my wai or the "hi" way

[a447]

Just wondering - when I met a younger guy, should I wai, or just say "hi."

Just wondering - when I met a younger guy, should I wai, or just say "hi."

There is a very basic rule, if in doubt don't wai. It isn't expected from a Farang, and if done in a wrong way can actually in a few cases cause embarrassment to the Thai.

[allieb]

Just wondering - when I met a younger guy, should I wai, or just say "hi."


In my opinion don't wai in any curcumstances. Your not a Tai and it's not expected. A Thai Friend of mine once told me that seeing a Farang wai makes him cringe. Whatever next , surgery on the eyes to look like Thais.

If a Thai wais me I bow my head slightly in response.

[Surfcrest]

I posted this many years back (perhaps on EZ Board)....here it is again.

The Wai

The hands-together, used as a greeting, an expression of thanks, a sign of respect toward status superiors, and as an apology for social mistakes or inconvenience. Initiated by the status inferior, it is a sign of respect toward oneтАЩs status superior (i.e. from younger to elder, subordinate to boss, layperson to monk, etc). The Pra-nom-meu is the actual hands together gesture, made in the shape of a lotus bud. The Wai itself is the movement of the hands to the level of the chin, nose or forehead, usually with the head dipped.

Foreigners will rarely initiate a Wai (this would not be expected by the Thai). However, it is necessary for the foreigner to always acknowledge the Wai. Think of the Wai as a hand extended for a hand-shake. If the foreigner feels comfortable doing so, the Wai given in greeting or parting can be returned with the foreignerтАЩs Pra-nom-meu

The level of the hands and the dipping of the head demonstrate the presenterтАЩs degree of respect. For instance, a monk will be presented a greeting Pra-nom-meu Wai in which the fingertips are at forehead level and the head is dipped lower (sometimes called a тАЬHigh WaiтАЭ by foreigners). Note that in the presence of a monk, the Thai typically sit holding the Pra-nom-meu at chest level.

The gesture demonstrated by the lovely Thai International Airways attendant upon boarding or deplaning an aircraft is in most cases, the only kind most foreigners would use to acknowledge a Wai. The Pra-nom-meu is held below the chin and the head need not be dipped. Even if the hands are full, the Thai makes an attempt at the gesture.

A foreigner, if desired, can first present the Wai in greeting the elderly, monks, or other high-status people, in which case, the hands would be placed higher toward the nose and the head bowed slightly. The Wai is a social gesture of acknowledgement and respect; misuse of it by indiscriminate presentation can cause great embarrassment. For instance, presenting a Wai to a waiter or waitress could be construed as mocking. DonтАЩt initiate a Wai to a child, as many believe this will take seven years off the childтАЩs life.

The Wai given in thanks for a gift or deed, and the Wai given as an apology need not be returned-just acknowledge with a nod and a smile.

Before Buddha images, highly venerated monks, and royalty, the Thai perform a triple Pra-nom-meu Wai and protration. This triple prostration is called gr├бp.

The above noted text was taken from Bua LuangтАЩs WYSIWYS Thai Phrase Book written by Eric Allyn. This book is was available from Floating Lotus. It is an excellent reference manual for understanding Thai culture.

A Wai is given for a gift or a deed. This would include being invited into the home of your Thai friend, especially if you are staying for tea, dinner or overnight. Remember Wai and your Shoes (remove your shoes before crossing the threshold.


.....or as Beachlover would say....."cluck".

Good God, no. Please.

[a447]

Wow! It IS possible to get sensible replies on this board.
Thanks for the info, guys. I will NOT offer a wai from now on.

[cdnmatt]

If a Thai wais me I bow my head slightly in response.

Exact same here. Acknowledges the wai with respect, without making an ass out of yourself, and embarrassing everyone you're with.

Well, unless I get dragged to the temple of course, then obviously, I wai to the monks. That's about the only time though.

[Marsilius]

Easy rule of thumb: think of a wai as the same as addressing someone as "sir".

You would not say "Good evening, sir!" to a doorman, bell-boy or a go-go boy... So do not wai him.

You probably would say "Good morning, sir!" to your boss, a provincial governor or - God forbid! - a Thai magistrate... So you would wai them.

The only people I ever "Wai" are my boyfriend's mother and monks. My boyfriend says his mother appreciates it and it's the polite thing to do. That's in rural Ratchaburi where I'm the only Farang that ever visits her village.

