Venues chasing straight tourists defeating themselves.

[lonelywombat]

There has been a lot of discussion about the fall from their previous heights of gay popularity of BoyzBoyzBoyz, WildWestBoys, Throb now Copa and maybe even Venue. The next 4 weeks here in Melbourne is the pre Mardi Gras festival, Midsumma and early discussions about the decline of the great gay clubs of 10 years ago, came back to opening the doors to straights in the chase of extra dollars. Even the big Tea Dance in the gardens next sunday night is tipped to be not more than 50% gay.

I tried to work out when my love affair with BBB came to an end and I have to admit it was when Madam Jim was starting to see herself as a diva and star of every show. I had been through all the changes the new police chiefs bought in, no nudity, no underpants only shorts, boys must wear shirts and each time they gradually eased off and things came back to normal. I still remained loyal. But when the show became the priority the boys seemed to become a necessity to fill in the gaps before and after the show[s]
I actually like shows but they are not the reason I go to Thailand. Once the quality of the boys started to wane so did my interest.That is when I started to get even more uncomfortable with straight women watching gay men selecting a sex partner for the night.

I think on GTT Buckaway posted about the good old days at Throb with the extremely talented but fat star of the show, the once funny monkey/dog that humped his way around the audience but the increasing numbers of straight tourists coming in for the show only turned me off. They had a lot of attractive boys but that seems to have changed.

Wildwestboys shows were terrific and for the first time I started to go to see a show and stayed for the second. I found the selection of boys excellent and always had one or two to join me for a drink and an off now and again. The tourists were once again the offputting thing that led me to rethink my nightly program.
Now I do not off or buy a drink at or prior to the WWB shows which used to great but now a poor imitation of what it was. I started to go for an off early or after the second show and missing the show altogether but last trip went 5 days without visiting the club for a show or an off.

It is becoming the same for the Venue but I had the additional shock of a lady from the next table competing for the same boy to take off, and as a straight boy he went for the pussy. I can understand that.
It seems so much more public in the Venue and with the high proportion of straights inhibiting.

Now I divide my nights into a show night with usually dinner and 2 shows preceded by a massage or an early evening off. Other nights are gogo w/o cabaret nights which seems to me to be a good mix.

But economically can the cabaret shows see they are damaging themselves financially. Will they they rely more and more on the straight tourist and gradually lose their gay image. They seem to be making no attempt to woo the gay drinker except for the shows . It seems madness.

I find myself now spreading most of my time between Sunee, Jomtien Complex and Bondi when they dont have farang drag queens on show. Cafe Royale is no longer attractive as a dinner, show or late night bar option.

Of course the first and maybe second/third time gay tourist will start at Boyztown and with Cafe Royale, Ambience, Serene and the Twin Towers offering gay accomodation ,but more and more I am finding that return visitors are looking more to Jomtien area condos to rent.

Maybe the decline of Boyztown has already started. Only time will tell.

[cdnmatt]

Totally agree. Honestly, stick to Sunnee. Don't worry, you won't have to compete with women there, and there's tons of guys available to suit every taste. :-) Like I've stated before on this forum, commercialization of the gay scene in Pattaya is a bad precedent to set (ie. BoyzTown, Pattaya Gay TV, etc.), as that's not the reason we've come to love Pattaya. I was just told I was an idiot though, but in subsequent threads, it turns out most people think the same. Go figure...

Nonetheless, hang out at Sunnee more often. It's gay as gay can be. :-)

[Patexpat]

It is becoming the same for the Venue but I had the additional shock of a lady from the next table competing for the same boy to take off, and as a straight boy he went for the pussy. I can understand that.
It seems so much more public in the Venue and with the high proportion of straights inhibiting.

You can't off staff from The Venue.

[lonelywombat]

It is becoming the same for the Venue but I had the additional shock of a lady from the next table competing for the same boy to take off, and as a straight boy he went for the pussy. I can understand that.
It seems so much more public in the Venue and with the high proportion of straights inhibiting.

You can't off staff from The Venue.

