Romantic retreats in / around Pattaya?

[cdnmatt]

Well, I found out last night that it turns out I'm actually a pretty shitty and oblivious boyfriend. Been together four months, and not once did it enter my feeble mind that he might like some flowers & chocolate, or maybe breakfast in bed, or maybe little notes left around for him, or whatever. Found our last night, when some wedding show came on TV, and he asked if I liked flowers. Of course when I asked him the same, he ended up shy and modest, and just said "nit noy", but you could easily see from his eyes he was really, really hoping I'd do sweet things for him. Poor guy. So now naturally, I feel like a complete cunt, and have some making up to do.

I know "Pattaya" and "romance" is a bit of an oxymoron, but any suggestions on what do to, or where to take him? And we're talking about a typical Issan boy here, who loves being an Issan boy, so 5 star romantic suites at hotels, and fine dining are out of the question. He would hate that. It doesn't have to involve big money either. Sure, he'd like some nice gold jewelery, but that's not what he's after. He just wants to be romanced a little.

Does anyone maybe have any good suggestions for a nice naturistic area within a 2 hour drive from Pattaya, preferably with lush trees, maybe a waterfall or two, etc.? But somewhere natural, not artificial where they planted trees, and made two meter wide walkways. Then maybe a nice guesthouse / cabin / bungalow there that we could rent for a few days? Or anything like that?

Or any other suggestions? How the hell do you romance a guy in this city? It's Pattaya. I guess probably the only way is to leave the city. Maybe go do some island hopping for a week or two.

Oh, and while I'm at it, he has a birthday coming up in six weeks, so anything special I should know for that? From talking to people, it doesn't like Thais up in Issan put much importance on birthdays at all. Then in Pattaya, it's basically just go out with your friends and drink whiskey at a karaoke, then at some point a birthday cake comes out for you. But I can tell, he's really, really looking forward to his birthday too. So any advice you guys can give? Or should I just wing it, and hope I don't fuck it up too much?

[TrongpaiExpat]

http://www.faasai.com/Bungalows.php

or, Ko Chang. The east coast being less developed and hence more romantic.

Ko Samet was romantic 15/20 years ago if you managed to keep the mosquitoes at bay. Now the mosquitoes are gone along with all the romantic ambiance as it developed. You now also have these sea side on the beach candle lit dinner places but it's so full of sunburned farangs on holiday any romantic quality is gone looking at some huge white fat ass with her hubby drinking some tropical drink with the accompanying little umbrella.

[bing]

I understand 5 star restaurants might night be his cup of tea, but a Surf Side table at Cabbage and Condoms Restaurant will be sure to light a fire in him. Be sure to tell the waiter who seats you, that you want an outdoor table by the water. You will love hearing the surf pound on the shore. No doubt your fingers will naturally entwine with his. You might also try the Sugar Hut, I have not been there for a while, but it was a big hit with my Thai friend and tres romantic with the outdoor setting.

[Patexpat]

I understand 5 star restaurants might night be his cup of tea, but a Surf Side table at Cabbage and Condoms Restaurant will be sure to light a fire in him. .

Good call Bing - one my favourite locations for a romantic night out .... also had a very romantic late meal after we both finished work (this was about 1 am) at one of the beach side restaurants in Na Jomtien .... and very reasonably priced too!

[Beachlover]

LOL... if only he knew how much hair you pull out to come up with ideas to make him happy.

What about a beach front bungalow on Koh Samet or something?...

Does anyone maybe have any good suggestions for a nice naturistic area within a 2 hour drive from Pattaya, preferably with lush trees, maybe a waterfall or two, etc.? But somewhere natural, not artificial where they planted trees, and made two meter wide walkways. Then maybe a nice guesthouse / cabin / bungalow there that we could rent for a few days? Or anything like that?

I presume you meant naturalistic, as being naturistic could get you into trouble! Try Tamnanpar (http://www.tamnanpar.com) restaurant (they also have a spa and resort) - a bit "artificial", but the closest you'll get to a restaurant near a waterfall as most are in national parks. There are also plenty of genuine waterfalls worth visiting in that area, such as Khao Chamao - all shown on local maps (and Google maps) and most readily accessible.

