Reports of Bangkok crackdown

[Beachlover]

Best stay off the streets.

There are reports of a dawn crackdown involving troops, APCs and helicopters dropping tear gas.

Appears to be multiple APCs and many troops forming outside the Dusit Thani Hotel on the Silom/RamaIV intersection.

You can follow it here:

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Bangkok_protests

http://twitter.com/RichardBarrow

Live CNN USA 5000 protesters

thai troops moving

arnmored personal carrieres ''

hundreds of troops

6:44 am bkk

[Beachlover]

It's 6:45am in Bangkok...

- Reports of officials on loudspeakers warning, "Please leave the site immediately. Officials are about to conduct an operation."

- Red shirt leaders are up and calling on protesters to stand their ground.

Damn... really looks like something very bad's about to happen. I thought they had gotten closer to a peaceful resolution yesterday.

Surprised they're moving in so quickly now, but I guess the deadline was on Monday, and the government really only has 3 days to get the mess cleaned up (public holiday declared until Friday) so they need to start now.

[Beachlover]

Looks like the real thing. But still possible it's just a show of force to "push" negotiations along.

[Beachlover]

Armoured vehicle rolling towards Sala Daeng:

http://tweetphoto.com/22990012

[Beachlover]

Bangkok Dangerous map is being updated with the latest. Army push seems to be coming from Rama IV. APCs seen firing into Lumpini Park from an overpass to clear protesters.

http://maps.google.co.th/maps/ms?hl=en& ... 38581&z=15 (http://maps.google.co.th/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=116480606892254086046.0004817fafbb87b0951c0&ll=13.724877,100.543871&spn=0.028724,0.038581&z=15)

It I thought they had gotten closer to a peaceful resolution yesterday.

duhh, one red shirt leader was FOR backing off now, one was not

[Beachlover]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_p ... 124369.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia_pacific/10124369.stm)

Thai army masses at Bangkok protest site

A Thai protest leader has told supporters to be ready to fight as troops and armoured vehicles gathered near their camp in central Bangkok.

"We're asking everybody to be ready for a crackdown," anti-government red-shirt leader Nattawut Saikua told Reuters.

Witnesses said the troops were massing near the fortified encampment of anti-government protesters and gunfire was heard at dawn.

Thailand's government earlier rejected their offer of mediated talks.

The military made loudspeaker announcements on Wednesday morning, according to local media: "Please leave the site immediately. Officials are about to conduct an operation."

Five days of street clashes between troops and protesters in Bangkok have left 37 people dead and scores injured.

Red-shirt leaders had earlier accepted the offer of fresh talks to be overseen by senior Senate figures.

But the government said the red-shirts had to leave their Bangkok camp before any talks could take place.

The two sides have been trading increasingly bitter accusations in recent days.

The government accuses hard-liners within the red camp of using women and children as shields. At a news conference on Tuesday the military showed footage of what it said was a protester holding a baby over a barricade.

The red-shirts, meanwhile, accuse government troops of firing indiscriminately on them, although the army said troops were firing live rounds only in self-defence.

Late on Monday, the United Nations called on the protesters to "step back from the brink" and urged the government troops to exercise restraint.

Sporadic violence

On Tuesday, sporadic outbreaks of violence continued, but the BBC's South East Asia correspondent, Rachel Harvey, said that confrontations between troops and demonstrators appeared to be less intense than they once were.

But several thousand protesters remained inside the barricaded camp in the centre of Bangkok in continued defiance of government demands to leave.

Schools and government offices remained closed, and underground and elevated train services were suspended.

The government has extended the public holiday until Friday to allow more time to resolve the crisis - which has seen gunfire and explosions at a number of sites around the protest camp.

The red-shirts have been protesting in Bangkok since 14 March. They are currently occupying the shopping district, forcing hotels and shops to close and affecting the city's economy.

The protesters are a loose coalition of left-wing activists, democracy campaigners and mainly rural supporters of ousted leader Thaksin Shinawatra, who has lived overseas since he was convicted of conflict of interest.

They are demanding fresh polls because they say the government - which came to power through a parliamentary deal rather than an election - is illegitimate.

Are you in Thailand? What is your reaction to what is happening in the capital right now? What is the best way out of the conflict? Send us your views using the form below.

[Beachlover]

It I thought they had gotten closer to a peaceful resolution yesterday.

duhh, one red shirt leader was FOR backing off now, one was not

Yep... no strong leadership.

There are still heaps of women and kids in that camp. If the army goes in aggressively it'll be a huge mess.

Still possible it's just a show of force though...

CNN: looks like the gov IS cracking down.

running thru l\umpini park

black shirts on motorcycles

APC moving in

Thai gov REJECTED pleas to negotiate ...

people running on Sarasin

[fedssocr]

well, the gov't said it would negotiate if the protesters would end their rally. That doesn't seem any less reasonable than all of the red shirts' ever-changing demands.

[Beachlover]

Got to wonder how they're going to pull it off. 3,000 is a huge number of people to move by force.

They can hold the push... maybe just tighten the noose. But looks like they're really moving in.

well, the gov't said it would negotiate if the protesters would end their rally.

The govt offered early elections twice.

T.V.


"new smoke clouds over dindaeng" http://yfrog.com/041tyj /via @vaitor

"explosions at dindaeng." /via @vaitor

"Volley from 2 APCs on flyover cleared the park; Ppl inching back. Chopper overhead. redshirts firing fire crackers back" /via @photo_Journ

TNN: Shows pictures of barricades burning

TAN: No military presence at Klong Toey mobile stage

Reuters: Thai army calls on protesters to leave protest site immediately over loud speakers

(06:17) Park swarming with soldiers and APCs. Gunfire behind us on Rama 4. /via @kennethtoddruiz

"Protesters use tires to close off road in front of Channel 5" /via @js100radio

"Huge explosion heard at Khlong Toei!!!!!!! Choppers overhead!!!" /via @freakingcat

ThaiPBS: Looks like army crackdown starting in Rama IV. Watch live on Thai TV on the Internet - http://bit.ly/8ZND3U /via @RichardBarrow

"Phloenchit BTS station" http://twitpic.com/1ozpyw /via @newley

"Armoured vehicles on the move in Bangkok" http://bit.ly/9kOpw5 /via @Newmandala

(06:00) "Thai TV is reporting that soldiers and heavy armored vehicles have moved down Silom and are waiting at Silom Soi 4" /via @2Bangkok

AFP: 100's of Thai police and troops, backed by armored vehicles, converged on the Red Shirt protesters' camp in Bangkok Wednesday

Watch out for the IEDs.

Thaksin's influence in the ongoing secret talks between the government and the red shirts was confirmed by another source from the opposition Pheu Thai Party.
The source, who is close to the ex-premier, said that certain Pheu Thai leaders and Thaksin's close relatives were also involved in the secret talks. In addition to other conditions, such as the date for a new election, Thaksin also made his personal demands.
"Up till now, there have been no positive responses to the demands. These include a return of part of assets from the asset-seizure case and a return of Thaksin's passports," said the Pheu Thai source.
The source also said that Thaksin has a "trump card" in hand that he would use if the talks fail.
"The real strategists [Thaksin's allies from the military] will play an underground game by staging sabotage acts in different areas throughout the city and other major provinces in order to pressure the government to accept Thaksin's conditions," the source said.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/20 ... 29689.html (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/05/19/politics/Peace-hopes-fading-30129689.html)

[Beachlover]

Sounds like women and children are seeking shelter at the Pathum Wanaram Temple safe haven, which is positive.

Government gave a 15-min deadline to clear out but didn't do anything when the deadline passed... they could be waiting for women/children to get out of the way before they move in.

They're using water canons to clear barricades... possible way to avoid IEDs.

URGENT: Soldiers Move in with Tanks into Sala Deang since 5 A.M.; First Round of Shots Heard at 6 A.M.

CRES starts operations to disperse rally at Ratchprasong intersection by moving in with tanks and water trucks. Tanks started moving into Silom area at around 5 A.M. this morning, before moving forward into Sala Deang.

High pressure water hoses used to destroy protesters' bunkers on the edge of Lumpini Park.

[Beachlover]

Troops firing into the air continuously to intimidate protesters. How long can they keep this up before they move forward?

Troops firing into the air continuously to intimidate protesters. How long can they keep this up before they move forward?

Hmm, since Thursday and Friday are already declared holidays ....

u can get live video from TNN at http://www.tnnthailand.com/live/live_high.html but the commentary is in Thai

or mms://broadcast.manager.co.th/toc for Thai Asean News channel in English

[Beachlover]

u can get live video from TNN at http://www.tnnthailand.com/live/live_high.html but the commentary is in Thai

or mms://broadcast.manager.co.th/toc for Thai Asean News channel in English

Yes... you can watch here: http://truemusic.truelife.com/home/play ... za/?guid=7 (http://truemusic.truelife.com/home/player/theme_tv/siamza/?guid=7) .... the reporter is handsome lol.

