Vatican City

[Beachlover]

Hehehe... It's so ironic the vatican denounces homosexuality so much when there are so many homosexual guys in its ranks.

When the blog, gayboythailand.com was up, the blogger displayed visitor stats. Once interesting stat showed the most visits per capita came from the relatively small Vatican City.

-------
http://www.smh.com.au/world/vatican-sac ... -pp1a.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/vatican-sacks-chorister-amid-gay-sex-scandal-20100305-pp1a.html)

Vatican sacks chorister amid gay sex scandal


JOHN HOOPER
March 6, 2010

ROME: The Vatican has been rocked by a sex scandal reaching into the Pope's household after a chorister was sacked for allegedly procuring male prostitutes for a papal gentleman-in-waiting.

Police caught Angelo Balducci, a Gentleman of His Holiness, on a wiretap allegedly negotiating with Thomas Chinedu Ehiem, 29, a Vatican chorister, over the specific physical details of men he wanted brought to him.

Transcripts suggest that numerous men may have been procured for Mr Balducci, at least one of whom was studying for the priesthood.

The explosive claims about Mr Balducci's private life have caused grave embarrassment to the Vatican, which has yet to publicly comment on the affair.

Mr Balducci was arrested on February 10, suspected of involvement in widespread corruption. A senior Italian government official, he is alleged to have to steered public works contracts towards favoured bidders. He has not been charged.

It was during this investigation in Florence that wiretaps revealed his alleged sexual activity.

In one conversation, Mr Ehiem tells Mr Balducci: ''I saw your call when I was in the Vatican, because I was doing rehearsals тАж in the choir тАж in St Peter's.'' He then suggests Mr Balducci meet a man whom he describes as ''two metres tall тАж 97 kilos тАж aged 33, completely active''.

Since 1995, Mr Balducci has been a member of one of the world's most exclusive fraternities - the Gentlemen of His Holiness, or Papal Gentlemen, the ceremonial ushers of the papal household. In the words of a 1968 ordinance, they are expected to ''distinguish themselves for the good of souls and the glory of the name of the Lord''.

Italian press reports say that Mr Ehiem, a professional chorister born in Nigeria and a member of the choir that sings in St Peter's when the Pope is not officiating, lost his job on Wednesday after details of the investigation became known to the Vatican.

There were conflicting accounts of how the Vatican might respond. One source said there was no provision for the dismissal of a Papal Gentleman. Another said: ''We shall wait for the judiciary's definitive verdict.''

Guardian News & Media
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http://www.smh.com.au/world/vatican-sac ... -pp1a.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/vatican-sacks-chorister-amid-gay-sex-scandal-20100305-pp1a.html)

at least thats one area of sexuality that they are qualified to comment on....

[Thai Dyed]

This case is weird as is almost everything in the Vatican. It seems this guy was being investigated for corruption over contracts when the sexual activity came to notice. The Vatican City has one of the lowest age of consent laws for sex in the world, which it sets at 12, and even if it involves a "relationship of dependence" as in that between a teacher and a student, the age of consent is set at 15.

Maybe if you work for the Pope you must take additional vows such as those concerning chastity, but there seems to be no secular law that has been violated here. It's all too bizarre to contemplate as is everything that comes out of the Pope's mouth.

Regarding the laws of Vatican City:

"There are no criminal laws against same-sex sexual activity. There is an equal age of consent set at 12 years of age since 1929, when the Vatican City introduced the same law as the Codic Penal from Italy. When there is a relationship of dependence (like teacher/student) the age of consent is 15 years.

However, the Vatican City is a Roman Catholic theocratic city state and thus homosexuality and cross-dressing are both strongly frowned upon by the Holy See and those working there. Thus any public displays of affection or public acknowledgment of homosexuality or cross-dressing is likely prohibited or taboo."

[attachment=0:2gegyvdk]Pope.jpg[/attachment:2gegyvdk]

[maisoui]

Nice Bacon.

Someone ought to open up a boy bar in Vatican City filled with LEGAL twelve year-old boys. That would be the end of Pattaya as we know it.

[Thai Dyed]

Someone ought to open up a boy bar in Vatican City filled with LEGAL twelve year-old boys. That would be the end of Pattaya as we know it.

Wow! What a fantastic idea Fuck-Face! I can see it now:
The bar boys could be dressed in those cute altar-boy outfits serving the finest vintage altar wines with Jeez-It communion wafer snacks.
Instead of waiing when they wait on customers they could quote catchy bible phrases like "This is my body" and "This is my blood" or some other appropriate body fluid if "blood" sounds too ikky.
You're a fucking genius Fuck-Face! Have to hand it to you!

[attachment=2:2ux3lape]Vatican City Bar Boys.jpg[/attachment:2ux3lape]
[attachment=1:2ux3lape]Jeez-It Communion Wafers.jpg[/attachment:2ux3lape]
[attachment=0:2ux3lape]Padre Vinnie Vino.jpg[/attachment:2ux3lape]

[Beachlover]

Regarding the laws of Vatican City:

"There are no criminal laws against same-sex sexual activity. There is an equal age of consent set at 12 years of age since 1929, when the Vatican City introduced the same law as the Codic Penal from Italy. When there is a relationship of dependence (like teacher/student) the age of consent is 15 years.