Well they were together at next morning breakfast and they walked past me when I was having a consolation nightcap, maybe Venue does not accept an off fee, but boys can be invited to go home after work.

[Patexpat]

It is becoming the same for the Venue but I had the additional shock of a lady from the next table competing for the same boy to take off, and as a straight boy he went for the pussy. I can understand that.
It seems so much more public in the Venue and with the high proportion of straights inhibiting.

You can't off staff from The Venue.

Well they were together at next morning breakfast and they walked past me when I was having a consolation nightcap, maybe Venue does not accept an off fee, but boys can be invited to go home after work.

You are correct - the policy is that the staff can do as they wish after work, but in the interest of clarity to other visitors to the venue you cannot OFF a boy, which is precisely what you said.

Interestingly (and actually I think regrettably) The Venue does not do breakfast either.

[lonelywombat]

You are correct - the policy is that the staff can do as they wish after work, but in the interest of clarity to other visitors to the venue you cannot OFF a boy, which is precisely what you said.

Interestingly (and actually I think regrettably) The Venue does not do breakfast either.

I did not suggest they were having breakfast at the Venue, actually it was down at the beach.

[TrongpaiExpat]

........., as that's not the reason we've come to love Pattaya.

We've? Speak for yourself, not everyone "loves" Pattaya. I wonder though, what is the reason(s) that you and others have come to love Pattaya?

[Hmmm]

Any gay go-go bar that admits women is insulting me. It would be like admitting women to a gay sauna. It's private gay business.

Paying to watch middle-aged men dressed as women makes me feel like I am paying to watch another man's sexual fantasy.

I take my business to establishments where I am subjected to neither of the above.

[TrongpaiExpat]

Are these venues actively "chasing" straight customers or are straight customers, couples and women just coming in on their own?

How can a venue prohibit entry to a certain group of people? Are you talking about tour groups? I don't see them coming to any of the Bangkok bars like they used to years ago, that still going on in Pattaya?

Once I was sitting at Dick's Cafe, soi Twilight and this group of about 15 couples came walking by two-by-two, hand in hand, with the free hand holding a bible. There was a single man leading them holding his hands up to heaven. They keep their eyes fixed straight ahead, less they turn to a pillar of salt I assume? They made two passes and it really amused the door touts. One the second pass some of the bar staff and boys looked out from the bars.

[Koh Samui Luv]

........., as that's not the reason we've come to love Pattaya.

We've? Speak for yourself, not everyone "loves" Pattaya. I wonder though, what is the reason(s) that you and others have come to love Pattaya?

Right TrongpaiExpat! Spot on! Oh yes, and I also wonder about the reason(s) they just love Pattaya? :rolling:

And for those among us who don't like Pattaya there is always the Atlanta Hotel, "Bangkok's bastion of wholesome and culturally sensitive tourism."

[CoffeeBreak]

Any gay go-go bar that admits women is insulting me. It would be like admitting women to a gay sauna. It's private gay business.

Paying to watch middle-aged men dressed as women makes me feel like I am paying to watch another man's sexual fantasy.

I take my business to establishments where I am subjected to neither of the above.


Agree with this post entirely and some years back there was a gay bar in BKK that had a notice up outside the main entrance:
"No Women Allowed".

And does anyone remember years back how the wonderful "Rome Club" was ruined by letting non gays in?

Maybe in Pattaya Boystown should change its name to 'Gaytown' to keep the straights etc out of our scene.

Middle aged(or any) men who dress up as women have a severe mental problem and they just give gays a bad name.

[Beachlover]

Once I was sitting at Dick's Cafe, soi Twilight and this group of about 15 couples came walking by two-by-two, hand in hand, with the free hand holding a bible. There was a single man leading them holding his hands up to heaven. They keep their eyes fixed straight ahead, less they turn to a pillar of salt I assume? They made two passes and it really amused the door touts. One the second pass some of the bar staff and boys looked out from the bars.