Troops push protesters back from Saladaeng Intersection

At about 7 am Wednesday, troops managed to force protesters to retreat from Saladaeng Intersection to Salasin Intersection, Thai PBS reported.

Troops arrived on Silom Road in seven armoured vehicles and many military trucks at 3:30 am.

Some armoured vehicles were deployed to the Saladaeng Intersection at 5:50 am.

Troops starting firing into the air to push back protesters at about 7 am.

Troops used armoured vehicles as shields while advancing towards the protesters.

[Beachlover]

Troops firing into the air continuously to intimidate protesters. How long can they keep this up before they move forward?

Hmm, since Thursday and Friday are already declared holidays ....

Yes, starting 3 days early gives them plenty of space to move the operation at a pace that suits them... instead of rushing to a deadline.

Also, it will take a fair while to clean up the mess once the protesters are dispersed.

I wonder what the plan is... have they got buses waiting at the other end of the protest site?

[Beachlover]

Sounds like they are moving forward and progressing... if they've cleared protesters from Sala Daeng.

Maybe they'll push up to a certain point (to tighten the noose), then stop give the protesters one last chance to leave themselves. Seeing so tanks and troops with live rounds ready to roll over them may convince many to leave.

.

I wonder what the plan is...

Given it took so long to ban tyre sales ...

[Beachlover]

Thai Senator says:

- "Decisive action is being taken"

- "Last minute peace talks have failed"

[Beachlover]

Sounds like they're spraying water canons at barricades to clear them. Could be a good way to prevent them being ignited (they are soaked with fuel)... especially if they can spray foam as well.

7:55 am

Huge smoke cloud from Silom

Chula being evacuated

[Beachlover]

Troops have retaken Lumpini Park... breaking down the red shirt barriers one by one.... armoured vehicles have broken through the main barrier at the RamaIV Silom intersection...

Reports that two people have been shot.

Massive smoke cloud over Bangkok: http://tweetphoto.com/23003989

Major fire next to Chula Hospital underneath Skytrain overpass... water canons trying to put it out.

8:16am: Reuters reporters see army armoured vehicles breach the main car tyre defence barrier of the red shirts at the Dusit Thai-Lumpini intersection.

I'd say it is still uncertain that they are pushed back past Saracin.

[Beachlover]

All this has happened pretty quickly... I wonder what will happen if/when the reds rally and start resisting.

BBC reports a government advisor stated the government is still prepared to negotiate if the reds call off the protest immediately. I suppose there's still hope... but it would also depend on whether red leaders can organise all of their mob to stop protesting.

Armoured vehicles breaking through barrier outside Dusit Thani Hotel: http://tweetphoto.com/23005059

[Beachlover]

Words from a Thai politician:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/thaksin ... wn-on-reds (http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/thaksin-judgement-update/178390/gen-lertrat-govt-to-crackdown-on-reds)

Gen Lertrat: Govt to crackdown on reds

The reinforcement of armoured vehicles and troops in Silom and Saladaeng areas early this morning showed that the government will today use force to crackdown on red-shirt protesters at Ratchaprasong intersection, Gen Lertrat Rattanavanich, an appointed senator, said on Wednesday.

тАЬIt is likely that the government wants to rapidly end red-shirts rally, probably within today. There will be no peace talk as the government chooses to use force rather than political mechanismтАЭ, Gen Lertrat said.

The senator could not imagine what the 5,000 red-shirts at the rally site would be when the crackdown starts.

He projected more than 100 reds would be killed and more than one thousand would be injured.

Gen Lertrat also doubted whether the government could keep the situation under control as the red-shirts had vowed to fight until the last minute.

[Beachlover]

Respected blogger, Richard Barrow made a risky visit to the Red Shirt camp last night.

Shows children sleeping at the camp only a couple of hours ago: http://tweetphoto.com/23006683

Follow here: http://twitter.com/RichardBarrow

I wonder if the red shirt leaders would be able to stop the rioters now even if they wanted to.

Pics of APC's breaking through Reds barricade Sala Daeng http://tweetphoto.com/23008353 http://tweetphoto.com/23008489
1 minute ago via TweetDeck

APCs break through Red Shirt tyre bunkers at Saladaeng, don't advance into Lumpini Park; awaiting bomb clearance operation /MCOT
4 minutes ago

again a report ...

Soldiers Reclaim Sala Deang Intersection

Soldiers have been able to reclaim the Sala Deang intersection after using armored personnel carriers to clear bunkers erected by protesters. Red shirts have been reported to have fled the scene once their bunker was destroyed. As for Lumpini Park, officials are now clearing the area after two bombs were found inside.

UPDATE: Protesters now pushed back to Sarasin intersection. Shots fired from protesters' side.

[Beachlover]

------------------------------------------------
Main protest site appears reasonably calm: http://www.uddthailand.com/

Just crazy... There's armoured vehicles breaking through barriers and troops firing tear gas and live rounds about 1.5kms-2kms down the road at the Southern border of their encampment... This guy looks like he's giving his final speech.

They know it's all over..

------------------------------------------------
Reuters:

"We are still ready to talk. My line is open but the protest has to end first," government advisor Korbask Sabhavasau told Channel 3 television.

------------------------------------------------
Reuters:

More news on the two people who were shot. Reuters witness said one was shot in the chest while trying to help a fellow protester. The demonstrators responded by firing at soldiers.

------------------------------------------------

Apparently the big fire outside Chula Hospital is under control. Armoured vehicles escorted firefighting vehicles in to fight it. Troops don't seem to be crossing the barrier yet.

-----------------------------------------------

Decisive image... armoured vehicle breaking down red shirt barrier: http://tweetphoto.com/23008489

---------------------------------------------

Thai people saying "Action is long overdue":

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8688037.stm

Scenes marching along skytrain tracks from Saladaeng.
http://tweetphoto.com/23011023

An advisor to Thailand's PM called on 'red shirt' protesters to surrender on Wednesday as troops broke through the barricade

At least 2 helicopters circling above MRT Khlong Toei, ready to drop teargas..

[Beachlover]

Yeah, respected blogger Richard Barrow saw troops carrying equipment up onto the Skytrain tracks on his way to the red shirt camp last night. But the troops wouldn't let him go up to see what they were doing.

[Beachlover]

Report of first fatality:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/thaksin ... tersection (http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/thaksin-judgement-update/178399/red-shot-dead-at-sarasin-intersection)

Red shot dead at Sarasin intersection

Published: 19/05/2010 at 09:23 AM
Online news: Breakingnews

One red-shirt protester was shot dead at Sarasin intersection on Wednesday morning, reports said.

Wattanachai Aiumnak was shot in the chest and died at the scene. His body was now being kept at the Police General hospital.

One red-shirt told reporters that he believed Wattanachai was shot by a sniper hiding somewhere near Lumpini Park, not by soldiers stationing at the Saladaeng intersection.

Pol Lt Gen Jongjate Aaojenpong, senior medical doctor at the Police General Hospital, said in a television interview that four injured red-shirt protesters were admitted to the hospital.

"Two of them were shot in the chest and stomach and now receiving a surgery" he said.

[Beachlover]

What are these soldiers (they look like professionals) pushing along the skytrain tracks?

http://www.daylife.com/photo/00h9aMYdn07w9?q=bangkok

[Beachlover]

Thai government has announced this operation is about containment and isolation... they are not moving in to break up the main rally site.

What are these soldiers (they look like professionals) pushing along the skytrain tracks?


I think we used to call it a cow catcher (lloks like).

9:40am: Thai govt says military operation in Bangkok aims to tighten army cordon around anti-government protestors

If they just cleared them out of Saladaeng/Rama 4/Sathon/Sarasin today I'd be very happy.

CNN just playing same fooitage (smoke) over and over.

[Beachlover]

Well, everyone is impatient, but now there's a chance for a mutual resolution. The government also have an even stronger upper hand now they've tightened the noose severely.

If they went in a cleaned it out right now it would be unbelievably messy...many deaths... could cause massive unrest from red shirts all over the country... and increase the probability for long-term civil unrest, which is much less controllable than a protest like this.

[Beachlover]

What are these soldiers (they look like professionals) pushing along the skytrain tracks?


I think we used to call it a cow catcher (lloks like)..

It looks like a trolley carrying an upturned table with only three legs and some other clutter. Got to wonder what it's for.

[Beachlover]

Al Jazeera reporter says the cordon is very loose and it's still easy to get in and out of the encampment.

He believes it's possible the idea is for troops to push from the South and for people to exit at the North. This might be a very Thai way to end it... saying, "we're doing this, we need to finish it, but we're going to do it slowly, so if you want to leave, now is the time".

Gradually, throughout the day, they may get all but the most hard line protesters to leave on their own accord... so it disperses gradually, rather than with a big bang... sort of face saving in a way.

But all this is still speculation.

Looks like the troops and tanks have paused for the moment.

[Beachlover]

Al Jazeera reporting live:

An APC has just gone through the red shirt barricade on Rama IV for the first time. Dozens of troops are crouching and looking like they're getting ready to enter.

