AP Reports: Thai protesters accept PM's compromise

BANGKOK тАУ Thai protesters say they have accepted a deal to end the violent political crisis that has paralyzed central Bangkok for nearly two months.

The Red Shirt leaders agreed Tuesday to Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's proposal to hold new elections on Nov. 14 in exchange for an end to their protest.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100504/ap_on_re_as/as_thailand_politics

[Beachlover]

This is a great start. Abhisit has done well to hit this result. It feels like he let the reds gain as little ground as possible from all this.

He let it sit for just long enough and did one of the most important things you can do to resolve any dispute... He built them a golden bridge to retreat across without losing too much face.

They did not directly agree to it. Weera will negotiate but there are lots of conditions attached to the red shirts going ahead, such as full details and a date of the parliament being dissolved, an end to government iintimidation, removing restrictiions on the media including the red shirt radio, websites etc, and a whole bunch more. Seh Daeng and a bunch of others are not happy about it, and nor is Chuan Leekpai.

[Geezer]

DonтАЩt pop the cork yet. Read what they said, not just the headlines.

One can welcome a proposal without accepting it.

The speeches made at Rajprasong were not very welcoming.

[Beachlover]

Thanks for the insight, FOF... I suppose it's a positive progression but there are still significant hurdles then.

[cdnmatt]

Thanks for the insight, FOF... I suppose it's a positive progression but there are still significant hurdles then.

Hopefully they manage to reconcile the few differences remaining, but rejecting the proposal with the excuses they used was just stupid, in my opinion. The demand that a date must be set for dissolution is stupid, because now if elections aren't held on Nov 14th, unless there's a VERY good reason, everyone knows there'll be a protest twice the size of the one we just seen.

Red shirts should be grateful Abhisit is currently in power, as he's been very respectful, cordial, and restraint throughout the entire process. Imagine if someone with a heavier hand was leading Thailand right now? There'd more than likely have been alot more blood spilt already. Even Kim said he really liked Abhisit and what he had to say, and this is after two months of saying he wants Abhisit to die.

Imagine if someone with a heavier hand was leading Thailand right now? There'd more than likely have been alot more blood spilt already.

such as Thaksin?

Imagine if someone with a heavier hand was leading Thailand right now? There'd more than likely have been alot more blood spilt already.

such as Thaksin?

Yes lots of blood, and you can bet he is running the show now.....Remember the number of innocents shot during his so called 'drug clean up' policy back in '03 time? Not a very nice man..........

[Geezer]

Yes. Two thousand five hundred.

It makes the Red Shirt affair seem like nothing.

Imagine if someone with a heavier hand was leading Thailand right now? There'd more than likely have been alot more blood spilt already.

such as Thaksin?

Yes lots of blood, and you can bet he is running the show now.....Remember the number of innocents shot during his so called 'drug clean up' policy back in '03 time? Not a very nice man..........

All those people were innocent?

[Geezer]

тАЬAll those people were innocent?тАЭ

No one knows. They were shot by police.

They had no trial.

The police claim that some of that two thousand five hundred were killed by drug dealers who were fearful they would be informed upon.

тАЬAll those people were innocent?тАЭ

No one knows. They were shot by police.

They had no trial.

Your brain is stuck in the Western World.

These people would never have been convicted in Thailand.

Thaksin did the right thing in this case by cutting to the chase. It's only Western bleeding hearts who were weeping over the "lack of justice". The police knew exactly who was doing what, and who to target.

They should bring this program back. It did wonders.

Your brain is stuck in the Western World.

These people would never have been convicted in Thailand.

Thaksin did the right thing in this case by cutting to the chase. It's only Western bleeding hearts who were weeping over the "lack of justice". The police knew exactly who was doing what, and who to target.

They should bring this program back. It did wonders.

what condescending drivel.

Condescending to whom?

Condescending to whom?

condescending and and insulting the people of Thailand and their legal system to suggest that extra-judical executions are acceptable here.

Condescending to whom?

A Dictatorship.

[quote="Oops I Did It Again":uxkr7jzo]Condescending to whom?

condescending and and insulting the people of Thailand and their legal system to suggest that extra-judical executions are acceptable here.[/quote:uxkr7jzo]

Oh, get off your high horse. The Thais are the first to admit that their legal system is completely broken down -- particularly when it comes to prosecuting shadowy and influential people.

