Amor and Cafe Royale restaurant closing for renovations?

[lonelywombat]

Friend just rang to say he had seen on one of the sites that Amor and Cafe Royale are closing for susposed renovations. Has there been a sign erected on either place or is it just word of mouth.

Personally I thought CR went down hill after Robbie passed away. The floor staff were disinterested and the meals not up to their standards of a few years back.

I had noticed on gayaffairspattaya.com that Hugh is back again at Ambience, whether he is the right man for the job we will have to wait and see.

You are certainly correct about the CR food standards going downhill.
The last 2 meals I have had were both almost inedible.
I put the 1st one down to bad luck but the 2nd one confirmed the decline.

Here's hoping things improve.

:occasion9:

The last time i ate at LCR, which was only 2 weeks ago, i was violently sick! and it could only have been from there, because it was the only meal i ate that night, i had eaten there about 3 weeks earlier, and then i thought the food was not good, but at least i was not sick! no wonder the place is empty, and i am sure the waiter that served me was very drunk, i asked my thsi friend who was with me, and he agreed that he appeard drunk, and his speech was slured? needless to say, i wont be back, maybe i will re-visit the refurbished Amor?
Has anybody else had bad food experiences at LCR, or is it just me?

[Beachlover]

Violently sick? What happened to the mouthwatering orgasmic delight?

I hope your not referring to el duo? i was in tonight (literally!) and although i did not partacke of their culinary delights, i did have to endure mr toi, the resident singer, tearing into lady gaga, bad romance, well, love her or hate her ( i am in the latter camp) their are some songs that you just don't cover, and trust me, this is one of them, thank god i was the only customer! food side, beststick to a bag of cheese & onion, and some pork scratchings!

It actually shows that workers do not give a **** when in a lot of industry, this is not just in Thailand its all over the world, if they are not supervised properly, then you just don't get the service. Some of the attitude of these waiters in a few of the gay establishments is just incredible, the attitude is beaming off them. They basically don't want to do a minimum wage job, they want to be "pop stars" instead. It is common sense on how to prepare and keep food, especially to someone who has been "doing it for years". So, there's no excuse.

Having said that, I never complain at a restaurant or ask them to send the food back for whatever reason. If I complain it is generally after the meal (obviously if something was "off" then I wouldn't eat it). If you complain and the food goes back to the kitchen, who knows what they will do to it, if you complain heavily they might even spit in it and give it to you back. And I bet this is common. Similar to airlines, problem passengers, the stewards/esses are well known to "do things".

Don't complain until after your meal and do not go back to the establishment, simple - and more importantly keep posting complaints on a board like this for other people to view. In that way, establishments will have to book up their ideas.

On another note, and Pattaya specifically, I went to Wild West one night, not to go overboard, but there was some kind of problem, nothing to do with me - but, anyway, the only thing the mamasan and waiters were interested in was paying the bill - you wouldn't believe how anxious they were to "get the money in". Understandable I suppose, after all it is a business - but I won't be visiting that place again.

... If you complain and the food goes back to the kitchen, who knows what they will do to it...they might even spit in it.... And I bet this is common....well known to "do things"..

This reminds me of being warned (by the mother of an ex-member of their staff) never to eat in a certain ********'s in Newcastle Upon Tyne because the young kitchen boys thought it amusing to occasionally ejaculate on to the burgers.

Needless to say I made it my habit to eat there every night from then on.

:occasion9: :occasion9:

[bao-bao]

If one becomes "violently sick" after eating somewhere the mature thing to do would be to contact the manager and let them know as soon as possible. Sometimes that helps correct the problem. The immature thing to do would be to make an unsubstantiated claim on a forum and try to damage a place's reputation. Far too often that's done here as part of some sort of childish game.

How long after eating did you get sick? There are basic "rule of thumb" time frames for the onset of various food-born problems. What other possible contaminants had you been exposed to within that time frame? Had you possibly been exposed to it from another source, say, that morning at breakfast - or the previous evening?

If nobody else but you got sick from dining there the previous evening, you might want to consider the source (as should we, regarding posts like that).