A soldier just stuck his head out of the nearest APC and asked the reporter to move aside... "excuse the camera movement as we move out of the way"

-----------

Update: Troops are now filing past the red shirt barrier and disappearing into the red shirt encampment.

"We'll just have to move the camera again because this APC looks like it's coming straight for us".

[Beachlover]

Troops are now less than 500 metres from the red shirt main stage.

Al Jazeera reports:

- There are reports one of the bodies being carried out is a fully-dressed black shirt

- Reports soldiers are being shot at by the protesters

BBC reports:

- Live rounds going in both directions

- Armoured vehicles now moving North from the Southern boundary... it appears the idea is to push towards the main encampment.

- Troops appear to be sniping at the protesters ahead of them

- Large numbers of troops entering the encampment

I'm sure the Army has this all planned but part of the plan is probably to play it by ear... see how far they can get without major casualties.

There's reports the number of protesters has decreased significantly so if there's not too many protesters left (e.g. less than 500-1,000) there's a good chance they could clear it all out today.

[Beachlover]

On the UDD stage the leaders look like they are getting jumpy: http://www.uddthailand.com/

- There are now multiple people on stage

- Red leaders are reported to be saying, "kill us first... don't kill the people"

[Beachlover]

On the UDD stage: http://www.uddthailand.com/

It looks like there's only one red shirt leader on stage now.

They're playing some slow, sad, patriotic song. The people in the crowd are just waiting... some of them are trying rouse others to stand up and cheer.

Very sad scenes... looks like this may be the end of an epic protest for now.

Al Jazeera reporting unconfirmed reports many protesters have fled... and many who were trying to convince protesters to stay have disappeared.

20 armed men in black captured by soldiers, Arisman believed fleeing
Red-shirt leaders at Rajprasong were seen holding a closed-door meeting in the face of advancing security forces. One of the hardcore leaders, Arisman Pongruangrong, has reportedly been trying to flee the rally site. The security forces have been alerted to arrest him as his escape route might be via Pratunam
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/20-armed-men-in-black-captured-by-soldiers-Arisman-30129752.html

Jatuporn and Arisman Have Fled after Soldiers Reclaim Ratchaprasong
ASTV and several other media are reporting that key red-shirt core leaders including Jatuporn Promphan, Arisman Pongruengrong and Suporn Attawong have fled the Ratchaprasong protest site after soldiers were able to reclaim the Sarasin intersection.
http://www.tannetwork.tv/tan/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1029483

[Beachlover]

You can see the progress of the troops here: http://maps.google.co.th/maps/ms?ie=UTF ... 38581&z=15 (http://maps.google.co.th/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=116480606892254086046.0004817fafbb87b0951c0&ll=13.730839,100.538378&spn=0.028724,0.038581&z=15)

CNN reports:

- Troops have stopped about 1km short of the stage.

- They have a clear line to the stage now but it appears they're being quite methodical.

Sounds like the Al Jazeera reporter was right... their intention is the made a gradually-paced push North and allow the protesters to gradually flee on their own accord... a well thought approach.

the government spokesman was just on all TV channels, saying that the operation to secure the area around Lumpini had been successful, and that the leaders had fled

[Beachlover]

What are these soldiers (they look like professionals) pushing along the skytrain tracks?


I think we used to call it a cow catcher (lloks like)..

Looking at images on Al Jazeera... it could be some sort of loudspeaker system they are pushing along. Whatever it is... it looks like they're using the skytrain tracks as a way to get equipment closer to the main stage. Hope it's nothing sinister.

[Beachlover]

Government's announced there are buses waiting for protesters at National Stadium

BBC reports one foreign journalist, an Italian was killed at Sala Daeng... there were heaps of journalists and cameramen reporting from there amongst the APCs right at the start of the push.

[Beachlover]

If they just cleared them out of Saladaeng/Rama 4/Sathon/Sarasin today I'd be very happy.

This may well be possible. Looks like the operation has been extraordinarily successful so far. But troops are still 500-1,000 metres from the main stage and apparently there are piles of tires the protesters are ready to set alight if the soldiers approach.

[lonelywombat]

The Age has just posted an up to date report and video on their webpage
http://www.theage.com.au/world/three-fo ... utostart=1 (http://www.theage.com.au/world/three-foreign-journalists-shot-in-bangkok-20100519-vd1s.html?autostart=1)

[Beachlover]

Latest from various sources:

- 3 foreign journalist were shot during the push... one (an Italian photographer) is apparently dead... but this is not fully confirmed.

- Some protesters have been killed and injured during the push

- Troops are still holding 500-1,000 metres from the main stage.

- Government estimates there are still 500 protesters at the main site

- Protesters appear to be in a better mood... up and dancing at the UDD stage - http://www.uddthailand.com/ - TIT... it's almost like a Tony Robbins seminar.

- Jatuporn will be the first red leader to surrender.... apparently he will be reporting to officials soon.

- Respected blogger, Richard Barrow says everyone should stay off the streets... it's definitely not over yet... as the Army strangles the main protest site, othe red shirts around the city may get very rowdy and violent.

Looks like the government is being quite smart... they're pushing forward, then pausing to allow protesters to disperse themselves before pushing again.

[Beachlover]

Perhaps they've let it sit too long now...

Red shirt leaders quoted below really do sound like they want to get what they want or ruin the country.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... ate-unrest (http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/178426/udd-urges-protesters-to-create-unrest)

UDD urges protesters to create unrest
Published: 19/05/2010 at 12:09 PM
Online news: Breakingnews

Remaining leaders of the anti-government United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) on Wednesday called on their supporters in different provinces to jointly create unrest to counter the government for ordering soldiers to shoot at the people.

"If there is no ceasefire, our supporters in other provinces will begin their movements. Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva can run the country that is in ruins if he wants," the UDD leaders announced on the main stage at the seven-week rally at Bangkok's Ratchaprasong commercial area.

Meanwhile, the red-shirt leaders took turns giving speeches and played songs to uplift the crowd, as the government's plan to disperse the demonstration started on Wednesday morning.

UDD secretary-general Natthawut Saikua, opposition Puea Thai Party MP Jatuporn Prompan and We Love Udon leader Kwanchai Praipana were still at the rally site.

Other core members such as Arisman Pongruengrong had reportedly fled Ratchaprasong.

[Beachlover]

Richard Barrow says government has taken over the Town Hall at Udon Thani: http://twitter.com/RichardBarrow

[Beachlover]

It's all over

... for the time being

From Reuters:

1:36pm:
Jatuporn Prompan, a senior 'red shirt' leader told supporters from the stage in the protest camp: "I apologise to you all but I don't want any more losses. I am devastated too. We will surrender."

1:42pm:
Thai NBT channel showing 'red shirt' leader Jatuporn Prompan, surrendering to the police.

1:44pm:
Another 'red shirt' leader Nattawut also on Live TV in police custody

1:45:
All in all, four protest leaders are now in police custody

1:48pm:
Senior protest leader Nattawut urges all supporters to go home and end protest - on TV


But... There are reports of big fires, riots, gun shots and explosions in other parts of Bangkok so the Army certainly has more work to do.

[Beachlover]

Al Jazeera's Wayne Hay was at the Rama IV intersection doing a live broadcast.

10 minutes into this the APCs and troops formed up next to him and made their first move through the barricades into the red encampment.

Amazing footage... watch it from 10 mins 20 secs onwards:

[youtube:39m0qq88]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXikF0n3UMo[/youtube:39m0qq88]

just heard explosions at On Nut, heard from a freind there was a bomb in Tesco Lotus.

Mobs burn Bangkok
Published: 19/05/2010 at 03:57 PM
Online news: Breakingnews

Arsonists rampaged in downtown Bangkok on Wednesday afternoon, setting fire to buildings and shopping centres, after the core leaders of the United front for democracy against Dictatorship surrendered and announced an end to the protest rally at Ratchaprasong intersection.
Fires were reported at Central World department store in Ratchaprasong, Siam Theatre at Siam Square, the Paragon shopping centre and branches of commercial banks nearby.
Fighting between troops and protesters, and explosions, were reported throughout the area.
At the Sala Daeng intersection on Rama IV Road, rampaging protesters destroyed telephone booths, advertising signs, traffic signs and other public property.
The Bangkok Post building in nearby Klong Toey was evacuated shortly before 3pm as a mob advanced from the Rama IV intersection to Five Ways and down the narrow Na Ranong road leading to the Post building about 200 metres away.
The Post building also houses the Bangkok Post's sister newspaper, the Thai-language Post Today.
TV Channel 3, which is based nearby on Rama IV Road in the Maleenont Building was also off the air.
Reports quoted staff at the TV station saying their building had been attacked by red-shirt protesters.
One staffer said cars parked outside the building were set on fire and protesters then entered the Channel 3 building.
The 6th floor of Maleenont Building and the Klong Toey office of the Bangkok Metropolitan Electricity Authority were also reported tobe on fire.
Red-shirts also set fires at the Stock Exchange of Thailand building, reports said.
Red-shirt mobs also set fire to the provincial halls in Khon Kaen and Udon Thani, in the Northeast of the country, reports said.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/178441/bangkok-is-burning

4:57pm: Nation Online report quotes the Civil Disaster Prevention Office as saying that red shirt protesters have set fire to at least 15 sites in Bangkok.