However, the Vatican City is a Roman Catholic theocratic city state and thus homosexuality and cross-dressing are both strongly frowned upon by the Holy See and those working there. Thus any public displays of affection or public acknowledgment of homosexuality or cross-dressing is likely prohibited or taboo."

[attachment=0:12zdzunc]Pope.jpg[/attachment:12zdzunc]

Are you serious?

I googled it and it's actually true LOL. Unbelievable. That is just f*cked.

So with all the abuse in Ireland and the States they were just doing what would have been legal in Vatican City.

[quote="Thai Dyed"]
"There are no criminal laws against same-sex sexual activity. There is an equal age of consent set at 12 years of age since 1929, when the Vatican City introduced the same law as the Codic Penal from Italy. When there is a relationship of dependence (like teacher/student) the age of consent is 15 years.

However, the Vatican City is a Roman Catholic theocratic city state and thus homosexuality and cross-dressing are both strongly frowned upon by the Holy See and those working there. Thus any public displays of affection or public acknowledgment of homosexuality or cross-dressing is likely prohibited or taboo."[\quote]

Hmmmm, its own laws and no police to ever investigate, anyway. For how many centuries? A society of 100% male homophobes. What could be hidden there?

A Google news search reveals the Catholic Church is racked by gay sex scandals. Now it is also German, Irish and Mexican boys just these past weeks. I'm sure there's more to 'come' And there is what once a 19 yo Thai boy told me about his prior 8 years.

I'm with Sin├йad O'Connor (www.irishcentral.com/story/ent/amyandre ... 10622.html (http://www.irishcentral.com/story/ent/amyandrews_gossipgirl/sinead-oconnor-says-christ-would-burn-down-the-vatican----and-she-would-help-him-86310622.html)) on what she says about the NA church trying to get NA parishioners, not the Vatican, to "pick up the tab". But I think the decent thing would be they just disintegrate themselves. Face it, they may have to. Would the world miss a thing if they just disappeared? Championing homophobia and gay hatred isn't the decent thing. The religion is a farce, historically invalid, an astro-theologic fairy tale stolen from Africa. WHEN is this matter ever going to come to light?

[Beachlover]

But I think the decent thing would be they just disintegrate themselves. Face it, they may have to. Would the world miss a thing if they just disappeared? Championing homophobia and gay hatred isn't the decent thing. The religion is a farce, historically invalid

Just a wonderful suggestion. I think it would be fantastic if they just wound down and disbanded. I mean, seriously, the organisation just adds no value.

It's literally a waste of space. Everyday I walk past these big old churches sitting on these multi-million dollar plots of land in the middle of the city and just think... man, what a waste of space. Better to convert into an office building, block of apartments, restaurant, shopping arcade, function venue... anything but a church.

You know if they sold all that land they might just be able to compensate all the victims of horrific abuse who are still alive. Then all the priests and other useless people who couldn't make a living in real life could go and be immigration officers, parking inspectors or some other mundane brainless job. I generalise of course.

I mean, seriously, the organisation just adds no value. I generalise of course.The Recording Angel tells me that you have added very little value to anyone else's life Beachlover.

[Beachlover]

I mean, seriously, the organisation just adds no value. I generalise of course.The Recording Angel tells me that you have added very little value to anyone else's life Beachlover.

That's because it's a voice inside your delusional head. I certainly add more value than a priest who puts his hand out for donations every weekend. Even the toilet cleaner adds more value than him.

[Thai Dyed]

I certainly add more value than a priest who puts his hand out for donations every weekend. Even the toilet cleaner adds more value than him.

Beachlover, you may be the only member on this board that adds absolutely nothing of value. You are a tiresome fool imposing your compulsive logorrhea producing nothing more than terminal boredom. And you call that adding value? Holy shit!

[attachment=0:qanxlcm8]Listening to Beachlover.jpg[/attachment:qanxlcm8]

That's because it's a voice inside your delusional head. I certainly add more value than a priest who puts his hand out for donations every weekend. Even the toilet cleaner adds more value than him.When was the last time you went out among the disadvantaged of your city, feeding clothing and sheltering the poor? Volunteers from St Vincent de Paul and the Salvation Army do it every night. How do you think they are funded? Or perhaps you think the poor have brought it on themselves and don't deserve even the little they receive.