[frequentflier]

I was in Pattaya for a few weeks in april..I did notice that Amor was not doing any business.As far as LCR is concerned I would not eat there at all.I am told that Amor is forsale and hopefully LCR will improve after the renovations.One never knows whats happening in Pattaya regarding the openings and closings of various venues.They seem to come and go all the time.LCR is really due for an upgrade,not just the restaurant but the entire hotel..El Duo are well past their time and the singer there should now retire. LCR used to be a great late night bar when Ian and Robbie were there.I had many a great night there and it idid not need the likes of El Dou to get people in.But times change .....and maybe we all should......regardless I hope these venues are brought back to their former glory..we can only hope....

Yes I feel some of these joints should be upgraded, they are little tired. LCR's Piano Bar could become a different coloured hanky every night club, red, yellow and brown nights. Any suggestions for BBB!

LCR is really due for an upgrade,not just the restaurant but the entire hotel....I hope these venues are brought back to their former glory..we can only hope....

Unlikely.The problem is not primarily the interior finishing of hotel/restaurant/cafe places. The problem is primarily twofold: the bars and the customers. As being discussed right now on GayThailand.com, the bars have lost appeal because of disrepute: poor service, increasing prices. Gay tourists are not coming to Thailand in same numbers as before, and no gay-oriented hotel/restaurants/cafe can do well under such circumstances. The other aspect is that those who might otherwise be loyal are dying off. These places serve a certain ethno-cultural set of a certain generation (i.e. older farang) and do not make any effort to appeal to other target markets - the huge potential markets of gay Chinese, Koreans, Indians - even as their old customers drop dead.

[Marsilius]

These places serve a certain ethno-cultural set of a certain generation (i.e. older farang) and do not make any effort to appeal to other target markets...

But don't you think that that's because they are run on an economic model that you don't see - as far as I am aware - anywhere else in the world?

Many of these businesses, as we know from personal experience or anecdote, are bought and run by ageing Westerners, often with no previous experience in running a commercial concern, and are operated on a virtually not-for-profit basis. The owners are looking, in their declining years, for a warm-weather location with congenial young men as company. Many of them have their life savings at their disposal and, as gay men, may have no dependents back home to leave their assets to. So, having discovered Thailand on their holidays, they imagine that settling there permanently and running one of those go-go bars/gay hotels/gay restaurants that they've previously enjoyed as customers would be a pleasant way to fill their time.

With such an unprofessional way of going into it, and with no real need to make a profit (but just to avoid making too much of a loss), many of them don't develop a viable business plan - as evidenced in their poor quality and derivative product, virtually non-existent marketing, lack of appreciation of the need for good customer relations and wider PR, inability to handle staff effectively (except, maybe, in the literal sense!), etc. Their places thus become to all intents and purposes simply vanity projects and - if they're putting on entertainment - soon reflect their owners' "cultural" tastes. That is why we see so many of the horrendously dated drag/cabaret shows that were so popular (for want of very much else) at the very time in the 1960s and 1970s when the owners' own personal cultural outlooks and identities as gay men were being formed.

[Beachlover]

LCR is really due for an upgrade,not just the restaurant but the entire hotel....I hope these venues are brought back to their former glory..we can only hope....

Unlikely.The problem is not primarily the interior finishing of hotel/restaurant/cafe places. The problem is primarily twofold: the bars and the customers. As being discussed right now on GayThailand.com, the bars have lost appeal because of disrepute: poor service, increasing prices. Gay tourists are not coming to Thailand in same numbers as before, and no gay-oriented hotel/restaurants/cafe can do well under such circumstances. The other aspect is that those who might otherwise be loyal are dying off. These places serve a certain ethno-cultural set of a certain generation (i.e. older farang) and do not make any effort to appeal to other target markets - the huge potential markets of gay Chinese, Koreans, Indians - even as their old customers drop dead.

It's interesting... the places that do (work to attract different market segments) seem to do well... e.g. Dream Boys in Bangkok... DJ Station... etc.

[Beachlover]

These places serve a certain ethno-cultural set of a certain generation (i.e. older farang) and do not make any effort to appeal to other target markets...

But don't you think that that's because they are run on an economic model that you don't see - as far as I am aware - anywhere else in the world?