TV Stations report workers trapped.

Journalists targetted.

Curfew set at 8:00 pm.

The Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) has announced curfew in Bangkok and nearby cities and provinces in the North and Northeast earlier placed under emergency law.

People in areas under curfew are not allowed to leave their homes from 8pm to 6am, with immediate effect.

State authorities are allowed to perform their duties in the restricted areas to restore peace and order.

The curfew order was signed by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva late this afternoon.

source: Agencies

what was that line about being peaceful protesters again?

[Beachlover]

BBC reports Khon Kaen Town Hall is ablaze, set alight by red shirts.

Udon Thani town hall has also been set ablaze (don't know what the latest is).

[Beachlover]

what was that line about being peaceful protesters again?

More like pissed off protesters.

more like pissed off terrorists....and who is directing, them since most of the red shirt leaders have now surrendered? no prizes for guessing the obvious culprit

[Beachlover]

Channel 3 headquarters were set alight by red shirt protesters with about 100 staff trapped inside crying for help.

Helicopter arrives to evacuate staff from the rooftop: http://twitpic.com/1p3lyy

[Beachlover]

more like pissed off terrorists....and who is directing, them since most of the red shirt leaders have now surrendered? no prizes for guessing the obvious culprit

I'm guessing it's 6 weeks (I forget how long this has been going for) of brain washing and lots of pent up anger. Really, no one external is able to direct them together now. It's just a big f*cking mess. Mobs are going about doing what they want.

The army did an amazing job clearing out the protest site with just 300 troops and APCs. Only 5 fatalities reported in this full frontal attack compared to 37 fatalities from the previous "containment" operation involving thousands of troops.

But maybe they weren't prepared for the aftermath. With all the protesters on the streets now, I wonder if these were all loose and outside the main protest site, or if some of these are those who came out of the protest site.

They could have made the encampment protesters get on buses to leave Bangkok altogether after the troops went in. And to ensure the outside protesters don't cause damage they should have put a heavy troop presence on the streets and had mobile quick response forces to respond to spontaneous riots and such.

The damage they are causing is unbelievable... burning buildings still with people inside and all. The army is going to need to regain control and I think the fatalities from this may even exceed the containment operation and the attack today combined.

[Beachlover]

Twitter reports still no firefighters at Central World Plaza... reckons the building has had it.

http://twitter.com/karmanomad

I wonder if the curfew will get things under control or if it will just be the army hosing down the mob all night. I can't imagine this many thousands of protesters (most of them from outside Bangkok) being indoors within 2.5 hrs.

I think a lot of the militant members of the red shirts had already moved out of Ratchaprasong before the army closed it down. despite what they said in public (and to their red shirted followers) they would have known that once the army moved in the red shirts wouldn't last long, and planned ahead to initiate the guerilla activites as predicted/warned/threatened by Thaksin.

Thailand's biggest dept store destroyed in riots
19 May 2010 10:42:34 GMT
Source: Reuters
BANGKOK, May 19 (Reuters) - Bangkok's Central World <CPN.BK>, Southeast Asia's second-biggest department store, was destroyed by fire during riots following a crackdown on anti-government protesters, a Reuters witness said.

The department store is operated by Central Pattana PCL <CPN.BK>.



Definitely retail and television "on the red map". I think rage at retail has been greatly underestimated. Understand, it does undermine local products at the expense of foreign products.

[Beachlover]

I really wonder what the situation will be like 3-4 days from now. Could it be worse?

It sounds like the situation may be getting or may already be dangerous for foreigners living in areas outside Bangkok now.

Now, it might get bad enough for the king to step in. But if he does step in now, who does he talk to? The red shirts have no visible, official leadership.

Maybe cdnmatt could help us here... how long does it take a mad Thai to cool down? Is 24hrs enough? Is a 24-hour "all you can damage" fest the extent of it?

Now it just doesn't look like these angry mobs will disperse unless the government really goes all out and stands down altogether. Surely the army can't contain this many protesters so spread out. It's not an organised protest anymore... just random mobs.

Toxsin has already told the foreign media that because of the way the Red Shirts have been treated some will now form guerilla bands throughout the country..
It's a pity they can't put out an International arrest warrant for this megalomanic fiend before he destroys this beautiful normally stable country.

[Beachlover]

I wonder if they're thinking it wasn't such a great decision to oust him in a military coup all those years ago.

or to let the prick out of the country

or to let the prick out of the country

They might just rue the day they didn't bump him off when they had the chance. It would have caused some unrest, but not as much as what we are seeing unfold now.....

or to let the prick out of the country

They might just rue the day they didn't bump him off when they had the chance. It would have caused some unrest, but not as much as what we are seeing unfold now.....


It's somewhat weird how much closer and real this conflict feels by reading this forum compared to what one would normally feel from watching tv.. although it did get somewhat more personal now that I saw on the news an Italian photographer was killed... I guess I should keep more updated because I thought I had heard on previous news and read on the internet that the soldiers were just using rubber bullets....

[catawampuscat]

I am very impressed with all the work and effort here to keep us informed and up to date..
great postings beachlover and all the rest of the correspondants.. :notworthy:

[Beachlover]

Canadian journalist Chandler Vandergrift lies severely injured after being hit by a grenade:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/05tsgeFfP24hV/610x.jpg

[Beachlover]

Twitterers report red shirt radio called for all out arson, saying everyone is their own leader now.

This is very very depressing to watch.

Got to wonder how popular the red shirts will be now. If you thought Bangkok residents were pissed off with them for the occupation, wait till they see what the red shirts have done to many of the city's buildings...

----------------

Some twitters from Bangkok residents mourning the damange:

RT @PR_76: Siam Theatre, a cultural spot in Bkk history - RIP. So sad to see it be destroyed.

RT @tukky_nt: Court issued arrest warrants for ten ppl including Thaksin, Adisorn, Payap on terrorism charges via NEAW_NBC

RT @kanatporn_duk: once upon a time siam theatre used to be a valuable place

RT @armvejja: Siam Theatre is like an historical monument. That's very sad.

RT @veen_NT: RIP Siam Theatre - 44 years ago the first movie screened at Siam was "Rot Tung Prachan Ban", charging only Bt7 for front-row

Siam theatre has reportedly caved in. (via INN) It used to be a place where I belonged.

Got to wonder how popular the red shirts will be now. If you thought Bangkok residents were pissed off with them for the occupation, wait till they see what the red shirts have done to many of the city's buildings.

Yes it is so sad and very depressing to hear and see all of this. City's take years to develop (especially a place like Bangkok) and only minutes to destroy, normally by mindless thugs who don't even realise what they are doing, and for what reason.

Good to hear another arrest warrant has been issued for Toxsin, not that it will ever be served.

hmmm...Central World used to be called World Trade Centre......and the other building with that name was also destroyed by a terrorist group...led by an equally unpleasant person

[Beachlover]

The protest leaders will really pay for this. I can't imagine how they can not go to jail for a long time.

Twitterers reporting that protest leaders told protesters to burn down Bangkok etc...

--------------------

@tulsathit: watched arisman and nattawut vdo clips telling protesters to burn down BKK and other provinces. This is happenning!

[Beachlover]

Nuttawut saying, "we'll make the whole country burn"

[youtube:1y0vhd0a]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uInK2nWZn08[/youtube:1y0vhd0a]

[Beachlover]

Twitter reports say between 800-1,500 women and children are still stuck in Pathumwanaram Temple (where the women/children were told to go when the fighting started) and some need medical attention.

[Beachlover]

Very strange twitter... could be just a false rumour:

@georgebkk just received text from friend who is involved in politics. Saying 2000 of Sae Dangs soldiers on way to bkk. Anyone varify pls


------------------------------------------------------

Update:

www.gaytingtong.com (http://www.gaytingtong.com) reporting that this is the word being reported on Red Shirt websites (translated from Thai). Really doesn't look good.

http://www.gaytingtong.com/viewtopic.ph ... &start=690 (http://www.gaytingtong.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6675&start=690)

I don't see that on georgebkk page ???? Twitter overcapacity messages frequent.

What I do see is that many say True is banning Facebook. Geez, if I were there (in Bkk) that might have my family in US very worried if I weren't connected right now :-(

[Beachlover]

Update from Al Jazeera:

Wayne Hay from Al Jazeera really seems to be reporting closer to the action than his competitors, BBC and CNN.

[youtube:3vn6h6ni]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVJ0dB7ILS4[/youtube:3vn6h6ni]

[Beachlover]

I don't see that on georgebkk page ???? Twitter overcapacity messages frequent.

What I do see is that many say True is banning Facebook. Geez, if I were there (in Bkk) that might have my family in US very worried if I weren't connected right now :-(

Yeah, I'm getting a lot of over capacity messages as well... just need to keep refreshing.