Sex Abuse Scandal Surrounds Pope's Brother's Choir

Friday, March 05, 2010

BERLIN тАФ An ever-widening sexual abuse scandal involving Germany's Roman Catholic Church spilled into the heart of Pope Benedict XVI's homeland Friday when a former member of a boy's choir led for 30 years by his brother claimed he was a victim.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,588129,00.html

[Beachlover]

Sex Abuse Scandal Surrounds Pope's Brother's Choir

Friday, March 05, 2010

BERLIN тАФ An ever-widening sexual abuse scandal involving Germany's Roman Catholic Church spilled into the heart of Pope Benedict XVI's homeland Friday when a former member of a boy's choir led for 30 years by his brother claimed he was a victim.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,588129,00.html

Brilliant... Let the robed up f*cksticks deal with this one.

http://www.news.com.au/world/pope-meets ... 5840228179 (http://www.news.com.au/world/pope-meets-paedophilia-scandal-leader/story-e6frfkyi-1225840228179)

[Beachlover]

When was the last time you went out among the disadvantaged of your city, feeding clothing and sheltering the poor?

Never. I volunteer my time to a non-profit empowering disadvantaged (i.e. f*cked up) youth. More importantly, I provide employment to hard working people who contribute to the economy to prosper.


How do you think they are funded?

What? You mean to say the dollars collected at church all go to worthy causes? Not to the priest's salary? The upkeep of the property? Paying out victims of church abuse? Running "all about jesus" campaigns to tell people what they'll go to hell for? Building big f*cking multi-million dollar happy clappy centres in the middle of Rosebery (inner-city Sydney suburb) where none of the locals wants one?

[Thai Dyed]

Abuse??? I thought getting a quick wank or BJ was one of the benefits of being an altar boy or singing in the choir!
You could look at it as a "value added" kind of thing Beachlover. And anyway, "What God hath joined, let no man put asunder!"
[attachment=0:33d47vxw]What God Hath Joined - Priest Boy.jpg[/attachment:33d47vxw]

Or perhaps you think the poor have brought it on themselves and don't deserve even the little they receive.
The other day a shocking picture emerged when Michelle Obama went to a soup kitchen in Washington, DC.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_7gV4Wr6Pczs/SbPXtK8NbEI/AAAAAAAAAsg/ef3vGv-TcE0/s320/obamamichmiriamsappablomartnzmonsiv.jpg
Michelle serves mushroom risotto and broccoli!

What was shocking was a photo of one of the homeless men she was serving taking a picture of her with his cellphone. Conservatives were outraged. At a time when Wall Street executives are being forced to give up their private planes, limousines, bathroom renovations and multimillion dollar bonuses, the idea that a homeless man has been allowed to hold on to his cellphone while others are making sacrifices is more than we can take.

"If this unidentified meal recipient is too poor to buy his own food, how does he afford a cellphone?" wrote the Los Angeles Times' Andrew Malcolm. "And if he is homeless, where do they send the cellphone bills?" Kathryn Jean Lopez pointed out that contrary to what many people think, the poor are actually very rich, which explains a lot. Michelle Malkin castigated the homeless man for "ruining what was supposed to be a sob story photo op of the compassionate Mrs. O catering to the downtrodden" and speculated that his phone bills are probably sent to Acorn.

This is not the first time Ms. Shaidle, has taken on the menace of the poor. "The so-called poor have cars and cable tv and free medical," she wrote last year. "They live in America in the 21st century, where school is free and libraries are free and a bus ticket to a better town costs less than a bag of crack. If they're 'poor' it's because they were too lazy and stupid to a) finish high school and/or b) keep their pants on. Jesus had something to say about folks who didn't properly manage their money or other people's." Although I am not familiar with Jesus' admonitions against poor accounting practices, she has a point. Instead of waging class war against the wealthy who worked hard for their money, we should be attacking the poor. After a lot of unsuspecting investors were lured by the poor into putting their hard-earned money into credit defaults swaps and tricked into giving deadbeats subprime mortgages, which ruined our entire economy, haven't poor people done enough harm to this country?

I can't tell you how angry it makes me to think about extremely rude poor people all across this country talking very loudly on their cellphones in soup kitchens and unemployment offices, whining about all their financial problems so everyone can hear. I'm glad someone is finally speaking out about it. And while these poor people were rudely broadcasting their tales of woe to everyone within earshot, guess what they were eating? Mushroom risotto and Broccoli! Isn't gruel good enough for poor people anymore? Those poor people are eating better than I am. Is it really fair that I should have to eat the Pork Brains in Milk Gravy Mrs. Swift served up the other night to cut down on grocery bills and reduce my cholesterol intake, while these poor people are eating like kings?

In memory of Al Weisel (1963-2010), the the faux conservative "Jon Swift"

Full version: http://jonswift.blogspot.com/

I provide employment to hard working people who contribute to the economy to prosper.I'm more interested in how you add value to the lives of to those who can't find work, have run away from abusive parents and so on. By the way what is the minimum education you require of your hard-working employees? Left school at 15? Or university graduate? My guess is that you only give jobs to the sort of people who would have no problem finding a job anyway - hardly "adding value".
What? You mean to say the dollars collected at church all go to worthy causes? Not to the priest's salary? The upkeep of the property? Paying out victims of church abuse? Running "all about jesus" campaigns to tell people what they'll go to hell for? Building big f*cking multi-million dollar happy clappy centres in the middle of Rosebery (inner-city Sydney suburb) where none of the locals wants one?Is this still part of your "don't add any value" argument? When I told the story of the Prodigal Son during my earthly ministry you were exactly the sort of self-righteous prig who I thought would be filling the role of the older son.