LOL, I want to see this one day... I wonder what makes a group of people do that? I mean... does some preacher just say to his flock, "Hey folks, I've heard the darkest and most blasphemous street in Bangkok is this one... let's do a holy march into there and see if converts anyone..."

Any gay go-go bar that admits women is insulting me. It would be like admitting women to a gay sauna. It's private gay business.

Paying to watch middle-aged men dressed as women makes me feel like I am paying to watch another man's sexual fantasy.

I take my business to establishments where I am subjected to neither of the above.


If gays want to be accepted by society then they must accept that some members of society will occasionally want to take a peek at what goes on in the gay world.

After years of fighting for :protest: equality :protest: stonewall :protest: gay pride marches :protest: gay marriage et al ... you now want to exclude the very people you want acceptance from?
That sounds a tad hypocritical to me.

I well understand the older gay feeling uncomfortable with females or straight couples using the male go-go establishments, but actually when you look at it in the wider scope, the male go-go bars in Thailand are offering boys for rent full stop, with none that I can think of that push or advertise boys 'for men only'. Business is business, and I wouldn't think that the 'gay' places in say Soi 4 Silom such as Telephone, Balcony etc would shun female or straight clientele.

[jinks]

Several years ago, I was introduced to my friend's boyfriend, both working boys !
During dinner the boyfriend told me about a straight couple offing him.
The husband sat and watched his wife being serviced by the boy.

Or as his exact words were "I have to fuck farang woman, man watch ..... NO LIKE"

After years of fighting for :protest: equality :protest: stonewall :protest: gay pride marches :protest: gay marriage et al ... you now want to exclude the very people you want acceptance from?
That sounds a tad hypocritical to me.

Agreed - it is, however, exactly what some gays, including some posting here, want and exactly how they are best described. Those supporting official "gay quarters" (as in Liverpool, which reportedly (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8337446.stm) had the highest rise in "homophobic crime" of any area in the UK recently) and "gay beaches", etc, who would be among the first to protest about any equivalent "straight quarter" or "straight beach" are responsible at least in part for some of the recent backlash against gays.

.... his exact words were "I have to fuck farang woman, man watch ..... NO LIKE"

Presumably he had the tact to refrain from complaining "I have to fuck/be fucked by fat, dirty, ugly old farang man ..... NO LIKE".

[bao-bao]

There's probably no real harm to having mixed couples (allegedly straight or otherwise) in gay go-go clubs, I guess - but there's room for considerable debate about it - sadly something that probably won't take place here as the usual idiots will begin slinging shit in another page or so and the whole thing will become yet another train wreck. HOWEVER... before that happens I'll throw in my two satang:

I don't care for the "freak show" side of tourism any more in Thailand than I do here at home. Tour buses used to make regular runs through the Castro in San Francisco, filled with gawkers pressing their noses against the windows and fumbling with their Instamatics. The city told them to stop, thank goodness.

In Bangkok itтАЩs amusing тАУ to a point тАУ to see groups of tourists walking behind a guide, their wide-eyed faces whipping back and forth with a speed and force I should think would give them neck problems as theyтАЩre herded through Boyztown, but then Boyztown ISa freak show on a variety of levels, if truth be known.

Not that I donтАЩt enjoy a dinner outside at Amor or Caf├й Royale, but I donтАЩt care to be gawked at as if I were on the wrong side of the bars in a zoo тАУ although if you ask my friends there may be some debate on my opinion about that, too. Just as a couple of people have done to me when IтАЩve asked permission to take their picture IтАЩm tempted to hold my hand out to these gawkers and say тАЬten baht!тАЭ

In a go-go club it seems even more of an intrusion, but that probably says more about US as the gawkers than it does about the тАЬcouplesтАЭ there along with us, and probably speaks to a level of psychology thatтАЩs best left out of this particular debate. :cheers:

[jolyjacktar]

Its one thing allowing women into gay bars and shows but if these clubs and bars want to do this then they should think about adding womens toilets to their places as the times ive been stood at a urinal and a ferang woman has come in due to there being only the one toilet, i think cafe Royale springs to mind but i cant be sure if im right with that as its some time since i was last there.
Its a bloody cheek and i dont like it.