My partner and I go to Khao Khitchakut every year for a "pilgrimage" to the temple, situated on top of a hill in the forest and reached after a couple of "interesting" 4x4 drives and a fair walk, but the best time is around March/April when transport is more available during the official pilgrimage season.

You'll find that once you are even only 15 minutes outside Pattaya and away from the beach the world is totally different. Unless you have transport, though, you have a bit of a problem as you will have your driver to think about.


Oh, and while I'm at it, he has a birthday coming up in six weeks, so anything special I should know for that?

Yes - he'll be called up for military conscription in April! Make some plans.

[francois]

I understand 5 star restaurants might night be his cup of tea, but a Surf Side table at Cabbage and Condoms Restaurant will be sure to light a fire in him. Be sure to tell the waiter who seats you, that you want an outdoor table by the water. You will love hearing the surf pound on the shore. No doubt your fingers will naturally entwine with his. You might also try the Sugar Hut, I have not been there for a while, but it was a big hit with my Thai friend and tres romantic with the outdoor setting.

Maybe not! The bf did not like Cabbage and Condoms because we sat near the surf and did not like the food or service. Also did not like food at Sugar Hut. Yes, he is a typical Issan boy.

[Beachlover]

Gotta say... being a gogo boy must really take it out of many of these boys emotionally. Especially when they do it from a young (18/19) age and are the more soft, gentle type.

I was at DJ Station and this boy who had smiled at me a few times during the night came up and started chatting to me.

He was pretty up front saying he was a gogo boy. He used to do it full time but now only a few nights a month. The rest of the time he has a small business he runs with his friends (this is what enabled him to cut back on the nights he works as a gogo boy).

He was a really sweet guy... so what he told me was a bit heart wrenching to hear.

I asked him why he worked as a gogo boy. I was curious. He was very open.

He said, without education... opportunity is very limited for boys in Thailand. He said he could work, maybe in a restaurant or something basic... and earn maybe 6,500 baht per month. Or he can work as a gogo boy and earn 20,000 baht per month.

Then he said something, which really summed it up, "So yes... working gogo boy is good job... but is bad for my heart"

He said, "when I in bar, of course I happy and smile... when I go with customer in room... even they fat or very hairy... I always smiling... but sometime... when I go back to my room... I have to cry". Poor guy.

Looking at him and talking to him... I could tell he was hiding a lot of hurt. On the outside he tried to be happy... smiling with his friends and having fun... but he sure drank a lot (He said he had had 15 drinks that night so far) and underneath you could tell he really wanted someone to genuinely love him and take care of him.

So if you take a gogo boy back...to your room... I hope you treat him well. They are real human beings doing this night after night after night. Boys are resilient creatures by nature... but I really cringe to think of some of the guys these boys have to spent intimate time with.

[cdnmatt]

Ko Chang. The east coast being less developed and hence more romantic.

Checked it out, and looks beautiful, thanks! I think we'll actually do that.


I understand 5 star restaurants might night be his cup of tea, but a Surf Side table at Cabbage and Condoms Restaurant will be sure to light a fire in him.

I agree, Cabbages & Condoms is a pretty nice place ... for me, but no way he'd like it. I can't even take him for a drink at a place like that, let alone a meal. He just stiffens up, becomes shy and modest, and politely waits for us to get the hell out of there.


There are also plenty of genuine waterfalls worth visiting in that area, such as Khao Chamao

Checked it out, and again, looks beautiful. Thanks again!


Farang think too much......just get him something in gold!

Considering everything right now, not a chance. If I bought him gold right now, he'd take that as I view him as a money boy, and would be pissed. The gold thing can happen later.


Gotta say... being a gogo boy must really take it out of many of these boys emotionally. Especially when they do it from a young (18/19) age and are the more soft, gentle type.

