Farangs are idiots...

[cdnmatt]

Want to know one of the (many) hard parts of being in a relationship with a Thai? Listening to everyone else's bullshit, and prejudices. This goes both ways. Me listening to all the farangs in town I know, then Kim listening to all his friends. I've come to realize you have to learn how to leave that stuff at the door, when it comes to the relationship. Although, I don't think Kim's friends are anywhere near as critical towards farangs, as the farangs I know are towards Thais.

Anyway, on to the story...

In a previous post, I jumped the gun a bit by saying we were already in a house. I knew we were getting it though, hence why I posted it. We actually just moved in five days ago though, and I gotta say, it's great! We're always mot-dtua (broke) though, and moving in cost us a good 60,000 baht, so we're pretty sparse on furniture. We'll keep buying and building up as the weeks go by. We managed to buy a bed and sofa, but that was it.

The day after getting the house, Kim and myself headed off to mama's village, to steal a TV and a puppy. :-) Of course though, Kim's mama was pretty excited and curious about the house ordeal, so had to come and see it. The whole group came back in a friend's pickup truck, we sat around, had some food & beer, etc. Mama really likes the house too, and when Kim and myself go on vacations, she wants to sleep here now. :-)

She realized we simply didn't have any money at the moment though, so decided to do us a favor, and buy me a computer desk. At first I was told mama was going to drop if off the next day, but it didn't come, so no worries. I'd prefer not to take anything from her anyway, but it's rude to say no. The story kept changing for a few days though, most probably because Kim doesn't know what he's talking about. But after continuously listening to everyone tell me just how horrible Thais are, I started getting a bit frustrated.

The last version of the story I heard from Kim was a couple nights ago, which was mama found us both, a fridge and a computer desk for 10,000 baht, but we were paying, and had to pickup everything in the village. Again, after listening to everyone, I didn't like this, because I just assumed we were going to end up with a 5000 baht fridge, 2000 baht computer desk, and Kim's mama would have 3000 baht for herself. I would prefer just to buy everything ourselves in town. Thankfully, I kept my mouth shut, and didn't vent any frustration towards Kim, or question him about it.

Sure enough, this morning, I hear our puppy barking like mad. I wander downstairs half asleep, only to see Kim's mama peeking through the window. Mama, papa, and a friend who owns a pickup truck were in the driveway with a new computer desk. They even brought their own food, sticky rice, and ice cold water. :-)

The thing that agitates me is, when I tell farangs this, I always get some stupid remark like, "oh, but she only did that because now you owe her a favor", or some shit. I mean, come on... talk about going to lengths to validate your own prejudices that all Thais are lieing, deceitful, lazy bastards. Why is it so difficult for some farangs to believe this is simply a loving mother, who is grateful her son is with a loving farang who is providing him with a good life, and wants to do the motherly thing and take care / help out?

Most farangs simply can't comprehend this though. They're just not willing to believe it. If you think I'm wrong, just watch the replies to this thread. So now, I'm not going to bother listening to anything farangs tell me anymore. I've listened for the past year, keeping an open mind, and trying to learn. Pretty much everything they've said has turned out false though, so I'm not going to bother listening anymore. Because if I do, I start believing them, which causes way too much tension and second-guessing.

[netrix]

dude, you are so gay. everything is so dramatic haha. congrats on the new place and stuff.

[CoffeeBreak]

Nice and interesting story,keep us updated how matters progress, and if some farangs have certain views of the motives of some Thais they are entitled to their opinions, but you do your own thing and enjoy your life.

[Dodger]

cdmatt,

Unfortunately, and I say this with a bit of apprehension, most adult Thais who live in poverty conditions do view us (farang) as a means of getting money. That's just the way it works. Having said that, there is the possibility that controls can be placed on these interactions, but only if the farang is aware of the situation and draws some very solid lines in the relationship from the beginning. And when I say "relationship," I'm referring to the relationship you immediately embark on with the boys family when you couple with a Thai boy.

Unless an orphan, the boy is tied to, and comnitted to, his family above all, and there is nothing you could (or should) do to try to change this. And please don't develop the notion that there is a dividing line between good and bad parents based on the premise that the good ones only want to give with no motivations to receive - because they all have motivations to receive - and receive from you. You are the sponsor in the relationship regardless if you like that role or not - this is your role within the dynamics of the family you have just joined. In short, if you couple with the boy - you have just joined his family.

My advice, not that you want it, is to make your financial donations to the family conservative and within your budget, and don't, at any time, waiver. Regardless of every water buffalo in their village dies at the same time, do not donate a single satang unless it was promised before hand within the structure of your financial agreemnet.

If you don't acknowledge what I'm saying to you, or try to dodge this responsibility - your relationship with your BF will come to an end.

Enjoy his family as much as you enjoy him...become friends with them all...spend time with them...gain their trust...see inside them if you can...give what you can to help to make their lives a bit easier...but don't gibe away the farm. They'll respect you for this and welcome you into the family with open arms, but just remember, you are the sponsor.

[Alaan]

Well cdmatt, its like everybody you meet in life anywhere in the world, some are genuine, some full of bullshit, some a waste of time, and SOME are idiots.

Many talk negatively about Thais because that has been their experience with Thais. It often pays to listen to others, it is up to you to take out of what you hear as genuine or bullshit, but often you can learn things from farangs who can give the benefit of their 'hindsight' without you possibly having to go though the same pain or pay the high price. But of course every relationship is different and there is no precise blueprint.

And whether you want to beleive it or not there are a VAST amount of farangs out there who have been seriously 'done over' by Thais. There are of course many farangs with a happy and non-threatening Thai environment, but i fear the ratio of being 'taken to the cleaners' to successful relationships would be scary.

I personally dont know many farangs since first visiting Thailand 11 years ago, so i have made virtually all assessments of the Thais I have come into contact with on my own. Over the last couple of years I have become friendly with a couple of farangs who live in Thailand full time, and i see ocassionally when i visit, one dived straight into a full time relationship and has a negative experience in terms of money and disappointent, but he isn't bitter and doesn't talk particularly negative about the failed relationship, only gives the facts, which in themselves paints the genuine negative picture of the Thai he was with.

The other farang i know settled down with a boy for a number of years and has integrated with 'family' life in Issan, and he couldn't be happier with his lot, but he is under no illusions about genuine and particularly bullshit senarios. He knows what is expected of the 'rich' farang and he is realistic enough and has experience to know that if he were a Thai with exactly the same money potential etc, the expectations from the family and 'extended members' would be EXACTLY the same. Thais have absolutely no predudice about the source of the money, it is probably THE biggest source of disagreement within Thai families farang or not.

Virtually all the arguements and problems with Thai families even with NO farang in tow are about money. If you think Uk and western countries have a 'keep up with the joneses' attitude, from what i can see when visiting my guys (fairly poor) village it is more-so in Thailand. He admits to me that everyone in his village spend most of their time gossiping about others, not so much in a nasty or judgemental way, but in a 'matter of fact way'.

Just purely from seeing and taking in things around me when in Thailand regarding say gifts of an expensive (to Thais) nature, it would in my opinion be very unusual for any mother of a family member from a relatively poor background to give a farang a gift. I/we have received gifts from a few Thais in my guys Issan village, but they are all something which has been made especially for me/us or something which is made in the village anyway is of little or no value but offered anyway such as , a bolster for leaning on, a cover for the bed, a scarf or shawl, and a mat for sitting while eating, all these 'gifts' have come with some amount of thought behind them and not for any expected return.

The normal thing would be for the son or the daughters husband but most definitely a farang to be doing the giving, definitely not the other way around, nothing to do with loving your son etc..that i'm afraid would come under the 'romantic notion' file, it is in my own nature to give 'benfit of the doubt' first with all people i meet be they at home, farang or Thai. But I have found many Thais very calculating and (sneaky) but in an obvious (to me) way. My guy is still so niave to me. He receieves a call out of the blue from a 'friend' or some distant family members, and he has this innocent 'how nice of them to call' attitude. I am cynical and I say, he/she will call again soon but the next call will be a 'sob story' or some critical need for a 'loan' ..he gets annoyed with me when i make that suggestion, and sure enough the call comes just as i predicted, my guy always seems so shocked that they would call only for that..it astounds me.