Religion and unemployment: God help the jobless.

Churches are helping the victims of recession

Mark Godshall is a pastor at Bayside Covenant Church in Granite Bay, a suburb of Sacramento in California. Last year his church, which has a congregation of 11,000, started four-day workshops and weekly programmes for the growing number of jobless in its flock, as well as others from the surrounding area where unemployment exceeds 12%. тАЬItтАЩs in these moments when you donтАЩt have work when you can grow and make the changes that need to be made in your life,тАЭ Mr Godshall insists gamely.

Although gaining new members would be an obvious benefit for the churches, those involved say it is not the primary goal. тАЬWeтАЩre here to provide spiritual support and encouragement at a time when people can experience feelings of hopelessness and worthlessness,тАЭ says Cindy Hall, a minister at the 1,000-member First Baptist Church in Sanford, North Carolina, which started a support group for its jobless congregants last July. Employers often post job openings with her first rather than in the local newspaper, she says. тАЬI guess they know the kind of people our programme attracts tend to be principled and hard workers,тАЭ she says. When the temptation is to stay in bed and watch the soaps, тАЬthese are people who regularly come to meetings and listen to devotionals.тАЭ Amen to that. http://www.economist.com/world/united-s ... d=15549292 (http://www.economist.com/world/united-states/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15549292)

http://www.pattayadb.com/images_post/44_Pattaya_Jomtien_Beach_2.gif
Next year in Jerusalem!

[Beachlover]

I'm more interested in how you add value to the lives of to those who can't find work, have run away from abusive parents and so on.

What am I? A charity? I volunteer my time, probably much more than the average person my age. I also pay obscene taxes of which a third goes to welfare. I don't need to justify anything to you.


By the way what is the minimum education you require of your hard-working employees? Left school at 15? Or university graduate?

Nil. I don't even keep track of who's got a degree who doesn't. I don't know about early school leavers but I'm pretty sure I've got some without degrees or tertiary qualifications. It's pretty irrelevant to me. I've met plenty of Master Degrees I wouldn't hire for $1/hr.


My guess is that you only give jobs to the sort of people who would have no problem finding a job anyway - hardly "adding value".

Of course. Why would I want a useless dickhead who won't pull their weight?

This shows how much you know about wealth creation. No wonder you're down there pitying the poor like it's the ONLY noble thing you can do.

So by your logic, an employer who only the most desperate would want to work for because he pays peanuts and treats them like shit actually adds more value than someone who strives to offer great working conditions, learning growth and development and rewarding pay?

Get back under your robe and stay there. You're a waste of space.

No wonder you hate religion. Apart from holding up a mirror to yourself to show what a prig you are, my followers value attributes for which you have no time - compassion, mercy and forgiveness. Your values are entirely materialistic.

[Thai Dyed]

Your values are entirely materialistic.

Miso, what do expect from someone who modeled his business practices on earlier like-minded ideals?

[attachment=0:2z238oy6]Beachlover business model.jpg[/attachment:2z238oy6]

http://www.au.edu/images/stories/abac/abaclogo.gif
Labor omnia vincit

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3220/2881547669_9f1bd92e84.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_omnia_vincit

[Thai Dyed]

The poem was written in support of Augustus Caesar's "Back to the land" policy, aimed at encouraging more Romans to become farmers.


"Stop", you're a fucking genius! Gotta hand it to you. I'm all for sending Beachlover out to work on the farm. No one would question the wisdom of that and those Coolie Hats are all the rage in Oz these days.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001A6 ... XWPPQAV0BG (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001A67NNU/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B000PQG6DO&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1EQJCGC5VSXWPPQAV0BG)

[attachment=0:1hf2u1dj]Beachlover in Coolie Hat.jpg[/attachment:1hf2u1dj]
"It never troubles the wolf how many the sheep may be." -Virgil

What am I? A charity?No, that's one of the roles of the church, the organisation Beachlover claims adds no value.
I don't need to justify anything to you."No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. "
- John Donne (a Christian)

[Beachlover]

Right... All this vague BS and you still have no logical answer to why you think a business adds no value to society unless they offer to hire most useless and unemployable people in the workforce.

Well that makes sense. You'd rather tell people what's right or wrong and make them feel guilty about it than have them think for themselves.

[Beachlover]

No wonder you hate religion. Apart from holding up a mirror to yourself to show what a prig you are, my followers value attributes for which you have no time - compassion, mercy and forgiveness. Your values are entirely materialistic.

Who are you to tell me what my values aren't? I have plenty of compassion At the right time and place. At work, we're a competitive organisation striving to do the best for our clients so yes, I sack anyone who doesn't pull their weight. I have plenty of time for compassion with my mates, volunteer work and other parts of my life.

