Farang-Thai vs. Farang-Farang relationships

[cdnmatt]

This one has been bugging me a bit lately, mainly because of how so many people seem to view it. You know, when a farang sees a Thai-Farang couple, the perception many people have is, "oh, so there's the gold digger, and there's the loser who couldn't make it in his home country". You have to admit, that's the first thought that crosses many people's minds. Does anyone else find that frustrating?

I don't know, I guess it's becoming common knowledge throughout my family now that I'm in a serious relationship with a poverty born Thai from Issan, so the rumors are floating, and it's starting to aggravate me. For example, how is this any different than the 99.5% of Western women who search out a good man, who has a good career, and is making good money? Personally, I can't see much of a difference myself, except that the women are far more devious and two-faced in their endeavors.

I'm sorry, and maybe I'm delusional, but it's simply impossible for me to view Kim as a gold digger. Yes, he wants to be taken care of, yes I'm financially responsible, and yes I'm expected to help the family sometimes. I knew that going in, and I'm fine with that. But the same goes for millions of husbands out there, who know by going into a marriage, means they're now financially responsible for everything. How is this any different? You know, if Kim works 60 hours a week at a Thai BBQ restaurant, his monthly wage will be my hourly rate, so obviously I don't expect him to contribute financially. He's only going to work because he's bored, which I think is great. Personally, I would prefer he volunteered to help people, but whatever, his choice.

And the thing is, Kim is has a great heart, excellent morals, and is very upfront and honest (for the most part) about everything. He's the furthest thing from being devious and dishonest, and being someone just trying to extract money from me. I can honestly say with very little doubt that if he was a Thai-Canadian, living in Canada, with a good education, and all the opportunity that we take for granted, we'd still be together. He's basically just some guy who's saying, "well, here I am, here's the hand of cards I was dealt in life, and I'm doing what I can to provide a good life for myself and my family". I'm sorry, but I can think of MANY better examples of a gold digger and manipulator than that.

Another thing that gets me is how some people will naturally look down on Kim, just because he ended up being born a poverty stricken guy in Issan, as if it's his fault or choice, or something. Especially considering two little sperms could have completely reversed the tables on that little situation. And honestly, if people are going to judge that quickly, I'd almost say it says more about them, than it does about us. Not to mention, who are any of these people to pass judgment on us, or anyone else? It's not like they have the path to nirvana all figured out, or anything.

Anyway, does anyone else ever feel the same with their Thai BFs? Or is it just me being bitchy, because I'm sick? :P

[bing]

If some seem to be judgemental about your relatonship, so be it. Why would that bother you? If you are OK with the way things are going with Kim. Celebrate it. Family can be a blessing or a curse depending on their perspective. As for members of this forum, I hope you realize there is nothing you could ever do to keep everyone happy. So the answer is easy, "Do what makes you and Kim happy."

[cdnmatt]

Why would that bother you?

Because they're my family and close friends.

Life is far too short to worry about what others think about your relationship. Let's face it, not too many years ago they would have been judgemental about you for just being gay as well. Enjoy his youth and the relationship, it's your life.

[ceejay]

I don't know, I guess it's becoming common knowledge throughout my family now that I'm in a serious relationship with a poverty born Thai from Issan, so the rumors are floating, and it's starting to aggravate me.
Perhaps that's where the problem (if there is a problem) lies. If the knowledge of your relationship with Kim is being passed by word of mouth amongst your friends and family, rather than coming from you, then the information is incomplete and likely to be infected by rumour and, in short, to become gossip. People tend to fill in the gaps for themselves, and they tend to imagine the worse.
Why don't you tell it the way it is? I'm not normally a fan of family newsletters, but why not put one together telling them you are in a stable relationship with Kim, and telling them how happy you are with that? Real friends will be happy for you if you are happy in yourself.

[Brad the Impala]

As I am English I was brought up to be especially concerned about appearances and "what people think". However it is my boyfriend who has taught me that what people think is their problem, not ours.

I know that our age difference is much greater than yours and undoubtedly casual observers often think, what is that cute young guy doing with that fat old fart, he must be loaded! Well I am not. When we have been together in public sometimes, young guys have tried to pick him up, when I was temporarily away from a table or had gone to the toilet. Their assumption must be that he would be an easy pick up if he is with me, and must be sexually unsatisfied!

In an airport lounge in East Europe he got slipped a note that said "C U in toilet in five minutes"! He sensibly didn't show me the note until we were a long way away! How do we deal with this attitude? We just laugh at it and about it. It's pretty much all you can do. Make it a shared experience, and shared amusement, and it will bring you even closer together.

[Beachlover]

The "looking down" thing is pretty engrained in Asian culture. Wealthy villagers look down on the poorer villages. And the Chinese just look down on everyone else.

The rest of the world seems to look down on Asia. This kind of bugs me but I understand why this is the case. It will change pretty quickly in the coming decades. You look at how hard working and dedicated most of Asia is... and compare it to beer factory workers in Belgium who run riot with little justification and demand to have their comfortable lifelong 9-5 jobs back when let go for commercial reasons... and you get the feeling Asia will leap ahead.

My Thai BF here was an Isaan boy and always seemed to expect me to "look down" on him when I didn't at all. I couldn't win. If I offered to pay for something he would go... "ooooh... you look down on me"... lol.

In reality he's probably achieved more than I have relative to his buddies. He finished uni... started his own business... gave it to his family to manage... worked in a job that took him all over Thailand... then jumped ship to Australia to study/start a new career. All this before the age of 22.

[Beachlover]

I can think of few things worse than for Kim to just work because he's bored. It's great that you'll take care of him... but as a young guy who is still developing... he needs something to work hard for. Whether it's study or a new career.

I really think he needs something he will pursue with the kind of vigour a man who's livelihood is on the line would pursue it with. Not a hobby or something to pass the time. He needs to develop this drive we all develop when our arse is on the line. The kind of energy you might have put into your own career/business earlier on for example.

Otherwise... it's like giving the boy food without teaching him how to fish. He might never have the self satisfaction and assurance you have gained from making your own way. And what happens if you're not there for him?

Most Western guys that I see in long term relationships with younger Thai boys appear to have got themselves stuck with someone who is no longer attractive and let themselves gone to seed.

:idea: The farang is now paying the bills so I can relax and not go to the gym; I can eat & drink whatever I want and whenever I want. :idea:

Maybe the two of them are in what they call 'an open relationship' ... just an excuse for screwing around with someone other than the unattractive guy they've got themselves lumbered with.

Patrick and BL are right.

There's NO DIFFERENCE in your relationship than the normal hetero one. Kim could be tossed out any time, more easily than some Western woman leeches. You surely didn't come here to wonder what the answer to this 'problem' is. This statement alone tells me that you know your choice is right:


And the thing is, Kim is has a great heart, excellent morals, and is very upfront and honest (for the most part) about everything. He's the furthest thing from being devious and dishonest, and being someone just trying to extract money from me. I can honestly say with very little doubt that if he was a Thai-Canadian, living in Canada, with a good education, and all the opportunity that we take for granted, we'd still be together.

Why are you even bother to wonder? You're light years ahead of many of us. Just don't cock it up.

[catawampuscat]

If a man is old enough to be the grandfather or even great grandfather of a lad in
his late teens or early twenties, tongues will wag..
It doesn't matter what the race or ethnicity is...

Reality is that young men do not seek out old men because they are attracted to them
or enjoy their company.. Reality is financial need.
Remember when you were 19 or 22, did
your grandfather's friends turn you on and give you a woody?..

One's friends/family in the West, see the reality, when we old-timers believe it is mutual love
and desire and that our boy/girl is different and that money isn't the main factor..

My attitude is that I am getting exactly what I want and don't have the slightest issue
with some money being distributed to the needy and what I want being offered to me
for a pittance. Reality is that we are invisible to those who are 40 or 50 years younger,
except in place like Thailand where are assets are much more attractive than our asses..

I was given good advice years ago.. When you are talking with your fellow countrymen
and they are living with same-age women/men, they will be very envious of your
sexual relationship with someone many decades younger and hotter than their mate
and you will upset the balances they maintain.
In their minds and secret thoughts,
they want to get on the next plane and fuck their brains out with young sexy partners
and not live sexless married/single lives and only have Internet porn to live out their fantasies... :sex:

You have received some well-thought out replies and that is refershing to see.
It seems to come down to deciding to be happy about the situation yourself and not worrying about what others think. I think you are fortunate to have reached this point.
Yes, I am sure many others are frustrated by concerns about it when (and if) they reach the point you have.
Good luck.

I've known my Thai boyfriend for ten years and I can't say I've encountered any negative reactions to our relationship among friends or family in the UK. My work colleagues enquire about my boyfriend in same way as they do about girlfriends/wives etc.

It's actually my boyfriend who seems to have more hang-ups about how we are perceived by others.

If we are in Thailand and in an area without a commercial Go Go or Gay scene then he's quite happy. Indeed he'll go out of his way to introduce me to anyone who'll listen as "boyfriend me". We certainly can't check into a hotel without the receptionist being made aware of our status.

But he refuses to accompany me anywhere where there's a lively commercial scene. So parts of Bangkok are out as is the whole of Pattaya.

I know he's worried he'll be seen as a "Money Boy" but he really doesn't look like one these days. I think it's only the Farang in such places who'd bother anyway as the Thais don't seem to care.

I think the age difference, which in my case is 20 years, seems to trouble people more than the fact of having a Thai boyfriend.

In the early days friends who saw my boyfriend's photo almost always asked "how old is he?". The unspoken implication was perhaps "is he old enough?". But as he looks more mature these days I don't get the question anymore.

[francois]

This one has been bugging me a bit lately, mainly because of how so many people seem to view it. You know, when a farang sees a Thai-Farang couple, the perception many people have is, "oh, so there's the gold digger, and there's the loser who couldn't make it in his home country". You have to admit, that's the first thought that crosses many people's minds. Does anyone else find that frustrating? :P

Yes, I find the same perception by my friends as frustrating. They cannot seem to accept my relationship with my Thai bf as equal to their own farang-farang relationships. Maybe because there is a large difference in age; I could be his grandfather! But my disposition is the same as expressed by Catawampuscat in his post above.

[Jetsam]

You look at how hard working and dedicated most of Asia is...

Yes Japan , Korea etc, , not Thailand , I think the word opportunist is born there :rolling:

[Smiles]

Anyway, does anyone else ever feel the same with their Thai BFs? [/*:m:1g2p9jzc]
Or is it just me being bitchy, because I'm sick?[/*:m:1g2p9jzc]
No. [/*:m:1g2p9jzc]
Not sure: probably not, but, on the other hand, perhaps[/*:m:1g2p9jzc]

There comes a time when you really have to think about whether or not you're making a mountain out of a molehill. In this case, I think you're well on the way to rebuilding Everest.
You seem to have found some joy in your relationship with Kim. You seem to feel there is a the possibility for a happy future with him . . . and believe me, after recalling your first number of posts on this Board about it, and frankly, thinking you don't have a ghost's chance in hades, I'm gratingly coming around to believe that perhaps you will make it with this guy.
But, inexplicably, you seem to be voluntarily adding to your own baggage by being overly concerned about what others think and feel about it.
I think maybe that if you threw as much inner energy into helping create a a decent future with Kim come about (if that's what you desire), and ignoring what appears to be much more 'gossipy' than it is 'meaningingful' around the periphery, then you'd be doing everyone involved a huge favour.

Or is it just me being bitchy, because I'm sick? :PPretty much.

[PinkSilom]

For example, how is this any different than the 99.5% of Western women who search out a good man, who has a good career, and is making good money? Personally, I can't see much of a difference myself, except that the women are far more devious and two-faced in their endeavors.

And you're complaining that your family have a prejudiced outlook on life!

[Beachlover]

I think cdnmatt is more looking to "get this off his chest" and bounce his thoughts off others (who might possibly relate to it) rather than seeking deep and meaningful answers.

Let's face it... as a young farang entering this kind of relationship with Kim, how many friends and family could he really relate to and talk about this sort of thing with?

I guess this is why many people use this board. To talk about stuff we don't often get to talk to others about.

Me?... None of my mates are gay. Few of them travel as heavily as I do... and I don't really know anyone else who's a big fan of Thailand and the great gay life it has to offer... so this board is a nice outlet for all that.

[Art]

http://vvoice.vo.llnwd.net/e12/2437726.47.jpg

┬╗Why would Swann, son of a wealthy stockbroker, owner of a large estate, at ease in Parisian high society, and quite acquainted with prostitutes, become obsessively, publicly in love with a courtesan?┬л

In ┬╗Eastern Importation of Western Criminal Law: Thailand as a Case Study┬л (1987) Apirat Petchsiri writes:

┬╗Western community members are, therefore, habituated to think that the only appropriate control mechanism in a more advanced society is though the legal channel. тАж Law and state are so much emphasized that any modes of social control not involving these two features are not only considered inadequate but also frowned on.

Norm and value compliance is [also] assured by individual and community concern with the process of maintenance of order and handling of disputes through a variety of methods, e. g., warning, shame, ridicule, settlement directed discussion. Most of the methods aim at a person's moral conscience in the first place; physical and pecuniary coercion are alternatives.┬л

Introducing a lover to family and friends who shows


the wrong sex [/*:m:dhgfw50o]
the wrong past (suspicion)[/*:m:dhgfw50o]
the wrong nose[/*:m:dhgfw50o]
the wrong skin colour[/*:m:dhgfw50o]
the wrong eyes[/*:m:dhgfw50o]
the wrong haircut[/*:m:dhgfw50o]
the wrong software[/*:m:dhgfw50o]
the wrong nose hair management[/*:m:dhgfw50o]
the wrong attitude to fish sauce and finally[/*:m:dhgfw50o]
the wrong religion [/*:m:dhgfw50o]

is a challenging task.

How can they believe you if even ┬╗gay people┬л cannot believe that some young Thais love old Westerners, a fact known as ┬╗amazing Thailand┬л?

Consult some fans of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for an estimate of the necessary number of missionaries you should employ. Or simply enjoy your eccentricity.

Synonyms: queerness, strangeness, oddness, freakishness, aberration. Eccentricity, peculiarity, quirk, idiosyncrasy all refer to some noticeable deviation in behavior, style, or manner from what is normal or expected. Eccentricity usually suggests a mildly amusing but harmless characteristic or style: a whimsical eccentricity in choice of clothing. Peculiarity is the most general of these words, referring to almost any perceptible oddity or departure from any norm: the peculiarity of his eyelashes, of the weather. Quirk often refers to a minor, unimportant kind of oddity: Her one quirk was a habit of speaking to strangers in elevators. Sometimes quirk has overtones of strangeness: sexual quirks. Idiosyncrasy refers to a variation in behavior or manner exclusive to or characteristic of a single individual: idiosyncrasies of style that irritated editors but often delighted readers. (Random House)

The good news? There is still common ground. Old-fashioned (serial) monogamy!

P. S. Thank God you don't try to re-educate Kim. The world were better off with more Kims.

As long as there are people, there will be critic. If you are happy in your relationship with your b/f, I would say it is not important of what other will think.