And they are so good at 'laying the bait' such as described by cdmatt and also too hastily written off by him, where a gift or a service is done for you which you probably dont need or require, yes it becomes a favour to be returned, sometimes its just as ordinary as 'keeping in your good books' for future compliance with whiskey, beer and food requirements.

I dont know, but i probably dont help myself whilst giving benefit of doubt i still am cynical and my suspicions easily aroused, and there have been situations in which I have been wrong or too quick to jump to a conclusion, but as i say this cynicism comes from how i see Thai integrating within their own circles and eachother with no farangs in the mix, and they are just as sneaky, calculated, money aware as well as, kind, giving, considerate and generous with their own, not only farangs.

As the previous poster said, like it or not, you become the source for family money when needed just because of who you are as a farang. In my opinion having a Thai relationship is a bit like the family and possibly your potential partners attitude in the uk during the Victorian era, couplings were based on a mix of attraction, love and 'prospects' and both parties knew and accepted the basis for the relationship.

CdMatt, most comments from farangs, idiots or well meaning have very little in my opinion to do with 'validating prejudices' many times farangs are correct, but of course there are many times when the farang is just an idiot. I'm afraid it is probably far too soon in your own relationsip to know who will be right in terms of bullshitting or not, some calculating people can be prepared to wait a long time to get what they eventually want.

Just my two satangs worth of comment.

[X] From Man Ray for cdnmatt in Isaan:

"It has never been my object to record my dreams, just the determination to realize them."
"The streets are full of admirable craftsmen, but so few practical dreamers."

American artist, painter, object maker, sculptor, filmmaker, and photographer. An iron is transformed into a new and potentially threatening object, by the addition of a row of nails. The nails and the evocation of desire, violence, and hot metal, suggest a paradox with the work's title, 'Cadeau' the French word for 'Gift'. The idea is not only to make it useless, but also to counter its original purpose by an ambivalence of the senses. With his pioneering, experimental achievements and technical innovations, Man Ray became one of the only American artists who was central to both the Dada and Surrealist movements. Great artists of the day such as James Joyce, Gertrude Stein, Jean Cocteau and numerous others posed for his camera. http://www.doctorhugo.org/synaesthesia/art/index.html

http://www.doctorhugo.org/synaesthesia/art/gift.jpg
Man Ray (1890-1976), Gift 1921

The major characteristic of the experience of the gift is, without doubt, its ambiguity. On the one hand, it is experienced (or intended) as a refusal of self-interest and egoistic calculation, and an exaltation of generosity тАУ a gratuitous, unrequited gift. On the other hand, it never entirely excludes awareness of the logic of exchange or even confession of the repressed impulses or, intermittently, the denunciation of another, denied, truth of generous exchange -- its constraining and costly character ("a gift is a misfortune," the Kabyles say). This leads to the question of the dual truth of the gift and the social conditions that make possible what can be described (somewhat inadequately) as an individual and collective self-deception, the very one which Marcel Mauss refers to in one of the most profound sentences that an anthropologist has ever written: "La soci├йt├й se paie toujours elle-m├кme de la fausse monnaie de son r├кve = Society always pays itself in the counterfeit coin of its dream." (Pierre Bourdieu)

[X] A face-saving hidden credit to get you working again, because these gifts must be reciprocated.

[X] Lovers are doomed to behave like idiots; please follow Dodger's and Alaan's advice.

[Beachlover]

cdnmatt: You remain your own worst enemy. Easy solution to some of your frustration here! Just stop writing chapter after chapter of your Romance novel or at least stop publishing them.

Why?... I love reading these chapters lol.

I think the whole point is he's smart enough not to take every comment, story or farang conversation at face value.

[Beachlover]

Unfortunately, and I say this with a bit of apprehension, most adult Thais who live in poverty conditions do view us (farang) as a means of getting money.

Sounds like good advice from someone... who would have more experience than anyone else dating bar boys.

One difference would be that Matt is probably a lot younger than most farangs on this board, only 8 or 9 years older than his Thai BF, rather than the typical 20, 30 or even 40 year age difference. The question is how much weight does this factor carry?...

It's true... whilst Mama might be 'helping out' a little in the short term, in the long run, Matt's earning capacity would be many times more than anyone Kim's family... if she's aware of this, then it's a wise move to help out a little while things are temporarily tight.

That said, it's probably a mix of, looking after her son's partner, genuinely wanting to build a relationship with you, and also partly the money thing, which you can't ignore.

[Beachlover]

Many talk negatively about Thais because that has been their experience with Thais. It often pays to listen to others, it is up to you to take out of what you hear as genuine or bullshit, but often you can learn things from farangs who can give the benefit of their 'hindsight' without you possibly having to go though the same pain or pay the high price. But of course every relationship is different and there is no precise blueprint.


And whether you want to beleive it or not there are a VAST amount of farangs out there who have been seriously 'done over' by Thais. There are of course many farangs with a happy and non-threatening Thai environment, but i fear the ratio of being 'taken to the cleaners' to successful relationships would be scary.

I think the thing is to take into account the factors, which determined the outcome of each story. I would say a large part of it is the type of person they were (e.g. obviously if they're an idiot...), type of boy they went after, how they handled the relationship etc. All things, which you can control (except maybe your age and looks).

As with anything in life... The guys who have a lot of bad stories tend to have common factors at play across each one of them... e.g. themselves.

The question is how much weighting these factors (which are in your control) have over other factors outside your control like Thai culture, Thai ways, etc.


some calculating people can be prepared to wait a long time to get what they eventually want.

That's true... definitely not something to be underestimated.

[Beachlover]

Want to know one of the (many) hard parts of being in a relationship with a Thai? Listening to everyone else's bullshit, and prejudices.

Listen and make your own judgement on how valid people's stories are in relation to your own situation... take things as they come... and have fun!

I'm glad your relationship has made it this far and you're generally happy.

When the money runs out .... your're so called friends will disappear - for sure. Mama jumping on the bandwagon an all.

However, if it makes you happy and surely that means a lot and you can do this "money" thing up time and time again, then keep on going....

Generally, what happens is people's aims get higher and higher, to the point when you cannot handle it or afford it and you end up broke.

Your'e being milked mate. Wait and see.

In Genet's case he usually fell for younger heterosexual men with connections to the underworld. Genet several times in his life built houses for these lovers and reserved a room in each house for himself. He invariably befriended their wives and in disputes usually took their side. Because I'm gay myself and just thirty years younger than Genet, I flatter myself that I knew how to interpret these relationships. From my experience of the world I knew that such relationships between older gay "patrons," if you will, and younger heterosexual studs were quite common in the old Mediterranean world and I knew enough not to make too much of them or too little. (Edmund White)

"And so we lived, me and my little MOUSE ...
http://www.beyond-the-pale.co.uk/genet.jpg
... in that snug two by four where we kept HOUSE."

[DamienZ]

Most farangs simply can't comprehend this though. They're just not willing to believe it. If you think I'm wrong, just watch the replies to this thread. So now, I'm not going to bother listening to anything farangs tell me anymore. I've listened for the past year, keeping an open mind, and trying to learn. Pretty much everything they've said has turned out false though, so I'm not going to bother listening anymore. Because if I do, I start believing them, which causes way too much tension and second-guessing.