I suppose you think successful business people are all driven by money and materialism. You'd be very wrong. You could hand me a billion dollars today and I'd still love doing what I do now. It ain't just about the money.

But you know what is? Hillsong:

[youtube:34t3dkhs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcmLAtn3aro[/youtube:34t3dkhs]

[Beachlover]

Haha... "Don't be afraid to become a priest"

http://www.news.com.au/world/dont-be-af ... 5841163936 (http://www.news.com.au/world/dont-be-afraid-to-become-priests-says-pope-benedict-xvi/story-e6frfkyi-1225841163936)

http://www.smh.com.au/world/german-cath ... -qa58.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/german-catholics-fume-at-popes-silence-20100316-qa58.html)

http://www.smh.com.au/world/calls-for-c ... -q9ql.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/calls-for-cardinal-to-resign-over-sex-abuse-secrecy-20100315-q9ql.html)

Right... All this vague BS and you still have no logical answer to why you think a business adds no value to society unless they offer to hire most useless and unemployable people in the workforce. Well that makes sense. You'd rather tell people what's right or wrong and make them feel guilty about it than have them think for themselves.My sole interest in this thread is your original assertion that religion adds no value. All the rest is commentary on your self-righteousness. I don't need to tell My people what is right and wrong. As My agent provocateur Christopher Hitchens points out, people know innately what is right and wrong without any need for religion. Defining that is not the role of My Body, the church. Religion exists that people may become whole (a.k.a. "holy") and it reminds them that "sin" is a distraction from pursuing that. So promiscuous sodomites, even those who only lust in their hearts by visiting go-go bars in Thailand with their long-term boyfriend and not taking off any of the boys, are distracting themselves from seeking holiness or, if you like, committing a sin. Self-righteousness is also a sin, by the way. You must die to self.

[Beachlover]

Ok... let's go back to that then. Take my comment literally and of course you'd be right. I've always thought religion is at its most destructive when people take it literally: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-a ... -i58p.html (http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/god-is-good-but-just-be-sure-not-to-take-him-too-literally-20091109-i58p.html)

Do you really think religion adds more value than it takes away? Do you think the compassion it delivers in its charitable work (when this "charity" isn't dealt out with ulterior motives) couldn't be done by non-religious organisations as it already is in many cases? And what about the costs? The destruction of of people's ability to think for themselves? Generations of ridiculous guilt and heavy minds. The abuse and hate. Not to mention the enormous cost of all that land and labour. What a huge waste.

You're not telling people what's right or wrong? You say the word "sin" three times. Do you not think people can think for themselves? Develop their own principles of right and wrong and values to live by? Isn't that a little healthier than having it forced on you and sneaking around it?

What about this bit? " Religion exists that people may become whole (a.k.a. "holy") and it reminds them that "sin" is a distraction from pursuing that." What's your definition of "whole"? How can you say you're not telling people what's right and wrong when you define what a sin is and tell them sins are wrong?

Christianity is just unnecessary. It's a few stories (which on their own have some merit) on which this massive organisation has been built to take it literally in a very destructive and wasteful way.

Why needs it?

[Beachlover]

This takes the cake: http://www.news.com.au/world/abuse-hotl ... 5841638896 (http://www.news.com.au/world/abuse-hotline-at-german-church/story-e6frfkyi-1225841638896)

So f*cked up they've setup a call centre to deal with it. I bet half the male population who went to church as kids are now phoning in.

Every organisation has its f*ck ups... but the fact the church deliberately and systematically covered it up again and again is outrageous. It goes right up to the top. How could they possibly think it's right not to bring this sort of shit to justice? Why would they cover it up? Self preservation is all that mattered... it's an organisation with NO integrity at all and a lot of sheep...

And you know this because the only time they bring it to light, apologise or take even a tiny step towards accountability is when they are absolutely forced to: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/ca ... 5842075634 (http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/cardinal-sean-brady-apologises-with-all-his-heart-over-child-abuse-row/story-e6frfku0-1225842075634)

Ok... let's go back to that then. ... Why needs it?You should consider taking up Zen. There's a very active modern Zen group in Sydney - http://www.zenopencircle.org.au/

Then you can think these things through for yourself and take ownership of the answers, should you find any.

Pope writes open letter in attempt to quell paedophile row

Benedict uses St Patrick's Day address to urge Irish people to read message with 'an open heart and in a spirit of faith'

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/17/pope-benedict-child-sex-abuse

[Beachlover]

Ok... let's go back to that then. ... Why needs it?You should consider taking up Zen. There's a very active modern Zen group in Sydney - http://www.zenopencircle.org.au/

Then you can think these things through for yourself and take ownership of the answers, should you find any.

No, I don't need it. I'm quite happy with my life. The question was directed at you, the religious nut who can't justify his beliefs or the negative effects his organisation has on people.