It's here: http://twitter.com/danco222

No point speculating... We'll see if this is true if/when it eventuates.

This chap - http://twitter.com/markmackinnon - was stuck in the temple where women/children sheltered near the protest grounds... pleading for help saying people were dying around him... http://twitpic.com/1p51ix ... they couldn't get to the hospital across the road due to a lack of ceasefire. Sounds like they managed to get everyone out in ambulances now.

[Beachlover]

Government has announced it will shoot looters and arsonists on site.

It looks like they were really caught prepared for the rioting that happened immediately after the surrender but sounds like they're working to get traction again. I hope they get it under control by morning... it's shocking/depressing what just happened. Really don't want it to get worse.

Thaksin is commenting on Al Jazeera now... warning that if the government cracks down too hard, it will turn protesters into guerrillas.

Abhisit has come on to say he is confident his government can restore peace and order to the country... sounds promising but still rocky.

[Beachlover]

Serious unrest in North-East (Udon Thani and Khon Kaen) and Chiang Mai...

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... -northeast (http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/178458/red-chaos-in-the-northeast)

Red chaos in the Northeast

Published: 19/05/2010 at 10:21 PM
Online news: Breakingnews

Anti-government protesters in the northeastern provinces of Khon Kaen and Ubon Ratchathani created unrest and destroyed public properties on Wednesday night after many leaders of the red-shirt United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) surrendered to the police earlier in the afternoon.

Reports said Bangkok Bank's Khon Kaen branch was totally obliterated by a group of demonstrators, who later travelled to Bhumjaithai Party MP Prachak Kaewklaharn's home. Clashes between the protesters and security guards erupted and at least six people were injured.

In Ubon Ratchathani, a number of protesters burned tyres and the provincial city hall. The entire building was destroyed. The protesters also clashed with authorities. Two demonstrators were shot dead and five people were wounded. The anti-government group then gathered at a community radio station led by UDD co-leader Thirapat Watcharapol.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... on-rampage (http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/178457/chiang-mai-reds-on-rampage)

Chiang Mai Reds on rampage

Published: 19/05/2010 at 10:05 PM
Online news: Breakingnews

The red shirt bikers in Chiang Mai ignored the curfew, coming out in force to set fires to car tyres in several places throughout Chiang Mai and attacked several Bangkok Bank's branches according to Thai Rath website.

Two fire trucks were set ablaze. Newin Chidchob father in law's Chiang Mai Construction Co building suffered extensive damages and was torched. However, the people in the buiding were prepared and could extinguish the fire.

The police and soldiers are now on motorcyle patrol to confront the red shirt bikers.

the government need to shut down a few more of these 'community radio stations'

[Beachlover]

Here's an inventory of damage so far... What a flipping mess:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... -buildings (http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/178453/rioters-burn-27-buildings)

Rioters burn 27 buildings
Published: 19/05/2010 at 08:44 PM
Online news: Breakingnews

Rioters have set fire to 27 buildings around Bangkok during the day, the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration announced at 9pm on Wednesday.

Some of the buildings are:

1. The area on Rama I Road around Paragon shopping mall and Siam Square. Siam Theatre was completely gutted.

2. Parts of Centara Grand Hotel at Ratchaprasong

3. Parts of the Stock Exchange of Thailand building on Witthayu Road

4. Mahathun building on Ploenchit Road

5. Bangkok Bank and Krung Thai Bank Asok branches

6. Parts of the Office of the Narcotics Control Board and a nearby 7-Eleven convenience store in Din Daeng area

7. Bangkok Bank and Government Savings Bank Din Daeng branches

8. Maleenont Building on Rana IV Road which houses Channel 3 television station

9. Bangkok Bank's Rama IV branch and Tesco Lotus superstore on Rama IV Road

10. The Metropolitan Electricity Authority in Klong Toey

11. Central World shopping mall

12. Bangkok Bank's Victory Monument branch

13. Century Park hotel in Din Daeng area

14. Center One shopping mall around Victory Monument

[Diec]

I don't know if this has been posted before (Beachbore posts so much it even takes too much time to scroll past them) but it's an excellent site by author Christopher Moore to get first hand information along with pictures on whats happening in Bangkok.

http://www.cgmoore.com/blog/index.asp

[jinks]

One hour ago.

[youtube:2ldn7jx6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUwc5Kj7TRU[/youtube:2ldn7jx6]

[Beachlover]

Sounds like people did die in the temple and the death toll has risen:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... rally-site (http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/178463/bodies-found-inside-temple-near-rally-site)

9 bodies found inside temple
Published: 20/05/2010 at 12:22 AM
Online news: Breakingnews

Nine bodies were found on the grounds of Pathumwanaram temple, which is situated next to the burning CentralWorld shopping complex, on Wednesday, Dr Piyalarp Wasuwat of King Mongkut Hospital said late Wednesday night.

The bodies would not be removed until Thursday because clashes continued on the Ratchaprasong area, he said.

Dr Piyalarp said seven people were wounded at the temple. Five of them volunteered to leave the temple ground to receive medical treatment outside while the remaining continued to stay there.

[Beachlover]

Article from a business owner in Bangkok, obviously more focused on the immediate distress this is causing:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... about-this (http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/178473/what-would-your-government-do-about-this)

What would your government do about this?

Published: 20/05/2010 at 03:51 AM
Newspaper section: News

This is going to be a long note, but I want my overseas friends to understand what has been happening here in Thailand.

I would like to present a case against the international mediaтАЩs reporting on the situation in Thailand, particularly Bangkok.

Most of you will likely will be seeing only scenes of soldiers shooting or injured people being carried away on international TV channels for 30 seconds, but never get to know the background.


What if these protesters were in New York, Singapore, Tokyo or London?

The truth is, the Thai government has been too accommodating by withholding the use of force since the rally started two months ago (with the exception of the April 10 event, when the soldiers were ordered to move in without live ammunition and subsequently got slaughtered by unknown gunmen shooting from among the red shirt protesters).

The majority of us support the government in dealing with the terrorists hidden amongst the protesters. It held talks with the rally leaders and offered peace solutions to them 10 days ago.

The prime minister publicly urged the protesters to disperse for fear of violence created by the terrorists. But the plan wasnтАЩt accepted.

So, it came time to block food and water supplies from entering the centre of the protest.

If the demonstrators were peaceful, they wouldnтАЩt rush out to throw rocks, firecrackers and even bombs at the soldiersтАЩ barricades тАФ thus causing the soldiers to defend themselves by firing rubber bullets and live rounds.

It has been very frustrating for the law abiding citizens of Bangkok тАФ we even voiced our dissatisfaction at the government for its failure to uphold the laws.

The situation was like Bangkok was being held for ransom. A lot of businesses got affected because itтАЩs happening right in the middle of the major commercial area.

Again, think what your government would do if there were a large group of protesters blocking all traffic at Orchard Road in Singapore; Times Square in New York City; Ginza in Tokyo; or Knightsbridge in London. For two months.

They set up barricades to search through personal belongings of everyone travelling through the area.

Also think what your government would do if those protesters invaded a nearby hospital, causing doctors and nurses to evacuate patients тАФ some of whom were newborn babies in incubators and those in ICUтАФto other hospitals.

And most important of all, think what would your government do if the protesters were found to have a large stockpile of M79 grenades, M16 and AK47 assault rifles.

Do you think your government would be as tolerant as the Thai government has till now been?

Reungvit Nandhabiwat is the owner of a business in Bangkok.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuCLcjRIbJc

[youtube:2wsm1v0k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuCLcjRIbJc[/youtube:2wsm1v0k]

Thai friend who is back upcountry 'cause he couldn't pay his rent on his one room apartment - watch his job go up in smoke.

[Beachlover]

That video is pretty shocking how it shows the damage up close huh? And you see the red shirts cheering outside.

Unbelievable. Just think of how many businesses were vapourised in the space of a couple of hours... and so many jobs terminated as well.

[Beachlover]

Images of burnt out streets and buildings in Bangkok this morning:

http://twitpic.com/1p9qp7

http://twitpic.com/1p9wka

http://twitpic.com/1p9stx

http://twitpic.com/1p9t8c

http://twitpic.com/1p9tid

http://tweetphoto.com/23141453

http://twitpic.com/1p9rbu

I wonder if Central World can be repaired or if they'll need to demolish it.

[Beachlover]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/34 ... 29839.html (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/34-places-hit-by-arsons-BMA-spokesman-30129839.html)

34 places hit by arsons: BMA spokesman

The spokesman of the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration said 34 places in Bangkok were hit by arsons Wednesday night and early Thursday.

Thanom On-ketphol, the BMA spokesman, said the places included 17 branches of five banks.

Other places were department stores, minimarts, 7-Eleven shops and Lotus Express shops as well as several houses.

Attempts to rescue the residents were hindered by gunmen in black shits who fired at fire trucks, the spokesman said.

