Low season here already [2] why are gays avoiding Pattaya

[lonelywombat]

aot87 wrote:
Back to the main point, I think the main reason , 1) low exchange rate 2) high price of drinks and hotels , etc coupled with the exchange rate, 3) lack of service given by the boys ie in and out as quick as possible and lastly guys want a change of scene if its for their holiday. I wont tell u the name but last year I payed approx 1400bht for my hotel room at this time of year, now its getting close on 2000 per night. I was getting 56 bht to the ┬г now it nearing 45 , so any sane person can see what I mean. Also the trouble is most farang bar owners are getting like the thais , ie instead of bringing down the drink prices to try and get more punters to come into the bars they now tend to increase the prices to make up for their losses



The low exchange rate might apply to the northern hemisphere but for Australians the Aust$ is still hovering around 30c up from low 20s. Low exchange rates and high cost of drinks dont apply for us, yet still the numbers from here are in decline. My friends that have not visited recently and plan not to in the forseeable future mention the political unrest, the closing of the airport last year and the negative reports on sex tourism in the press.

Most have mentioned that they used to rely on Sawatdee for their information and motivation for their travel. Since the board has become so negative they have stopped visiting. The number of registered members on line is now rarely more than 15.Usually about less that 25% of those reading the board at any time. I cannot recall recently when the numbers in the previous hour was greater that 100, substantially down on figures of 12 months ago. [ see bottom of the forum page]

I wonder how many of those who do not log in are regular visitors to LOS or perhaps first time forum visitors seeking info for perhaps their first trip. On the portal page is a list of the top referring sites. Ricequeen diary, dreaded ned and gaytingtong, top the list. I doubt if the content of this board would encourage them to revisit, make their first visit or if they come to Thailand ,visit Pattaya.

I had a PM that suggested that the forum was only "a goof?" a chance to take the piss out of people.
Sawatdee has certainly has lost its relevance through lack of moderation. If it was to be sold I would suggest its value has halved in less than 12 months. It certainly has lost its former relevance for tourists.

Why would anyone seeking info for their first trip ever come on line here and ask for help?

Certainly the budget traveller will be impacted by the points in the quote, but what percentage of gay travellers are cut price tourists?

There are probably many of the "90 in the previous hour" that remain logged on whilst surfing or working. I do myself. A rough guess at the number of visitors in a day, registered and not might be 1000. Of those, say 50 might be considering a trip to Pattaya. They will get little from this board to encourage them and a substantial volume of posts to discourage them.

As for the low season. I prefer it. The bars, clubs and the beach are not crowded. Rent Boy numbers might be down from around 1000 to 400, but if you cant find one to pleasure you, you must have high expectations. The quoted comment that boys rush in and out surely only applies to high season. In low season there are keener to give service and are grateful to earn any tip.

Wouldn't a rough and ready way to look at how many new topics are started. By this indicator there are threads on the first page that started almost a week ago. Is this normal?

[Smiles]

Wouldn't a rough and ready way to look at how many new topics are started. By this indicator there are threads on the first page that started almost a week ago. Is this normal?
As long as folks post a reply to any thread, even though it may be 4 years old, that will bounce it straight back to the top of the first page.

[Beachlover]

Alrighty, to bring it back on topic then...

1. Why do you keep making these doom and gloom reports about declining gay visitors to Pattaya? (not to mention the board) Do you just enjoy making alarmist/dooms day proclamations?... It's not as if you have commercial interests there... or do you? Tourism fluctuates. Trends change. Tourism in Australia is suffering heavily at the moment too.

2. Why do you keep making doom/gloom reports about SGT and say its value has halved? Why base it on wildly speculative and flawed metrics? Do you have access to actual unique visitor numbers? Ad revenue? Ad click through rates? The amount of content generated here daily is enormous (as inane a 95% of it may be). SGT has killer search rankings. There would be a huge number of visitors who just browse on from relevant search terms... some click on an ad an leave. Others stay about and start posting.

3. SGT is still ahead. You'll find other boards like GTT probably have "nicer" and more on-topic posts. Perhaps not as many new members are turned away by abuse etc. But you know what does turn them away? Boredom. Boring as bat sh*t. Lower frequency of posts. Less robust discussion. GTT "loses" more activity through its lower search rankings and activity levels relative to what SGT loses through abuse etc.

The net effect is SGT is still ahead. But it's a fine balancing act. And if it goes belly up... it's not the end of the world. It's just here for laughs after all.

[Koh Samui Luv]

Wouldn't a rough and ready way to look at how many new topics are started. By this indicator there are threads on the first page that started almost a week ago. Is this normal?

Hey Andrew! I was just reading an analysis about new topics started being normal and abnormal in the ABO OUTBACK TIMES.
Since you get all your news from the papers and rely on that, it really surprises me that you missed that one. It's on page 32 in yesterday's edition, written by Dr. Amaroo Imeerawanyee. Did you miss it? A bonzer ditty it is too. Dinky di. Some may say we have a few Kangaroos loose in the top paddock but I just tell the drongos where to go.

There's also an in-depth analysis of the complete history of Thai politics (past, present & future) on page 68 which should also rivet your attention written by the same guy, Dr. Amaroo Imeerawanyee. I think he used to run a bar on Soi Twilight if memory serves me right. In fact, I'm sure he did.

[Koh Samui Luv]

1. Why do you keep making these doom and gloom reports about declining gay visitors to Pattaya? (not to mention the board) Do you just enjoy making alarmist/dooms day proclamations?...

2. ...it's not the end of the world. It's just here for laughs after all.

1. Maybe he is Marc Faber? You know Dr. Faber lives on a farm in Chiang Mai and perhaps it's a subtle way of drumming up business to move north.

2. Well, the end of the world, at least for Bangkok, is right around the corner and that's no laugh:
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/thai ... -sinking-1 (http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/thailand/090202/bangkok-sinking-1)

[paperboy]

OMG

[Diec]

But you know what does turn them away? Boredom. Boring as bat sh*t.

Beachbore, that is how everyone describes you!!

[lonelywombat]

[quote=Beachlover]Fair enough. Don't think I ever saw that post. I thought you were referring to a later one where Spike mentioned cash flow problems and wanting to sell the board for any reasonably low 5 figure offer.

As for 6 figures... "tell em he's dreaming"... You'd have to do a lot of work to make this board worth $100k.

I stand by my remarks that the value of sawatdee has halved over the last 6/12 months, if it was saleable.
Just two weeks ago you stated the board needed a lot of work. I doubt if your solutions offered above mean much.You say sawatdee has killer search rankings. They are valueless if the new viewer is turned off from returning by finding only abuse and other negative postings, rather than the helpful info for a potential tourist.

[paperboy]

hi everyone
i must agree with lonelywombat, some people on here, are very off putting and are not doing thialand any favours.



paperboy

[Surfcrest]

some people on here, are very off putting and are not doing thialand any favours.


And attracting sex tourists is? This site is here to pacify the membership, not the country they live in / frequent.
Once the rain starts, no doubt you will see a lot more posts from ex-pats and people silly enough to book their holiday in the rainy season.
(Or more posts from Copper Pheel with his multiple posting personality disorder)
Especially if they can't go out with rain drops as big as your fist. All the blah blah blah about red shirt / yellow shirt is what's really killing tourism.
When people ask me about going to Thailand, I tell them it's fine.....and to bring cases of wine.

se dice Thailand....no thialand

It is good we know that we do not have to take you seriously, even if anyone did.