No, I don't need it. I'm quite happy with my life.I was hoping that, away from the coal-face, you might find something that would take your thinking outside the square, that you might be able to re-work a personal mission statement.
:idea:

I note how you do keep shifting the goal-posts in each post. In a recent one there was a very subtle move from stating that religion adds no value to stating that on balance religion doesn't add value because religion doesn't add as much value as it takes away. That's the sort of propaganda trick popular with Goebbels and other politcians but it doesn't really encourage those you hope to debate in your intellectual rigour. But then, as you make clear, your interest is not in debate but in polemics.

[Beachlover]

My stance is that christianity as a net effect adds no value. It takes away more than it gives.

Rework a personal mission statement? Think outside the square? You assume I don't do these things already. You don't become a successful business person and (hopefully soon) freedom in your twenties without thinking outside the square or taking regular breaks from the coal face to build your vision.

What are you doing as a christian anyway? Are you against condoms? Do you believe homosexuality is an abomination and gay guys go to hell? Are you really that stupid to believe in creationism? Noah's Ark? Masturbating is a sin? Science is insignificant and unimportant? Have fun living that way.

He's jerking your chain, Beachlover. Just playing games with you.

[Beachlover]

I know... I know... I suspect he is homintern.

[Beachlover]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/popes-sex-a ... -qnpn.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/popes-sex-abuse-apology-not-enough-20100321-qnpn.html)

So, having known all this has been happening all along for a long time, he finally decides to do something - issue a letter - but only when it has gotten so bad that he absolutely has to.

It shows the church didn't want to do anything in the first place. They'd prefer the victims just disappeared and suffered in silence. Lots of "compassion" and "love" deliberately displayed on the outside but on the inside, an organisation with very little integrity at its core.

Instead of all words and no action, a better response might be to sell all that property and compensate abuse victims.

[Thai Dyed]

So, having known all this has been happening all along for a long time, he finally decides to do something - issue a letter - but only when it has gotten so bad that he absolutely has to.


Well, it certainly has stirred up a veritable hornet's nest prompting all kinds of protests pro and con. Here are some pictures I have just received from a friend in Dublin who found himself caught up in the melee unawares. Some pretty nasty stuff here!
[attachment=4:2b4z8wnc]Irish Protest 1.jpg[/attachment:2b4z8wnc] [attachment=3:2b4z8wnc]Irish Protest 2.jpg[/attachment:2b4z8wnc] [attachment=2:2b4z8wnc]Irish Protest 3.jpg[/attachment:2b4z8wnc] [attachment=1:2b4z8wnc]Irish Protest 4.jpg[/attachment:2b4z8wnc] [attachment=0:2b4z8wnc]Protest Pamphlet.jpg[/attachment:2b4z8wnc]

[Beachlover]

http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/bb-t ... 5844068888 (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/bb-tells-couple-you-cant-stay-if-youre-gay/story-e6frfq80-1225844068888)

Christian bed and breakfast owner tells couple: You can't stay if you're gay


A GAY couple were turned away from a British guesthouse after the owner said it was "against her convictions" to allow them to share a bed.

Michael Black, 62, and John Morgan, 56, booked into Susanne Wilkinson's guesthouse in the village of Cookham, southeastern England.

Its website boasts "a warm and friendly welcome awaits all".

But when the pair arrived at the Bed & Breakfast last Friday, they claim Ms Wilkinson told them, "It's a double room".

She then allegedly made the remark about her beliefs.

Ms Wilkinson, who refunded the couple's booking fee, said: "I've held my beliefs for years. I am not a hotel, this is a private house."

But Mr Black said: "We were treated like lepers."

"We had to drive straight home in the rain late on Friday night," Mr Morgan said.

The couple reported Ms Wilkinson to local police, who are now investigating claims of discrimination.

[Thai Dyed]

http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/bb-tells-couple-you-cant-stay-if-youre-gay/story-e6frfq80-1225844068888

Christian bed and breakfast owner tells couple: You can't stay if you're gay


A friend from Cookham has written to tell me that it's his belief that Ms. Susanne Wilkinson has had a few difficulties with gays visiting her establishment recently. He said it was his opinion that some disruptive gays had somewhat soured Ms. Wilkinson's attitude and provided what he thought might be the subtle facts behind this story.

He attached these photos which he suspected were the real reason that Ms. Wilkinson didn't want any more gays staying in her facility in Cookham:
[attachment=3:23ypmkxr]older gay.jpg[/attachment:23ypmkxr]
Dress which was inappropriate for Ms. Wilkinson's dining room:
[attachment=2:23ypmkxr]Gays at guesthouse.jpg[/attachment:23ypmkxr]

But the biggest objection was that some of the guests behaviour frightened her horses causing a real nuisance:
[attachment=1:23ypmkxr]Gays frighten horses.jpg[/attachment:23ypmkxr]

And yet some were of the opinion that artifacts left behind by gay guests might offend other guests sense of propriety:
[attachment=0:23ypmkxr]Gay art.jpg[/attachment:23ypmkxr]

[Beachlover]

That's a heterosexual transaction so I don't think they would have minded.