Hey Matt,
I personally enjoy hearing the stories, drama and all, about you and yours. As prior, I continue to wish both you and Kim continued success in your relationship and would love to read that one day you "beat the odds". I would assume that the only reason for your posts about this is because you-A)have no experience in this particular flavor of relationship (Thai/Farang), B)you love the man you are with and C) desire your relationship to succeed. My personal experience is that others opinions can damage any relationship, on the most subtle of levels. So after a certain point I had to decide not to ask. How important are the opinions of others anyway...really? I had to really look at why I was putting it out there to my associates who, for the most part, had little or no success in intimate relationships (present company excluded of course).
At the heart of it I was really looking more for approval than advice-which really had little if anything to do with any of my partners at the time.
The last and most obvious point is that if you and Kim are still together and in love after a year..well you pretty much are a success and have beat the odds and are in an enviable postion!
It's always one day at a time in love anyway right? :notworthy:

Chok Di!

DZ

[Beachlover]

I think he probably posts more as an outlet to reflect on the experiences he is having and issues he's facing... more so than to get expert advice... I mean, he can't exactly call his Mum or Dad up and discuss this stuff. It's good to hear what others have to say, even if it's comment like, "I hope your relationship works out" or something.

[allieb]

Matt

The subject farangs are idiots. I couldn't agree more. My own belief is that we are indeed idiots me included for ever believing that any of us can have a true relationship with a Thai.

Everything they do and in fact everything we do has a motive behind it. It may not be a consious one but something is behind every action. Before some asshole tells me not to speak on behalf of everbody let me stress this is MY OPINION.

The Thais are interested in MONEY as the number one. A close second comes security
Farangs are interested in getting their rocks off with a lad who is so often very much younger. In fact most Thai - Farang relationships would be seen as obsene in the west based on the age difference.

You Matt are in it up to your neck and your need to keep everybody posted on your day to day happenings be they good or bad,tellls me e that you are frustrated and don't realy know what the fuck is realy going on. Enjoy life with Kim while you can and make the most of it but don't be supprised when the house comes crashing down.

I will never stop believing that in every up country (Issan) family,there's at least one whore who's out there in Bangkok or Pattaya working his or her ass of to keep mumma happy.

I'm also going to add that whilst your relationship doesn't have the big age gap. It's still its going to end up on you keeping him mumma and goodness knows who else. Wait for it it's comming!!!!!!

[Beachlover]

My own belief is that we are indeed idiots me included for ever believing that any of us can have a true relationship with a Thai.

Everything they do and in fact everything we do has a motive behind it. It may not be a consious one but something is behind every action. Before some asshole tells me not to speak on behalf of everbody let me stress this is MY OPINION.

The Thais are interested in MONEY as the number one. A close second comes security

Are you crazy? You can't be so general as to say "Thais" are interested in money as the number one. Of course this will be the case if you're with a gogoboy, money boy or similar. It may also be the case if you appear wealthy and are with a very poor Thai boy.

But the majority of Thais are like any other people in the world. They want someone they can love on a personal level.

The thing with Thailand is there are lots of boys who are willing to overlook all the other attributes they desire, looks, age, similar culture, sex, personal connection etc. in return for financial payment. So obviously, in situations when you're with one of these boys, money will of course be their number one priority.

If you don't fulfill their other needs (in being a partner) then they're only with you for the financial benefit, which is compensation for missing the other attributes. Simple as that.


You Matt are in it up to your neck and your need to keep everybody posted on your day to day happenings be they good or bad,tellls me e that you are frustrated and don't realy know what the fuck is realy going on. Enjoy life with Kim while you can and make the most of it but don't be supprised when the house comes crashing down.

Why is it so bad that he seeks some advice, reflection or commentary here?

Matt's plunged into a pretty adventurous relationship. I don't think we really hear about the everyday stuff... just every now and then when there is a bit of drama... but what new relationship of this kind doesn't have that? Of course he's frustrated sometimes but it's not like he's panicking or despairing. Just seems to be riding it along as it comes.

There's a significant chance it will fail but you can't say that for sure. And if it does, he will have had fun and enjoyed the ride. Isn't that what life is about?

[Brad the Impala]

Matt

The subject farangs are idiots. I couldn't agree more. My own belief is that we are indeed idiots me included for ever believing that any of us can have a true relationship with a Thai.

Everything they do and in fact everything we do has a motive behind it. It may not be a consious one but something is behind every action. Before some asshole tells me not to speak on behalf of everbody let me stress this is MY OPINION!

You are not speaking on behalf of everybody, as you so presciently point out. What you do appear to be doing is speaking about everybody else. You reduce the entire Thai nation to the level of those with whom you have actually related, if that is not an exalted term for the arrangements. It sounds like you have been getting the treatment that your attitude deserves.

I will never stop believing that in every up country (Issan) family,there's at least one whore who's out there in Bangkok or Pattaya working his or her ass of to keep mumma happy.
[X] Marriage can be considered as a special form of prostitution with only one customer.

[X] Have a look at the aristocratic approach to marriage in Central Europe in the past:

Go to a ball. (Go-go bar)
[/*:m:1ifdak25]
Get a dance with the girl you are interested in.
[/*:m:1ifdak25]
Go to the father and tell him that you want to marry her.
[/*:m:1ifdak25]
The father checks the status and the financial situation of the candidate.

to keep mumma happy.[/*:m:1ifdak25]
If the father is generous he grants his daughter the power of veto.
[/*:m:1ifdak25]
If she exercises her veto too often the flow of candidates will dry down.
[/*:m:1ifdak25]
Engagement, marriage. Almost between strangers! [/*:m:1ifdak25]

[X] Conclusion: The go-go bar is the more humane solution!

[X]Talking of CONCLUSIONS, I have come to one:

You are in some kind of job where you are paid by the word.

Come on, admit it.

[X]

[X] Paid by the world? With love? Thank you, world!

[Diec]

I am 77 and my future husband is 19, I can honestly say that true love can be found in the land of smiles. He loves me for me, I don't give the family money, As a matter of fact, they will plan the wedding for us!!

Pass me a towel I just pissed myself laughing

:sign5: :sign5:

[X] Paid by the world? With love? Thank you, world!

[X] I didn't say "world"

:dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow: :dontknow:

[Wesley]

dude, you are so gay. everything is so dramatic haha. congrats on the new place and stuff.

Not a thing wrong with being all Gay, I hate gays that discriminate against less Masculine guys or more fem. I am not fem by any means , Bit I respect a guy who loves the Puppy the house the family and he whole deal

As for me I am a total slut so, who cares what anyone says about me , but I will defend anyone's right to live his live any way he likes fagot, gay, toy, queer or bi boy, toy boy or money boy to all of them in every catagory

I wish only All the best for them.

Wes

[allieb]

Pass me a towel I just pissed myself laughing

:sign5: :sign5:


I am 77 and my future husband is 19, I can honestly say that true love can be found in the land of smiles. He loves me for me, I don't give the family money, As a matter of fact, they will plan the wedding for us!!



And bring me a buckett and mop I've just thrown up

Of course he loves you and you don't give him money Ha Ha Ha. At 77 the whole family of vultures don't have to wait too long to get the lot. And If god willing you are in good health and look like living to a ripe old age They might decide to to terminate you. And I bet the family are planing the wedding. When is it Tommorow?

[Beachlover]

Matt

The subject farangs are idiots. I couldn't agree more. My own belief is that we are indeed idiots me included for ever believing that any of us can have a true relationship with a Thai.

Everything they do and in fact everything we do has a motive behind it. It may not be a consious one but something is behind every action. Before some asshole tells me not to speak on behalf of everbody let me stress this is MY OPINION!

You are not speaking on behalf of everybody, as you so presciently point out. What you do appear to be doing is speaking about everybody else. You reduce the entire Thai nation to the level of those with whom you have actually related, if that is not an exalted term for the arrangements. It sounds like you have been getting the treatment that your attitude deserves.

Well put...

[allieb]

Matt

The subject farangs are idiots. I couldn't agree more. My own belief is that we are indeed idiots me included for ever believing that any of us can have a true relationship with a Thai.

Everything they do and in fact everything we do has a motive behind it. It may not be a consious one but something is behind every action. Before some asshole tells me not to speak on behalf of everbody let me stress this is MY OPINION!

