Taking picture with the boy that you offed from the bar

Do they normally okay with that ? Especially if you want to take them in nude, i meant for an artistic reason of course. Or perhaps they will charge you more for this type of service ? Thanks

[Chuai-Duai]

I almost always photograph the boys I "off". Never had a problem as long as you ask them first before offing.

Some are happy to pose nude and some will just pose in their underwear. Some will ask for an extra tip and some won't. If a boy has posed nicely for me then I always give him extra and make it clear that it's for the photos.

On my last trip I had a guy who would only let me photograph him fully erect as he was obviously rather proud of it. But other guys are completely the opposite and shy about such things.

So I just take each opportunity as it comes and just take what they seem happy with. If they are not keen then it shows in the photos anyway so I'm not interested.

I've got some great photos over the years.

[cdnmatt]

All depends. If it's just a quick photo or two, most probably won't mind a huge amount, although some will. However, if it's a couple hundred shots, and obvious that it's for a porn series, expect them to say they want an extra 5000 - 10,000 baht.

[Beachlover]

"Artistic"... sure lol.

I would not be happy if someone took a photo of me without asking.

One time in Bangkok, a boy I met in a club the night before was in my hotel room. He was a real hottie.

I was sitting on the bed (clothed) and looked up to see him smiling and taking a photo of me with his mobile phone.

I leapt up... wrestled him onto the bed... and got the phone out of his hands. I started going through the menu to find the photo and delete it... but the freaking thing was in Thai!

All this time he was on top of me laughing and saying, "[my name]!... This no good!... Is my phone! Give back!"... while trying to grab the phone. I was wrestling him at the same time while trying to navigate this confounded Thai language menu on a phone I'd never used before (can't even remember the brand). He was laughing at my efforts saying, "hahaha.. .see? Is Thai! You cannot see!"

It was all fun and very playful but under all that I was really serious about deleting the shot! Some people know me and you never know where it will end up.

It took about 10 minutes of wrestling him (I think he got a boner in the middle of it) and navigating the damn Thai language menu at the same time to find the photo... delete it... and make sure it was permanently deleted.

We ended up having sex again... having to take another shower... and me, very late for my flight, having to dash for the airport. I learnt it is actually possible to get from Silom to the airport in under 25 mins if you pray to the Buddha on the dashboard.

[Marsilius]

However, if it's a couple hundred shots, and obvious that it's for a porn series, expect them to say they want an extra 5000 - 10,000 baht.

That may well be what they ask for but it's a sum that is well over the market rate in the industry. I have never been refused when I have offered 3000 baht for a professional shoot.

[Chuai-Duai]

I always offer the boy a set of photos but you will find that most are keen but only want ones that are clothed or a bit discreet.

I never show nude photos to other Go Go Boys and don't show clothed ones without permission. I've been in a bar when a boy handed out explicit photos of himself but that is very much the exception.

If you want to take photos but the boy doesn't speak English try:

"Khor thai roop noi dai mai?" They'll usually get the idea.

[cdnmatt]

However, if it's a couple hundred shots, and obvious that it's for a porn series, expect them to say they want an extra 5000 - 10,000 baht.

That may well be what they ask for but it's a sum that is well over the market rate in the industry. I have never been refused when I have offered 3000 baht for a professional shoot.

Sure you want to be admitting to illegal activities on a public board?

[fedssocr]

However, if it's a couple hundred shots, and obvious that it's for a porn series, expect them to say they want an extra 5000 - 10,000 baht.

That may well be what they ask for but it's a sum that is well over the market rate in the industry. I have never been refused when I have offered 3000 baht for a professional shoot.

Sure you want to be admitting to illegal activities on a public board?

You mean as opposed to all of the many, many people here who publicly admit to "offing" and having sex with prostitutes...also an illegal activity?

And on another subject...
Why not just ask the boy with the cellphone camera to delete the photo he took instead of wrestling him to the bed and snatching his phone away?

[bing]

Good Grief--- Be aware all pics in your cam or on a portable stick or SD are subject to be looked at as you enter back into your country of origin. If you have nude pics with you, you are asking for a hard time. If you send them by email to your home address you can avoid this problem, but just keep in mind it is not good to enter your home country with nude pics of boys who appear to be on the young side.

[Chuai-Duai]

I was stopped years ago when digital cameras were a novelty. I was ushered into a separate room and told that each picture would be inspected and had I got any that were underage?