[Beachlover]

Now the Irish Bishop has resigned.... It''s about bloody time. But what he also needs to do is toss himself out onto the street and stop accepting a salary from the church as well.

http://www.news.com.au/world/pope-accep ... 5845017147 (http://www.news.com.au/world/pope-accepts-resignation-of-bishop-john-magee-over-child-sex-scandal/story-e6frfkyi-1225845017147)


Now the pope needs to fall on his sword. They're in for a rough ride (pity it's not their LAST ride) now that it's all catching up to them. The entire organisation is implicit in this. If they sacked everyone responsible they'd be no one left over the age of 30. How could anyone possibly think it's ok to cover up these events? Let alone an entire organisation of people. And they didn't just cover it up... they just repeatedly put offenders in new positions where they would have the power to do it all over again!

http://www.smh.com.au/world/secrecy-on- ... -r45l.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/secrecy-on-child-abuse-stalks-pope-20100327-r45l.html)

[Thai Dyed]

Now the Irish Bishop has resigned.


Beachlover, you certainly are a man on a mission! In this regard, you most resemble those you are castigating. Isn't it always the case!

[attachment=0:1xu5xudq]Saint Beachlover.jpg[/attachment:1xu5xudq]
Lamb of God, Who takest away the sins of the world,
Spare us, O Beachlover.
Lamb of God, Who takest away the sins of the world,
Graciously hear us, O Beachlover.
Lamb of God, Who takest away the sins of the world,
Have mercy on us, O Beachlover.

Beachlover, you certainly are a man on a mission! In this regard, you most resemble those you are castigating. Isn't it always the case! Now I'm taking a rest for a couple of days (up bright and early again tomorrow) I can take this opportunity to say I'm so pleased Beachlover is showing some familiarity with my life and teachings as set out in My Four Biographies - you know, the ones that only exist because my Church has preserved them. Beachlover is a believer after all. Those parts of the Bible must be true else how could Beachlover so confidently state that some of what I said has value?

a man on a mission!
[X X] While the Vatican is indulging in vice, the state is tilting at online windmills:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/mar/2 ... bilitation (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/mar/28/online-child-pornography-sentences-rehabilitation)

And what prevents the law from being expanded to ban descriptions of other illegal acts, such as drug abuse or terrorism, or even political agitation? Once created, this malleable ability to make illegal any discussion that is determined to be against the тАЬpublic goodтАЭ can be stretched infinitely. The Economist, Letters, March 31st 2010

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100326185338/uncyclopedia/images/8/8f/Open_rabbit.jpg
Legitimate photo of an Easter bunny with colourful viscera.

[andrewcraig]

I often wonder when comments become shrill, what is the real reason behind their post. Are they trying to deflect attention away from themselves.

[Beachlover]

I have no idea what the above three comments from stop, TD and Miso are going on about or trying to say... bunch of ambiguous morons.

I have no idea what the above three comments from stop, TD and Miso are going on about or trying to say... bunch of ambiguous morons.

[Beachlover]

Interesting progression: http://www.news.com.au/world/richard-da ... 5852464459 (http://www.news.com.au/world/richard-dawkins-promises-to-arrest-pope-benedict-xvi/story-e6frfkyi-1225852464459)

Richard Dawkins promises to arrest Pope Benedict XVI

ATHEIST campaigner Richard Dawkins has vowed to arrest the Pope for crimes against humanity.

Professor Dawkins has hired a team of lawyers to see if Pope Benedict XVI can be charged over his handling of the sexual abuse scandal engulfing the Roman Catholic Church, according to The Sunday Times.

Professor Dawkins, who wrote The God Delusion, claims that the Pope has shielded paedophile priests from the authorities.

However, he and fellow writer Christopher Hitchens believe they can make a case for arresting the Pope during the Pope's planned visit to Britain in September.

Among the human rights lawyers they have hired is Australian-born barrister Geoffrey Robertson.

They do not believe the Pope will be able to claim diplomatic immunity because he is not recognised as a head of state by the United Nations.

"This is a man whose first instinct when his priests are caught with their pants down is to cover up the scandal and damn the young victims to silence," Professor Dawkins said.

Last year Israel's foreign minister Tzipi Livni was forced to cancel a planned trip to Britain after a British judge was persuaded by Palestinian activists to issue a warrant for her arrest over her role Israel's invasion of Gaza in 2008.

The warrant was later withdrawn.

[Surfcrest]

What am I? A charity? I volunteer my time, probably much more than the average person my age. I also pay obscene taxes of which a third goes to welfare.


I have plenty of time for compassion with my mates, volunteer work and other parts of my life.

Where do you find all the time for volunteering and spending plenty of time with your mates posting all this useless crap here?