The quality of that comment doesn't square with what you deplore in others being snide or contemptuous, one of the main reasons you cite the board is going downhill. Add to it all the left-handed attacks on Jinks as moderator and I don't know how you can write this kind of post with a straight face.

All of the qualities that make up this board continue to make it entertaining to visit. Dour, pissy and pious comments from you are actually what I consider to be one of the board's weaker links. Nobody, especially the fun loving patrons of SGT, likes to have a stern finger waggling in their face, but that's the image I get when you start of on your, yes, NEGATIVE comments and posts. Whether you like it or not, this forum is not brain surgery serious, it IS a goof...a way to pass time in a lighthearted way. I start reading other places and get bored out of my skull at the dry, monotonous pace they have. I can't even read the Global Forum here for that same reason.

GF, FF, BL, Scottie, ThaiDyed and others (Christ! Even Paperboy!) may be characters and have their quirks, but they are NOT boring. Geez, I guess in a way you play a part in the board's feisty dynamic as well...but trying to pin the downfall of traffic to Pattaya on SGT wilder traits is just flat out wrong at any level.

BTW, the reason for the drop off in Pattaya/Thailand biz is certainly the GFC, combined with the higher costs as bar/hotel operators try to make up for lower volumes, exchange rates, political unrest, higher airline cost and airport closures. The complete evaporation of any kind of customer satisfaction in the go go/host bar realm as guys get more and more savvy, internet-schooled and yaba-addicted. All these factors has made using their services depressingly unpredictable and unsatisfying for many. I would say that the future of commercial sex is probably going to be in Gay Romeo type servicing to the detriment of the bars. It reminds me of the demise of the old adult porn shops and their little booths, which have all but disappeared since the internet rolled into town. We're all better for that, so perhaps the future will be far more enjoyable than what we see today.

Now these are unfortunately all NEGATIVE reasons, LW. But they are part of the answer to your question. The pace, content participators of SGT, however, are not.


PS--And by the way, Paperboy, many here on the board have found your frequent posts asking for advice already widely dispensed in the archives and available at a the tips of your google-enabled fingertips off-putting as well, but you've found a home here with our eclectic family of posters. Why do you, and for that matter, Mr. LW, continue to come back again and again and again to the board you supposedly are put off by??

[lonelywombat]

Jack if you read the closed thread it outlined the reasons why Thailand is already into low season.
I made the point that the budget tourist might have stopped coming for the "costs" outlined but not necessarily the more affluent tourist. Australian press weekly trumpet that Australians are flooding overseas and even today Qantas reported increased long haul sales.

But how many Australians are coming to Thailand? It is not as was quoted in the OP because of the exchange rate as the exchange rate for the OZ$ is substantially up on 12 months ago. It is not because of the high cost of drinks or the lack of service by bar boys.

Certainly the GST has had an impact on some countries. The airport closure weighs more on the OZ tourist mind.

The heading was copied from an earlier thread
gay-thailand-f9/low-season-almost-here-t19307.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand-f9/low-season-almost-here-t19307.html)

Maybe you can offer some positive suggestions as to why gays are not coming and what we as a board might do.

[PinkSilom]

The growing number of gay men using the Internet to meet sex dates could be having a detrimental effect on the bar scene. This phenomenon doesn't appear to be motivated by avoiding off fees and costly drinks. Those who chose this method don't appear to feel they're missing anything by spending less time in Pattaya's bars.

Perhaps Pattaya's gay scene has passed its peak. Maybe the number of bars up for sale is indicative of a flooded market; too many bars chasing too few customers.

That said, I believe several bar owners have stepped up to the mark in recent years. Pattaya is home to some really well managed gay bars.

Maybe you can offer some positive suggestions as to why gays are not coming and what we as a board might do.

LW, I don't know if it's possible to offer 'positive' suggestions. Thais (and the foreigners that are beholden to them for their success) generally do as they please and I never get a hint that they acknowledge or care if how they are going about providing services has strayed way off the mark. They are stubborn and resistant to critical thinking- something that might help them to improve their 'product'. So...

- they close airports at the start of high season.
- raise drink prices outpacing their costs.
- work yaba-crazed.
- present, dress and groom themselves to please each other even at the expense of making themselves less appealing to prospective clients.
- offer, for the most part, either completely insincere, straight trade OR...
- fems/ladyboys that really should have their own scene, to better match up with prospective clients.
- don't seem to have the kind of inner compass that compels them to provide a bare minimum customer satisfaction and worse...
- also don't connect that their performance, or lack thereof, is tied to how well they are compensated (??).
- sit around lazily looking bored when customers come into bars.
- have no problem hawking customers into bars with a only couple of offerings in stage.
- upon being offed do everything they can to do as little as possible and leave as soon as they can.
- offer gay 'accommodation' that is invariably 2 star, sleazy and roach infested.
- are forever subjecting their foreign guests to harassment and embarrassment by association.
- no controls on the thousands upon thousands of touts and Indian tailors that bother and harass tourists.
- an endless stream of scams and rip offs, from wetbikes to airport limos to tuk tuks with farang-only fares.

The complete disappearance of any semblance that gays frequenting Thailand will be able to find a quality experience, fair pricing and sincere delivery of services is what is happening internally to Thailand's gay industry, IMHO. Externally the exchange rate (and who cares is the AUS$ is holding up well? You're just a small sliver of the total gay tourist trade here!), overall economic crisis, political unrest,games played with visa rules, insane increases in international travel fares and Thailand's disintegration as a safe tourist destination as designated by international standards (via embassies) all contribute to the downfall.

Why do you keep projecting 'positive' when the product has soured? You ask for recommendations on how to improve it, well, they need to reverse or eliminate the issues I have enumerated above. There's nothing you or me or anyone else can do on this board. It's up to the Thais, and they've shown time and time again they are stubborn and don't give a rat's ass about what we 'farang' think. So, obviously many would-be tourists are voting, with their dollars, to stay away in droves.

Now, your turn: What POSITIVE suggestions would YOU offer, besides changing everyone's posting behavior here at SGT, to reverse the gay tourism decline here?

[Beachlover]

Just two weeks ago you stated the board needed a lot of work.

I said the board would need a lot of work done to make it worth $100k (if this is even possible).


I doubt if your solutions offered above mean much.

That's because they're not "solutions". They're observations.


You say sawatdee has killer search rankings. They are valueless if the new viewer is turned off from returning by finding only abuse and other negative postings, rather than the helpful info for a potential tourist.

Load of sh*t. Valueless?

From a purely commercial perspective, it doesn't matter how many readers are turned away. It's the net result of visitors and retention that matters.

Search rankings bring lots more visitors. Better to attract 10,000 visitors and only retain 1% of them (100) then attract 500 visitors and retain 5% (25). It's the net result that determines $$$. And a good number of the 9,900 visitors who didn't return probably clicked on ads anyway.



I stand by my remarks that the value of sawatdee has halved over the last 6/12 months, if it was saleable.

Typical armchair opinion. Got anything to support your statement?

Sorry - I don't mean to pick on you without reason but (1) you're being a dick and (2) your continual doom/gloom comments sound a lot like the Daily Telegraph (or whichever junk tabloid they publish for the "moron" class of people in Melbourne) and (3) you're stating crap as fact.