You are not speaking on behalf of everybody, as you so presciently point out. What you do appear to be doing is speaking about everybody else. You reduce the entire Thai nation to the level of those with whom you have actually related, if that is not an exalted term for the arrangements. It sounds like you have been getting the treatment that your attitude deserves.

Well put...

I had a relationship In the UK in the 70S that lasted 10 years and we are still best friends. I am in a relationship now which has lasted 20 years and still going strong I know what relationships are and I still maintain that it is almost imposible to have a meaningful relationship with a Thai. It's all about money unless you try to blot that out and are living in fairyland.

Beachlover please tell me about your successful love orientated relationships in Thailand and where am I going wrong ? I know your a young man so I will agree you get a 2% better chance.

[Beachlover]

My issue is that you're tarring everyone with the same brush. You can't say that about ALL relationships with Thais (I assume you mean foreigners). It's ridiculous to say every foreigner/Thai relationship is all about money. The role, which money plays in a relationship depends on who you are and what kind of boy you start a relationship with.

If a relationship (with a Thai) is started on a money basis (e.g. cdnmatt's) then of course it's highly likely the relationship will be "all about money".

But if you have a relationship with someone who is more your equal... e.g. similar age, looks, financial status... then money would be the last thing on anyone's mind.

I would also say there are plenty of Thais with integrity who wouldn't fall into a relationship with someone just because of money.

Not all Thais are poor and sell their bodies or would put up with being in relationship with guy who is not completely their type if only they were wealthy. I've met and gone out with middle-class Thai boys in Australia as well as in Thailand. As well as poorer Thai boys who would be completely insulted if you offered them money or implied they should be with you because you are wealthier than them and can support them.

Thai boys can be like guys anywhere else in the world... albeit, being Thai, lots of fun and probably better looking than most nationalities.

[yedo111]

Who knows, maybe theres a motive behind everything , its up to you to figure it out.... :dontknow:

My advice is , just enjoy the relationship as long as you can afford it.

[cdnmatt]

I still maintain that it is almost imposible to have a meaningful relationship with a Thai. It's all about money unless you try to blot that out and are living in fairyland.

Have you ever considered that it might be your attitude? Really, it sounds as though you treat Thai guys like total shit, so of course they're not going to have much respect for you, and will simply try to get what they can from you. That has nothing to do with Thais, and is just human nature.

I know probably half a dozen, cute, young gay guys right now who would love to be in a stable, loving relationship with a farang. And good people too, not just money boys. One is of the same mindset as Kim. Already had his heart broken, and has sworn off ever entering in a relationship with a Thai again. He genuinely wants a relationship with a farang now, especially while seeing what's happened to Kim's life. Good guy, not a money boy, and just wants a stable life with someone he knows won't lie to him, cheat on him, box him while drunk, etc.

[joe552]

Matt, why do those boys see farangs as being the answer, rather than a good Thai man? I understand the need to be loved, taken care of, etc. But why do the boys/men you talk about think that can't happen for them with a Thai? I assume we're not talking 'money boys' here, but the guys you talk about looking for a loving, long-term relationship have ruled out all the gay men in their country? Seems odd to me.

He genuinely wants a relationship with a farang now, especially while seeing what's happened to Kim's life.

р╣НRight...he's living in the sticks working for 100 baht a day, with absolutely no future, and has a sad farang hanging around taking his motocy away in order to punish him like a child. Sounds like an enviable life to me.

Don't forget the sex with the likes of matt, that must make him really envious........... :sign5:

[allieb]

Matt, why do those boys see farangs as being the answer, rather than a good Thai man? I understand the need to be loved, taken care of, etc. But why do the boys/men you talk about think that can't happen for them with a Thai? I assume we're not talking 'money boys' here, but the guys you talk about looking for a loving, long-term relationship have ruled out all the gay men in their country? Seems odd to me.

It's simple although Matt will not agree with me The Farang is the security they are looking for. Again Matt says Is sounds like I treat Thai Boys like total shit so they try to get what they can. Not true I have met many thai boys in the 8 years I've been comming to Thailand and have treated all the casual and the longer offs with the greatest respect and tipped well. The only long term Thai I had 3 years tried to take me to the cleaners and only looked upon me as a milking cow. Please everbody wake up and see whats going on with these old young Thai Farang relationships.

There's always a smart arse or two on this forum who will come back with "dont judge all Thais the same" Agreed there are always exceptions to the rule. like you dont always get mugged in Harlem alone in an ally at 2 AM drunk wearing a solid gold diamond studded watch and holding a cluch bag.

you dont always get mugged in Harlem alone in an ally at 2 AM drunk wearing a solid gold diamond studded watch and holding a cluch bag.
[X] And for a lower class Thai from Isaan a lower class Thai from Isaan isn't always the most attractive option.

Guys, they make a LIVING for pretending they like people when they have sex with them. They are MONEY BOYS. THAT IS WHAT THEY DO, AND THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE IN THE GAME FOR. Wake up and smell the fucking coffee for chrissakes. You guys talk like you've met an altar boy and are disappointed when he turns out to be in it for the money.

Date an appropriate partner -- in terms of socio-economic, education, background, and age -- and you won't have this problem. Can anyone say "duh"?

Well said. Now take the same message to those prats over at GTT...... :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

[Smiles]

Certainly the last six or seven replies in this thread provide a big 'YES' to the rather blunt observation in the topic's original title.
CastityBoi, Oops He Did It Again, allieb, homesoon, Bette Davis's Eyes ... what a geesey gaggle of classic wankers.

Certainly the last six or seven replies in this thread provide a big 'YES' to the rather blunt observation in the topic's original title.
CastityBoi, Oops He Did It Again, allieb, homesoon, Bette Davis's Eyes ... what a geesey gaggle of classic wankers.

Define Wanker.......An ageing farang who buys an ageing thai hooker a pick-up truck and calls it a business :sign5: :sign5: :sign5: :sign5: :sign5:

[Impulse]

Yes you can have a real relationship with Thai,even with the age difference. Smiles and others are living proof,in spite of all naysayers,who are enviuos or jealous themselves. It's just harder with one from the sex industry.And like Dodger has said,you must support the family to some extent.
Beachlover has made some great posts on this thread.Money boys are not born,they learn from others.It can work!

[yedo111]

If you are tired of moneyboys , just look for an educated rich thai man , and problem solved. It will be a relationship worth living for.

Yes he will probably be in his 30's but then you dont have to chase someone half your age every week ....

If you are tired of moneyboys , just look for an educated rich thai man , and problem solved. It will be a relationship worth living for.

Yes he will probably be in his 30's but then you dont have to chase someone half your age every week ....


If he is in his 30's he'll STILL be half the age of most of the SGT posters!



:laughing3:

[allieb]

Certainly the last six or seven replies in this thread provide a big 'YES' to the rather blunt observation in the topic's original title.
CastityBoi, Oops He Did It Again, allieb, homesoon, Bette Davis's Eyes ... what a geesey gaggle of classic wankers.

You've left yoursef out of the list farmer wanker I suppose you think they all love you for you and your not buying your boys

Deaf and dumb old circus horses ...
http://www.sequincrafts.co.uk/ekmps/shops/sequincrafts/images/0229circushorsel.jpg
... always have to come back to the arena.

[Beachlover]

Matt, why do those boys see farangs as being the answer, rather than a good Thai man? I understand the need to be loved, taken care of, etc. But why do the boys/men you talk about think that can't happen for them with a Thai? I assume we're not talking 'money boys' here, but the guys you talk about looking for a loving, long-term relationship have ruled out all the gay men in their country? Seems odd to me.

It's simple although Matt will not agree with me The Farang is the security they are looking for. Again Matt says Is sounds like I treat Thai Boys like total shit so they try to get what they can. Not true I have met many thai boys in the 8 years I've been comming to Thailand and have treated all the casual and the longer offs with the greatest respect and tipped well. The only long term Thai I had 3 years tried to take me to the cleaners and only looked upon me as a milking cow. Please everbody wake up and see whats going on with these old young Thai Farang relationships.