You talk about money as the be all, end all purpose to life....but I can tell you Beachlover, money is the one thing you won't be bringing with you after you're gone. I'm a firm believer that we are judged in the end with how positive an impact we make in life to the planet and to humanity. Religions have evolved in different civilizations around the planet wihout any interactions from other civilaizations. They've had a purpose, they still have purposes and they will continue to do so after you and the rest of us are long gone.

The next time you are out hiking, look around at everything you see and understand that it all has purpose. There's a relationship between every living thing and like it or not......that includes you. Time is our most precious resource, not materialism.....nor is seeing our name so often on SGT.

[Beachlover]

Oh nice...


http://www.smh.com.au/world/child-abuse ... -se4y.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/child-abuse-is-a-gay-problem-says-vatican-20100414-se4y.html)


Child abuse is a gay problem, says Vatican
PAOLA TOTARO HERALD CORRESPONDENT
April 15, 2010

LONDON: The Vatican's Secretary of State - No. 2 to the Pope himself - has suggested the paedophilia crisis engulfing the Catholic Church is linked to homosexuality, not priests' celibacy.

During a press conference in Chile, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone also insisted that the church has never stymied investigation of priests accused of paedophilia.

''Many psychologists and psychiatrists have demonstrated that there is no relation between celibacy and paedophilia,'' the cardinal said. ''But many others have demonstrated, I have been told recently, that there is a relation between homosexuality and pedophilia. That is true. That is the problem.''


The cardinal's remarks have sparked a storm of controversy in Italy as well as Chile, where they were strongly criticised by politicians and medical experts, who accused the Secretary of State of ''vast generalisations''.

Senator Juan Antonio Coloma, president of the right-wing Independent Democratic Union, told the Chilean newspaper La Nacion that while he understood the claims were made in good faith, they were generalisations that could not be sustained.

Senator Patricio Walker of the Christian Democrats categorically disagreed with the comments. ''Paedophilia is a mental and sexual abnormality that affects both heterosexuals and homosexuals,'' he said.

''I would like to see what studies he is talking about because I would find it fairly surprising to see evidence for these claims.''

Cardinal Bertone's comments follow a series of claims from senior Vatican and Catholic officials over the past few weeks that the charges of clerical abuse and their cover-up by the church that have emerged in Europe, the US, Ireland and Australia are a product of media gossip and exaggeration.

Rolando Jimenez, president of the Movement for Homosexual Integration and Liberation in Chile, said no reputable study exists to support Monsignor Bertone's comments.

In Italy, Aurelio Mancuso, former president of the gay rights association, Arcigay, said: ''The truth is that Bertone is clumsily trying to shift attention to homosexuality and away from the focus on new crimes against children that emerge every day.''

The Pope's press secretary, Federico Lombardi, said the pontiff might consider a private meeting with victims of clerical sexual abuse in Malta during a visit there next weekend. But he said the Pope should not be pressured by the media and should be given the space to listen to and communicate with the victims.

Newspapers in Chile reported that the most prominent paedophiles uncovered in the Chilean church attacked young girls and made a teenager pregnant.

The archbishop of Santiago at the time was shown to have received multiple complaints about Father Jose Andres Aguirre from the families of the young girls. But the priest was allowed to continue serving at several Catholic girls' schools. The church later moved Aguirre out of Chile twice and he was finally sentenced to 12 years in prison for abusing 10 teenage girls.

In La Nacion, one of the young women, identified only as Paula, said she had been abused between the ages of 16 and 20. She said when she told other priests at confession, they simply told her to pray but ''everyone looked the other way. No one corrected or helped me''.

The Associated Press reported that she said one of the priests she confessed to about her sex with Aguirre was Francisco Jose Cox, who had been bishop in La Serena, in northern Chile, for several years but was removed in 1997 amid rumours he was a paedophile and transferred to Santiago, then Rome, then Colombia and finally Germany.

The Schoenstatt movement, a worldwide lay community within the Catholic Church, is reported to have paid for his transfers as well as ''treatment''. He was finally removed for ''inappropriate conduct'' in 2002.

[Rene]

Oh nice...


The Cardinal seems to have hit a raw nerve. Hmmm...

[Beachlover]

It's like watching a car accident...

[bao-bao]

Child abuse is a gay problem, says Vatican
PAOLA TOTARO HERALD CORRESPONDENT
April 15, 2010
The Pope's press secretary, Federico Lombardi, said the pontiff might consider a private meeting with victims of clerical sexual abuse in Malta during a visit there next weekend.
I don't think there's a large enough stadium in Malta.

Oh, wait... he probably only meant residents of Malta. Then there might be.

"Gay problem"... What a crock of sh*t. How sad for the innocent and truly faithful Catholics in this world.

[Rene]

It's like watching a car accident...

Symphorophilia is the word for a sexual interest in car crashes. Is that what you are Beachlover? A "sympho"? J. G. Ballard wrote a book based on this specific sexual interest.

Ballard also had this to say about us which may be what the Cardinal was considering in his explanation:
"Sex is now a conceptual act, it's probably only in terms of the perversions that we can make contact with each other at all."
Gaudeamus igitur.