Aye. We actually had (another) big talk about this last night. Personally, I think the shelf life for a younger go-go boy to retain his sanity is 2 - 3 years. After that, they've permanently changed, and not for the better. Thankfully, my guy seems to now fully realize and believe that if he stays in Pattaya too long, he'll become just like his friends. Before he'd just laugh it off, as if there's no way that could ever happen to him. Seems to realize it now though, so we're moving to Khon Kaen shortly, which is good.

[Smiles]

" ... Thankfully, my guy seems to now fully realize and believe that if he stays in Pattaya too long, he'll become just like his friends. Before he'd just laugh it off, as if there's no way that could ever happen to him. Seems to realize it now though, so we're moving to Khon Kaen shortly, which is good ... "
Huge mistake.

[cdnmatt]

Why do you say that? You're thinking the family might find their way over, and move in? I'm not too worried about that. Mama lives an hour away with the step-dad, and I very highly doubt she's willing to move anywhere, although I'm sure weekly visits to/from will happen. His two younger siblings live with the biological father, who sounds like a complete cunt, so I guess there's a small chance they might find their way over, but I doubt it. Even if that happens, I'm fine with it.

Anything else I should be aware of? I know Pattaya is no place for him.

[Smiles]

" ... Why do you say that? You're thinking the family might find their way over, and move in? ... "
No Matt, I'm not thinking of anything as cliche(d) or stereotyped as that. The sick buffalo story is as hoaried an urban myth if ever there was one. Think slightly deeper.

[cdnmatt]

Guess I'm just too shallow minded. Give me a hint. Please?

[Beachlover]

Aye. We actually had (another) big talk about this last night. Personally, I think the shelf life for a younger go-go boy to retain his sanity is 2 - 3 years. After that, they've permanently changed, and not for the better. Thankfully, my guy seems to now fully realize and believe that if he stays in Pattaya too long, he'll become just like his friends. Before he'd just laugh it off, as if there's no way that could ever happen to him. Seems to realize it now though, so we're moving to Khon Kaen shortly, which is good.

Khon Kaen? Wow... interesting move. Great that you are moving out of Pattaya but Khon Kaen might be a little quiet.

Oh well... it'll be interesting... after years living in big cities you might enjoy a more chilled out and less foreign friendly place.

Worse case scenario.. it's not a permanent move... you can always move on if it doesn't work out.

Matt, for that something special how about a balloon trip?

The Third Pattaya Balloon Festival takes place next weekend (10-13 December) at the University campus behind Bira Circuit on Route 36. Plenty to see and do (kite flying displays, freefall displays, parakites, evening concerts, etc) plus balloon flights morning and evening. You need to book your flight (5,000 baht per person per flight) and it is pretty much a matter of luck (and wind) how long your flight is and where you go. Our first flight went due West and unfortunately only lasted about 20 minutes as our French pilot was terrified of ditching in the sea (in reality a long way away); our second was with an experienced Thai pilot who knew the area (he lived in the district) and lasted an hour and a half and, due to the favourable winds, we flew over our local district and landed in a field a couple of minutes walk from our house.

We've been to the last two and will be going again this year - but don't let that put you off!



... we're moving to Khon Kaen shortly, which is good ...

I wouldn't dismiss it quite as strongly as Smiles - after all, if you are talking about Khon Kaen the city rather than the province, plenty of old farangs choose to retire there and they enjoy the "small world" expat lifestyle. Presumably you have also been there a few times to do your homework and spent a few weeks there already before deciding to move, and you have also already checked out whatever you and Kim have planned for his future in the way of schools and/or work for him and got things lined up to keep him occupied.

[Brad the Impala]

Matt, for that something special how about a balloon trip?

The Third Pattaya Balloon Festival takes place next weekend (10-13 December) at the University campus behind Bira Circuit on Route 36. Plenty to see and do (kite flying displays, freefall displays, parakites, evening concerts, etc) plus balloon flights morning and evening. You need to book your flight (5,000 baht per person per flight) and it is pretty much a matter of luck (and wind) how long your flight is and where you go. Our first flight went due West and unfortunately only lasted about 20 minutes as our French pilot was terrified of ditching in the sea (in reality a long way away); our second was with an experienced Thai pilot who knew the area (he lived in the district) and lasted an hour and a half and, due to the favourable winds, we flew over our local district and landed in a field a couple of minutes walk from our house.