[quote="dave_syd":155msx3q][quote="Oops I Did It Again":155msx3q]Condescending to whom?

condescending and and insulting the people of Thailand and their legal system to suggest that extra-judical executions are acceptable here.[/quote:155msx3q]

Oh, get off your high horse. The Thais are the first to admit that their legal system is completely broken down -- particularly when it comes to prosecuting shadowy and influential people.[/quote:155msx3q]

but are we talking about the lack of prosecutions of shadowy and influential people, or the acceptance of extra-judicial executions of drug dealers because Thailand is not part of the West?

The majority of the people of Thailand are too poorly educated and too politically immature to have true democracy. If they had it, they wouldn't know what to do with it. They just know how to copy... they don't know how to THINK and democracy demands a populace who can hear the arguments of the politicians, reason them through and cast their individual vote. The Thai way is for the village to go to the head man of the village, ask him how to vote, then they all do what they are told to do. That is NOT democracy.

ajarntrade

[bao-bao]

The majority of the people of Thailand are too poorly educated and too politically immature to have true democracy. If they had it, they wouldn't know what to do with it. They just know how to copy... they don't know how to THINK and democracy demands a populace who can hear the arguments of the politicians, reason them through and cast their individual vote. The Thai way is for the village to go to the head man of the village, ask him how to vote, then they all do what they are told to do. That is NOT democracy.

ajarntrade
A lack of education IS a problem, ajarntrade - I agree on that point, anyway. Just as here in the US when people vote in a manner they think is "educated" and it's really only what they've learned from TV ads that have been "paid for by" folks hiding behind misleading names, such as we have now in California: the power utilities spending millions to defeat a bill that would negatively effect them by telling us it would hurt we taxpayers. Their misleading ads are tagged as being paid for by "Californians for fair Representation" or some such nonsense. Democracy can be hobbled by big money and deceptive groups.

So, just as Thai villagers would put their support behind an elder, we put our support behind senators and the likes who have been bought and paid for by big business (i.e. insurance or drug companies, for example).

I don't have the answer, but it's a mess... here AND there. It's just more out in the open there, perhaps. Same same, but different.

[jinks]

The Thai way is for the village to go to the head man of the village, ask him how to vote, then they all do what they are told to do. That is NOT democracy.

ajarntrade

You forgot the payment for the "correct" vote.

[Beachlover]

The majority of the people of Thailand are too poorly educated and too politically immature to have true democracy

I know it's definitely no comparison to Thailand but I almost want to say that about Australia as well... just look at what the shit for brains we voted in wants to do.

By proposing to hike taxes from 30% to 40% for the mining industry he's proposing to go and fuck with the one industry that makes the difference between Australia being a cocoon of easy life and joining in the rat race with the rest of Asia.

But yeah... it's no comparison to the level of ignorence and narrow exposure most of rural Thailand's population has. We are aghast at the idea of villagers all gathering to decide who to vote but but I think for them it's pretty normal and they don't see anything wrong or strange about it... I mean, they live in a village so they do everything together right?

[cdnmatt]

The majority of the people of Thailand are too poorly educated and too politically immature to have true democracy.

The other thing I've noticed is for some reason, alot of Thais seem to have a total disregard for their fellow human and their environment. They'll litter like crazy, and its no worries, because there's paid workers to clean up after them. They'll throw beer bottles in with food scraps, because the security guards will pick them out of the trash. If you're a servant (watier, waitress, security guard, whatever), then you're there to serve, and don't expect any respect or politeness from people.

Ok, that's a bit exaggerated, but you know what I mean. Thais for some reason don't seem to be under the realization that this is THEIR country. In Canada, there seems to be a collective realization where everyone know there's Canadian, this is our country, and we're all in this together, so lets make the best of it. You don't get that as much in Thailand.

The majority of the people of Thailand are too poorly educated and too politically immature to have true democracy.
With the exception of Switzerland Western states are pseudo-democracies at best. Thais are poorly educated and politically immature? This argument was more convincing when used for the first time in 1932. Sufficiency democracy is based on sufficiency education for the masses. Thais deserve better.