Things in Pattaya are very different and I don't use the "Wai" and I don't think it's expected but acknowledging it from someone else is just being polite.

Due to the fact that you are a foreigner YOU are of higher status than the Thai person. ( I know most Americans will cringe at that thought, but it is true ). Because traditional Thai culture is feudal in nature, everyone knows who is above them and who is below them in society... and THEY like it that way.

You should NEVER wai first or at all, a simple nod of the head in acknowledgment is sufficient.

- ajarntrade

[maisoui]

Due to the fact that you are a foreigner YOU are of higher status than the Thai person. ( I know most Americans will cringe at that thought, but it is true ). Because traditional Thai culture is feudal in nature, everyone knows who is above them and who is below them in society... and THEY like it that way.

You should NEVER wai first or at all, a simple nod of the head in acknowledgment is sufficient.

- ajarntrade

I'm not American and I'm puking at this. I know many Thais of higher status than a language teacher. Your post is just crass racism.

Due to the fact that you are a foreigner YOU are of higher status than the Thai person.



Your vision of Thai society is warped. If you think that you, simply because you are a foreigner, are of higher status than any Thai person, you are doomed to getting your head kicked in.

"Due to the fact that you are a white YOU are of higher status than the Thai person."

[Smiles]

" ... The hands-together, used as a greeting, an expression of thanks, a sign of respect toward status superiors, and as an apology for social mistakes or inconvenience ... "
Agree for the most part about 'wai-ing' (i.e. don't wai if you are unsure), and never initiating a 'wai' to someone younger than yourself. I don't think it hurts to 'wai' back to a Thai if he gives you one (though don't wai back to waiters, or service workers in general while they are working.) Definitely 'wai' the Immigration officer if he wais you, and back it up with 100 baht under the arm :blackeye:

The part bolded-in-blue in the above quote is important though, even for farangs. A wai is quite appropriate if you should ~ for instance ~ bump somebody hard on the street, step on someone's foot, cause someone else to have an accident, etc etc. Wai-ing under such circumstances reduces the tension level, lowers any anger caused, makes peace in a situation where you have inadvertantly wronged a Thai.

The other evening myself and a friend were sitting in Guys Bar. A young Thai guy who works there named 'Chee' (whom we both know) came over ~ as he usually does ~ and sat with us as we talked. At one point Chee went to get my friend another beer, brought it over and started pouring a glass for him. For some reason I was idly watching this and saw that his hand and arm were shaking quite noticeably as he poured. When he sat down I said to him something along these lines:

ME: "You drunk already, it's only 9:30?" (This was in a joking tone ... he knew it)
CHEE: "No, not drunk"
ME: "Your hands are really shaking"
CHEE: "Yes yes. Do you know, I have Parkinson's Disease"

Well. After taking my sandal out of my mouth, feeling very bad, very sad ... I gave him a quite high and quite bowed head 'wai'. And in english, accompanied it with heartfelt apologies. It just seemed the exact right thing to do at the time.

Chee is 28, a good guy, always a smile, never pushy with the massage invitations. I had noticed this shaking a few times before, but had never commented as at the time it had been not at all dramatic. This night however, it was rather obvious.
Naturally, I wished I had shut my trap.

[Marsilius]

Because traditional Thai culture is feudal in nature, everyone knows who is above them and who is below them in society

Oh, not's let get onto this again! Thai society is hierarchical, for sure, but it is definitely NOT "feudal" - because it is not characterised by the transfer of land in exchange specifically for military service. Rather it is a society characterised by (largely informal) ties of patronage.

See the prolonged discussion had here earlier at gay-thailand-f9/interesting-analysis-pad-t16611-15.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand-f9/interesting-analysis-pad-t16611-15.html)

Due to the fact that you are a foreigner YOU are of higher status than the Thai person. ( I know most Americans will cringe at that thought, but it is true ). Because traditional Thai culture is feudal in nature, everyone knows who is above them and who is below them in society... and THEY like it that way.

You should NEVER wai first or at all, a simple nod of the head in acknowledgment is sufficient.

- ajarntrade

http://ispyshanghai.com/wdpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/ronald-mcdonald-wai.jpg

So this white American clown has got it all wrong?
As a foreigner, he is initiating the wai and thus, is of lower status than the Thai people who enter to eat and become clinically obese?
But the Thais who go in are trying to emulate American behavior ... thus lowering their status?
Weird.

