you don't like to our self-appointed "hero" from the British press.

Haven't you heard?


:occasion9:

[Marsilius]

This morning's edition of The Times (London) reports that Mr Pletnev has been given permission to leave Thailand. He has apparently agreed to return if necessary in the future to help with investigations.

There appears to be one law for friends of Vladimir Putin - which Mr Pletnev is - and another one for other people.

Perhaps the Thai police had no idea just how eminent he was until they had arrested him - and the presence of TV cameras at the scene meant that there was, at that point in time at least, no option to backtrack or choose to turn a blind eye...

[Beachlover]

Oh they don't even have to go to that degree of effort now ....

You can just whisper names of people you don't like to our self-appointed "hero" from the British press.

Haven't you heard?

:occasion9:

I think the deal with that is that he would pass them onto authorities to conduct an investigation before any charges are laid... It's not a simple, "anyone pointed out is history" thing.

Here's the other thing... in that Dan Rivers, CNN Report, there was footage of police breaking into people's rooms to find "half naked" male prostitutes in there with the suggestion (from the underlying message accompanying the footage) they were not of legal age.

But the report had no facts on whether the boys in the footage were actually under 18 or if it was just another scene repeated everyday across Pattaya with guys taking home gogo boys etc. of legal age. Regardless, it looks bad. 50 year old guy with a 20 year old boy with cops charging in looks bad on TV... regardless of what the facts are... people just assume.

Generally, the times are updated throughout the day with regard to BBC news items, if the item is only slightly updated, they put a new time on that item. 22:34 hours is not necessarily the first time that news article was posted.


So, my learned friend, it is equally possible that 22.34 WAS the first time this article appeared on the BBC Website - is that not the truth of the matter?

:bounce: :bounce:

Well, equally possible yes, but as we will never know (unless you do further investigation of course). If you look at the actual article, it says "last updated ....", which to me means what it says.
:bis: :bis:

....

I think the deal with that is that he would pass them onto authorities to conduct an investigation before any charges are laid... It's not a simple, "anyone pointed out is history" thing.....

Why would anybody need to go through a gutter journalist to get to the "authorities"?

I really wish the second part of your sentence was true ..... unfortunately the great majority of the public follow the "no smoke without fire" train of thought. Any professional person would quickly find that mere allegations of that nature would be quite sufficient to end their business or career. Anybody living in a UK Council estate would probably be lucky to get out alive.

:bounce:

Unfortunately the great majority of the public follow the "no smoke without fire" train of thought. Any professional person would quickly find that mere allegations of that nature would be quite sufficient to end their business or career. Anybody living in a UK Council estate would probably be lucky to get out alive. :bounce:

There have been many cases over the last decade or so of Teachers careers in the U.K. being totally ruined because of allegations being made against them from pupils that were later proved to have been made up. Some still, even though proved innocent were unable to, or found it impossible to return to their profession. As scottish-guy rightly points out just the mere allegation of any kind of child abuse is enough to ruin a career.
Another case that comes to mind is the home that was attacked by a mob who thought/had been told that the person living there was a pedophile when in fact he was a pediatrician.

[Marsilius]

Another case that comes to mind is the home that was attacked by a mob who thought/had been told that the person living there was a pedophile when in fact he was a pediatrician.

It was a she, actually - and the idea of a mob is an urban myth: there was paint daubing. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/901723.stm

For an interesting summary of how the true story got distorted over time, see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4719364.stm

It was a she, actually - and the idea of a mob is an urban myth: there was paint daubing. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/901723.stm
For an interesting summary of how the true story got distorted over time, see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4719364.stm

Whatever it was still scary for the person targeted.

[Marsilius]

It certainly was.

Good to know that all innocent people have to worry about is a bit of "paint daubing"....


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/8405031.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/8405031.stm

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/3866259.Man_killed_himself_after_paedophile_allega tion/

http://www.ukwirednews.com/news.php/38375-Father-speaks-out-over-false-paedophile-Facebook-post

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/24/2828724.htm

By the way, I didn't have to go past Page 1 of Google.



:bounce:

[Marsilius]

No-one denies that horrible things happen to innocent people.

I was, as is perfectly clear, merely trying to nail the rampaging urban myth that relates specifically to the "confusion of a paedophile with a paediatrician" episode.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_pacific/10532613.stm

Police in the Thai resort of Pattaya have questioned Russian musician Mikhail Pletnev over allegations of sex with an under-age boy.

any chance of the presumption of innocence ? :tard:

[Marsilius]

Two points of interest in this case:

(1) Mr Pletnev has now flown home to Moscow (though promising that he will come back for any legal proceedings). I cannot recall earlier instances where men arrested on similar charges have been allowed to leave Thailand so quickly and easily.