What an exciting and interesting idea! However did you manage to decide it was safe enough for you? Did you check that all the ropes were suitable for their proposed use? How about Insurance? I don't expect that this activity is covered under your own policy.

Curious that when others mention exciting and interesting ideas (http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g293917-d1021770-Reviews-Flight_of_the_Gibbon_Treetop_Adventure-Chiang_Mai.html), you are quick to piss (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand/flight-the-gibbon-anyone-t18665.html?hilit=insurance) on them..... but somehow the cautions aren't necessary when you originate the suggestion. At least propane isn't required to get the balloons airborne when you are on board. Hot air should suffice!

[byjos]

Yes, for eating, at the end of Jomtien beach road! They realy like that for good sea food!!! If u want, take your wine with you, no problem.

[Smiles]

" ... and you have also already checked out whatever you and Kim have planned for his future in the way of schools and/or work for him and got things lined up to keep him occupied ... "
. . . . and yourself as well.
If you're serious about such a move perhaps it's not a bad idea to think about your own bottom line(s) as well: what will keep you interested, entertained, curious, in love, reasonably busy.

Our bottom lines when I retired were these: (1) That it NOT be Pattaya, Bangkok, Phuket or his home village. (2) That it be on a clean beach. (3) That there be goodly amounts of 'farang' money lying around and be busy enough to support his tour guide/taxi business.
None of those items on that list are particularly existential ... they are simply practical, and, most importantly, take into consideration both our happiness quotients on a equal, stand-alone basis. For the success of the long term relationship, mutual happiness is paramount.

If you can find personal happiness out in the sticks (and Khon Kaen is Stick Central) then go for it. But I suggest you think seriously about devising a few of your own bottom lines first.

[cdnmatt]

Ohhh, that's what you meant. Yeah, no worries there. Come on though, Khon Kaen city is hardly "in the sticks". It's bigger than Pattaya, has an airport with daily flights to Bangkok, smallish expat community, and one of the best universities in Thailand. Not to mention, there's tons of excellent nature and (Thai) mountains around. It might not have go-go bars, or karaokes that stay open until 6am, but nonetheless, there's tons to do there. Besides, for the past 9 years I've always had two months of work sitting infront of me that needs to be done yesterday, so I always have something to do.

I know it'll be a bit of an adjustment getting used to the day-to-day Thai life, instead of the farang version of Thai life, but that's something I'm looking forward to. Except I don't know if I'll ever get used to Thai whiskey. Christ, what do they put in that stuff?


take into consideration both our happiness quotients on a equal, stand-alone basis.

For our particular situation, I don't necessarily agree. Simply because he's younger, is still forming himself, and has had a pretty rough life. So having stability and being close to family is going to benefit him far more than me. Not to mention, I'm 28 and besides living in Vancouver for 18 months, I haven't lived in one place for more than 10 months since I was 15, so moving around is no problem for me. I can usually adapt without much problem nowadays. :-)

Thanks for explaining what you meant though!


Matt, for that something special how about a balloon trip?

Thanks again for the suggestion, but not a chance. I can't even get him on a go-kart, let alone sailing through the air in a hot air balloon. He'd be terrified. Hope you and your guy have a good time though!

[Beachlover]

I don't know if I'll ever get used to Thai whiskey. Christ, what do they put in that stuff?


Sandpaper? I swigged a glass a few nights ago. It took about 15 minutes to actually go down my throat. Sure is cheaper than Johnnie though.


I can't even get him on a go-kart, let alone sailing through the air in a hot air balloon. He'd be terrified.

Awww... that's sweet.

[cdnmatt]

Sandpaper? I swigged a glass a few nights ago. It took about 15 minutes to actually go down my throat. Sure is cheaper than Johnnie though.

If you had a glass of it, then we're thinking two different things. The small road-side stalls you see all over the place, with largish jars of whiskey in them. You don't get a glass though. Just a bottle of whiskey, a shot glass, and a jug of water for a chaser.