The Nation


http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Ra ... 29840.html (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Rajprasong-remains-a-danger-zone-30129840.html)

Rajprasong remains a danger zone

After a day-long rioting, parts of Bangkok, including Rajprasong, are still unsafe, Army spokesman Sansern Kaewkamnerd said on Thursday.

"Fighting has not completely stopped at Rajprasong and nearby areas which remain closed to the public for safety reason," he said.

The security forces will today repeat a sweep of Rajprasong in order to flush out remaining "terrorists", he said.

[Beachlover]

Soldiers tying up a captured red shirt:

[youtube:1idsbupx]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIeFDhfDvfw[/youtube:1idsbupx]

35 listed now

Arson at 35 Spots Last Night
UPDATE : 20 May 2010
Adviser to the Bangkok governor Thanom Onketpol said a total of 35 sites were torched.

Shopping malls which were earlier torched still see fire igniting. They include Center One at Victory Monument, an 8-storey building on Siam Square Soi 4 and 5, Central World and Big C Ratchadamri.

The areas that were torched include 17 bank branches, 2 department stores namely Central World and Center One, the Siam movie theater, a Victory Monument noodle shop, and 6 cars belonging to Channel 3.

Fire is still raging at Siam Square as security officers have been barred from going in by gunshots which continue to ring out.

The adviser to the Bangkok governor added the hotline 1555 is currently out of commission as rioters have gone into the building housing call center officials so they've had to be removed from the premises. He did say the hotline 199 of the police, 1646 of the Emergency Medical Center, 1137 for Jor Sor 100 traffic radio, and 02-288-5050 are still working.

Torched Buildings:
10 Bangkok Bank branches
2 Kasikorn Bank branches
2 Siam City Bank branches
2 Krung Thai Bank branches
1 Government Savings Bank branch
Center One (Victory Monument)
Central World
Centara Grand Hotel
Grand Diamond Hotel
Metropolitan Electricity Authority Klongtoey branch
Maleenont Tower (Channel 3)
Stock Exchange of Thailand
Mahatun Plaza Ploenchit
Building next to Narcotics Police Bureau (Dindaeng)
Convenience Store next to Narcotics Police Bureau (Dindaeng)
Gold shop on Pahonyothin Soi 1
Phranakorn Noodle Shop at Victory Monument
Big C Ratchadamri

A little late for a Bolshevik revolution?

how long before Thaksin accuses the government of lighting the fires to make the red shirts look bad...

2010-05-20 09:35:01

Curfew Remains in Bangkok, Public to Remain Indoors Tonight from 8 P.M. - 6 A.M.

Dr. Panitarn Wattanayakorn of the Center for the Resolution of Emergency Situation (CRES) has confirmed that the curfew will still be in effect for provinces under the Emergency Decree tonight. Under the curfew the public is prohibited from being out of their private residences from 8 P.M. - 6 A.M.

[Beachlover]

Richard Barrow's Bangkok Dangerous map was very useful but has pretty much become obsolete overnight.

Here's another map giving some idea of what happened yesterday:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8& ... 3,0.040219 (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=112331146470803025156.000486dbd5efc2f9ad7fd&source=embed&ll=13.740875,100.538525&spn=0.045043,0.040219)

[Beachlover]

This is the twitter stream of a farang who openly supports the reds:

http://twitter.com/TonyHedges

What makes it a bit extreme is he believes the reds have been in the right every step of the way... even believes there are no reds carrying weapons at all.

[Beachlover]

This guy is a well respected combat zone journalist... won awards and has had his work featured in most major US media outlets.

His Twitter stream has a lot of interesting observations:

http://twitter.com/Michael_Yon

Generally his observations walking around extensively seem to have been:

- The police and soldiers are serious but friendly with foreigners and journalists... they were always polite

- He never saw any censorship whatsoever... journalists were able to wonder around freely... they even followed troops right through the barricades

- He was always on the look out for unprofessional behaviour on the part of the troops during this last assault but never saw any... says the troops were very professional (although, I think these may be different from the conscript-like troops who initially secured the streets at the beginning)

- The Thais have been very friendly... offered him water sometimes... advised him on how to stay safe etc.

[bao-bao]

****

This is a thread about what's going on there for those of us who care but don't have the time to scout around multiple sites ourselves...much like there is going over in Ting Tong's "up to the moment" thread, but there's different input here. If you have that much free time, you're a lucky man - enjoy it!

[Beachlover]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuCLcjRIbJc

[youtube:ii3zvwa0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuCLcjRIbJc[/youtube:ii3zvwa0]

Thai friend who is back upcountry 'cause he couldn't pay his rent on his one room apartment - watch his job go up in smoke.

Bangkok Post reports the damage will exceed 1 billion baht and result in the loss of 300 businesses and over 1,000 jobs inside.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... llion-baht (http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/178527/arson-causes-centre-one-1-billion-baht)

----

Nation reporting many of these buildings need to be demolished entirely.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Ce ... 29882.html (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/CentralWorld-Center-One-Siam-Theatre-Big-C-Rajdamr-30129882.html)

[Beachlover]

Farang protester talking about looting the mall for gold and watches then burning it down (which is what happened later).

What can you say?

[youtube:ep7sv6ce]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3YqrqhMvco[/youtube:ep7sv6ce]

hope its a clear enough shot of his face for immigration to match it up to the picture taken when he entered the country. see if he is quite so smart then.

[Beachlover]

He was wearing all black (i.e. black shirt guard/protester) too. I wonder what he did when the troops and armoured vehicles rolled in.

after watching the Central World on Fire youtube.
I say: This country has no law now. Where are the firemen? Where are the police? Where are the military?

I am so glad I don't live in Bangkok anymore :sign3:

after watching the Central World on Fire youtube.
I say: This country has no law now. Where are the firemen? Where are the police? Where are the military?

I am so glad I don't live in Bangkok anymore :sign3:

Frankly, so are we.

[yedo111]

Thanks for the reports .

I think it will be back to normal within 4-6 weeks , but they need 2 years to rebuild Bangkok.

Still it should be safe to travel soon .


:thumbleft:

"Rebuild Bangkok"...that's the kind of breathless exaggeration you might hear on CNN.

Only thirty-something buildings were destroyed.

http://lostmoya.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/postapocalyptic-ruins.jpg


"Rebuild Bangkok"...that's the kind of breathless exaggeration you might hear on CNN.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_oIa9uH7EPfM/SkTlM38bKLI/AAAAAAAAAtc/BMOH3U6H8fo/s400/baudrillard.jpg

Only thirty-something buildings were destroyed.

Farang protester talking about looting the mall for gold and watches then burning it down (which is what happened later).

What can you say?

[youtube:1iw6goix]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3YqrqhMvco[/youtube:1iw6goix]

this idiot is the subject of an article in Times Online http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article7132393.ece - interestingly the video has been removed from youtube....

Briton in Red Shirt demonstration regrets video arson gibe
A British Red Shirt who was shown on YouTube promising to burn down a Bangkok shopping centre has expressed regret for his words and insisted that he had nothing to do with the arson attack that destroyed the luxury mall four days later.
Jeff Savage, of Tonbridge in Kent, said that his outburst, which has caused outrage among Thai internet users, was sarcastic and came at a moment of frustration because of the imminent suppression of the Red Shirt demonstrators by the Thai Army.
тАЬI hold my hands up тАФ it was me, and IтАЩm ashamed that I lost my temper,тАЭ he told The Times by telephone from his home in the Thai resort town of Pattaya. тАЬI was tired and emotional and full of steroids. I said weтАЩre going to burn down Central тАФ I was being sarcastic.тАЭ
The 74-second video was removed from YouTube by the young American man who filmed Mr Savage, 48, on Saturday as he walked down a street occupied by the anti-Government Red Shirt protesters. It showed him dressed in the black clothes of the protest movementтАЩs guards and brandishing a stick which he throws down in anger.
Amid much swearing he is heard to say: тАЬWeтАЩre going to burn down Central World,тАЭ and threatening to loot gold and jewellery from the shopping centre. To Mr SavageтАЩs embarrassment, Central World was burnt down by a mob on Wednesday, after Red Shirt leaders handed themselves in to Thai police and called off their protests.
He insisted that he had played no part in the mayhem, and that at the time he was watching тАФ although not taking part in тАФ another arson attack on a Thai television station. But he defended the destruction of property as a weapon in the тАЬclass warтАЭ which he believes the Red Shirts are fighting.
тАЬI was not involved [in either arson attack], it was far too dangerous,тАЭ he said. тАЬBut from what I heard it was some of the guards which did it to Central. I heard rumours that it was planned and that stuff had been put inside тАФ gas canisters and stuff. It didnтАЩt just go off because someone put a lighter to it.тАЭ
An Australian man has stood up and given speeches at Red Shirt rallies but Mr Savage is the only Briton known to be an active member of the movement. He said: тАЬI donтАЩt mind if they knock on my door and throw me out of the country. But I would be disappointed to end up in a Thai jail.тАЭ

[Thai Dyed]

Forget about Bangkok. It's on it way out, or at least under.
http://www.nowpublic.com/environment/bangkok-sinking

[krobbie]

Thai Dyed, While the observation posted is correct (even if from last year) it is hardly news. If you were in the country right now you would see that even the Chao Phraya river is very low and most of the country is in drought right now.