(2) The online edition (I have no access to the paper one) of that well known journal of record the Pattaya Mail contains not a single mention of this case, whereas most others of a similar nature receive splash treatment. It's not, after all, as though there wasn't the space, given that such a gem of a hot, topical story as "Dharma in Time" debuts on local cable channels got coverage! It does make one begin to wonder whether someone's given orders that this particular case - where the arrested man subsequently proved to have some very powerful friends indeed - is to be quietly forgotten...

Please note that I am not making any presumption of guilt on Mr Pletnev's part. Like anyone else he is entitled to be considered innocent unless he is found guilty in an eventual trial. My sole point is that he does, though, appear to be being treated in a significantly different manner than that applied to the many others who find themselves, from time to time, in his unfortunate position.

Please note that I am not making any presumption of guilt on Mr Pletnev's part. Like anyone else he is entitled to be considered innocent unless he is found guilty in an eventual trial. My sole point is that he does, though, appear to be being treated in a significantly different manner than that applied to the many others who find themselves, from time to time, in his unfortunate position.

Nothing new there Marsilius, money and power always talks in Thailand. Also the press (I wouldn't even put The Pattaya Mail in that category!) does like to jump in feet first, especially with child abuse cases, and with this particular one there might indeed have been no evidence to suggest that a crime had actually been commited.

[Brad the Impala]

Sounds to me that one party had had enough of the kid glove treatment that this guy was receiving. Free to travel, and go to his mum's birthday party etc, as long as he popped back to Thailand every twelve days!

Thailand revokes Russian conductor Pletnev's visa
(AFP) тАУ 10 hours ago
BANGKOK тАФ Thailand has cancelled the visa of Russian conductor Mikhail Pletnev, meaning he faces deportation even if child rape charges against him are dropped, an immigration official said on Wednesday.
"The Thai immigration bureau has blacklisted him on the grounds that his behaviour is detrimental to Thailand," said Major General Pansak Kasamsan, deputy commissioner at the bureau.
"His Thai visa was automatically revoked after his name was blacklisted," he said. "He would eventually be deported whether it goes to trial or the charges are dropped."
Pletnev, artistic director of the Russian National Orchestra, was charged in early July with the rape of a 14-year-old boy in Pattaya, where he has a house.
He denies the charge, which carries a sentence of up to 20 years in jail, and was released on bail.
The award-winning maestro was allowed by a Thai court to travel overseas but is required to report back every 12 days. He returned to Thailand over the weekend after attending a music festival in Macedonia.
Pletvev told Russian media Wednesday that he had been given permission by the court to leave the country again. It was unclear whether the cancellation of his visa would affect his travel plans.
"My mother's birthday is in a few days and I cannot and don't want to miss it. The lawyer has just told me that permission had been obtained," Pletnev told RIA Novosti.
Pletnev, 53, founded the Russian National Orchestra in 1990 just before the break-up of the Soviet Union and his arrest has sent shock waves through Russia's musical world.
He is a member of President Dmitry Medvedev's advisory council on culture and art, and in 2005 won a Grammy award for best chamber music performance.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h6cj3iFfxTQ7DBsLGrdX1E74POAQ

Sounds to me that one party had had enough of the kid glove treatment that this guy was receiving. Free to travel, and go to his mum's birthday party etc, as long as he popped back to Thailand every twelve days!

Bearing in mind that Mr Pletnev is currently an innocent man until proved otherwise, how would you prefer he was treated?

Clapped in irons and locked up until he can prove his innocence perhaps?

Maybe a spot of torture?

Would that give you a big throbber?

[Marsilius]

Bearing in mind that Mr Pletnev is currently an innocent man until proved otherwise, how would you prefer he was treated?

Exactly the same as everyone else who had been arrested and charged for that offence.

In Thailand, as I understand it and as we regularly see reported, that would mean remanded in custody with passport confiscated.

The basic point is that the law and its procedures ought to be applied equally to everyone regardless of background or influential friends.

Christ on a bike - we agree!!!!!


:rolling: :rolling:

Bearing in mind that Mr Pletnev is currently an innocent man until proved otherwise, how would you prefer he was treated?

Exactly the same as everyone else who had been arrested and charged for that offence...


So you know for an indisputable fact that everybody else has been treated the way you describe? Or is that just another thowaway line?