[Beachlover]

It is good we know that we do not have to take you seriously, even if anyone did.

Dour, pissy and pious comments from you are actually what I consider to be one of the board's weaker links. Nobody, especially the fun loving patrons of SGT, likes to have a stern finger waggling in their face, but that's the image I get when you start of on your, yes, NEGATIVE comments and posts. Whether you like it or not, this forum is not brain surgery serious, it IS a goof...a way to pass time in a lighthearted way.

Well put!

[Beachlover]

But how many Australians are coming to Thailand?

Maybe you can offer some positive suggestions as to why gays are not coming and what we as a board might do.

But why do you care? And why should "the board" do anything?

What do you suggest? Pass a collection plate around and raise $30m for an ad campaign?

But how many Australians are coming to Thailand?

Maybe you can offer some positive suggestions as to why gays are not coming and what we as a board might do.

But why do you care? And why should "the board" do anything?

What do you suggest? Pass a collection plate around and raise $30m for an ad campaign?

If SGT charged you $10 for each post we would soon hit that $30m target

:laughing3: :laughing3:

[Beachlover]

Your attitude is SWD is just for laughs sums up the quality and quantity of your contributions.

Well what are you here for? Encyclopedia creation? Careful cataloging?

One final qualification on the problems that are affecting the gay visitor numbers:

I am describing it from a visitor's perspective, NOT as a resident or super-frequent visitor. Once you are onto the 'game' there are tactics that can be used to increase customer satisfaction and decrease the rip-off aspect. Key is once the guys know that you are a repeat customer with future $$ potential or the ability to affect their jobs by complaining, the service levels improve.

I pity the poor gays that have 'TOURIST' stamped on their forehead and have been put through the 'farang-grinder' the trade in Thailand has become so good at working, the sooner to get back to their peers and drugs. The trade guys just KNOW that first timers and nervous farang customers are going to tip well no matter if all they do is wank themselves off watching the boy pick his nose. Can't blame them if they take their advantage where they think they can, but it's shitty PR.

I think the future will be much brighter once the boys get good at Gay Romeo and visitors begin using it and other services regularly. What would be great would be to have a sort of Tripadvisor-styled review of the boys and how they do on a date. Can't be any worse or more degrading than trotting out half naked in their underwear and having a mamasan do the review for them with potential client. In a weird way, I think the boys would actually respond better if there was some visceral way they were reported. They may actually enjoy playing for better remarks! Vanity can be their friend.

....

I think the future will be much brighter once the boys get good at Gay Romeo ......


If/when that happens, bang goes one of my reasons for visiting Thailand.... I can do the Gay Romeo thang in the UK just as cheaply (when you factor in all the costs) - and without the language difficulty.

:dontknow: :dontknow:

I can't think of a BETTER THREAD than this one to explain why SGT is such an enjoyable and entertaining blog most of the time! We got everything working here, all the stars pitching...there's LW and his soupussness, Smiles coming down Mt. Sinai with his tablets, BL and his spunky comments, Scottie chiming in with his witty posts, Surfcrest stopping by to chip in one of his classic trademark common sense entries, and even Paperboy...PAPERBOY!...getting into the act. Not to mention Brad and all the others...

It almost reads like an ensemble comedy act...can fiction get any more bizarre than the mix of personalities we've got here? Or the discussions we get into?

Good job guys! Keep 'em coming! (no pun intended)

==============
Scottie,

No, YOU CAN'T! To get these beautiful, silky brown-skinned gods with their cute little ways you have to come here. Once you've had Thai, I doubt you can go back to Western guys full time.

[Beachlover]

I can't think of a BETTER THREAD than this one to explain why SGT is such an enjoyable and entertaining blog most of the time!

Better enjoy it while you can... before SGT's resident librarian, LW has it closed to start "Low season here already [3] why the world is ending" :-)

[thrillbill]

I'll give my 5 bahts worth of thought on this topic. There is a drop in "gay" tourism in Thailand - BUT,also in other countries due to the world economic situation. As it was mentioned in other repllies, cost of flights have increased along with some currencies not having as much buying power.

For me, Pattaya is not my favorite "gay haven" (I live in Pattaya because my job is in Sri Racha). I prefer Bangkok which seems to have a more normal gay scene and offering my kind of candy -30ish, with a job, and stays fit...(not just 18 year old money boys). But I think Pattaya does have its "niche" for the retired gay farang that can enjoy themselves at the go-go clubs, Dontong Beach and meet some young, friendly young man that normally he wouldn't be able to meet socially back in his own country.

In the five years I have lived in Pattaya, I have seen the gay venues improve... Sunee Plaza does not look so seedy as it did five years ago and there are some decent outdoor bars to relax at Sunee (not just go-go clubs); Boystown is still great for the new visiting tourist; gay dance clubs such as NAB matches that of any gay club in BKK; and Jomten Complex area has some great restaurants and boutique hotels and the Venue has a great cabaret show. And there is the Sansuk sauna. Besides the "gay venue" there is also the new Central Mall, California WOW fitness center and new restaurants in downtown Pattaya. --These are all improvements in the last five years since I have lived here. And Pattaya is still a cheap destination compared to other gay cities abroad. (Wow, if you can't afford a hotel or food here once you get here, then why are you even traveling outside of your country??)

Like all tourist traps, many establishments(especially in Thailand) will offer crap service and yet expect high prices (this also includes the commercial escorts (called "boys" in Pattaya). With a restaurant, bar, or club...the businesses will eventually fade away into the Thai sunset. But the gay farang that deals with the "commercial escort" business (boys) may not find the "boys" working in the clubs and free lancing providing poor service not fading into the sunset. They end up thinking they're special due to being over paid by some naive farang tipping way beyond the norm, making the "one night only" gig expect the same $$ or more the next time.

Interesting to note that some of the whiners on this forum still come here to visit .

Interesting to note that some of the whiners on this forum still come here to visit .


But less often perhaps, that's the point.

:bounce:

Thrillbill,

You are 100% correct, but I think the bar has been raised substantially for gay tourists that come infrequently to Pattaya. The learning curve has moved decidedly higher and has left the occasionally visitor behind now. You have to be a local or frequent visitor to enjoy a cost effective 'gay' vacation in Pattaya that sends you home happy.

There was never any doubt that Pattaya, if you know where to look, is heaven on earth for the regulars. The drop off in the ones that don't have the luxury of knowing the place well enough to make their 4-7 day visit productive is what's hurting gay tourism.

It may just be that gay-oriented entertainment is just not meant to be mass marketable and the strain is showing. Quality control is the first thing that go when volume goes up with little or no attention to standards, and no inclination for the vendors to sustain them. It may be that the spotlight shone on Pattaya by its success has played a big role in reducing its desirability as a discreet destination for Thai guy fans. Sort of a victim of its own success...throw in all the economic and political turmoil and it's a wonder there is any business coming.

There was never any doubt that Pattaya, if you know where to look, is heaven on earth for the regulars.

That's a bit of an over-statement isn't it jack?

Would you believe...'really fun place for regulars'??

Would you believe...'really fun place for regulars'??
[X] A colourful old people's home with beach, boys and kathoeys. Ni m├бs, ni menos.