Many of these businesses, as we know from personal experience or anecdote, are bought and run by ageing Westerners, often with no previous experience in running a commercial concern, and are operated on a virtually not-for-profit basis. The owners are looking, in their declining years, for a warm-weather location with congenial young men as company. Many of them have their life savings at their disposal and, as gay men, may have no dependents back home to leave their assets to. So, having discovered Thailand on their holidays, they imagine that settling there permanently and running one of those go-go bars/gay hotels/gay restaurants that they've previously enjoyed as customers would be a pleasant way to fill their time.

With such an unprofessional way of going into it, and with no real need to make a profit (but just to avoid making too much of a loss), many of them don't develop a viable business plan - as evidenced in their poor quality and derivative product, virtually non-existent marketing, lack of appreciation of the need for good customer relations and wider PR, inability to handle staff effectively (except, maybe, in the literal sense!), etc. Their places thus become to all intents and purposes simply vanity projects and - if they're putting on entertainment - soon reflect their owners' "cultural" tastes. That is why we see so many of the horrendously dated drag/cabaret shows that were so popular (for want of very much else) at the very time in the 1960s and 1970s when the owners' own personal cultural outlooks and identities as gay men were being formed.

Hehe... nail on the head.

Not to worry though. LMTU's hghly-professional PR skills and Lonely's dynamic 'make it happen' strategies will turn things around. It's like watching Dad's army lol.

But don't you think that that's because they are run on an economic model that you don't see - as far as I am aware - anywhere else in the world?

And that's exactly it. Your (IMO correct) analysis of the (un)economic model is precisely why the glory days will not be returning. They are the past, not the future.

To an extent I think your analyisis is right, but since the customers predominantly come from the same age range as the management (sometimes the customers are even older), they ought to be into the same kind of outdated entertainment? So why then would it not be successful?

Is it not as much (or more) to do with the nationality factor. Most of the dragged up old Queens seem to be British (and to a smaller extent European) whereas you more rarely see it put on as "entertainment" where other nationalities are in charge.

:dontknow:

To an extent I think your analyisis is right, but since the customers predominantly come from the same age range as the management (sometimes the customers are even older), they ought to be into the same kind of outdated entertainment? So why then would it not be successful?

As I said, it won't succeed because the customers are dying, or else too decrepit to travel anymore.


Is it not as much (or more) to do with the nationality factor. Most of the dragged up old Queens seem to be British (and to a smaller extent European) whereas you more rarely see it put on as "entertainment" where other nationalities are in charge.

Does anyone really think that catering to Brits is enough to save Pattaya? If anybody thinks that, he's burying his head in the sand. As for other nationalities, you don't see their form of entertainment in Pattaya simply because nobody's catering to them. They do have things they enjoy, though if we keep seeing things through Brit lenses, then of course, we don't see whatever it is they enjoy as "entertainment" because the Brit idea of entertainment is so narrow and weird. There's a huge gay entertainment scene in Beijing, Shanghai, Tokyo, Taipei, Singapore - what do they look and sound like? Does any business owner even know?

In any case, debating the semantics is not going to get these bars, hotels, cafes, etc into profit. The fundamental questions that few seem to be asking are these: How should we reinvent ourselves so that large numbers of gay tourists from the new middle classes of China, Korea, India, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia (and soon Indonesia) will flock to Pattaya? What kinds of entertainment will interest them? What level of pricing is appropriate for them? And (very important) what expectations of service quality will these customers have and how do we meet them?

Just for starters, how many bars or hotels have Chinese-speaking, Korean-speaking guest relations officers? How many hotels serving the gay market cater a Chinese, Japanese or Korean breakfast? Where are the bars that play East Asian pop music? Indian pop music? Where are the menus in these languages? Where are the Chinese/Korean/Japanese/Indonesian translations of these businesses' websites?

Marsilius is right when he said many farang owners are not real businessmen; the businesses they have are retirement hobbies. Thai businessmen ... who knows what's on their mind? (Though if you look at how they rapidly catered to the Russians, now that's an example of reinvention.) The question I was addressing is: Will the glory days of Boyztown etc come back? The answer is a very definitive no. Not unless the businesses reinvent themselves. What we are witnessing is a genteel decline into the pages of history.