Another basic point is that Mr Pletnev(if I recall correctly) was not caught in flagrante delicto with the Pattaya News cameras filming it all - quite unlike what seems to be the vast majority of these cases.

As I understand it he was arrested sitting at a bar after an allegation of "sexual assault" was made - are you seriously saying that someone should be incarcerated on the basis of a sexual offence complaint where there is no corroberating evidence at the time ?

:bounce:

[Brad the Impala]

.

As I understand it he was arrested sitting at a bar after an allegation of "sexual assault" was made - are you seriously saying that someone should be incarcerated on the basis of a sexual offence complaint where there is no corroberating evidence at the time ?


The original BBC report on this thread refers to "several Thai citizens arrested earlier for paedophilia and the manufacture of child pornography had given evidence against him". He has apparently been charged with the rape of a 14 year old boy. In those circumstances, in Thailand and in most countries, the accused would normally be required to remain in the country, at least, pending investigation.

Are you seriously arguing that he should be free to come and go out of the country as he pleases? Or that this would be the normal procedure?

[Marsilius]

...are you seriously saying that someone should be incarcerated on the basis of a sexual offence complaint where there is no corroberating [sic.] evidence at the time?

Given the serious nature of the charge, yes.

You've omitted the intervening stage between "complaint" and arresting/charging - i.e. the police will have investigated and spoken to others. As Brad points out, this is what appears to have happened. If the police have turned up evidence going beyond the simple original complaint that justifies charging him, then yes, he should be detained in custody (or, in the case of less serious alleged offences than this, placed on bail in the country with passport confiscated).

..the police will have investigated and spoken to others....evidence going beyond the simple original complaint that justifies charging him......

You seem to be making quite a few assumptions based on nothing at all - would you not agree?

:dontknow:

Scottish Guy,you are better off sticking with your usual childish oneliners.Do not get into a discussion that you clearly know nothing about.Marsilius and Brad have described what is standard police procedure in most countries (even Thailand), where arrest and charges of a serious crime is involved.

[Marsilius]

...are you seriously saying that someone should be incarcerated on the basis of a sexual offence complaint where there is no corroberating [sic.] evidence at the time?

As you will see above, I replied to your question which specifically asked whether someone theoretically should be incarcerated etc.

I am not making any assumptions at all about what may or may not actually happen in practice (although, as we saw Brad point out, the proper sequence of procedures does seem to have occurred in this case).

Oh well since Brad and Marsilius assure us that a multiplicity of trustworthy people have given the police a veritable mountain of prima-facie evidence against this Russian guy and that all the proper police procedures were followed then that must be right, I mean B&M would know 100%, wouldn't they - not like they are just reading news reports or anything.

And since the guy with the spring up his arse says that I should just shut up because I don't know what I'm talking about (unlike him obviously) then I'm really likely to do that.

On the other hand, taking into account the amount of totally inaccurate information (a.k.a shite) routinely posted on this board, I prefer to retain a healthy cynicism until the FACTS are known.

Call me old-fashioned.

:rolling:

[Brad the Impala]

Anyone who wasn't blinkered in their defence of paedophiles would be able to acknowledge that, on the basis of news report comparisons, this guy was receiving exceptionally favourable treatment by the justice system. Ask George.

I made the point that the subsequent actions of the Immigration Department, in withdrawing his visa, indicated that somewhere this was being acknowledged. All fairly uncontentious for most people I would have thought.

Anyone who wasn't blinkered in their defence of paedophiles ....

So anybody who sees things differently to you is therefore " blinkered in their defence of paedophiles".

Well it's good to have further confirmation (as if any were needed) of how the attack dogs in here operate - and in packs too!

Every week one hears of alleged murderers who get bail and who do not have their passports seized - I have never seen you giving us the benefit of your opinion on those cases - do you view murder as a more or less serious allegation that those facing Mr Pletnev?

:bounce:

...blah blah blah blah.......

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/zebedee358x500.jpg

[quote="Brad the Impala":1smrpufq]Anyone who wasn't blinkered in their defence of paedophiles ....

Well it's good to have further confirmation (as if any were needed) of how the attack dogs in here operate - and in packs too

:bounce:[/quote:1smrpufq]


For the record, I am not of the opinion that you defend paedophiles, I am in agreement with M & B on the usual police procedures adopted where allegations and charges of serious crimes are concerned.I am not about to comment on the innocence or otherwise of an individual in a case that is sub judice .This is about the police procedures adopted in the case referred to in the title of this thread.