Oh I don't know about that, after all many of the Farangs you see in Pattaya look as though they have been dead for years. :notworthy:

I love it, you couldn't make it up LOL.... One only has to see the man in a skirt to go along with that romania.................

[lonelywombat]

Your attitude is SWD is just for laughs sums up the quality and quantity of your contributions.

Well what are you here for? Encyclopedia creation? Careful cataloging?

I have been a member here for more than 5 years double your time and have stayed here for the info on Thailand and Pattaya.
I can remember when the posts were informative and helpful, i.e.before you came along with your daily dozen of self important comments.
A lot of trip descriptions together with photos made this board once a very interesting place to visit.
I dont mind your childish barbs about librarian when I try to keep on topic a thread that is interesting.
At least I try to be constructive.

[Dodger]

Tourism is down all over the planet because of the screwed up economy. LOS is no different. Gay farangs haven't stopped coming to Pattaya because of the polital unrest in the countrys capitol - because most would crawl on all fours through a battlefield to get back to that young cock they've been dreaming about. No, I don't see politics as a detractor.

I think it's much more plausible to assume that many can't make the journey because they simply can't afford it. Either they lost their jobs, lost their investments in the money markets, or are just flat-out paranoid about securing the little savings they do have.


That pretty much sums it up from where I'm sitting.

[lonelywombat]

I just received a PM from a person who tried gay pattaya and gay thailand on facebook, and says all he got was the owner of GTs website, They then tried youtube and got a mixed bag of videos. Not very interesting or exciting.

I then googled gay travel agencies australia and found that the largest travel franchise in Australia Flight Centre, have a gay travel section. I chose Thailand and there were 7 pages, 10 listings to a page, not one featuring Pattaya. Rang them and they knew little about Pattaya.

Just now I went to MCV the gay publisher covering free newspapers and magazines in all states. When I searched for travel found their travel section under international, had no listings for Thailand.

As I said earlier , the OZ economy is booming and outbound overseas flights are always close to full.
Dodger comment "most [gays] would crawl on all fours through a battlefield to get back to that young cock they've been dreaming about." If there is up to date info about Thailand then they will not come.

Sunee businesses have produced a website that is known locally, gayaffairspattaya an excellent weekly report, does not have a large circulation.

Its similar to the small noodle shop that opened last month near my home. He complains "nobody come" thats because nobody knows he is there.

They are stubborn and resistant to critical thinking- something that might help them to improve their 'product'. So...

- they close airports at the start of high season.
- raise drink prices outpacing their costs.
- work yaba-crazed.
- present, dress and groom themselves to please each other even at the expense of making themselves less appealing to prospective clients.
- offer, for the most part, either completely insincere, straight trade OR...
- fems/ladyboys that really should have their own scene, to better match up with prospective clients.
- don't seem to have the kind of inner compass that compels them to provide a bare minimum customer satisfaction and worse...
- also don't connect that their performance, or lack thereof, is tied to how well they are compensated (??).
- sit around lazily looking bored when customers come into bars.
- have no problem hawking customers into bars with a only couple of offerings in stage.
- upon being offed do everything they can to do as little as possible and leave as soon as they can.
- offer gay 'accommodation' that is invariably 2 star, sleazy and roach infested.
- are forever subjecting their foreign guests to harassment and embarrassment by association.
- no controls on the thousands upon thousands of touts and Indian tailors that bother and harass tourists.
- an endless stream of scams and rip offs, from wetbikes to airport limos to tuk tuks with farang-only fares.
A funny list. Holiday decision makers should take note, though I have suffered from the italicized evil only.


Thais (and the foreigners that are beholden to them for their success) generally do as they please and I never get a hint that they acknowledge or care if how they are going about providing services has strayed way off the mark.
Thais and foreigners pay a price for that, and Thailand is certainly not a country for everyone. But I prefer our brilliant teachers of playfulness the way they are. And I wouldn't shed a tear if the last gay venue in Thailand closed its doors. Only the injured need crutches.

[Surfcrest]

ItтАЩs low season that's coming, not the end of the world boys!

GayRomeo, or whatever social networking site you think rules in Thailand isnтАЩt going to replace the commercial scene so long as dumb boys continue to fall out of buses from who knows where with visions of a wealthy farang towing that ultimate meal ticket.

The Canadian / Australian currencies are up, most others are down. The Global economy, the red shirt yellow shirt thing and simply having more choices around the planet for travellers to go without the risk of airport closures are what's taking travellers elsewhere. As for a decline in overall gay travellers to the LOS, it wasnтАЩt something I noticed when I was there in November / December. Similarly so, I havenтАЩt had any concerns renting out either of the two apartmentsтАжalthough IтАЩve noticed an increase in straight couples / singles renting and moving into the Jomtien area.

The good old days where horny old men would come to paradise and find hot and cold running boys 24/7 here might be changing. Quite a few of my friends in Pattaya have been here for many years, a fairly large group that doesnтАЩt include anyone that has done the same thing anytime lately. IтАЩm of the mindset that in Pattaya, this was American thing. I canтАЩt speak of the Australians but we Canadian usually go home when we get old to take advantage of our health care system. Americans on the other hand can quite often find cheaper health care and sometimes more accessible services in Thailand.

There have been a few bumps in the market in the past 10 years or more. Some folks that didnтАЩt invest wisely lost a great deal of the nest egg that would allow them to retire as kings in the LOS. For those that invested differently, especially for those that made a few bucks in Gold or Real EstateтАжthe outcome was better.

Are Americans retiring in Thailand now and at the same rate they were 10 to 30 years ago?

Thailand has something that you canтАЩt really find elsewhere in the worldтАжand this will always draw folks here. For some itтАЩs Sunee and for others such as me, itтАЩs Dong tan Beach. We just have to be mindful that if we fags donтАЩt make up enough influence with tourism in Thailand weтАЩll find ourselves being moved farther down the beach yet again.

[Aunty]

I don't expect the tourism numbers in Thailand (including the gay tourists) to fully pick up again until the World economy is firmly back on its feet. Maybe in another couple of years? And of course it would help if the reactionary elite wouldn't close the airport again in the meantime. That was an own goal if ever I saw one.

All countries ebb and flow in popularity as a tourist destination and Thailand is no different. What I am interested in seeing for the homosexual traveller to Thailand however is how the fashion will change with the inevitable changing of the generations. Will host and gogo bars be the sort of experience desired by the current generation of young gay men once they reach 60, and are travelling to Thailand, or will such things be considered a relic of the past, dated, out of fashion and just plain exploitative and desperate that you just no longer do?

Gay men who live in countries such as New Zealand (and parts of Australia) do not need to travel to Thailand now in order to secure the services of young male sex workers as str8 and gay prostitution is perfectly legal here from the age of 18. How many more countries will this be the case in the future? (Sorry America, but you wonтАЩt be one of them) Already the womenтАЩs institute in the UK is pushing for prostitution to be legalised there based on the NZ model. Moreover, with the invention of the internet it is so easy to find willing men to turn a couple of tricks to earn a few bucks legal or not. And they are not even sex workers. How relevant and needed will sex tourism to Thailand in the future be?

[Marsilius]

We just have to be mindful that if we fags donтАЩt make up enough influence with tourism in Thailand weтАЩll find ourselves being moved farther down the beach yet again.

I'm not sure that the evidence suggests that the Thai authorities think in the way, Surfcrest.