They'll litter like crazy ... Thais for some reason don't seem to be under the realization that this is THEIR country. In Canada, there seems to be a collective realization where everyone know there's Canadian, this is our country, and we're all in this together, so lets make the best of it. You don't get that as much in Thailand.
http://www.milton-keynes.gov.uk/safermk_serious_acquisitive_crime/images/Neighbourhood-Watch-Logo.jpg

Thais are not Protestants. They don't have a policeman in their head.

"But the ideal was very different, and for this ideal to be realised, the spiritual police force with which Calvin surrounded the members of his church had to be relocated inside the conscience of every individual Christian. It was in pursuit of this ideal that Puritan preachers set out to arm each one of their flock with a personal spiritual discipline and thus to create the authentic Puritan conscience. ... the inner psychological reality of the Puritan conscience тАУ which is the form of conscience idealised in all modern Western democracies тАУ ... It was George Orwell who suggested that the perfect totalitarian society was one in which all citizens are so trained to habits of obedience that there is no need for policemen. It could be said that the perfect secular society is similar."

http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/9f/4b/5c683e6b4b60b7f8e5925738ab12.jpeg
Same same, Toronto. Guess why North American men flee to Thailand.

Malvina Reynolds: Little Boxes (1962)

Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky tacky,1
Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes all the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.

And the people in the houses
All went to the university,
Where they were put in boxes
And they came out all the same,
And there's doctors and lawyers,
And business executives,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.

And they all play on the golf course
And drink their martinis dry,
And they all have pretty children
And the children go to school,
And the children go to summer camp
And then to the university,
Where they are put in boxes
And they come out all the same.

And the boys go into business
And marry and raise a family
In boxes made of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one,
And they're all made out of ticky tacky
And they all look just the same.

http://www.police.qld.gov.au/Resources/Internet/programs/crimePrevention/images/nhw_logo_250.jpg

[Beachlover]

The other thing I've noticed is for some reason, alot of Thais seem to have a total disregard for their fellow human and their environment. They'll litter like crazy, and its no worries, because there's paid workers to clean up after them. They'll throw beer bottles in with food scraps, because the security guards will pick them out of the trash. If you're a servant (watier, waitress, security guard, whatever), then you're there to serve, and don't expect any respect or politeness from people.

Ok, that's a bit exaggerated, but you know what I mean. Thais for some reason don't seem to be under the realization that this is THEIR country. In Canada, there seems to be a collective realization where everyone know there's Canadian, this is our country, and we're all in this together, so lets make the best of it. You don't get that as much in Thailand.

The littering thing is actually the natural thing to do. Most developed countries have had long-running ad campaigns, which gradually changed this habit... now, putting garbage in the nearest bin or carrying it is the norm... so of course when we go to a country where people are still doing what's natural... we are a bit shocked.

[cdnmatt]

Red-shirt rally core leader Weng Tojirakan has called on at least one-million red-shirt people from across the country to mobilize to the Ratchaprasong intersection to put pressure on Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to dissolve the parliament as soon as possible.

Red-shirt protest leader Weng also slammed the soft-spoken premier by claiming that Abhisit is cunning-- saying that the premier does not deliver what he promises and Abhisit is good at creating an image.

Oh geez, go home already, before you end up going home in a box. They're still going off about a million man march???

The majority of the people of Thailand are too poorly educated and too politically immature to have true democracy.

The other thing I've noticed is for some reason, alot of Thais seem to have a total disregard for their fellow human and their environment.

Believe it or not, the situation has improved a lot over the past 20 years I have been here. I recently revisited Erawan Waterfall -- last time was around 15 years ago. It is relatively clean now, and you actually have to place a deposit of 20 baht on every plastic bottle you take into the park -- which you get back on producing the empty back at the entrance. Smoking has also been outlawed in national parks, and they were enforcing it the day I was at Erawan. Much better than before.

[Beachlover]

Erawan Waterfalls look really beautiful... Looks like a fair distance to reach them though.

About three hours from Bangkok, in Kanchanaburi province.

If you want to be shocked by litter, go to India (or Africa, ...). Thailand is a Disney park compared to other areas.

I haven't looked closely, but great climate change conferences don't seem to tell the world to properly dispose of their garbage, particularly their plastic garbage. This is just being washed into the oceans choking marine life (if it hasn't already choked land animals) and forming immense islands.

Love the trip to Katchanburi. Many times. Many waterfalls and forest stops along the way. FUN ;-)