I don't know what they put in that stuff, but 80 baht worth, and you're so drunk you can't walk straight. I was stupid enough to drink the stuff the past two nights in a row.

What an exciting and interesting idea! However did you manage to decide it was safe enough for you? ...
Curious that when others mention exciting and interesting ideas (http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g293917-d1021770-Reviews-Flight_of_the_Gibbon_Treetop_Adventure-Chiang_Mai.html), you are quick to piss (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand/flight-the-gibbon-anyone-t18665.html?hilit=insurance) on them..... but somehow the cautions aren't necessary when you originate the suggestion....

Brad, to describe you as an arsehole would be insulting to something some here appreciate.

What may be "safe enough" for me may not be "safe enough" for others, so I err on the side of caution when recommending or commenting on some activities - this includes advising others to check their medical insurance first, as many such activities are not covered by a "standard domestic policy", as you allege. The organisers at the balloon festival give a similar warning when booking a flight, so it was unnecessary here. To encourage anyone not to check their insurance is, to me, simply stupid.

Balooning is covered by CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) regs, so as an out of date pilot (PPL D - MPL) - but not a balloonist - I have a reasonable idea of the safety requirements for the balloons and the experience and training of the pilots.

I did not "piss" on anyone else's ideas - I pointed out that anyone doing so should check their insurance first and that FOTG was designed more for Asians than "farangs" - correctly, as FOTG confirmed the maximum weight allowance - 130 kg including equipment. When my knowledge on the subject was challenged incorrectly after I pointed out some relatively minor safety errors FOTG confirmed (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand/sorry-was-wrong-t18724.html?hilit=extensive#p192260) that my observations were correct and that they had "read (my) background - definitely extensive (http://www.bmg.org.uk/index.php/eng/Members)".

I have no intention of giving you any of my personal details so that you can check them.

I can see little point in talking to plant life any longer - I am not Prince Charles and I am sure that it is as boring for everyone else here as it is for me, so in future unless someone else asks I will be giving your posts as little attention as the majority here do.

Gotta say... being a gogo boy must really take it out of many of these boys emotionally. Especially when they do it from a young (18/19) age and are the more soft, gentle type..... So if you take a gogo boy back...to your room... I hope you treat him well. They are real human beings doing this night after night after night. Boys are resilient creatures by nature... but I really cringe to think of some of the guys these boys have to spent intimate time with.

BL, for once I agree with you completely, although I would not say that it applies to all by any means (not that I know them all!) particularly if, like Matt, you think that "the shelf life for a younger go-go boy to retain his sanity is 2 - 3 years. After that, they've permanently changed, and not for the better". I have known quite a few who have been "in the business" for several years and who are amongst the most pleasant and honest people you could hope to meet and who look on it as just another job - nothing more, nothing less.

While you (and I) may "really cringe to think of some of the guys these boys have to spent intimate time with" we would also probably "cringe" at many of the other things they do and have done and take for granted as simply part of life. 25 years ago I unexpectedly found myself in charge of two boatloads of Vietnamese refugees; while the first were fishermen and "economic migrants" the second were "hi-so" (to use the Thai term - for example they all spoke fluent French). By the time their boat sank as they were being picked up by a passing tanker they had been stopped several times by pirates in the South China Seas; all the men had been thrown overboard and drowned, the women and children had been all been repeatedly raped, and they had been left adrift with no water, food or fuel. Physically they were in a very bad way, all had STDs, and out of an original 60 only 20 were left alive; although a few had emotional /mental problems (I remember two 7 year old twin boys were so traumatised they could not speak for the two months I was responsible for them), most rationalised it and looked on it as just part of life and better than the alternative at the time.

It is often difficult for those of us from the West, particularly those from comparatively privileged backgrounds, to put ourselves in the position of those from very different cultures and backgrounds. While I agree 100% that there is no reason not to treat anyone well (with the exception of a few posters here), I also feel that it is as much the sympathy that some individuals and organisations feel compelled to gush at one extreme as the way that those at the other extreme feel compelled to despise or demean them that is responsible for the emotional problems they have.