I have been here for 2 weeks and it has rained once for 30 minutes. There was an attempt to rain the other day but all the sky could muster we a sprinkle and it dried within minutes. I am pleased to report the the extreme high temperatures of last week have given way to more "temperate" climes of about 36┬░C daily.

The curfew has been a necessary nuisance. Can't get out to meet people for dinner etc. but is enabling the Police and army to get on with routing out the rest of insurgent types that are still lurking. Tonight the curfew is from 10.00pm - 5.00am, so an extra couple of hours to go out. Tomorrow maybe even later start. Maybe 11 - 5.

Tomorrow is my last last day as I leave at 7.30pm. It has certainly been an exciting 2 weeks and am pleased I was able to be with my lover over this time instead of fretting about him in New Zealand.

Cheers,
Krobbie

Thank you Krobbie for your excellent unbiased reports. Safe trip home and let us hope this wanton destruction of businesses, jobs and homes comes back to haunt all those fools that carried it out.

BTW Personally I hope the Thai authorities saw the video of that British moron threatening to burn down Central World and throw him in jail. I suppose he's another brainless farang who thinks he is Thai!

[Thai Dyed]

This Dyed, While the observation posted is correct (even if from last year) it is hardly news. If you were in the country right now you would see that even the Chao Phraya river is very low and most of the country is in drought right now.


The lack of rain has absolutely nothing to do with Bangkok sinking. The city is built on a mudflat which is compressing as water is pumped out of the aquifer to serve the needs of the metropolis. To be specific, it is today calculated with scientific precision that the city is sinking at the rate of about 100mm per year. Bangkok is on average 1 meter above mean sea level. Do the fucking math!

Additionally, this is nothing new. I met a group of Dutch scientists in the late 1970s in Bangkok who had been there for five years studying the situation for the Thai government. At that time the city was subsiding at the rate of 25mm per year. The conclusion they reached was that it would be cheaper to move the city than to try to stop the inevitable. Since then, things have only become much worse.

And if that were not bad enough, there is also the rising sea level which is already encroaching on the edge of the city at Khun Samut Chin temple, as well as elsewhere, as you see in these photos:

[attachment=1:3nkkplzt]Khun Samut Chin.jpg[/attachment:3nkkplzt] [attachment=0:3nkkplzt]Khun Samut Chin temple.jpg[/attachment:3nkkplzt]
"The monastery grounds are less than a tenth of their original size, and the waterlogged temple is regularly lashed by waves that have forced the monks to raise its original floor by more than three feet. Among a group of villagers attending morning prayers at the temple, 45-year-old shrimp farmer Rakiet Phinlaphak looks toward the watery horizon from the promontory and says, 'I have seen the sea rising higher since I was a child.'"

I find it appalling that most people are unaware of these facts. Your amateurish observations are useless, if not in fact dangerous krobbie. The fact of the matter is that Bangkok is going to be the first large city in the world to go under water and unless you are on death's doorstep, you will live to see it.

Cheers yourself!

[Thai Dyed]

I have been here for 2 weeks and it has rained once for 30 minutes. There was an attempt to rain the other day but all the sky could muster we a sprinkle and it dried within minutes.


Here are some photos taken after a period in which there had been NO RAIN. The author's comments are as explicit as they are factual:
"Bangkok and neighbouring provinces are at risk of being swamped as sea levels rise, according to warnings at the recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change meeting. The capital rests about 3┬╜ to 5 feet above the nearby gulf, although some areas already lie below sea level. The gulf's waters have been rising by about a tenth of an inch a year. But the city, built on clay rather than bedrock, has also been sinking at a far faster pace of up to 4 inches annually as its population and factories pump some 2.5 million cubic tons of water out of its aquifers. This compacts the layers of clay and causes the land to sink. The capital could be under the sea as early as 15-20 years. These pictures were taken at Samut Prakan this morning as high tide flooded the city center. There has been no rain for the last several weeks."

In case you are unaware krobbie, Suvarnabhumi Airport is located in Samut Prakan province which is located at the mouth of the Chao Phraya river on the Gulf of Thailand.

The photos below were taken about 18 months ago. In that time Bangkok has sunk approximately an additional 150mm (or approximately 6 inches).

Thinking about this further, I suspect that periods of drought may in fact actually exacerbate the subsidence since it is likely that even greater demands are made upon the ground water aquifer at these times.

Cheers again krobbie!
[attachment=3:16o0ap8z]IMG_4392.jpg[/attachment:16o0ap8z]
[attachment=2:16o0ap8z]IMG_4609.jpg[/attachment:16o0ap8z]
[attachment=1:16o0ap8z]IMG_4615.jpg[/attachment:16o0ap8z]
[attachment=0:16o0ap8z]IMG_4693.jpg[/attachment:16o0ap8z]

It is also worth remembering that no real drainage system was built in Bangkok such as large monsoon ditches running the length of roads etc as in other Asian countries such as HK and Singapore. All of us that have lived in Bangkok know most roads flood quite easily during heavy downpours because the drains just can not cope with it. Notice also that building drainage systems mostly have overflow pipes directed directly onto passer-by's walking on the pavements below.

[Thai Dyed]

Yet another great photo from the same talented person which he took yesterday:
[attachment=0:3up8br4s]IMG_3119.jpg[/attachment:3up8br4s]
The gutted Siam Theatre in Siam Square (Photo: Richard Barrow)

[Thai Dyed]

It is also worth remembering that no real drainage system was built in Bangkok such as large monsoon ditches running the length of roads etc as in other Asian countries such as HK and Singapore. All of us that have lived in Bangkok know most roads flood quite easily during heavy downpours because the drains just can not cope with it.

But where can one drain the ocean? Again I stress that the photos I posted above were taken during a period in which there had been absolutely NO RAIN for weeks and that this is water from the sea.

[Beachlover]

Does anyone think Abhisit deliberately let the red shirts run amok (to a certain extent) afterwards burning buildings etc.? It seems amazing the army weren't ready to deal with these mobs. These buildings took a fair bit of time to set alight.

Sure it was costly. But politically, it's a major win for the government.

It has killed a lot of tolerance and sympathy for the reds and made them very unpopular to many Thais. Their actions made the red shirt movement look even more like complete thugs, unreasonable, violent, unintelligent and unable to judge consequences... all very useful for the election when it finally comes.

Their actions made the red shirt movement look even more like complete thugs, unreasonable, violent, unintelligent and unable to judge consequences...

http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/item/2007/0709/life/map_gaza.jpg
[X] In Bangkok intimidation works even better than in Gaza.



1204. On 6 January 2009, during the military operations in Gaza, Deputy Prime Minister Eli Yishai stated: "It [should be] possible to destroy Gaza, so they will understand not to mess with usтАЭ. He added that тАЬit is a great opportunity to demolish thousands of houses of all the terrorists, so they will think twice before they launch rocketsтАЭ. "I hope the operation will come to an end with great achievements and with the complete destruction of terrorism and Hamas. In my opinion, they should be razed to the ground, so thousands of houses, tunnels and industries will be demolishedтАЭ. He added that тАЬresidents of the South are strengthening us, so the operation will continue until a total destruction of Hamas [is achieved]тАЭ.

1205. On 2 February 2009, after the end of the military operations, Eli Yishai went on: тАЬEven if the rockets fall in an open air or to the sea, we should hit their infrastructure, and destroy 100 homes for every rocket fired.тАЭ

1206. On 13 January 2009, IsraelтАЩs Foreign Minister, Tzipi Livni, was quoted as saying: We have proven to Hamas that we have changed the equation. Israel is not a country upon which you fire missiles and it does not respond. It is a country that when you fire on its citizens it responds by going wild тАУ and this is a good thing.

1207. It is in the context of comments such as these that the massive destruction of businesses, agricultural land, chicken farms and residential houses has to be understood. In particular, the Mission notes the large-scale destruction that occurred in the days leading up to the end of the operations. During the withdrawal phase it appears that possibly thousands of homes were destroyed. The Mission has referred elsewhere in this report to the тАЬday afterтАЭ doctrine, as explained in the testimonies of Israeli soldiers, which can fit in with the general approach of massively disproportionate destruction without much difficulty. http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hr ... -12-48.pdf (http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/12session/A-HRC-12-48.pdf)

[Beachlover]

A fierce debate on Al Jazeera... this was before the big Bangkok crackdown that saw the protesters forced out:

[youtube:22faj0qz]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b8mYooNwwg[/youtube:22faj0qz]

[X] http://khikwai.com/blog/2010/05/22/intermission/

[krobbie]

I find it appalling that most people are unaware of these facts. Your amateurish observations are useless, if not in fact dangerous krobbie. The fact of the matter is that Bangkok is going to be the first large city in the world to go under water and unless you are on death's doorstep, you will live to see it.