Presumably he had the tact to refrain from complaining "I have to fuck/be fucked by fat, dirty, ugly old farang man .....".This post tells us a lot about you Gone Fisting, but nothing about the boy. You've let yourself go before you moved to Thailand or afterwards? Perhaps you should go to a gym, as I do.

[Beachlover]

I don't think the gay venues are actively "chasing" straight tourists and I think it's fine that they let them in.

I kind of get turned on seeing ladies all wide eyed and mouths open staring at all the guys lol.

This article is hilarious:

"Herds of horny Japanese women are flocking to Thailand to make sure its capital city lives up to its name, according to Shukan Shincho."

http://www.asiansexgazette.com/asg/japa ... news27.htm (http://www.asiansexgazette.com/asg/japan/japan06news27.htm)

The saucy bits...

"There's a 28-year-old OL I know who first came to Bangkok on a holiday 18 months ago and loved the go-go boys so much she has been coming back to Bangkok twice a month ever since," the journalist says. "She stays at five-star hotels costing 20,000 yen a night and keeps the boys with her for a week ... When she gets sick of one guy, she simply calls up another one. She says she feels like a princess. Thai men are really kind and make a big fuss over her."

Another Japanese woman, this one a 30-year-old OL from Kanagawa Prefecture, was also delighted by the go-go boys from Bangkok. She went out dancing with a group of three boys, including one who called himself "Takeshi."

"Takeshi asked me if I'd like to go home with him. We got into a taxi and went to his house, which was a fancy place. We have a few beers, then Takeshi asked me if I'd like to see his bedroom on the second floor. I knew what was going to happen and my heart started pounding. I told him he had to wear a condom and he took one out of his pocket and waved it in front of my eyes. We had a laugh and fell down on his bed. He was hung even bigger than he'd looked like while on stage. It was huge. I was a bit worried about whether it would fit, but it was wonderful," the OL gushes to Shukan Shincho, adding that one of the other go-go-boys soon came along and wanted to join in. "Takeshi asked me what I wanted to do. I said it was all right as long as he used protection. That guy brought a condom out of his pocket and showed me, too. It looked like they'd done this kind of thing before. It was the first time I'd ever had a three-in-a-bed romp. One would pleasure me with their mouth while the other used other parts. I guess because they were used to working the gay scene, they tried to go through the back door, too, but I told them not to do that. At about 6 o'clock in the morning, Takeshi called me a tuk-tuk and took me back to my hotel. It was an unbelievably wonderful experience."

[Hmmm]

Any gay go-go bar that admits women is insulting me. It would be like admitting women to a gay sauna. It's private gay business.

Paying to watch middle-aged men dressed as women makes me feel like I am paying to watch another man's sexual fantasy.

I take my business to establishments where I am subjected to neither of the above.


If gays want to be accepted by society then they must accept that some members of society will occasionally want to take a peek at what goes on in the gay world.

After years of fighting for :protest: equality :protest: stonewall :protest: gay pride marches :protest: gay marriage et al ... you now want to exclude the very people you want acceptance from?
That sounds a tad hypocritical to me.

It's got nothing to do with acceptance*. It's got to do with biology. Women belong in male gay go-go bars like I belong in a female toilet.

By the way, I have no problem with women in gay male discos, in small numbers.

*and if you think by allowing women to observe what goes on in a gay go-go bar in Thailand will lead to greater acceptance of gays by the straight community, you have a different understanding of the heterosexual mind to mine.

I guess I'm completely different than most. I actually enjoy seeing curious farang women and couples because it makes it seem more acceptable, less perverse. I expect woman to accept that I get turned on by beautiful bronzed Thai boy skin, and their gorgeous bulges hidden by skimpy shorts. I'm almost glad to see that they accept it so well that they are helping themselves to a look! Sort of a vicarious thrill, if you will.