There's always a smart arse or two on this forum who will come back with "dont judge all Thais the same" Agreed there are always exceptions to the rule. like you dont always get mugged in Harlem alone in an ally at 2 AM drunk wearing a solid gold diamond studded watch and holding a cluch bag.

I don't disagree you treat Thai boys with respect and such.

But you can't claim all Thai boys are in relationships with foreigners for the money. Perhaps in the case of young/old relationships or with money boys this is the case. But what about those who date Thai boys their own age? What about dating a Thai boy who is financially secure and already reasonably wealthy? Or one who is already supported by his parents?

It's ridiculous to say the entire nation full of Thai boys only goes into relationships for the money... How insulting is that?

What if a Thai were to say all farangs from Western countries just travel to Thailand so they can pay to have sex with guys/girls half their age with no exceptions?

[allieb]

Matt, why do those boys see farangs as being the answer, rather than a good Thai man? I understand the need to be loved, taken care of, etc. But why do the boys/men you talk about think that can't happen for them with a Thai? I assume we're not talking 'money boys' here, but the guys you talk about looking for a loving, long-term relationship have ruled out all the gay men in their country? Seems odd to me.

It's simple although Matt will not agree with me The Farang is the security they are looking for. Again Matt says Is sounds like I treat Thai Boys like total shit so they try to get what they can. Not true I have met many thai boys in the 8 years I've been comming to Thailand and have treated all the casual and the longer offs with the greatest respect and tipped well. The only long term Thai I had 3 years tried to take me to the cleaners and only looked upon me as a milking cow. Please everbody wake up and see whats going on with these old young Thai Farang relationships.

There's always a smart arse or two on this forum who will come back with "dont judge all Thais the same" Agreed there are always exceptions to the rule. like you dont always get mugged in Harlem alone in an ally at 2 AM drunk wearing a solid gold diamond studded watch and holding a cluch bag.

I don't disagree you treat Thai boys with respect and such.

But you can't claim all Thai boys are in relationships with foreigners for the money. Perhaps in the case of young/old relationships or with money boys this is the case. But what about those who date Thai boys their own age? What about dating a Thai boy who is financially secure and already reasonably wealthy? Or one who is already supported by his parents?

It's ridiculous to say the entire nation full of Thai boys only goes into relationships for the money... How insulting is that?

What if a Thai were to say all farangs from Western countries just travel to Thailand so they can pay to have sex with guys/girls half their age with no exceptions?

Beachlover

You are in a very small minority of young men who come to Thailand and go with boys your own age. The majority of people are old and undesirable in their own countries, what they want doesn't want them. In comes Thailand, tailor made for the old queens. Flash a bit of money and youth comes back temporarily.

Again I must stress there are always exceptions to the rule so I don't and never have said WITHOUT EXCEPTION THE ENTIRE THAI NATION. I say and always will say the majotity of the Thai Nation. And in Pattaya its wall to wall pay as you go for the older queen.

You are young and of Asian origin ,so with the younger Thai boy not out for money, you stand a better chance than most.

[Beachlover]

I say and always will say the majotity of the Thai Nation..

Well, at least that's a step down. But I would still disagree the majority of the Thai nation is only after money in relationships. Pattaya, yes for sure. But whole of Thailand, no way. There are heaps of good looking, genuine, financially successful, charming Thai boys out there who are not after money in a relationship.

[cdnmatt]

Guys, they make a LIVING for pretending they like people when they have sex with them. They are MONEY BOYS. THAT IS WHAT THEY DO, AND THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE IN THE GAME FOR. Wake up and smell the fucking coffee for chrissakes. You guys talk like you've met an altar boy and are disappointed when he turns out to be in it for the money.

Should never generalize, because you'll always be wrong. For example, two facts about us:

1.) He's the one who always wants sex, not me. So I end up having to listen to him bitch, moan, and cry because I don't love him, and listen to him try to give me a guilt trip because the thai-farang relationship down the street have sex 2 - 3 times a day.

2.) I'm the one who always wants money, not him. He doesn't particularly seem to care. What the hell, he has a nice house, sofa, TV, motorcycle, everything to make thai BBQ at home, etc. Good enough for him, he's happy. Why do you think I want him to work (or goto school)? So he doesn't end up living in la-la land, and take the life I provide for granted (which I work hard for).

So much for your sterotypes. I guess it's just all part of the ploy though, right? Same as when he says he no longer wants to give mama money, because she just pisses it away on useless shit. All part of the ploy, right? I know, I know, just wait for it, it's coming!


Date an appropriate partner -- in terms of socio-economic, education, background, and age -- and you won't have this problem. Can anyone say "duh"?

Well, what fun would that be? :P Already been in a typical relationship, didn't work out, don't want to do it again. Besides, life's an adventure, and you gotta make the best of it. :-) And I'm extremely happy I embarked on this adventure, because life is great right now, and I wouldn't want anything different than the path I'm currently on.

[quote=Oops He Did It Again]Guys, they make a LIVING for pretending they like people when they have sex with them. They are MONEY BOYS. THAT IS WHAT THEY DO, AND THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE IN THE GAME FOR. Wake up and smell the fucking coffee for chrissakes. You guys talk like you've met an altar boy and are disappointed when he turns out to be in it for the money.

Should never generalize, because you'll always be wrong. For example, two facts about us:

1.) He's the one who always wants sex, not me. So I end up having to listen to him bitch, moan, and cry because I don't love him, and listen to him try to give me a guilt trip because the thai-farang relationship down the street have sex 2 - 3 times a day.

2.) I'm the one who always wants money, not him. He doesn't particularly seem to care. What the hell, he has a nice house, sofa, TV, motorcycle, everything to make thai BBQ at home, etc. Good enough for him, he's happy. Why do you think I want him to work (or goto school)? So he doesn't end up living in la-la land, and take the life I provide for granted (which I work hard for).

So much for your sterotypes. I guess it's just all part of the ploy though, right? Same as when he says he no longer wants to give mama money, because she just pisses it away on useless shit. All part of the ploy, right? I know, I know, just wait for it, it's coming!


Date an appropriate partner -- in terms of socio-economic, education, background, and age -- and you won't have this problem. Can anyone say "duh"?

Well, what fun would that be? :P Already been in a typical relationship, didn't work out, don't want to do it again. Besides, life's an adventure, and you gotta make the best of it. :-) And I'm extremely happy I embarked on this adventure, because life is great right now, and I wouldn't want anything different than the path I'm currently on.[/quote:2i4n6pnz]


But you still keep paying the little hookers bills.... :sign5: :sign5: :sign5:

[cdnmatt]

But you still keep paying the little hookers bills.... :sign5: :sign5: :sign5:


...and he continues to confuse a young guy wanting to get his rocks off with "love". His whole sorry story like a traffic accident: you don't want to look, but...

heh, do you guys have any idea of how pathetic you're beginning to sound? Those are your rebuttals? Really???

You're grasping...

[joe552]

Matt, you still haven't answered my question about your assertion that you know half a dozen gay Thai guys who don't want a relationship with a Thai, but only with a Westerner. Why would that be?

[cdnmatt]

Matt, you still haven't answered my question about your assertion that you know half a dozen gay Thai guys who don't want a relationship with a Thai, but only with a Westerner. Why would that be?

Ohhh, sorry about that. Just spend a decent amount of time in the villages, and put yourself in the shoes of a young gay guy with no future, and it's pretty easy to understand why. Who would you rather end up with in life? Someone who was raised in a good middle-class family, with good values & ethics, has a good job, is capable of providing, will always treat you with dignity and respect, etc. Or someone who grew up in the village, doesn't see anything beyond the limited world-view he's been given, probably won't be much more than a rice farmer (maybe something a little higher, but not much), somewhat good chance they'll piss away every extra 100 baht on thai whiskey, and also decent chance while in their drunken stupors will lie to you, cheat on you, etc...