[cdnmatt]

Due to the fact that you are a foreigner YOU are of higher status than the Thai person.

For some reason, I don't think the majority of Thais share your view. I dare you to walk into almost any establishment (preferably a bar) at around 10 or 11pm, and proudly proclaim to everyone that you are of a higher status because you're white, and they're not. See what happens.

[Beachlover]

That Ronald McDonald guy just freaks me out. I don't know how millions of little kids could possibly not be freaked out of their minds by him.

[Beachlover]

I think it's more a case of the "be a good host" and "treat your guests well" thing than a "foreigners automatically have higher status" thing. You know how when you invite someone into your home you want to make them feel comfortable, at home and well treated?

To an extent, yes -- the guest is elevated. But not if the Thai individual is a high status person, or the foreigner a visibly low status person (like some of the filth you see on the streets of Pattaya -- you know, the skinhead, tattooed, singlet-and-shorts-wearing trash that walk around drinking Chang out of a liter bottle).

Gacy.

[chillnorth]

Even a Farang-Ki-Nok receives the occasional wai. I'd call that a special status rather than a higher one.

Over many years I've learned that a smile and slight friendly nod in acknowledgement of a wai is preferable in polite company. Certainly no wais to wait staff or bar friends who would be much happier with a tip.

Giving a wai to someone who has just bonked your brains out (or vice versa) just screams "novice", as if it would matter at that point.

Over many years I've learned that a smile and slight friendly nod in acknowledgement of a wai is preferable in polite company, except perhaps to a monk.

Getting many wais from monks, are you? Maybe the fake Chinese kind who ply the back sois looking for suckers.

[chillnorth]

Error noted and edited to comply with the high standards of this board. :thebirdman:

[Beachlover]

That Ronald McDonald guy just freaks me out. I don't know how millions of little kids could possibly not be freaked out of their minds by him.

Actually he looks a bit like John Wayne Gacy! :evil2:

I was wondering who he was... Googled him... and geez... one fucked up fellow he was. Clown and all.

[cdnmatt]

Now that this topic has died down, I actually have a similar question that doesn't warrant a new topic...

When at a restaurant or wherever, how many of you guys yell out "pee!" to get the attention of wait staff? Seems to be a somewhat common thing in Thailand, depending on where you are and who you're with, but I've never gotten comfortable with it. For me, it's the same as being in Canada, and yelling out "waitress!" to a lady 60 feet away from me. In Canada, you just don't do that, but at various places in Thailand, it seems as though it's the norm.

So, do any of you guys yell out "pee!" when you need wait staff? Or do you just politely wait in hopes of being able to make eye contact with the staff at some point?

it would be inappropriate to use that form of address, since it would be very unlikely that the waiter would be older than any of the posters here

Now that this topic has died down, I actually have a similar question that doesn't warrant a new topic...

When at a restaurant or wherever, how many of you guys yell out "pee!" to get the attention of wait staff? Seems to be a somewhat common thing in Thailand, depending on where you are and who you're with, but I've never gotten comfortable with it. For me, it's the same as being in Canada, and yelling out "waitress!" to a lady 60 feet away from me. In Canada, you just don't do that, but at various places in Thailand, it seems as though it's the norm.

So, do any of you guys yell out "pee!" when you need wait staff? Or do you just politely wait in hopes of being able to make eye contact with the staff at some point?

'Nong' would be the correct word, it refers to a person of a younger age. 'Pee' refers to someone who is of an older age. Using 'Nong' is quite common and acceptable.

[TrongpaiExpat]

or if you want to be polite Khun nong krap?

Get the tone wrong with pee and you'll clear the restaurant declaring that a ghost is afoot.

[cdnmatt]

Ok, so 'nong' is someone younger, and 'pee' is someone older. In my case, alot of times the wait staff is older than me, so 'pee' would still be ok.

Nonetheless, do you guys actually yell out "nong!" to someone say 40 feet away? It's all good for a farang to do that? I don't know, I've never done it myself, because that's a big no-no in Canada. You don't just yell across the restaurant at the staff.

PS. This is the part of Thai I hate. So which one of the 18 "nong"'s am I supposed to say? :P With English, if you get a small sound, vowel length, or tone wrong, everyone will still understand you. Doesn't work like that with Thai.

Ok, so 'nong' is someone younger, and 'pee' is someone older. In my case, alot of times the wait staff is older than me, so 'pee' would still be ok.