I've long ago accepted that straight and bisexual guys dominate the scene (outside of the fem boys and ladyboys in training) so I always find myself glad to see female interest that the boys can benefit from. After all, how many of them really get offed every night? Rising tide lifts all boats. On an common sense level I put myself in the place of a horny woman and think 'where would I go for hot sex with cute Thai boys?' and 'I'd go to Boyztown, Pattaya' is the answer.

Perhaps what's really going on here is akin to shining a light in a room and having the cockroaches scurry for cover?? I hope not. If so, its probably a reflex from the old days of anything-goes Pattaya. Let them have their fun with Boyztown...it seems as if most of us are moving to Jomtien and Sunee a lot more anyway.

[Beachlover]

By the way, I have no problem with women in gay male discos, in small numbers.

That's interesting. Women in straight clubs are often quite guarded... but bump into them in a gay club and they seem completely relaxed and with their guard down.

I remember standing there watching the show at DJ Station... there were 2-3 young, attractive ladies in front of me. It was quite crowded. The fact one of them was casually grinding into my front and causing an involuntary physical reaction seemed like a moot point. It was like she didn't notice. Or maybe she just thought, "he must be gay...so it's ok to do this"... lol.

BL, you easy slut!

As long as I've ever known, open minded ladies are always super comfortable around gay men and in gay venues because they don't feel like they are one flirty move away from some drunken lout making a move on them. They probably love the opportunity to turn the tables and be the pursuer, the seducer. She probably would have had an orgasm right there if you had leaned in and whispered something like 'wanna go home with me?' in her ear. They always want what they can't have, it seems!

Have you ever been tempted to pick any of them up, just for kicks? I'm assuming your equipment would have been up to the task. One subject I'd love to read about is what a threesome with a farang couple, Thai boy would be like. Wow. Thread for another day, another blog, I'm sure. Dodger, can you help us out???

[Beachlover]

Yes, I have thought about it,. I would have that night but there were so many cute Thai boys around and I already had in mind what I wanted that night... She was extremely attractive so it's not like I was being the easy to get one there lol.


Wow. Thread for another day, another blog, I'm sure. Dodger, can you help us out???

lol... you're overexerting yourself out at just the thought of it.

open minded ladies are always super comfortable around gay men and in gay venues because they don't feel like they are one flirty move away from some drunken lout making a move on them.

A very valid point. I could never understand why women found me attractive and made no secret of it until I realised that women were probably far more aware of my sexual preference than men, for whatever reason (my peers simply saw me as a misogonyst). Half of them were happier to have someone they could trust as a friend or confidant who would not make any moves, and who would also prevent anyone else making any moves, while the other half seemed to see me as some sort of sexual challenge (to "want what they can't have") - unfortunately the latter were without exception by far the least attractive!

until I realised that women were probably far more aware of my sexual preference than men

Is it just a feeling you have or did you ever actually determine you set off gaydar readings around them? Did you ever find out that they thought you were gay all along?

I never gave any clue away for most of my adult life (that I know of) but when I think of the hundreds of gays I've known over the years I can't honestly remember one jerk personality- but maybe some obnoxious behavior. I think the women find the lack of machismo in any guy, straight or gay, welcoming. I mean, so do I. Can't stand cowboys and hooligan types. Ugh.

One of the sweeter things I've seen in Thai society is the way the girls will be so protective of young ladyboy types- especially the ones that just turned into teenagers.

Fag hags seem to have all the best luck the world over!

Fag hags seem to have all the best luck the world over!Yes, even they, incredibly ugly as they usually are, can find a member of the opposite sex who will give them the time of day.

[Shuee]

i would say as the concept of Ladette's seems to be expanding, you will start to see more women in the boy bars, & not sipping shots but downing pints of beer as they become almost or more verbal than some lads, hence the expression; ladette

Is it just a feeling you have or did you ever actually determine you set off gaydar readings around them? Did you ever find out that they thought you were gay all along?..... I think the women find the lack of machismo in any guy, straight or gay, welcoming. I mean, so do I. ...