Take your pick. Who would you rather settle down with?

Don't get me wrong, loads of people have already become complacent with the village lifestyle, they love it, and couldn't imagine anything else. Then there's the others who do want something better for themselves, but don't see any opportunity. Most won't agree with me, but I view it the same as the West works. For example, if my divorced aunt (great lady) had the choice of re-marrying a successful and good hearted businessman, versus some Walmart clerk, I'm pretty sure she'd take the businessman. Same shit, different pile.

Matt, you still haven't answered my question about your assertion that you know half a dozen gay Thai guys who don't want a relationship with a Thai, but only with a Westerner. Why would that be?

Ohhh, sorry about that. Just spend a decent amount of time in the villages, and put yourself in the shoes of a young gay guy with no future, and it's pretty easy to understand why. Who would you rather end up with in life? Someone who was raised in a good middle-class family, with good values & ethics, has a good job, is capable of providing, will always treat you with dignity and respect, etc. Or someone who grew up in the village, doesn't see anything beyond the limited world-view he's been given, probably won't be much more than a rice farmer (maybe something a little higher, but not much), somewhat good chance they'll piss away every extra 100 baht on thai whiskey, and also decent chance while in their drunken stupors will lie to you, cheat on you, etc...

Take your pick. Who would you rather settle down with?

Don't get me wrong, loads of people have already become complacent with the village lifestyle, they love it, and couldn't imagine anything else. Then there's the others who do want something better for themselves, but don't see any opportunity. Most won't agree with me, but I view it the same as the West works. For example, if my divorced aunt (great lady) had the choice of re-marrying a successful and good hearted businessman, versus some Walmart clerk, I'm pretty sure she'd take the businessman. Same shit, different pile.

But why should he go for a middle-aged farang as opposed to a middle class thai boy his own age if he is not a money boy?

[Aunty]

.......Who would you rather end up with in life? Someone who was raised in a good middle-class family, with good values & ethics, has a good job, is capable of providing, will always treat you with dignity and respect, etc. Or someone who grew up in the village, doesn't see anything beyond the limited world-view he's been given, probably won't be much more than a rice farmer (maybe something a little higher, but not much), somewhat good chance they'll piss away every extra 100 baht on thai whiskey, and also decent chance while in their drunken stupors will lie to you, cheat on you, etc...

Take your pick. Who would you rather settle down with?

Don't get me wrong, loads of people have already become complacent with the village lifestyle, they love it, and couldn't imagine anything else. Then there's the others who do want something better for themselves, but don't see any opportunity.


Wow, you really have some attitude. And do you really think there is even a sliver of sunlight of difference between the two socioeconomic groups of the type that you claim? That each groupтАЩs тАШinherent traitsтАЩ (as advanced by you) are manifest by background and therefore simply donтАЩt exist in the other group? Lol, youтАЩre real funny, and stupid.

Who would you rather end up with in life? Someone who was raised in a good working-class rural family, with good values & ethics, has a job, is capable of providing, will always treat you with dignity and respect, etc. Or someone who grew up in the city, doesn't see anything beyond the limited world-view he's been given, probably won't be much more than middle class (maybe something a little higher, but not much), somewhat good chance they'll piss away every extra 100 bucks on booze, cars and keeping up with the Joneses, and also decent chance while in their drunken stupors will lie to you, cheat on you, etc...

Take your pick. Who would you rather settle down with?

Don't get me wrong, loads of people have already become complacent with the middle class lifestyle, they love it, and couldn't imagine anything else. Then there's the others who do want something better for themselves, but don't see any opportunity.........

Why donтАЩt you tell your Thai pet and your neighboursтАЩ of your sneering superior attitude towards them? More power to your boyfriend I say. Most posters here will know what I mean.

[Beachlover]

I guess it's just all part of the ploy though, right? Same as when he says he no longer wants to give mama money, because she just pisses it away on useless shit. All part of the ploy, right? I know, I know, just wait for it, it's coming!

Ok, but don't underestimate the ability of some boys or people in general to position themselves with the aim of maximising value extracted in the long term. People do that when they see potential.

[Beachlover]

Why do you keep on talking as if there are no Thai men who were "raised in a good middle-class family, with good values & ethics, has a good job, is capable of providing, will always treat you with dignity and respect"? I think your view of Thailand is getting warped by spending too much time at the bottom of the pond.

There certainly are plenty of these guys around.

But perhaps they, being fairly class-conscious, are less accessible to poor, working class Thai boys who they might look down on. This is compared with foreigners who don't carry the same perspectives on class and such in Thailand and have a more open view on the boys they choose to form relationships with.

[cdnmatt]

I guess it's just all part of the ploy though, right? Same as when he says he no longer wants to give mama money, because she just pisses it away on useless shit. All part of the ploy, right? I know, I know, just wait for it, it's coming!

Ok, but don't underestimate the ability of some boys or people in general to position themselves with the aim of maximising value extracted in the long term. People do that when they see potential.

Ok, but again, this is just perception of Thai-farang relationships, and this relates directly to why I started this thread in the first place. Take my analogy again of the single woman who is more attracted to the successful businessman versus the Walmart clerk. That happens all the time. She wants that good life the businessman can provide, and is in it for the long term too, right? How is this any different?

Of course Kim's in it for the long-term, but so am I. If he wants, I have no problem staying with him until the day one of us dies. I could understand if there was say 60 years difference in age, but there's only 8 years, so not a big deal, especially in Thailand. None of our neighbors have any issue with it at all. Their biggest issue is our puppy gets too excited and playful at times.

You know, it's just the fact that people view Thai-farang relationships differently than "normal" relationships. Up to them, and I don't give a shit anymore, and I know Kim doesn't either. Then I have all these farangs in town giving me "advice", which is getting extremely aggravating. You know, these are all people who are alone after a failed relationship, control, don't trust, look down on, despise their better half, or whatever. Taking relationship advice from these people is like taking financial advice from a homeless bum. Just plain stupid...

If life with your Thai prostitute is so wonderful why come on here and annoy us??

[Dodger]

cdnMatt wrote:


Take my analogy again of the single woman who is more attracted to the successful businessman versus the Walmart clerk. That happens all the time. She wants that good life the businessman can provide, and is in it for the long term too, right? How is this any different?

Matt...it's not any different.

According to current rerports on the divorce rate in America:
The divorce rate for first marriage is 41%
The divorce rate for second marriage is 60%
The divorce rate for third marriage is 73%

...as compared to current reports (mostly coming from drunk farangs), over 99% of all attempted long-term relationships between a farang and a Thai boy who has been employed in the sex industry, fail in less than 2 years.

In this comparative scenerio, the wants and needs of both the woman and the Thai boy are one in the same - focused on money and security, and that financial stress and infidelity always rank as the most prevelant root causes of their failed relationships.

The LTR I've been embarked on with my bf has only gone as long as it has because I have continued to provide the money and security he needs, although I get very little in return, at least as compared to my early expectations of the relationship. He's a pain in the ass, lies like there's no tomorrow and has absolutley no inner vision of being with me in his long-term future. He's been stashing the money I give him in a seperate bank account, helping his parents to buy more and more farm land and hoping that his future will involve meeting and falling in love with a handsome young Thai boy of his own culture and age bracket. No, he hasn't told me these things, but he doesn't have to...It's just the way nature works and I love him enough to want to see all these things happen.

If you love him and want to see him happy in his life and can accept the things I just said, then give of yourself freely, although don't sell your own farm in the process.

You sound like a jai dee person with the best of intentions - and only having an 8 year age gap in your relationship certainly gives you an edge over most (including me), just remember that the acknowledgement of "impermanance" is embedded in the Thais soul - and thinking too much (about yourself) will only result in pain and suffering. If being with him makes you happy - then be with him, but if you're trying to plan or control the future...then I believe you are planning by yourself.

mai pen rai

[Beachlover]

Ok, but again, this is just perception of Thai-farang relationships, and this relates directly to why I started this thread in the first place. Take my analogy again of the single woman who is more attracted to the successful businessman versus the Walmart clerk. That happens all the time. She wants that good life the businessman can provide, and is in it for the long term too, right? How is this any different?