One could easily argue that, as gays have increased their profile as tourists and as the supporting gay infrastructure has blossomed, the authorities have actually sought to distance themselves from us. That might be for fear of negative publicity in other, homophobic parts of the world that would deter visitors - or perhaps they feared puting all their marketing eggs in one basket.

Whatever the reason, instead of thinking logically that gays were providing an economic bedrock to Thai tourism and, if treated with consideration, would be the most loyal customer base and the one least likely (because of the uniqueness of the Thai product) to desert Thailand because of its obvious flaws, the Thai tourism authorities have done little to encourage gay visitors per se. In fact, they have often seemed to be encouraging visitors (e.g. Russians, moslems) who would find our lifestyle objectionable and make us feel unwelcome.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that "gay tourism" in Thailand means "sex tourism" which means "prostitution"?

[TrongpaiExpat]

Are Americans retiring in Thailand now and at the same rate they were 10 to 30 years ago?


Interesting question but where (who) would you get an accurate answer from? 30 years ago there was no retirement visa. It's just been around for what, 8 years or so? In my limited experience living here I get the sense that there does seem to be less and less Americans. When I hear someone speaking English, it's seldom an American accent.

I was talking to a guy at the Balcony last night, he was an American. He had been touring Thailand for a month and told me that I was the first American that he had run into. He did not visit Pattaya yet, he might find some more there.

When I was in Ko Chang recently, I did not hear one person speaking native English in any accent. It was wall to wall Scandinavians.

[ceejay]

Will host and gogo bars be the sort of experience desired by the current generation of young gay men once they reach 60, and are travelling to Thailand, or will such things be considered a relic of the past, dated, out of fashion and just plain exploitative and desperate that you just no longer do?
Good questions Aunty. I suspect the answer to that may be "yes" and that the reason lies, at least in part, in the fact that gay men in their 20's are, on average, much less closeted than gay men in their twenties were, on average, 40 years ago.

As far as retirees goes, I suspect that there may seem to be fewer than there were because they are more dispersed around Thailand. I don't really have enough first hand information to answer that one - but I do know that there are substantial expat communities in Surin, Nong Khai and Udon Thani where perhaps once they would have been concentrated in Bangkok and Pattaya plus a few other places? I'd be interested to hear Trongpai's opinion on that.

[Marsilius]

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that "gay tourism" in Thailand means "sex tourism" which means "prostitution"?

Possibly... But the Russian and moslem visitors they encourage certainly aren't averse to prostitution either. So, if you are right, the question becomes why gay prostitution has been singled out?

That's the point. You can't promote "gay tourism" without promoting "sex tourism". You can promote tourism in general...then what people get up to on their own is their own business. Just what is "gay tourism" in Thailand without sex (mostly prostitution)? Right...NOTHING. That's why it is not promoted. Besides, do you really want moreTOQ's landing at Suvarnabhumi?

[thrillbill]

Are Americans retiring in Thailand now and at the same rate they were 10 to 30 years ago?


A good point with another reply was that maybe the demographics is changing in Pattaya compared to 20 -30 years ago. Just the five years I have lived in Pattaya, I notice less "Westerners" retiring here. A long time ago, when Thailand was cheaper,yet had a decent infrastructure - this place was "exotic" to many..but now Pattaya has grown and it is no longer the little seaside resort. Just in the last couple years, the Russians have flocked to Pattaya...they have saturated the Long Beach Hotel area at Naklua, and are in areas of Jomtien. ( My guess is that they make up 70% of the tourists here) Meanwhile, you see less and less British and Germans coming to Pattaya . So maybe the number of go-go clubs and other venues may have to decrease due to a different generation retiring and a change of nationalities visiting Pattaya. ---just a thought.

...Will host and gogo bars be the sort of experience desired by the current generation of young gay men once they reach 60, and are travelling to Thailand, or will such things be considered a relic of the past, dated, out of fashion and just plain exploitative and desperate that you just no longer do?


Let's cut to the chase here - most "sex tourists" (whom, I would contend, are the main visitors to such establishments) are middle aged/elderly men who desire sex with teenage/twenties boys/young men.

Now, if the aforesaid boys/young men are suddenly going to be in numbers in regular bars and clubs and offering free sex to men 30-50 years older than them, it may indeed spell the end for host and gogo bars. However, I would hazard a guess that this is unlikely.

The only development that I can see taking place is that the Internet may cream off some of the business from the host/gogo bars - but any thought that selling sex on Gay Romeo or (especially) LiveJasmin is not "exploitative" or "desperate" is gratuitous self-deception.

So, my answer is that today's "young men" will face exactly the same problem when they reach 50/60/70 as is the case at present - practically nobody in the desired age range wants to fuck them unless there's money involved. The choice then will be whether to be "desperate" online or "desperate" in gogo bars/massage parlours etc which I believe will still exist and will still be used as they have been for thousands of years in one form or another.


:occasion9: :occasion9:

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that "gay tourism" in Thailand means "sex tourism" which means "prostitution"?That must be why everyone knows Thailand is nothing more than Asia's brothel. All the gay tourists in Sydney the last couple of weeks for the Mardi Gras were not sex tourists only here for the prostitutes.

[lonelywombat]

decided to google Gay Travel Thailand and at the top of the list was Purple Dragon [escorted tours] and their Pattaya offer was 3 days ,2 nights staying at Ambience.
http://www.purpledrag.com/

Out Adventures did not mention Pattaya in all their options
http://intrepidtravel.com/out/?promo=go ... _kwcid=gay (http://intrepidtravel.com/out/?promo=googleout1&s_kwcid=gay) travel|2796954071&gclid=CL-zsrK2tKACFRQW

Gay Travel in Thailand
did not mention Pattaya

Utopia seemed to have a fair selection on Pattaya yet it did not seem attractive. I had the feeling that Purple Dragon is run by Utopia

googled for gay travel pattaya

Out and Utopia headed the list but the best was New Gay Travel a US based travel agency
http://newgaytravelguide.com/2009/06/02 ... ztown.aspx (http://newgaytravelguide.com/2009/06/02/a-gay-guide-to-pattaya-thailand-sunee-plaza--and-boyztown.aspx)

Although a small sampling, it does appear that gay Pattaya is not doing much to attract gay travellers after the good years. Several of us discussed this over breakfast and felt that the pattayagayreport , which is excellent, if it could lift its profile on google might be a terrific low cost starter.

We tried to find any articles on gay pattaya in the local gay press without success.Most of the gay press in Australia is owned by MCV, here is the contact
Peter Walton Publisher +61 2 9360 8934

Thai Airways fly out Sydney 3 direct flight per day, Melbourne 2 per day , Brisbane and Perth 1+ per day

Surely there is someone in Pattaya that can liase with Thai Airways and the Australian gay press to get publicity, competitions and giveaway seats to stimulate gay tourism. New Zealand and Canada both seem to be recovering well, so why not add them as well?

There seems to be many Thai businesses waiting for their luck to change. I was always taught, you create your own luck. Be interesting to see if anyone tries.

[Surfcrest]

Is there a point you are trying to make. On Page 3 you talk about informative posts, staying on topic...all the good stuff you and I like.
Then on Page 4 of this thread you received a PM and started to post this nonsense. What's up there Lonelywombat, slip in the tub?