I said I hadn't and each picture was then called up on the camera display. One officer asked why non of the guys had "chest hair". I said a lot of Thais didn't and that most didn't start shaving until long after a Westerner would.

That was all that was said as the guys were all over 21 and I carried on.

I don't carry the cards in my camera now but I also wouldn't take young looking guy's photos anyway. I suppose if you were really worried about the age you could add a photo of their ID card.

Yes, definitely take precautions. Any time I travel internationally, I make sure that none of my memory cards or cruzers in my possession has any questionable content. Too many stories of curious customs officials.

[jinks]

Questionable pictures can always be sent to a yahoo, hotmail or gmail account and downloaded at home.

Mine, non of which are questionable, are uploaded to one of my hosting servers so that they cannot get lost and do not take up space on my travel computer or camera.

i.e........
The boys outside Tangmo last week.
All with an extra pair of socks in their shorts.

http://www.jinkscorp.com/holidays/thai/phuket/phuket09/images/tangmo1_jpg.jpg

They sometimes agree, especially when you ask in the bar before the off. Remember to be specific about the dress code you expect for the photos. Some seem to quite enjoy it.

Also, it may be an idea to photograph the ID card as proof of age.

VERY good suggestion about photographing the ID card, which hopefully will have a photo that clearly matches the photos you are taking of the boy.

i.e........
The boys outside Tangmo last week.
All with an extra pair of socks in their shorts.

or were they just pleased to see you? :laughing3:

[yedo111]

Just upload all your pictures to msn or any place you can store them and problem solved.

[giggsy]

Or upload them all on here..

[Ron-Heng Vancouver]

Good Grief--- Be aware all pics in your cam or on a portable stick or SD are subject to be looked at as you enter back into your country of origin. If you have nude pics with you, you are asking for a hard time. If you send them by email to your home address you can avoid this problem, but just keep in mind it is not good to enter your home country with nude pics of boys who appear to be on the young side.

You are so right. As of December, Canadian Border officers have been instructed to ask for digital sticks, cameras and computers of males 50+ single, coming from Southeast Asia. Even having in your possession males 'who appear to be under age" is cause for immediate arrest as has been the case.

Not a wise idea to take these photos.

[Marsilius]

Good Grief--- Be aware all pics in your cam or on a portable stick or SD are subject to be looked at as you enter back into your country of origin. If you have nude pics with you, you are asking for a hard time. If you send them by email to your home address you can avoid this problem, but just keep in mind it is not good to enter your home country with nude pics of boys who appear to be on the young side.

Even having in your possession males 'who appear to be under age" is cause for immediate arrest as has been the case.

Hence, as advised earlier and in case you are worried, try to PROVE their age on camera. (1) Take a close-up photograph of their ID card, (2) take a photograph of them holding their ID card with both the card and their face clearly in shot, (3) take a picture of them holding up, next to their face, their ID card and today's Bangkok Post, this week's Pattaya Mail, or something else that proves the pics can't have been taken at an earlier date when they were under-age.

[Ron-Heng Vancouver]

Good Grief--- Be aware all pics in your cam or on a portable stick or SD are subject to be looked at as you enter back into your country of origin. If you have nude pics with you, you are asking for a hard time. If you send them by email to your home address you can avoid this problem, but just keep in mind it is not good to enter your home country with nude pics of boys who appear to be on the young side.

Even having in your possession males 'who appear to be under age" is cause for immediate arrest as has been the case.

Hence, as advised earlier and in case you are worried, try to PROVE their age on camera. (1) Take a close-up photograph of their ID card, (2) take a photograph of them holding their ID card with both the card and their face clearly in shot, (3) take a picture of them holding up, next to their face, their ID card and today's Bangkok Post, this week's Pattaya Mail, or something else that proves the pics can't have been taken at an earlier date when they were under-age.


Further to Canadian law, even "the appearance of being underage" in photos or contact is prima facia for immediate detention, seizure of electronic equipment and further investigation by law enforcement including issuance of search warrants of property .For me, preferring mature men will avoid this painful experience.

(1) Take a close-up photograph of their ID card, (2) take a photograph of them holding their ID card with both the card and their face clearly in shot, (3) take a picture of them holding up, next to their face, their ID card and today's Bangkok Post, this week's Pattaya Mail, or something else that proves the pics can't have been taken at an earlier date when they were under-age.
Very good advice for a professional shoot with a model. But in cases that involve prostitution the boys are well advised to refuse these pictures. Why? Because nobody knows where these pictures will be shown in the future. Would the customer agree that the boy takes the same pictures of the customer with his mobile phone? Never!

[Koh Samui Luv]

You are so right. As of December, Canadian Border officers have been instructed to ask for digital sticks, cameras and computers of males 50+ single, coming from Southeast Asia. Even having in your possession males 'who appear to be under age" is cause for immediate arrest as has been the case.


In Australia a 28 year old was recently found guilty of possession of a Bart Simpson cartoon that was deemed obscene under the child sex laws. He is now also on the pedophile sex registry.

I have long said that many of the men who come to Thailand are looking for boys and girls who in their own country would appear to be between 13 and 16 years old despite the fact that they are 18+. Now countries such as Australia have laws which totally disregard the factual age of a person. It is what age someone appears to be that constitutes the legality of the situation.

The absurdity of this is that even small breasted women, and men who shave their bodies will be guilty of underage sexual activity if photographed by virtue of the definitions of these new laws which are already being enforced.

What a person's age is in fact will be irrelevant and will no longer save you. This has become a trend in the West which was always largely anti-sex to begin with.

Also be aware that if you are from Norway, it is a crime to pay for sex with someone of any age and in any country in the world. This law has been in effect for one year now.

Moral fanatics welcome this trend, and even a few gays do. [attachment=0:3dhtnjia]XXX.jpg[/attachment:3dhtnjia]

[Marsilius]

Now countries such as Australia have laws which totally disregard the factual age of a person. It is what age someone appears to be that constitutes the legality of the situation.

As you come from Australia, I will accept what you say as fact... But what a weird law! Who judges what age a person "appears" to be? After all, a 21 year old Thai man may appear to be only 15 to someone who has never been to Thailand, but to those who have been there or to an expert in the differences in racial physiology - and, more importantly, to Thai people themselves - he will appear to be a typical 21 year old Thai man!

Is it really the law in Australia that, if you produced cast iron proof (genuine ID cards, etc - or even the person himself), you would still be convicted? Of what, exactly? If it is of something like "taking a picture of someone who appears to be under age", can you not refute that by calling an expert who will testify that it is a picture of a normal Thai male who does not, given Thai physical characteristics, look to the informed mind under age at all?

[Koh Samui Luv]

Now countries such as Australia have laws which totally disregard the factual age of a person. It is what age someone appears to be that constitutes the legality of the situation.

As you come from Australia, I will accept what you say as fact... But what a weird law! Who judges what age a person "appears" to be?

Marsilius, someone who uses a quote from Noam Chomsky in his signature should be aware of the fictions and absurdities that many laws are based on. Just quickly I have dug up the following for you in a search. First this, and then the actual text of the law involved. Note that the law states that even a description is a crime. Be careful what you talk about! The man who was found to have cartoons of amusing sexual situations, in this case of Bart Simpson, was convicted and is now a registered sex offender.

"In Australia the National Classification Code dictates that anything that describes or depicts a person who appears to be a child under 18, even if they are an adult, in a way that is likely to cause offence, must be banned. State Criminal Acts are stricter, with for example VictoriaтАЩs, South AustraliaтАЩs and QueenslandтАЩs child pornography laws making depictions of adults that appear to be underage illegal."

Victorian Consolidated Legislation
Database last updated: 23 December 2009
Crimes Act 1958 - SECT 67A
Definitions
67A. Definitions
In this Subdivision-

Child pornography means a film, photograph, publication or computer game that
describes or depicts a person who is, or appears to be, a minor engaging in
sexual activity or depicted in an indecent sexual manner or context.

================================================== ==============
"Well, law is a bit like a printing press -- itтАЩs kind of neutral, you can make it do anything. I mean, what lawyers are taught in law school is chicanery: how to convert words on paper into instruments of power. And depending where the power is, the law will mean different things." -Noam Chomsky, Understanding Power, 2002

[Marsilius]

Thanks for the clarification... I am amazed!

[Art]

http://www.alaska-in-pictures.com/data/media/22/icebreaker-in-antarctica_5671.jpg
Begging for privileges like marriage is less urgent than preventing
the criminalization of pornography, prostitution and consensual sex.