Mainly a feeling - I have only ever been asked twice if I was gay, both times by female friends (one farang, one Thai) whom I had known for some time and who wanted a "closer" relationship; in the case of the Thai, I was very much a "confidant", godfather to her daughter, and she had wedding bells in mind - and she wasn't after money, as she and her family are well off by any standards. I can only assume that everyone else either didn't know or didn't care (or didn't want to sleep with me!).

It wasn't a "lack of machismo" - the men assumed it was my being a misogonyst as I never had personal female company, if anything with an excess of machismo, while this never crossed the women's minds as they could approach me quite happily without being either rebuffed or having a pass made at them, or being told how macho I was (how many buildings I had abseiled down forwards, how many zip lines I had crossed, or what risks I had taken, for example!).

[catawampuscat]

The manager of a Boyztown area boy massage shop stopped me one day and told me
that two women had taken two of the massage boys and were in a room fucking.. He was
rather excited about the whole thing and I doubt it had happened before.
I can only imagine the other male customers in adjoining rooms or a common shower area
with the sight and sounds of women getting fucked..

The only completely sure bet, not to find women, is a sauna like Babylon in BKK or Sansuk in Pattaya.. :glasses7:

[cdnmatt]

I don't really get it, what's the big deal about straight people being around? Us gay people bitched and complained for decades about being accepted, and now that we're so accepted that straight people are comfortable hanging out in gay venues with us, we're bitching and complaining about that?

So you want gay people to be accepted, but only as long as breeders stay away from you? Sorry, but that makes no sense. That's just being a hypocrite. Why worry about it? I'm sure they know it's a gay venue, so I doubt they'll be too disgusted when they see gay people together.

This is another reason why I like Thailand so much. The vast majority of Thai people I've met don't see me as a "gay guy", but just another typical dickhead living his life. I don't feel like I'm part of some minority in Thailand due to being gay, because Thai people don't treat me like one, and I don't act like one.

[ceejay]

I don't really get it, what's the big deal about straight people being around? Us gay people bitched and complained for decades about being accepted, and now that we're so accepted that straight people are comfortable hanging out in gay venues with us, we're bitching and complaining about that?
I agree with that - up to a point. If the straights are there to see the show on stage, or off the boys for that matter, then so they are. What of it? If, on the other hand, it is just prurient voyeurism and they are there to watch the gay customers "Ooh there were all these gay men in there and they were picking up boys" then I mind a lot. I'm not an exhibit in a zoo, and that is just bloody rude. I wouldn't put up with that from anybody - gay or straight.
Incidentally, about the crocodiles of Taiwanese women on guided tours of Boyztown. Try ostentatiously taking a couple of flash photos of their group - they run :sunny:

[lonelywombat]

My friend who visits a lot more than I do shocks me when he removes a cock from a boys pants and almost JO whilst the show is in progress. WWB, Copa are his favourites. I have to admit almost every boy gets offed.

To me if I tried doing the same thing with str8 women or couples or groups watching , I would die.

My friend who visits a lot more than I do shocks me when he removes a cock from a boys pants and almost JO whilst the show is in progress. WWB, Copa are his favourites. I have to admit almost every boy gets offed.

To me if I tried doing the same thing with str8 women or couples or groups watching , I would die.


I think anyone who behaves like that deserves to be kicked out of the bar.

Must be an animal, is he Australian does he not consider other poeple, oh well I always said "Birds of a feather" some one should knock him out if he is such a selfish slag.

Watch out all you Aussies BottomsUp is calling you all animals who should be 'knocked out'............and this coming from a guy who spends his life on his knees in a public toilet!!!!!!!!

Must be an animal, is he Australian does he not consider other poeple, oh well I always said "Birds of a feather" some one should knock him out if he is such a selfish slag.

Watch out all you Aussies BottomsUp is calling you all animals who should be 'knocked out'............and this coming from a guy who spends his life on his knees in a public toilet!!!!!!!!

ah, so thats what that rant means

Sorry, but that makes no sense. That's just being a hypocrite.

Matt, you've finally worked out what makes some posters here tick - there is hope for you after all!