Oh well since Brad and Marsilius assure us that a multiplicity of trustworthy people have given the police a veritable mountain of prima-facie evidence against this Russian guy and that all the proper police procedures were followed then that must be right, I mean B&M would know 100%, wouldn't they - not like they are just reading news reports or anything.

And since the guy with the spring up his arse says that I should just shut up because I don't know what I'm talking about (unlike him obviously) then I'm really likely to do that.

On the other hand, taking into account the amount of totally inaccurate information (a.k.a shite) routinely posted on this board, I prefer to retain a healthy cynicism until the FACTS are known.

Call me old-fashioned.

:rolling:

Your little rant above just demonstrates the size of your ego, you cannot accept that you are wrong, so cry "pack dogs" and insults.

And since the guy with the spring up his arse says that I should just shut up because I don't know what I'm talking about (unlike him obviously) then I'm really likely to do that.
Call me old-fashioned.

:rolling:

Guess what SG i don't have a spring up my ass...Zebedee is just a handle....honestly... it's not my real name....in fact I don't think Zebedee even has an arse.. but I couldn't be arsed about that.
You ,on the otherhand are a true ,genuine, Scittish Got..ehhh...Scattish Get.....ahh you know!! :sign5:


[attachment=0:2gw5gl30]SG on his soap box lecturing SGT posters..bmp[/attachment:2gw5gl30]

I don't seem to know the difference between edit and quote...

Relax Homesoon,it could be alot worse,imagine if you were like Scottish Guy...he doesn't know his ass from his elbow !!!

Do you see Scots Git? How easy it is to resort to banal oneliners.

Oh but you've gone past resorting to banal oneliners - you've graduated to racism now. Congratulations.

Would you dare call me a jewish git or a black git?


:occasion9:

Oh but you've gone past resorting to banal oneliners - you've graduated to racism now. Congratulations.

Would you dare call me a jewish git or a black git?


:occasion9:

Ohhh..you can dish it out...but you can't take it!
In answer to your question..neither....just a fcuk wit!

[quote="scottish-guy":3dno4vc9]Oh but you've gone past resorting to banal oneliners - you've graduated to racism now. Congratulations.

Would you dare call me a jewish git or a black git?


:occasion9:

Sure...if you happened to be either Jewish or black (are you?).[/quote:3dno4vc9]

:sign5: :sign5:
Ha ha Touche! oops.
oh god!! Please stop Scittish Got. you've embarrassed yourself enough for one..day..at least!!

Ok, ok, seriously. On a different thread I actually (silently applauded )your defence of the right of "presumption of innocence" for an accused person.And indeed, your defence of a certain individual that was recently found "not guilty" having served over a year in prison for something he was not guilty of.This you done against the relentless attacks (and now apparently unfair) postings of some ppl here.
But your refusal to accept the fact that you were wrong,and then pass snide remarks on M& B..and of course my good self..he he ...on this thread...welllll it just makes you ...emmm..a Scittish Got!!! :sign5:

[quote="scottish-guy":ycrjl851]Oh but you've gone past resorting to banal oneliners - you've graduated to racism now. Congratulations.

Would you dare call me a jewish git or a black git?


:occasion9:

Sure...if you happened to be either Jewish or black (are you?).[/quote:ycrjl851]

Yes actually - but not both.

:bounce:

[attachment=0:b6sy0cpm]SG on his soap box lecturing SGT posters..bmp[/attachment:b6sy0cpm]

"Lisen ye useless bunch o' crap,ye nae ken woth yer telkin' aboot! Yer a bunch o' big girrrls bluses! Have a fiiid o' fried mars bars ..dinn ye'll be rite!!"

Hilarious.

I have made a Hospital appointment for tomorrow in case my sides split with laughter.

:sharm:

Hilarious.

I have made a Hospital appointment for tomorrow in case my sides split with laughter.

:sharm:

Gee,SG have you reverted to your teenage years,or is this dementia scittish???

More hilarious wit!

How does he keep up this high standard when there are so few Xmas crackers left in July?

:dontknow:

More hilarious wit!

How does he keep up this high standard when there are so few Xmas crackers left in July?

:dontknow:

Scottish Guy,I have edited out my previous comments on this post as they were way over the top,and you are undeserving of the silly insults.Up to this I had been enjoying our little stoush!

[.... I will not lower myself...

It's not possible for you to lower yourself

:occasion9:

[.... I will not lower myself...

It's not possible for you to lower yourself

:occasion9:

Of course it is! Look at you!!! :sign5:

You'd have to look up from the gutter to see me

:idea:

Oh for heavens sake!! Scitts Got! you are now becoming boring! Twat. :occasion9: :occasion9:

:sharm: