Questions of "face".

[Impulse]

With the threads on wai and foot pointing,I was wondering about the face question.
I think it's overblown much of the time,and with comercial sex it's all about money, so maybe no face loss involved....or maybe there is.
Example : Punter enters a bar,and while talking to the mama-san a host asks if he will buy a drink for her.A resounding "no" by the punter and the host slinks away.Who loses face? The host,mama-san,or the punter? In this example,by the end of the night the punter has bought about ten drinks from this bar,so maybe some face has been restored.

Mamasans deserve no face when they beg for drinks.

[cdnmatt]

If you're a mamasan in a gay go-go bar, you're probably not too worried about the small things like that.

But from my experiences at least, face is quite important. If you ever get a Thai pissed off at you, it's probably wise to ensure he walks away from the altercation thinking he "won". If he feels that he was disrespected or lost face at the end, there's a chance he's going to be 10 times as pissed off as he originally was, which is never a good thing. This is the point where rationality completely disappears, and the knives come out.

[Impulse]

I was at a girl bar because they had American football playing on their screen. This farang left this girl and she absolutely lost it.She was crying hysterically and broke three glasses.I thought she was gonna throw a glass at me,I don't know what the guy did or said,but he must have made her lose face,lol.
The next night I was at another outside bar around the corner and I saw a Thai jump out of an suv and it looked like he broke this young fatang's arm with a stick.He and his friends fled into a hotel and later it appeared his arm was seriously damaged. That threw out the theory that Thais arn't violent as far as I was concerned.I retreated to my room and locked the door behind me.

[Beachlover]

Sounds like Walking St.

[Beachlover]

But from my experiences at least, face is quite important. If you ever get a Thai pissed off at you, it's probably wise to ensure he walks away from the altercation thinking he "won". If he feels that he was disrespected or lost face at the end, there's a chance he's going to be 10 times as pissed off as he originally was, which is never a good thing. This is the point where rationality completely disappears, and the knives come out.

Totally true... It's not so much about letting them think "they've won"... it's about giving them an avenue out without them losing face. When you're in an altercation/dispute with someone and want them to back down you always give them a way to do so without losing face.

Same goes with when you're trying to get someone to do something differently, or want them to cooperate as you correct their f*ck up. Always a better outcome if you help them keep face. It applies in the West as well.

[cdnmatt]

Same goes with when you're trying to get someone to do something differently, or want them to cooperate as you correct their f*ck up. Always a better outcome if you help them keep face. It applies in the West as well.

True enough. Except in the West if someone loses face, they generally just get bitchy, and post about it on Facebook. In Thailand, there's a always a chance they'll crack your head open. :-)

[Beachlover]

In Thailand, there's a always a chance they'll crack your head open. :-)

Well yes... that does raise the stakes a bit :-)

[Beachlover]

This is a great article about "face" in Thailand:

http://www.notthenation.com/pages/news/ ... php?id=182 (http://www.notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=182)

Samitivej Performs WorldтАЩs First Face-Saving Surgery

Millions around world given new hope after local man survives groundbreaking procedure


BANGKOK - In what is being hailed as a major medical and cultural breakthrough, doctors at Samitivej Hospital have miraculously saved a manтАЩs face, 23 days after he lost it in an argument with his wife.

The success of the marathon 16-hour surgery will give hope to the millions around the world who have suddenly or unexpectedly lost face and failed to regain it in the hours, days or even years since, as well as to those who suffer from habitual face loss.

The groundbreaking surgery may also have a significant cultural and psychological impact, especially in Asia, where the World Health Organization estimates that more than 40 percent of men and women live their entire lives in fear of losing face.

Thailand has long been known as a leader in face loss prevention. By teaching its youth to never question authority and hierarchy, to avoid confrontation and embarrassment at all costs, and to never stick out from the crowd, Thailand has reduced face loss to record lows in the past two decades. But now, SamitivejтАЩs medical breakthrough will also make the country a pioneer in face loss treatment and recovery.

The successful patient, Anuchai Witinasachawik, a 45-year-old accountant from Bangkok, checked in to Samitivej yesterday morning complaining of anxiety. Further examination by doctors revealed that he was suffering from тАЬextreme sulkiness, bouts of passive aggressive behavior, such as the silent treatment, and unannounced, unexplained absences from workтАЭ тАУ all classic symptoms of face loss.

Further probing by doctors revealed that three weeks ago, at a dinner party he hosted, he had had an argument with his wife over where they had vacationed during Songkran 2002. After calling his wife a тАЬbuffaloтАЭ in front of shocked colleagues, Anuchai reportedly stormed off to prove he тАЬwas right.тАЭ Looking through an old photo album, he was shocked to discover that they had, in fact, gone to Phu Kradung as his wife had said.

Having pinpointed the cause of AnuchaiтАЩs face loss, doctors began with laser surgery, removing the emotional scarring associated with the argument, and then eliminating the brain cells containing both his memories of that night and his tendency toward over-sensitivity. Finally, using cutting-edge facial reconstruction techniques, doctors implanted a permanent smile of AnuchaiтАЩs face.

тАЬHis face is 100 percent saved,тАЬ doctors announced. тАЬHe can return to his wife and workplace and function like a normal, emotionally healthy adult instead of a child. WhatтАЩs more, it is highly unlikely he will ever lose face again because he will always be smiling.тАЭ

http://www.notthenation.com/pages/news/ ... php?id=182 (http://www.notthenation.com/pages/news/getnews.php?id=182)

[X] Sawatdee Gay Thailand is the perfect training ground for face-maintenance,

"the desire to project an image of strength and capability, or conversely, to avoid projecting an image of incapability, weakness, or foolishness." http://www.beyondintractability.org/images/aha/face_diagram1.gif