It may not even be genteel. Not when the red ink turns into gushers.

******

It may well be that this generation of business owners are so Brit- or Euro-centric that the very idea of a gay scene that is primarily Asian-on-Asian has no appeal whatsoever. They are not interested in this kind of future, even if it is attainable. They would rather let gay Pattaya die than seize these opportunities. If so, then one more reason why it's the end, folks. It's the end.

[ceejay]

because the Brit idea of entertainment is so narrow and weird.
Ahem - don't tar us all with the same brush please. I'm a Brit, and I wouldn't travel a quarter way across the road to see a 70-year old drag act, let alone a quarter way round the world.

because the Brit idea of entertainment is so narrow and weird.
Ahem - don't tar us all with the same brush please. I'm a Brit, and I wouldn't travel a quarter way across the road to see a 70-year old drag act, let alone a quarter way round the world.

so..... which is typical then?

Is it you - or those who seem to like that sort of thing ? The more grotesque the drag is the better they seem to like it, and (in gay circles certainly) the more foul-mouthed and insulting the performer can be to the audience, the more they seem to lap it up!

Also, the British are almost unique in carrying on the Pantomime tradition - playing in packed-out theatres in every town and city in the UK from November through to mid-January every year - and we all know who the star of any pantomime is, a guy in drag!

So I don't think this form of "entertainment" will be ending anytime soon, no matter how desirable you or I may feel that would be.

:occasion9:

Although I do not go to Pattaya as often as I would like. I think that any upgrades in the 'Main St' can only be to the betterment of the owners and visitors etc alike.

I will look forward to going to Boyztown and see all these revamps. There is nothing more constant than change in life and if Le Cafe, Copa, Amor, Boyz, plus etc, decide go this way, then it only can be fruitful for everyone and future visitors (Poofs) to Thailand.

We all need a good rebore at times :bounce:

[markie1]

Interesting reading, to me its time to wake up boyz town ,LCR a couple years ago was a nice place to end up ,it use to be packed every night ,people leaving panarama ,boyz boyz boyz and every one having fun in LCR,lasy t year i went in there a few times and how times have changed ,no customers no atmosphere, boring staff,if they smiled ,that could be something. they dont take care of customers. it was completely a wash.
Hope they dont increase there prices any more with the refurbishment,otherwise they will not get the trade , it could be vrought back to standars with the right staff ,entetainment and reasonable drinks prices and edible food, lets see. i will be over in October to check it out









We all need a good rebore at times :bounce:

Interesting reading, to me its time to wake up boyz town ,LCR a couple years ago was a nice place to end up ,it use to be packed every night ,people leaving panarama ,boyz boyz boyz and every one having fun in LCR,lasy t year i went in there a few times and how times have changed ,no customers no atmosphere, boring staff,if they smiled ,that could be something. they dont take care of customers. it was completely a wash.
Hope they dont increase there prices any more with the refurbishment,otherwise they will not get the trade , it could be vrought back to standars with the right staff ,entetainment and reasonable drinks prices and edible food, lets see. i will be over in October to check it out


Sorry to say but the late night scene in Boyztown has evolved and moved on. After 1.30am don't bother.
The guys who used to hang out at BBB and later at LCR now go to NAB or Dave Man Club.
The young guys that used to frequent LCR to pick up the drunk left-over farangs now have gay Romeo accounts.
Late night Boyztown has had its day and it will take a lot more than a bar refurbishment to get guys to return to the area.

[colmx]

Curiously i'm finding myself agreeing with SilomRimmer and homesoon...
Maya, X-ray, Dude, X-ray2, Dave, NAB and each of their incarnations etc have basically eneded the Boystown Post 1PM party...

And lets face it for those that can put up with the music... its a lot better than listening to Toi or Noom doing DJ....
The best thing is that the boys actually enjoy going there
(even though some of teh spoilers will issist theat the boys pretend to be happy to inpress their farang customer(s)!)

For those that dont think they can handle the LOUD music... NAB has plenty of VIP areas where the music is at a more reasonable level...