I agree. The thing that matters is the 'ratio'. How much of his commitment to the relationship is based on the financial security you offer and how much based on the fact that he might have grown to really love you as a person. If the ratio is weighted too heavily to the 'money' side the relationship won't turn out as you might like. It's very difficult to determine this, of course.


You know, it's just the fact that people view Thai-farang relationships differently than "normal" relationships. Up to them, and I don't give a shit anymore, and I know Kim doesn't either. Then I have all these farangs in town giving me "advice", which is getting extremely aggravating. You know, these are all people who are alone after a failed relationship, control, don't trust, look down on, despise their better half, or whatever. Taking relationship advice from these people is like taking financial advice from a homeless bum. Just plain stupid...

Well, it's like listening to people talk about anything else in life. When you get people who are moaning or offering strongly worded advice you need to assess where it's coming from and whether the same factors apply to your own situation. E.g.... it could really be the nature of Thai boys in general... or perhaps that particular farang is just an idiot with low intelligence/means.

[Beachlover]

You sound like a jai dee person with the best of intentions - and only having an 8 year age gap in your relationship certainly gives you an edge over most (including me), just remember that the acknowledgement of "impermanance" is embedded in the Thais soul - and thinking too much (about yourself) will only result in pain and suffering. If being with him makes you happy - then be with him, but if you're trying to plan or control the future...then I believe you are planning by yourself.

mai pen rai

Nicely put... I agree.

[Beachlover]

If life with your Thai prostitute is so wonderful why come on here and annoy us??

Why not just ignore his posts instead of being a dick by harping on repeating that his BF is/was a prostitute? He knows this. Everyone here knows this.

I enjoy reading his posts as do many others here... even if it's just to poke at them.

[cdnmatt]

If life with your Thai prostitute is so wonderful why come on here and annoy us??

Why not just ignore his posts instead of being a dick by harping on repeating that his BF is/was a prostitute? He knows this. Everyone here knows this.

He's not a prostitute though, or at least I don't consider him one, and I don't think 3 weeks in the industry makes him one. He's some guy who was working at a restaurant 12 - 16 hours a day for 3500 baht/month, and sleeping in a room upstairs with several other people. Then one of his friends from Pattaya explained he was making 30 - 40,000 baht/month, so Kim decided he better check it out. Turns out he hated it, but met me, and decided he better stick around Pattaya for a bit.

If you have to label him, I'd say dancer at Issan concerts, or waiter would be far more realistic, as he's done both of those for years.

Beachlover and cdnmatt = a sex tourist and a farang sucker! What a pair, although I must bow to their superior knowledge :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

[cdnmatt]

Beachlover and cdnmatt = a sex tourist and a farang sucker! What a pair, although I must bow to their superior knowledge

And let me guess... you're some guy who has sex with 3 - 5 different people a week, then sits around with a bunch of farangs drinking, and bitching about everything under the sun. Then you end up sitting by yourself at home, eating some disgusting meal, and wondering why your life is so shitty and filled with loneliness.

Piss off...

It's now 04:05 and he's still up waiting for the hooker to come home, maybe he has an all nighter..... :laughing3: :laughing3: :laughing3: :laughing3:

[cdnmatt]

Matt...It is now 3:30 am Thai time and you are still online!

The majority of my work is based out of Vancouver and LA. That's a 14 hour time difference, hence why I'm frequently online during late hours.


thought before you were on to a good thing....But you are way over the top!....Get a life....!

Honestly, I don't think so. More than once Kim and myself have abruptly left a gathering, because the other people there couldn't stop themselves from talking down about Thai people. It pisses me off, plus hurts Kim, as it makes him feel like some second grade human. Then of course, since I side with Kim instead of my fellow white man, these guys tell me how I'm such a clueless, naive idiot who doesn't understand what he's doing. All the while, Kim has proven beyond any shadow of a doubt he has a far better heart and morals than any of those guys.

That's why I'm so defensive these days. If you're not capable of treating Kim the same way you treat me, then more than likely, I don't want to know you.

cdnmatt,the more defensive and supportive you are of Kim, the more it infuriates the meanspirited among us....well done keep it up!!You have something they know they are incapable of ever having....a mutual caring relationship. :love4:

:sign5: :sign5:

[Beachlover]

He's not a prostitute though, or at least I don't consider him one, and I don't think 3 weeks in the industry makes him one. He's some guy who was working at a restaurant 12 - 16 hours a day for 3500 baht/month, and sleeping in a room upstairs with several other people. Then one of his friends from Pattaya explained he was making 30 - 40,000 baht/month, so Kim decided he better check it out. Turns out he hated it, but met me, and decided he better stick around Pattaya for a bit.

If you have to label him, I'd say dancer at Issan concerts, or waiter would be far more realistic, as he's done both of those for years.

I would classify him as "WAS a prostitute".... whether he took to it or not (I suppose it's a positive if he really didn't like it and intended to leave after a bit) is debatable. And whether you say, "IS a prostitute"... well, that's also up for debate but I would rather say he is not.

After 3 weeks... he really is lucky you came along.

[Beachlover]

Beachlover and cdnmatt = a sex tourist and a farang sucker! What a pair, although I must bow to their superior knowledge :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

If I'm a sex tourist in Thailand (I don't deny I visit on my way through because the guys are cute, friendly and lots of fun) then I'm also a sex tourist in about 5 other countries... or really any country I visit, really.

[Beachlover]

Beachlover and cdnmatt = a sex tourist and a farang sucker! What a pair, although I must bow to their superior knowledge

And let me guess... you're some guy who has sex with 3 - 5 different people a week, then sits around with a bunch of farangs drinking, and bitching about everything under the sun. Then you end up sitting by yourself at home, eating some disgusting meal, and wondering why your life is so shitty and filled with loneliness.

Piss off...

Sounds about right... another bitter old loser fuckstick.

Haha... disgusting meals alone and all...

[Beachlover]

True... Nobody's perfect though.

[cdnmatt]

It takes a certain mentality to agree to "check out" the industry of selling oneself for sex.

Yes, it's called desperation. Trust me, we're all capable of it. Don't kid yourself into thinking you're not capable of digging through the garbage for food scraps. We're all capable of that, if the situation warrants.

[Impulse]

It is not called desperation.

It is called laziness, lack of ambition, and lack of self-respect. And it doesn't end when the boy comes down off the stage. It amazes me how some of these guys will turn to prostitution in order to help their family back home.I have to admire it as I could never imagine doing the same thing.But the sex industry seems to be part of their culture.
Lack of self respect...maybe.I don't think I would call it laziness,or lack of ambition though.More lack of direction from family members.No one showing them where to go for work or education(can't afford it).So they hear from a friend of a friend a guy who makes lots of money working in a bar.How bad can it be? Once there,what else are they going to do? Its a living.Most would rather do something else more than likely.
It's easy to say they have other choices,but from their perspective,I don't think it's that easy.

[cdnmatt]

It is called laziness, lack of ambition, and lack of self-respect. And it doesn't end when the boy comes down off the stage.

Alot of the guys leave the rice farm to enter prostitution, for example. I don't see how working 16 hour labour days in hot & humid weather, just to eat some papaya and sticky rice could be considered lazy.

Ambition for what? Make a 120 baht/day rice farming? Or maybe 6000 baht/month as a waiter at some nice restaurant? Build yourself up to what? How are you possibly going to do anything with your life if you're stuck working 60 - 90 hours a week for say 6000/month?

[quote="Oops He Did It Again":3mgktild]It is called laziness, lack of ambition, and lack of self-respect. And it doesn't end when the boy comes down off the stage.