Cheers yourself!

Thai Dyed they are my observations. I go to Thailand twice a year and I do not take gumboots. If it is sinking at the rate you say then there will indeed be trouble in the long run but don't put shit on me for simple observations.

Lovely pictures of Samut Prakhan probably courtesy of Richard Barrow whose blogs I read constantly.

Perhaps you are suggesting that we all pack water-wings or inner-tubes on each trip, just in case. I just don't see how my observation was dangerous and affected anyone particularly.

Now that we are armed with all this information and alerted to the situation Thai Dyed, what is your answer to the problem?

Krobbie

BANGKOK, March 26 (UPI) -- Thai officials said Friday disaster areas have been declared in 53 provinces due to water shortages brought on by a severe drought.

The Interior Ministry's Disaster Prevention and Mitigation Department said a total 1,755,100 households, or 6,482,602 people, have been affected by the extreme dry season, the Bangkok Post reported Friday.

The drought has also caused damage to 58,300 acres of farmland in the 53 provinces, officials said.

The officials said rescue workers with the department have distributed 20.6 million gallons of water in the area and performed installations, repairs and upkeep on 3,645 weirs, 3,985 reservoirs and 689 water pumps.


Sunday, April 4, 2010 (ASIAN ENERGY)
Thailand Facing Severe Drought along Mekong River

Water levels in the Mekong, Southeast AsiaтАЩs largest river running from the glaciers of Tibet to the rice-rich delta of southern Vietnam, have dropped to a 50-year low.

One farmer says his second crop of rice is already dying because there is not enough water to nourish the saplings.

[Prasert Rath-chakom, Farmer]:
"Right now, I can't see how the government can help fix the problems because the drought has severely intensified. They have not found an alternative water source for farmers so far."

Farmers usually pump water from the Kam River to irrigate their crops, but now several sand bars extend across the river that used to irrigate more 40 thousand acres of land in Chiang Rai Province.

[Prasert Rath-chakom, Farmer]:
"We take underground water to use for our second crop but it is not enough. It increases our cost, because fuel is expensive and there are still other miscellaneous costs. The water is really not sufficient.тАЭ

Digging to find underground water isnтАЩt cheap.

[Wandee In-Thara, Deputy Chief, Chiangsaen District]:
"This crisis is unusual. When the dry season comes, normally there's still some water left in the pond. But this year, the Mekong River's levels have gone down dramatically, to something I have never seen before. We cannot pump enough water to use for agriculture.тАЭ

Wandee says villagers living along the Mekong River are relying on a small water station for their irrigation needsтАж but it can only irrigate around 80 acres a day.

krobbie, do you think Thai Dyed is one of those guys who wraps his head in tinfoil to protect himself from the 'rays'?

http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/u12/tinfoil_hat.jpg

[krobbie]

SR ... probably.

Cheers
Krobbie

the idiot Australian who was on the red-shirts stage has been detained:

Australian arrested over Red Shirt protests
By Peter Cave

Conor Purcell was arrested at his apartment complex on Sunday. (Bangkok Post: http://twitpic.com/1k5sse)
The Department of Foreign Affairs has confirmed Thai police have arrested a 30-year-old Australian man under the emergency decree used to end almost two months of Red Shirt protests in Bangkok.
The man has been identified as Conor David Purcell, an ex-soldier working in Bangkok as a language teacher.
Purcell was arrested at his apartment complex in the city on Sunday and appeared in court on Monday charged with immigration offences.
He has already been convicted of overstaying his visa.
Thai authorities say he incited unrest while speaking from the stage of the Red Shirt protest camp on two occasions.
Bangkok's Kom Chad Luek newspaper is quoting police sources as saying he served for seven years in the Australian Army and had received sniper training.
Thai media is reporting he is being questioned about possible involvement in last week's violence that left more than 50 people dead and hundreds injured.
Purcell is receiving consular assistance from the Australian Embassy.
He has been charged under Thailand's emergency decree - a charge which can result in a two-year jail sentence.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/25/2908805.htm

[Beachlover]

Oh, god. Not an Australian. Just when I thought the greatest act of breathless stupidity from a farang was resigned to a Brit, an Australian comes along to take that trophie. He even got up on stage!

The Thais might well throw the book at him. The only thing that might dig him out is sympathy from the media/Australians (Thais want to be popular so they attract tourists) but I'm not sure there will be any in this case.

Oh, god. Not an Australian. Just when I thought the greatest act of breathless stupidity from a farang was resigned to a Brit, an Australian comes along to take that trophie. He even got up on stage!

The Thais might well throw the book at him. The only thing that might dig him out is sympathy from the media/Australians (Thais want to be popular so they attract tourists) but I'm not sure there will be any in this case.

I wish they would pick up that Brit who was in the Youtube video threatening to burn down Central World.

[Beachlover]

Can't say he didn't get the protesters worked up.

He REALLY gets fired up towards the end at 6 mins 30 secs screaming at the crowd:

- "I would like to ask the Thai solders, do you come from Thai Mothers??!!" [Crowd cheers like mad]

- "Do you have Thai Sisters???!!!" [Crowd cheers like crazy]

- "I saw you shoot into Thai Mothers, Thai Sisters, Thai Uncles!!!" [Now the crowd really goes nuts]


[youtube:2yo1c1wd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHosYuf-HfA[/youtube:2yo1c1wd]

[Beachlover]

I wish they would pick up that Brit who was in the Youtube video threatening to burn down Central World.

I heard he's been arrested.

I wish they would pick up that Brit who was in the Youtube video threatening to burn down Central World.

I heard he's been arrested.

Where did you pick that up Beachlover? I hope it's true.....

[Beachlover]

Google "Jeff Savage arrested"... it's in lots of news outlets now.

He's well f*cked. Even if he manages to avoid jail, his dream lifestyle in Thailand with his Thai wife and all is gone for good.

[Beachlover]

Very interesting article on the Black Shirt protesters.

http://atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE29Ae02.html

Here are some interesting bits:

-----------------------------------

If the battle for Bangkok was largely a hearts-and-minds campaign for public support, the Ronin's actions undermined the nonviolent ethos espoused by the UDD.

They described their purpose as ''protecting'' the demonstrators and standing as a force-equalizer against Thai security forces. They perceived themselves as ''black angels'' watching over the unarmed farmers and families who comprised the red shirt rank and file.

Despite this heroic self-image, these angels brought death and chaos. Their campaign of violence is believed to have claimed a number of innocent lives and possibly provoked the deaths of dozens more.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and his government, along with other observers, blame them for tipping an already tense stand-off on April 10 into bloody pandemonium by killing army officers and attacking soldiers, who then fired live rounds into red shirt crowds. Twenty-five people died that day.

''Soldiers are lining up with their war weapons and shooting into crowds of red shirts, all of whom are completely unarmed,'' UDD spokesman Sean Boonpracong said from the Ratchaprasong stage on May 15, only hours after the Ronin returned from their mission.

Their actions also handed the civilian government the excuse it needed to send in troops with deadly purpose on May 19 to end the UDD's six-week occupation of Ratchaprasong. Seeking to justify the government's use of lethal force, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban revealed seized weaponry before foreign diplomats and the press on May 22.

"Terrorists have used these weapons to attack officials and innocent people," he said.

------------------------

When hundreds of pro-government protestors rallied near the UDD's fortress on April 22, he announced the imminent arrival of ''some men wearing black'' to aid the reds. Soon thereafter, five M79 grenades landed near a pro-government group, killing a 26-year-old woman and injuring nearly 100 others. That weapon, the M79 grenade launcher, is consistent with a months-long campaign of violence and property destruction, which the government has also pinned on the UDD.

------------------------

''Not Terrorists Not Violent; Only Peaceful and Democracy,'' read a banner hanging outside the barrier of jumbled tires. Inside, it was an open secret who the gunmen were; no less secrete were the perimeter bombs, connected by dirty gray cables, designed to inflict heavy casualties on any advancing government army soldiers.

------------------------

Eventually a call came in from a UDD guard. The army had succeeded in securing a location near Pratunam, the intersection bounding the northern extent of the red-occupied commercial district, and was pushing hard against protesters. They needed help.

M16 and AR-15 rifles slid free from concealment under plastic or inside their clothing. In less than 10 minutes, the gunmen loaded ammunition into clips and locked them into place.

Ammunition was running low, they said. Each fighter was given no more than 30 rounds to carry. Although we didn't see any M79 grenade launchers, the Ronin discussed a bulky sack of grenades they were carrying. Just after 9 pm, the dozen fighters rose and scurried silently into the night to sow another round of mayhem.

For the next nine hours, bursts of intense gunfire erupted from areas around the red-zone perimeter. first from the direction of Pratunam, later from points along Rama IV Road.

Their tactics were consistent with those of trained guerrillas and snipers, letting off brief fusillades of gunfire before repositioning. They terrorized regular Thai army soldiers throughout the night, winding them up and denying them sleep.
------------------------