.....underneath you could tell he really wanted someone to genuinely love him and take care of him.

Don't we all?

Khon Kaen city is hardly "in the sticks" ... one of the best universities in Thailand .... there's tons of excellent nature and (Thai) mountains around..... tons to do there.

Much like the area around Pattaya in many ways then!

It was not so much whether you will find enough to keep you occpied that I was thinking about, as Kim. The devil finds work for idle hands and unless he has something interesting and constructive to do while you are working you could find that his getting drunk with his friends at 6am is the least of your worries.

Good luck, and I genuinely hope it works out for both of you (and the balloon festival may be worth a visit even if you do not go up yourselves!)

[cdnmatt]

It is often difficult for those of us from the West, particularly those from comparatively privileged backgrounds, to put ourselves in the position of those from very different cultures and backgrounds.
,
I'm sorry, but I've gotten to know way too many guys on a one-on-one basis to believe that "ohhh, no problem, it's a different culture so it's ok" crap any more. After you get bought and sold a couple thousand times by complete strangers who for the most part have no respect, love, or empathy for you, it's going to take its emotional toll on you, regardless of culture.

Even Kim says the same thing after living here for 5 months, and he's Thai himself. That, and you just get to know some of these guys, and it's blaringly obvious how the sex trade has affected them. I'm sorry, but it defies human nature to be able to brush that stuff off as if it doesn't matter.

You know, Pattaya is a great place for a holiday; it's filled with fun, excitement, adventure, everyone is happy and smiling, and it's a great break from the West. I've found though that if you spend too much time here, and get to know too many people, this city quickly turns into a sespool of misery, loneliness, and heartache. Almost nobody is happy on the inside though; farang and Thai alike, but especially Thai. Sure, they go out, party, drink with big smiles on their faces, but almost nobody around these parts is actually content and fulfilled with their lives.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem whatsoever with the sex trade. It's always existed, always will, and I have no qualms about it at all. But still, as Beachlover implied, at least be aware of what you're doing.

[cdnmatt]

It was not so much whether you will find enough to keep you occpied that I was thinking about, as Kim. The devil finds work for idle hands and unless he has something interesting and constructive to do while you are working you could find that his getting drunk with his friends at 6am is the least of your worries.

hehe, aren't you the same guy who was giving me hell a month or two ago, saying I need to trust him more? :P

No worries though, as he already knows he must do something with himself. Get a job, help mama & step-dad on the farm, goto school, volunteer at the orphanage, volunteer with an NGO, or whatever. I don't care, as long as it's something, and makes him happy. I'd prefer he becomes a student, but I can only persuade him so much without becoming a controlling asshole, so it's up to him. He agrees though, he needs to do something with his time.

Don't worry, he's not going to join the mafia and start selling drugs, or start offering his body to farangs, or anything like that. :-)

hehe, aren't you the same guy who was giving me hell a month or two ago, saying I need to trust him more?

Only in the context of it being a two way street - not in terms of leaving it "up to him", which I've already given you my views on.


Don't worry, he's not going to join the mafia and start selling drugs .....

It wasn't the selling I was worried about.

If you want to get away from the main stay in Pattaya this is a nice place to either stay or drive out to for a meal and a swim in their pool or on their beach.

http://www.pattaya.bangkok.com/pattaya-sea-sand-sun/

[thrillbill]

(was a secret) For a romantic view of Pattaya Bay at night, go to soi 22 Naklua (soi along the side of Woodlands Hotel) and go straight down to the public veranda access along the beach. At the veranda look out, there is seating and one can take out a bottle of wine (or your Isaan BF will want LEO???) and enjoy the tranquility.

[pong]

dear cdnmatt-even though I have not been to PTY since 2001-so have nothing to advice, I just wanted to say how very clear and to the point you bwere able to present your Question and your thinking about it.
For general info on Koh Chang-big island, google for a site like whitesandspublications-they do a quarterly info-booklet on it and list all current stays and eats and transport info.