Alot of the guys leave the rice farm to enter prostitution, for example. I don't see how working 16 hour labour days in hot & humid weather, just to eat some papaya and sticky rice could be considered lazy.


It's not.

"Working" for a couple hours in a bar at night while fishing for a long-term customer INSTEAD of working for yourself and your future is lazy.

And you own one, big big.

As for "helping your family"...I'd say most of the bar boys are more interested in fancy cell phones and a bottle of black at the nearest disco rather than helping anyone but themselves. That's how they roll. Then, when they get strung out, old, and ugly, it's back to the farm with nothing to show.[/quote:3mgktild]


That's one thing about all this that I don't get, Matt. You keep on insisting how perfect your bf is and how well your relationship is playing out.

Why then do you come here preaching to and insulting people (yes, I consider "farangs are stupid" an insult) and do not just enjoy your nice life?
I've been with an ex-barboy before for a relationship of 18 months (and they are all "ex" and "not really" prostitutes, right? Because it hurts), and it was a perfect and nice time for me. In fact, sometimes he made me feel more loved and more cared for than my current Thai bf (who is middle-class); if, well if, you could see past the fact that he was disappearing some nights, had fun on the sides, and generally seemed to enjoy the "good" things in life.

My eyes were opened when I experienced that, in contrast to his (I must say near-perfect) "act" of caring, when my life didn't turn out the way he had expected, he started to look for alternative partners. His agenda was, simply and frankly, to find security for his future, and most of all financial security.

I don't condemn that and as you have rightly pointed out, there are loads of women all over the world who act like that.

However, I strongly believe this is not a good basis of a relationship and I have never seen a relationship like that work out.

That's why I told you a few months back that I would like to hear back from you in about 2 years because I am really curious if you're really so lucky with Kim and if really everything is so different - believe me, I thought it was all different for me, too.
It would restore my faith in ex-barboys in general ;)

[Beachlover]

I don't think he's ever said his BF was perfect...

But your warning and story is a well thought caution... I suppose if you're a farang in Thailand after a relationship... gogo boys and moneyboys are "the low hanging fruit" which come with downsides.

[Beachlover]

look here beachlover.

Everything could happen. prostitutes got feelings too, so why not for someone like Matt (not negative)?

My opinion: he posts the story of his life here and many people like to read about it. it's logical that he will get comments from people who have experiences with Thai boys that worked out well and with others it went sour. It's possible that it's a match made in heaven but it's just as possible (statistical probably more) that it won't work out.

I agree. Anything could happen. I would never say it's perfect and WILL work out for sure. Nor would I say for certain it's doomed.

What is annoying is the farangs who immediately jump to conclusions and say for certain it will fail. There's a difference between saying, "look... you should be aware... statistically... gogo boys have been known to... etc." and blasting out, "he's just in it for the money, you won't last more than a few months, that's for certain".

I suppose some are saying it on more certain terms in the hope of providing a stronger warning... but it seems like a lot just want to attack him for their own benefit.


His posts seem to be oblivious to the fact that it can all be based on a ploy. He probably has never heard of the "LONG CON." When i came to Thailand the first time, I was Matt's age. I had/have many Farang friends in Thailand (all ages) that got taking to the cleaners. I guess that at least some of them were smarter than Matt and still they went down.

Now, instead of trying to convince everyone on this board of Kim's noble intentions, he could just face the fact; it could all be as negative as some posters are warning for.


Another cautionary tale...

See? This is useful. Yelling, "he's going to con you" and "he's a prostitute and you're a dumb idiot" isn't so constructive.


I say, he should enjoy his time with Kim, keep posting but stop pretending that he knows it all.

I agree he should just enjoy his time with Kim... I guess the million dollar question is whether Kim is ONLY in it for the money, physical comfort and security... or actually has some feelings for Matt. I hope it's the later. And I know there have been some cases where it IS the later. They are rare but do exist.

But I don't think Matt's been posting as a, "no it all" as some have attacked him for. If anything, most of his posts have been to induce discussion and probe for opinions, tales and experiences. When he does posts stories of what's been happening... I suppose the challenge is to sort the riff raff dickhead reponses from the more genuine constructive ones...

[cdnmatt]

As for "helping your family"...I'd say most of the bar boys are more interested in fancy cell phones and a bottle of black at the nearest disco rather than helping anyone but themselves. That's how they roll. Then, when they get strung out, old, and ugly, it's back to the farm with nothing to show.

Aren't you the guy who was bitching at me a while ago, because I told Kim I wanted him to goto work (or school)? Never forced him, but just told him I wanted him too, so off he goes (usually). Why do you think I wanted him to work? So he doesn't become detached from reality as the years tick by, and end up acting like some rich, spoiled brat (the type of person you described).


That's one thing about all this that I don't get, Matt. You keep on insisting how perfect your bf is and how well your relationship is playing out.

heh, no, no, no... hardly perfect. Don't worry, we get on each others nerves a fair amount, and have our share of arguments. I have said it's a pretty genuine relationship though, which in essence means it's far from perfect. :-)


Why then do you come here preaching to and insulting people (yes, I consider "farangs are stupid" an insult)

Ok, sorry, I'll rephrase. All the farangs I've personally met in Issan are idiots. There we go, that's better. I'm sorry, but it's true, and just gets tiring. Go out for the night with some guys, and after a couple drinks sure enough, they start railing on about Thais. How they're all lieing, deceitful, devious cunts who only care about your money, and will fuck you over at any chance, etc. Then after a couple more drinks, many times they'll start in on me. Go off about how I'm a really good guy with a good heart, but I'm stupid, clueless, naive, simply don't understand Thailand, and don't know what I'm getting myself into, etc.

Of course, the irony being, mine and Kim's relationship is probably far stronger and more genuine than any of their relationships. Yet, they have no problem offering me "advice", and telling me how stupid I am. Kinda the same as this board. Actually, exactly the same. Then I end up having to listen to Kim get all hurt, and crying, because he actually thinks I listen to these guys, and take their advice. I could never treat someone like that, especially someone I love. I'd rather be alone, before I ever treated someone like that.


and do not just enjoy your nice life?

See above. That, and I work from home behind a computer in Issan of all places in the world. And I like to write, so sometimes after putting in a good day of work, I'll relax by myself with some good music, a couple beers, and write away to get my thoughts out. It helps. If someone doesn't want to read it, they can put me on ignore. I don't give a shit in the least. At least I actually post content, instead of "you're stupid" ... "no, you're stupider" type comments.


That's why I told you a few months back that I would like to hear back from you in about 2 years because I am really curious if you're really so lucky with Kim and if really everything is so different

Ok, sounds good, and we'll see what happens. I have no idea either. Am I taking a chance with my life and heart by going so deep into a relationship? Most definitely. Am I willing to take that risk? After a year of being together, most definitely. You only live once, and I don't want to lay on my death bed full of regrets. I'm still a little cautious, and so is he. It continually subsides as the weeks & months tick by though. Time will tell!

[Aunty]

and do not just enjoy your nice life?
That, and I work from home behind a computer in Issan of all places in the world.

Oh that does sound awfully clandestine. You don't by chance own a Rolls Royce?

[youtube:xspd8koh]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bkTY8YHFWY[/youtube:xspd8koh]

[Beachlover]

I'll rephrase. All the farangs I've personally met in Issan are idiots.

ALL farangs? What about your lovely neighbours? Are they farang or Thai?

As for the ones you describe drinking with... you might be better off avoiding that kind of company.


I like to write, so sometimes after putting in a good day of work, I'll relax by myself with some good music, a couple beers, and write away to get my thoughts out. It helps.

True huh? I'm having a beer right now.


At least I actually post content, instead of "you're stupid" ... "no, you're stupider" type comments.

That's right...


we'll see what happens. I have no idea either. Am I taking a chance with my life and heart by going so deep into a relationship? Most definitely. Am I willing to take that risk? After a year of being together, most definitely.

As long as you realise the risk... it's fine. I have my doubts about a relationship started on money... but this may well be an exception.