[lonelywombat]

Is there a point you are trying to make. On Page 3 you talk about informative posts, staying on topic...all the good stuff you and I like.
Then on Page 4 of this thread you received a PM and started to post this nonsense. What's up there Lonelywombat, slip in the tub?
Point I was trying to make is it is not much good for businesses/ members to say it is bad in Pattaya ,nobody is coming any more and do nothing about it.
The first post put it down to high cost of drinks, exchange rates and attitude of boys.
I am asking the question is what is Pattaya doing to bring the place to the notice of gay men who no longer come any more. If there is no promotion then it will die.It does not have to.

[Surfcrest]

If there is no promotion then it will die.It does not have to.

It's not going to die my friend, just hibernate a bit until next November.

So, my answer is that today's "young men" will face exactly the same problem when they reach 50/60/70 as is the case at present - practically nobody in the desired age range wants to fuck them unless there's money involved. The choice then will be whether to be "desperate" online or "desperate" in gogo bars/massage parlours etc which I believe will still exist and will still be used as they have been for thousands of years in one form or another.

You make an excellent point. This is the way the world has been for many thousands of years...older men using comfort women and men in the darker corners of villages and cities. And it was much, much worse only 75 years ago. Children were not even considered to be worth protecting from the worst elements of society (child labor, prostitution, poverty) until around the 1930's.

What a concept! Old men have to pay for sex from pretty young people. You don't say?

You guys realize that gay prostitution is but a tiny sliver of the sex industry in this country, don't you? There's nothing unique or unordinary about older tourists flocking to this country for sex and 95% of it is for young women, not guys.

The problem is that much of the (gay) sex offered is done so by insincere vendors or frauds. I mean, straights don't have to deal with scores of gay girls and butch lesbians that are trying to pass themselves off as the 'real deal' to men that go into the beer and go go bars for comfort. And there are literally hundreds of beer bars and go go bars filled with thousands of girls on offer. I doubt the straights spend a second wondering if they are going to get what they want except if it's a ladyboy now and then sneaking through- but at least in that case it at least is pretending to be the real deal.

Point I was trying to make is it is not much good for businesses/ members to say it is bad in Pattaya ,nobody is coming any more and do nothing about it.
The first post put it down to high cost of drinks, exchange rates and attitude of boys.
I am asking the question is what is Pattaya doing to bring the place to the notice of gay men who no longer come any more. If there is no promotion then it will die.It does not have to.

You know, it's completely nuts for you to concede that the product here has soured because of reasons X, Y and Z then turn around and wonder why Pattaya isn't promoting itself to the very same target consumers who will come here and find the problems X, Y and Z. You tend to want to separate the reasons for why people might be avoiding the place from the fact that they are avoiding the place! That's insane.

It's a circular logic: You want to know why, then when told you say 'I don't like that because that's negative thinking', then ask what can be done to improve patronage without ever addressing the underlying reasons why there is a problem in the first place.

Do you get any of that, LW?

[witchhunt]

Dodger says
Tourism is down all over the planet because of the screwed up economy. LOS is no different. Gay farangs haven't stopped coming to Pattaya because of the polital unrest in the countrys capitol - because most would crawl on all fours through a battlefield to get back to that young cock they've been dreaming about. No, I don't see politics as a detractor.

I think it's much more plausible to assume that many can't make the journey because they simply can't afford it. Either they lost their jobs, lost their investments in the money markets, or are just flat-out paranoid about securing the little savings they do have. end quote.

They will come back. This year, next year, the year after, never?

surfcrest says
It's not going to die my friend, just hibernate a bit until next November. end quote
Thats 8 months to go after a poor high season that did not last very long!!!!!!!!!Maybe they can last?

Lonely wombat says [ in brief]
gay tourists that can afford to travel are overlooking or have forgotten Pattaya!!!! end of quote .

It will be interesting to see how many bars survive.

[Surfcrest]

The problem is that much of the (gay) sex offered is done so by insincere vendors or frauds. I mean, straights don't have to deal with scores of gay girls and butch lesbians that are trying to pass themselves off as the 'real deal' to men that go into the beer and go go bars for comfort. And there are literally hundreds of beer bars and go go bars filled with thousands of girls on offer. I doubt the straights spend a second wondering if they are going to get what they want except if it's a ladyboy now and then sneaking through- but at least in that case it at least is pretending to be the real deal.

True enough Jack, but then again it also doesn't mean a few of these gals aren't going to take it up the ass either.

[Beachlover]

Besides, do you really want moreTOQ's landing at Suvarnabhumi?

Well LW does... He's running about on FB, YT and Google panicking there's not enough information on Gay Thailand.

[Beachlover]

I can remember when the posts were informative and helpful

They still are. It is a shame there are some but not as many photographic trip descriptions anymore but there's always GTT for that.

I'm sure you remember when there was no internet and you had to actually visit bank branches in person too... Things change.


I have been a member here for more than 5 years double your time... At least I try to be constructive.

What? By moaning about decreasing visitors? Closing threads with interesting discussions?

I've posted my fair share of useful information and as inane comments as have you. Get over yourself.

[andrewcraig]

Dont agree will lonelywombat about half the time. Well done splitting the thread and starting again.Lot of old posters seem to have returned.Dont let beachlover and his ego get to you.He destroyed the other thread with some help from FF. Hope this old style can continue and beachlover goes to tingtong. I doubt they will tolerate his stuff there. Jinks should get rid of FF and LMTU who has reappeared again here as just a moment and tingtong as R&R.

[Beachlover]

Do you get any of that, LW?

Wait 3 days and you might get his response. Not necessarily an affirmative.


You know, it's completely nuts for you to concede that the product here has soured because of reasons X, Y and Z then turn around and wonder why Pattaya isn't promoting itself to the very same target consumers who will come here and find the problems X, Y and Z. You tend to want to separate the reasons for why people might be avoiding the place from the fact that they are avoiding the place! That's insane.

It's a circular logic: You want to know why, then when told you say 'I don't like that because that's negative thinking', then ask what can be done to improve patronage without ever addressing the underlying reasons why there is a problem in the first place.

That describes it well, Jack. But you haven't considered that LW actually WANTS to sit around talking about it rather than actually doing anything. In that case, never ending circular logic is ideal.

This thread has been most interesting but there are two possible reasons for declining number of gay visitors to Thailand, and Pattaya in particular,that have so far not been mentioned and which may be importance.

Firstly, many of the older gay tourists of the 70s, 80s and 90s are no longer with us - they are dead, and have not been relaced by many younger gay tourists who seemingly prefer to go elsewhere for free gay sex.

Secondly, and again applying to the 70s, 80s and 90s gay tourists, many are no longer fit enough to make longhaul flights.

How serious either of these points has affected gay tourists to Pattaya is a matter of opinion, but residents have only to look around at all the missing faces who so regularly travelled to Thailand in former years to know there has to be some truth in
these reasons.

Just a couple of thoughts.

[andrewcraig]

Why dont they take those two old girls beachlover and jack lipton out and shoot them They are adding nothing to the thread and we all know they think they are important. Just no one else does.

I know several US expats who have returned to the US because of the exchange rate on the social security, makes it impossible to live in LOS. Probably same applies to coming to live here. That is the bottom end of the finance chain. Budget tourists are the next.If those on social security and budget tourists stop coming, is it going to make much difference. Like, how much do they spend. All the comments are about retired and almost retired but where are the young men. I dont understand gayromeo but dont those guys want money.I have met thais from gaydar and fridae and they do.Personally I like the chase, to see a guy in the flesh, to make eye contact and negotiate. If I was too old for that Id go for a one hand massage.

I know several US expats who have returned to the US because of the exchange rate on the social security, makes it impossible to live in LOS. Probably same applies to coming to live here. That is the bottom end of the finance chain. Budget tourists are the next.If those on social security and budget tourists stop coming, is it going to make much difference. Like, how much do they spend. All the comments are about retired and almost retired but where are the young men. I dont understand gayromeo but dont those guys want money.I have met thais from gaydar and fridae and they do.Personally I like the chase, to see a guy in the flesh, to make eye contact and negotiate. If I was too old for that Id go for a one hand massage.

If you've actually been reading the thread, you'd see that the topic is 'why are gays avoiding Pattaya', not why are older gays not moving here or returning to the US after living here. As for the comments about where the 'young men' are, the liberalization and acceptance of gays in their home countries combined with the ability to find sex partners online easily have made spending enormous sums of money to fly half way around the world for it unnecessary. Besides, young gays don't need to pay for sex and probably prefer the BKK scene, with its discos and saunas, to Pattaya- which has always been a favorite of the older set.

[lonelywombat]

The original topic before it got shanghaid by the "HI SO ELITE" was low season here already.

It originally suggested that the reason was exchange rates, high cost of drinks in bars and bar boys rushing off to get another client and not giving service. Jack Lipton you accuse others of not reading the thread. You accuse others of being negative. Why dont you start a new thread with your opinions of what is wrong in Pattaya now and make it exclusive to you and beachlover to post to.

Maybe you can suggest a way for Pattaya or gaythailand to turn the situation around.

I honestly don't know how it's even possible to turn things around as you suggest, LW, unless there is a marketing campaign that is targeted at proprietors and their 'subcontractors'.

I'd say, long term, that over time monetary incentive will work its wonder resulting in the boys and the bosses eventually figuring out how to work it out. I don't really believe for a second the SGT board actually plays any part in determining Pattaya traffic, but I understand that you are concerned about dragging down the Pattaya rep- just witness Paperboy getting disillusioned in advance of his holiday here.

Curious to know what exactly you see as the solution... if you've already stated it I am guilty of not paying attention as FF pointed out on another thread.

[paperboy]

hi everyone again
have to just say yes, this forum has diselusioned me before i get there, i think if i had not booked my flights already, i would have second thoughts.
This happend before bto me, when i was going to rio in brazil, i changed my mind after reading reports about it.
So this board has helped me, but also in a kind of way put me off a little bit.
im still looking foward to it all, because im not just going for the sex

paerboy

Firstly, many of the older gay tourists of the 70s, 80s and 90s are no longer with us - they are dead, and have not been relaced by many younger gay tourists who seemingly prefer to go elsewhere for free gay sex.

Secondly, and again applying to the 70s, 80s and 90s gay tourists, many are no longer fit enough to make longhaul flights.

Not too sure if I follow your logic, particularly on the second point.

In your first point, do you mean that "free gay sex" is more available now to "gay tourists" who are "older" than it was to the same age group 40 years ago? An interesting point, if that's the one you were making.

The second point would only be valid if the first point were - otherwise, everything else being equal, the aging gay tourists of 20, 30 or 40 years ago would have been steadily replaced by the same demographic.

[Impulse]

paperboy is coming, he is a sex tourist though,as he admited it by saying he is not just going for the sex.Ha ha.

[dab69]

was just in Pattaya 4 days ago. when I was there couple of the Sunee Bars were packed and a couple
boystown bars were really doing quite well. If that is low season already I can't see how some can jump to
conclusions about why people aren't coming?

[witchhunt]

If Sawatdee forum was for sale, and I was a property developer in Pattaya/Jomtien I would buy this board, not shut it down but ban all the negative, bullshit, opinionated, useless pricks that have ruined this board.

No need to mention names at this time, but they stand out like flies on a dogs turd.

It would be interesting also to discover who the expats are that are so negative towards Pattaya. Might do that.

This board was a a useful source of info of Pattaya and Thailand for investors both gay and straight. Lets face it if people whatever their sexuality stop coming here, investment will die. One poster I wanted to let know my thoughts, does not allow PMs. no conviction there.

We are amused about the noisy ones who never seem to mention their trips to Pattaya, I wonder if they have ever been here.

[Beachlover]

I think the board is/was up for sale. Just PM the owner.

This thread may be about Pattaya but the board isn't just about Pattaya.

Fuck-Face can't get PMs because the mods banned PMs for him.

i think if i had not booked my flights already, i would have second thoughts

Paperboy, get a grip!

You will have a great time in Thailand. There are many negative arseholes on here, ignore them and have a wonderful holiday.

[paperboy]

thankyou

[francois]

hi everyone again
So this board has helped me, but also in a kind of way put me off a little bit.
im still looking foward to it all, because im not just going for the sex
paerboy

The only reason to visit Pattaya is for the sex and you will have a good time.

[atri1666]

The only reason to visit Pattaya is for the sex and you will have a good time.

Sure! 3 days to go

[Smiles]

" ...The only reason to visit Pattaya is for the sex ... "
To be completely humourless on this last observation (this thread already has much humour ... to Mr Wombat's horror), I would say Francois that there is at least one other quite good reason: to visit old friends who ~ for good or not ~ live in Pattaya/Jomtien.
And most assuredly I do not have sex with any of them, even though they constantly beg for it.

[Beachlover]

Heh... this thread is even more off topic than the last. Goes to show you can't control what's natural.

[francois]

" ...The only reason to visit Pattaya is for the sex ... "
To be completely humourless on this last observation (this thread already has much humour ... to Mr Wombat's horror), I would say Francois that there is at least one other quite good reason: to visit old friends who ~ for good or not ~ live in Pattaya/Jomtien.
And most assuredly I do not have sex with any of them, even though they constantly beg for it.

Very true, Smiles, I do enjoy meeting and greeting old friends and a good reason to visit Pattaya/Thailand. But "paperboy" will be new to the scene and likely does not have friends to rejoin and will just have to be satisfied with beaucoup sex. For that, Pattaya is the place.

Oh, yes...other than being a sex tourist oneself, one of the only other reasons to visit Pattaya might include visiting friends who are sex tourists or expats.

Fuck Face your constant barbs against sex tourism grow tiresome in the extreme. If your country educated the population properly and provided them with decent economic opportunity perhaps so many of your poorest citizens wouldn't become prostitutes. Prostitution is practically institutionalized in Thailand and the majority of it involves Thais customers. It's cheap, easy and readily available. If there are people selling there are always going to be people buying. It's not called the oldest profession for nothing. So as long as Thais and Thailand allow it to continue demand will follow supply.
Until things change do us all a favor and shut your cake hole.

Fuck Face your constant barbs against sex tourism grow tiresome in the extreme. If your country educated the population properly and provided them with decent economic opportunity perhaps so many of your poorest citizens wouldn't become prostitutes. Prostitution is practically institutionalized in Thailand and the majority of it involves Thais customers. It's cheap, easy and readily available. If there are people selling there are always going to be people buying. It's not called the oldest profession for nothing. So as long as Thais and Thailand allow it to continue demand will follow supply.
Until things change do us all a favor and shut your cake hole.

You obviously know little about Thailand the factors that drive prostitution here. There are roughly 150 countries in the world that are poorer than Thailand -- yet how many of them are favorite destinations for social misfits and sex addicts like you?

PS: why don't you do us a favor and simply use the "ignore" button if you are so outraged and offended by the posts of a single member?

You obviously know little about Thailand the factors that drive prostitution here.OK I'm ready to listen. Why is Thailand Asia's brothel in your opinion?

[yedo111]

I think a lot of tourists avoid Pattaya , maybe they're tired of moneyboys or tired of russians .

So much more to see up north , you should try it one day.

[bucknaway]

What do I like about Pattaya?

I like that I can rent a very nice place near the beach, so many good eating places are in walking distance or a 10 baht ride away. I also enjoy the mall shopping. Pattaya is my favorite place to go clothes shopping in the malls. Chiang Mai is my favorite place to buy luggage, Pattaya is my favorite place to buy clothes, Bangkok is my favorite place to buy briefs, Phuket is my favorite place to buy Sport Shirts.

Another thing I enjoy about Pattaya is being able to so cute guys from all over the world wearing next to nothing while strolling up and down the beach.

Where Bangkok is more of a cement jungle of hazzardous walkways, shoulder to shoulder movement along the walkways filled with pushy vendors, touts and tuktuk transport who become transport bandits; Pattaya is easier. Easier to navigate. Easier to relax and flirt. Easier to window shop. Easier to sit and have a friendly conversation with other and if you want sex, well surprise, surprise, you can have that there too.

I am lucky because when I think of Thailand I long for the easy days, the exciting nights, the tasty food, fun shopping, comfortable lodging the entertaining and wondrous culture and the cute guys.

[kittyboy]

Why are gays and others staying away from Thailand?
Some of the reason could be the bad press it has been getting lately.

I saw this article in the Wall Street Journal. I doubt this is representative of the experience that most tourists would have on a trip to thailand but this kind of thing scares the hell out of people...Not me though I just booked my next trip.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopStories (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703734504575125263805678560.html?m od=WSJASIA_hpp_MIDDLETopStories)

[Beachlover]

Shite... so they actually went ahead with that crazy human blood plan.

I also love Pattaya Dears. There is no reason to avoid Pattaya.

I love eating seafood every day, fresh coconut juice, relaxing on the beach watching other people or reading a book, having a massage, getting my nails done, chatting to people, drooping off laundry and having it come back so clean and fresh, the nice smiles from most people, street stall food, the convenience of 7/11s everywhere, driving to sattahip or rayong for getaway, sitting at panorama people watching, sitting in sunee people watching, going to as many go go bars as possible, long pissy nights on the booze, nights in front of TV or on condo balcony, the comfort of my condo, sexy motorbike guys, shopping malls, junk food, cheap CD DVD, seafood market in Naklua, cruising Buddha Hill for trade, Pakboongloyfa, Sansuk, Various favourite go gos, various favorite bars, waling in Jomtien beach at night, helping others, going to temple,the weather, seeing monks on daily alms outside condo, my cleaner and maid, Big C, leisurely breakfasts, scuba diving, friends, non friends, fucks, regular fucks, never fuck agains, those roving kebab sellers, chirpy bargirls, tragic ladyboys, pancakes at midnight, nong nooch and the list goes on, darlings.

[Diec]

I also love Pattaya Dears. There is no reason to avoid Pattaya.

I love eating seafood every day, fresh coconut juice, relaxing on the beach watching other people or reading a book, having a massage, getting my nails done, chatting to people, drooping off laundry and having it come back so clean and fresh, the nice smiles from most people, street stall food, the convenience of 7/11s everywhere, driving to sattahip or rayong for getaway, sitting at panorama people watching, sitting in sunee people watching, going to as many go go bars as possible, long pissy nights on the booze, nights in front of TV or on condo balcony, the comfort of my condo, sexy motorbike guys, shopping malls, junk food, cheap CD DVD, seafood market in Naklua, cruising Buddha Hill for trade, Pakboongloyfa, Sansuk, Various favourite go gos, various favorite bars, waling in Jomtien beach at night, helping others, going to temple,the weather, seeing monks on daily alms outside condo, my cleaner and maid, Big C, leisurely breakfasts, scuba diving, friends, non friends, fucks, regular fucks, never fuck agains, those roving kebab sellers, chirpy bargirls, tragic ladyboys, pancakes at midnight, nong nooch and the list goes on, darlings.

What you just described is your ambition to get out of bed everyday? I can't imagine living the rest of my life like that. Maybe for a week while I'm on holiday, but doing that boring shit for the rest of my life? I don't know.

[kittyboy]

I also love Pattaya Dears. There is no reason to avoid Pattaya.

I love eating seafood every day, fresh coconut juice, relaxing on the beach watching other people or reading a book, having a massage, getting my nails done, chatting to people, drooping off laundry and having it come back so clean and fresh, the nice smiles from most people, street stall food, the convenience of 7/11s everywhere, driving to sattahip or rayong for getaway, sitting at panorama people watching, sitting in sunee people watching, going to as many go go bars as possible, long pissy nights on the booze, nights in front of TV or on condo balcony, the comfort of my condo, sexy motorbike guys, shopping malls, junk food, cheap CD DVD, seafood market in Naklua, cruising Buddha Hill for trade, Pakboongloyfa, Sansuk, Various favourite go gos, various favorite bars, waling in Jomtien beach at night, helping others, going to temple,the weather, seeing monks on daily alms outside condo, my cleaner and maid, Big C, leisurely breakfasts, scuba diving, friends, non friends, fucks, regular fucks, never fuck agains, those roving kebab sellers, chirpy bargirls, tragic ladyboys, pancakes at midnight, nong nooch and the list goes on, darlings.

What you just described is your ambition to get out of bed everyday? I can't imagine living the rest of my life like that. Maybe for a week while I'm on holiday, but doing that boring shit for the rest of my life? I don't know.

Who gives a fuck as to why the guy gets out of bed every morning. It is not your place to judge other people actions by you own internal standards.

What you just described is your ambition to get out of bed everyday? I can't imagine living the rest of my life like that. Maybe for a week while I'm on holiday, but doing that boring shit for the rest of my life? I don't know.

Well, Sweetie, that is your choice Hon, so go n get catty with someone else pet!

I am in Pattaya for 1 month on and 2 months off Darl, and hope I dont run into you darl....

"You obviously know little about Thailand the factors that drive prostitution here. There are roughly 150 countries in the world that are poorer than Thailand -- yet how many of them are favorite destinations for social misfits and sex addicts like you?"

Well then since you are obviously the expert on all things Thai please do explain what drives prostitution, especially considering that non-Thais make up only 10% of the punters? I'd dearly like to know how it is all the fault of sex tourists.


"PS: why don't you do us a favor and simply use the "ignore" button if you are so outraged and offended by the posts of a single member?"
On the contrary, you neither outrage me or offend me. You are however tedious and tiresome. One does wonder why someone such as yourself who is rubbed raw by sex tourists would spend so much of their time posting on a board where so much is written for and by sex tourists. Unless of course you purposely set out to outrage and offend. I think this speaks more to your pathology than mine, of which you know nothing about.