Maybe you would be "wais" to keep this sort of thing in the same category as the wais - by trying to "blend in" you are far more likely to stand out. Calling a waiter "phee" would not be "ok" as it has a status connotation as well as the age reference dave_syd and sanook mentioned and you should never call a waiter "phee", no matter how young or inferior you feel. Keep it simple: wave and smile.

Maybe you would be "wais" to keep this sort of thing in the same category as the wais - by trying to "blend in" you are far more likely to stand out. Calling a waiter "phee" would not be "ok" as it has a status connotation as well as the age reference dave_syd and sanook mentioned and you should never call a waiter "phee", no matter how young or inferior you feel. Keep it simple: wave and smile.

GF is of course correct, you need to try to understand more about Thai culture and their ways. As we have all mentioned before, "if in doubt don't do it" just be as polite as you would be in your own country and you will not go wrong.

[Beachlover]

Smile and wave seems to be the way to go.

At home, when the waiter/tress is a few metres away or not looking at me (so smiling/waving doesn't work) and I need to get their attention I usually just say "excuse me" in a polite way (not "waiter!").

Is there a Thai equivalent of saying, "excuse me" to get their attention?

[giggsy]

In calling for a waiter, do not call them with "Pssst" or "Boy." It's very tacky. Always establish eye contact and raise your hand halfway to call his or her attention. In deluxe fine dining, eye contact is enough. In regular dining, you need a body gesture to get a waiter's attention. Talk to them in their first name, which is found on the nameplate. It is polite and the waiter will appreciate it.

If that dosn't work I find flicking a lit cigarette at them usually gets their attention. :kos:

[cdnmatt]

Alright, so do the same as in Canada. Patiently wait, and if you get really pissy, get up and walk over to the staff.

I actually didn't know. You know, sometimes you'll be sitting there patiently waiting 10 - 15 mins just to ask for the check-bin. If you're with a Thai though, they simply yell out "pee!" at the top of their lungs, and somebody comes rushing right over. Alrighty then, problem solved! Thanks.

You know, sometimes you'll be sitting there patiently waiting 10 - 15 mins just to ask for the check-bin. If you're with a Thai though, they simply yell out "pee!" at the top of their lungs, and somebody comes rushing right over. Alrighty then, problem solved!

Only if they're, like, 17 years old and thus younger than the wait staff. Otherwise it's "nong", and there is nothing rude about it.

It is perfectly acceptable for a middle aged farang to call a Thai waiter "Nong', irrespective of how old the waiter may appear to be. Bit like calling a waiter in France "Garcon" - or is that no longer accepted?

I would not call a waiter (or anyone ese) "nong" if they were older than me. I would probably say "khun krub".

[Beachlover]

Is "khun krub" the equivalent of "excuse me" then?

Is "khun krub" the equivalent of "excuse me" then?

р╕Др╕╕р╕Ур╕Др╕гр╕▒р╕� � 'khun khrap' is literally 'you' in a polite way

р╕Вр╕нр╣Вр╕Чр╕й 'kho thort' (i guess thats close to the pronunciation) is a common way to say 'excuse me'

Is "khun krub" the equivalent of "excuse me" then?

It is the polite way of calling someone's attention.

[TrongpaiExpat]

What about katort? I had one Thai teacher that wanted us to start every conversation exchange with katort.....

[thaiguest]

For foreigners living and doing business with thais on a daily basis I think Surfcrest's informative post should be noted but for the rest of us I think waiing should be avoided.
It's so ridiculous to see farangs waiing waiters, bar boys, doormen, and so on left and right as they come and go leaving a trail of confusion and mirth after them. It comes down to westerners assuming that they know everything ie. that a wai is a thai version of 'howdy there boys' or a shaking of hands. It's of course nothing of the sort. The west does not have an equivalent.
I cringe when a particular Pattaya bar owner I know arrives from his many business trips around Asia and greets his waiting staff with high wais all around. He does it because he's a nice man. This visibly spooks the staff simply because he's a senior anchor figure in their world and is now acting like a servant or an idiot. For thais to have recourse to justice and fair play in disputes with fellow workers for example there must be a senior figure that stands aloof. The western method of bringing them together to 'trash it all out' will not work. That's Thai/Asian culture.
Westerners in Asia are forever thinking they're at home.
Missionaries and NGOs in particular have this home-centric virus.

[Beachlover]

Yeah... well put.

I never noticed there was a "high wai" or "normal wai" until now. I should probably be conscious of this for the future.