┬╗We overpunish and overcriminalize. To say that we have too much of something implies a standard or baseline by which we can decide whether that amount is too little, not enough, or exactly right. For legal philosophers, justice provides the relevant standard. (тАж) Reasonable persons should anticipate that levels of punishment and amounts of criminal law on this massive scale will prove impossible to justify.┬л Douglas Husak. Overcriminalization: The Limits of the Criminal Law. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2008.

Douglas Husak: The Criminal Law as Last Resort. (Draft, 2002, 52 pages)
┬╗I hope that most philosophers of law agree that stringent conditions need to be satisfied before the state is justified in enacting criminal laws and punishing persons who violate them. In this paper, I will examine one possible such condition: the criminal law should be used only as a last resort. What does this principle mean, how should it be applied, and what reasons might we have to accept it?┬л http://www.law.upenn.edu/academics/institutes/ilp/200203papers/HusakPaper.pdf

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Anselm_von_Feuerbach.jpg
According to the eminent legal scholar
Paul Johann Anselm Ritter von Feuerbach
(1775 тАУ 1833), the father of Ludwig von
Feuerbach (The Essence of Christianity),
there are three principles that have to
govern criminal law without any exceptions:

A. Nulla poena sine lege
B. Nulla poena sine crimine
C. Nullum crimen sine poena legali

Today a law that does not fulfil these conditions must be considered as unconstitutional.

A. Nulla poena sine lege. The Requirement of Certainty: Lex Certa
┬╗The legislature is bound to the [requirement of certainty]: Nullum crimen, nulla poena sine lege certa. The first reason for this requirement concerns legal certainty. A penal stature can only achieve its purpose, namely to function as an authoritative basis for punishability if it defines both the punishable conduct and its consequences тАУ the penalty тАУ with sufficient definiteness тАУ only then can penal statutes be foreseeable and calculable for citizens. penal statutes would of course excavate both the general preventive function and the protective function of criminal law, whereby the protection of individual citizens against judicial arbitrariness is considered to be the decisive constitutional aspect. The requirement of certainty furthermore protects the constitutional competence of the legislature to determine punishability.

The statutory definition of the offense (тАж) is only considered clearcut and definite (тАж) when the conditions for punishability are circumscribed so concretely that the individual subjects of the law had the possibility to adjust their conduct to the legal norm and to recognize the range and applicability of the criminal offense, or find this by means of interpretation.┬л [i]Machteld Boot. Genocide, Crimes Against Humanity, War Crimes: Nullum Crimen Sine Lege and the Subject Matter Jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court. Antwerpen: Intersentia, 2002: 96-97.

B. Nulla poena sine crimine
I will deal with this problem area in more detail in the thread about Alan Turing. For Feuerbach it is not sufficient that a behaviour is criminalized; the law must also protect a specific legal good (Rechtsgut). The bien prot├йg├й par la loi and the harm principle are similar principles designed to limit criminalization.

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ball0888/oxfordopen/02.jpg
John Stuart Mills' (1806-1873) ┬╗On Liberty┬л (1859) ┬╗addresses the nature and limits of the power that can be legitimately exercised by society over the individual. One argument that Mill develops further than any previous philosopher is the harm principle. The harm principle holds that each individual has the right to act as he wants, so long as these actions do not harm others. If the action is self-regarding, that is, if it only directly affects the person undertaking the action, then society has no right to intervene, even if it feels the actor is harming himself.┬л http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Stuart_Mill

┬╗The object of this Essay is to assert one very simple principle, as entitled to govern absolutely the dealings of society with the individual in the way of compulsion and control, whether the means used be physical force in the form of legal penalties, or the moral coercion of public opinion. That principle is, that the sole end for which mankind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of action of any of their number, is self-protection. That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinion of others, to do so would be wise, or even right... The only part of the conduct of anyone, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.┬л http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harm_principle

Theory of Criminal Law: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/criminal-law/ Douglas N. Husak. Limitations on Criminalization and the General Part of Criminal Law. Criminal Law Theory: Doctrines of the General Part. Ed. Stephen Shute and A. P. Simester. Oxford: OUP, 2002. Jerome Hall. General Principles Of Criminal Law. 2nd ed. Indianapolis: Bobbs-Merrill, 1960. The Harm Principle/Legal Good/Bien Prot├йg├й par la Loi: http://www.lareau-law.ca/harm.html

[springco]

┬╗We overpunish and overcriminalize.


This is a great post you have made Art. My compliments.
Watch your back with the "government agent" from Seattle. Always best to watch your ass with those whose motto is "overpunish and overcriminalize".