I find most of the time the thing to do is just give a polite nod and smile. Very occasionally when it's a more involving or drawn out encounter I feel a bit awkward not waiing back so I do offer a wai back... but you can sort of feel when these exceptions are appropriate.

I wonder if Thais who venture out to other countries have to make and effort to get used to not waiiing.

What about katort? I had one Thai teacher that wanted us to start every conversation exchange with katort.....

I would only use that if I were interrupting someone while they were doing something else. Simply to get someone's attention, "khun krub" is it.

[Beachlover]

That's useful. But does "khun krub" apply if you're addressing a woman as well?

That's useful. But does "khun krub" apply if you're addressing a woman as well?

Sure.

[cdnmatt]

That's useful. But does "khun krub" apply if you're addressing a woman as well?

Yeah, if you're a man, always say "krub" at the end to be polite. If you're a woman, it's "ka".

I had that mixed up at the beginning for a bit, thinking it was the same as saying "sir" and "madame" in English. So I was wondering around saying, "kawp khun ka" to women for a bit.

There are a lot of men (not gays or kathoeys) who say "ka" when responding to women -- though it is a bit cutesy and condescending to do so.

Stick with krub.

[lonelywombat]

There are a lot of men (not gays or kathoeys) who say "ka" when responding to women -- though it is a bit cutesy and condescending to do so.

Stick with krub.


There is a real screaming queen that sells ice cream on Jomtien Beach.

He breaks all the Thai boys up who hear him for the first time call out

ICE CREAMS KA

[Beachlover]

That's useful. But does "khun krub" apply if you're addressing a woman as well?

Yeah, if you're a man, always say "krub" at the end to be polite. If you're a woman, it's "ka".

Yeah, it was the "khun" bit I was unsure about. I thought (with my extremely limited knowledge of Thai) "khun" was referring to a man... so wondered if it was right to address, for example a female waitress with, "khun krub".


I had that mixed up at the beginning for a bit, thinking it was the same as saying "sir" and "madame" in English. So I was wondering around saying, "kawp khun ka" to women for a bit.

Hehe... I'm glad I learnt this one when I first got to Thailand.

this list of thai pronouns might be helpful: http://www.thai-language.com/id/589867

[Surfcrest]

There is a real screaming queen that sells ice cream on Jomtien Beach.

He breaks all the Thai boys up who hear him fro the first time call out

ICE CREAMS KA

No, you'll find the screaming queens playing volleyball.
This is a young man with a unique or distinctive voice who feels comfortable enough with his sexual identity to use "ka".
Some farangs just arriving to the beach for the first time will laugh, as do the Thai boys they have in tow...bearing in mind that these boys would laugh at a drowning if their farang was laughing too.

With regard to Wais, in my decade of visiting Thailand, I have only ever wai'd the parents of my thai guy who are older than me, by way of respect .My Thai guy agreed that this would be in order, although status wise i'm not sure exactly where I stand, financially superior, but I don't know where 'not being Thai' puts me.

Anyone who wai's me first, I always smile and nod/bow my head in acknowledgement.

[piston10]

I was told by a friend on Jomtien Beach last week that this seller, if sent up, will reply (no doubt taught by a farang):
ICE CREAM
YOU SCREAM
WE ALL SCREAM

He sure is a performer.

With regard to Wais, in my decade of visiting Thailand, I have only ever wai'd the parents of my thai guy who are older than me, by way of respect .My Thai guy agreed that this would be in order, although status wise i'm not sure exactly where I stand, financially superior, but I don't know where 'not being Thai' puts me.

Anyone who wai's me first, I always smile and nod/bow my head in acknowledgement.

You always wai friends or partners' parents -- even if you're Bill Gates or the Pope.

[mj_87-old]

Many of the posters here seem to believe or accuse the Thai people of being so dim witted that they are unable to deal with a foreign person trying to be nice in Thailand by offering up a bow or a wai.

I suspect Thais are perfectly able to manage the odd ball and or culturally inconsistent foreigner spending their baht and being inappropriately polite.
Do the posters suggest a training course at the airport on how to behave like a social superior? I suspect a few of the posters here would love to be in charge of that training regime.

[Impulse]

Just saw a documentary on child sex in cambodia.At the end of the show,Chris Hansen did a wai to five Cambodian girls,about fourteen years old who were rescued from a life of prostitution.
Maybe he should have read this thread first.