Converting to Buddha

I have been a life long roman catholic but I am now disillusioned, lapsed and looking for something else to fill the need I have for belief.
I have now lived in Thailand for about 3 years and I respect the belief system of Buddhism. I want to know and understand more.
Has anyone here converted to the local faith?
Can anyone recommend an Enlish speaking Buddhist Monk or Abbot that I can discuss my spiritual needs with?

[Bob]

While I admire the "buddhist" way in many respects, I simply wouldn't have the inclination to replace my prior indoctrination with another one. But to each his own.

Here in Chiangmai, every week they have a session at one of the important temples here (Wat Chedi Luang) where some of the monks talk to falang in English and I'm sure that'd be a good place to start if you were up here. And maybe that occurs at other locations in Thailand too. If nobody knows about that type of thing wherever you happen to be, why not simply go to a large temple and simply ask if they have a monk or two with whom you could converse in English? I'll bet you'll find one.

why not simply go to a large temple and simply ask if they have a monk or two with whom you could converse in English.

People are always thrilled when you take an interest in their religion. I attended a few services at a Zen temple here in the States and they were very welcoming, even if you're merely curious.

[yaraboy]

One of the nice things about Buddhism is that you do not need to convert. Study Buddhism (tons of books available) then call yourself a Buddhist if you embrace the main tenets. I am sure a monk would give you a conversion blessing if you wanted one .

You might try this for some leads, though the resources seem to be more academic than spiritual: http://answers.google.com/answers/threa ... 15236.html (http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/15236.html)

I am also a non-practising Catholic. My impression, for what it's worth, is that after you strip away the superstition and human-inspired formalties of any of the major religions, what you wind up with is a code of conduct for living in harmony with the rest of humankind.

Not sure if there is a great deal of "belief" involved in Buddhism. No need to believe in any historical or supernatural personnage.

Advocates of meditiation, Buddhist and otherwise, claim that it produces a calming, even enlightening effect, and that may be very helpful no matter what your religious background is.

And a bit of Googling will help you find Buddhist meditation centers in Thailand for English-speaking participants, with sessions lasting from 3 days to a week or more, and generally requiring silence and introspection throughout the period. Something like that might help you to figure out exactly what your spiritual needs are and how they can be met.

And, as yaraboy says, there's really no conversion required, no need to disavow Catholicism and embrace Buddhism. Just agree to the Buddhist teachings and you can consider yourself among the faithful.

Good Luck.

And, as yaraboy says, there's really no conversion required, no need to disavow Catholicism and embrace Buddhism. Just agree to the Buddhist teachings and you can consider yourself among the faithful.I can state quite unequivocally that Buddhists don't believe that promiscuous sodomites can attain nirvana either. As for "what is promiscuous" I refer you to the inconvenient truth I mentioned in my response to Surfcrest in another post.

I had never heard that Buddhism excluded homosexuals, but I'm not an expert on Buddhism, so please clarify. Are all sodomites excluded from Nirvana, or just the promiscuous sodomites?

Another clarification needed: Is "Buddhists don't believe that promiscuous sodomites can attain nirvana " the same as "Buddhism doesn't teach that promiscuous sodomites can attain nirvana" ?

[cdnmatt]

I had never heard that Buddhism excluded homosexuals, but I'm not an expert on Buddhism, so please clarify. Are all sodomites excluded from Nirvana, or just the promiscuous sodomites?

I could easily be wrong on this, as I'm just going off what I've heard from other Thais and farangs, but no, Buddhism doesn't exclude homosexuals at all. However, being gay is viewed as an imperfection, caused by you screwing up in a past life, hence why you can never attain nirvana.

Again, don't quote me on that though, as it's just what I've heard. I was raised in North West Canada, so religion isn't exactly high on my priority list.

[allieb]

Reigion is a tool used by corupt governments to controll the uneducated and poor. Having said that its up to you if you join the sheep. Beliefs are another thing, most religions follow a basic set of rules similar to the 10 comandments. Follwing the rules is a good thing but going to deep will bring out extremism in any religion. My advise if you go there is practice but don't preach.

I live in a musim country whilst I admire some of the teachings I despise others. Three years into my life here I was full of admiration. Now 25 years later I have somewhat changed my mind .

As I told Surfcrest

....and oh...how about the non-promiscuous sodomites?The Beloved Disciple is here with me in Heaven. However you will recall that during my Earthly ministry I said "Whoever looks at someone with lust in their heart has comitted adultery already". I think that visiting the fleshpots where almost naked young male flesh disports itself for sale almost certainly puts you in the "lust in their heart" category. Threading a needle is not easy, you know - it requires patience and practice and a lack of distraction. I trust I have been of service to you today.The Dalai Lama who I'm told is a leading Buddhist authority has said that each orifice in the body has a sole purpose, so that while homosexual desires are not as such sinful there is no male orifice into which another male can properly insert his member without violating its purpose.

Dad disapproves of me mentioning Buddhism because they don't believe in Him. You'd think the Buddha wrote the Book of Eccesiastes the way he carried on sometimes. "Vanity, vanity, all is vanity" is one of his sayings too.

As a dissatisfied Catholic and someone looking for answers...just stay clear of Dhammakaya. The "born again" branch of Buddhism in Thailand. Everything there is made with subliminal messages that all lead to extract money from people. They have studied the American evangelist movments and perfected them!
My boyfriend attends their temple and it is a very expensive process: there is only salvation by donations to the temple. They have their own TV station. media centers.... All the nouveau riches go there. The more you donate the more you will receive back. You will be amazed at the "BS" that is generated there for the believers.
They can tell you that all your miseries in this life originates because you were bad in a previous life....your mother died of cancer because she killed too many chickens etc....
The more money you give the more chance you will be reborn in a richer family next life....
They have solid gold stautes of the old monk that would make Rome jealous.
Take a tour of their new 1km x 1km temple: it will hold 1 million persons....all under the excuse of building the world peace center.
Not to mention that Mr (deposed)is a big supporter...so I think it makes them impervious to government scrutiny....would love to see their books!
People with pay TV: have a look at DMC TV.
Now i don;t deny that meditation and buddhism teaching are good but watch out !

[Bob]

....there is only salvation by donations to the temple.

Now I know why there just seemed to be something "buddhist" about the traffic cops... :protest:

Yeah, stay away from organized religion. It's just fund raising. Find yourself someone able to answer your questions, read some books. Even the internet can be helpful. As others have suggested, exchanging one religion for another is probably not a solution. Just look for those ethical elements in any religion and see if they fit you. Then practice on your opwn.

Still can't figure out why poster above, on a gay forum, is campaigning against sodomy. His post appears to be misdirected - or maybe he belongs to a gay sect that does not allow fucking?

Still can't figure out why poster above, on a gay forum, is campaigning against sodomy. His post appears to be misdirected - or maybe he belongs to a gay sect that does not allow fucking?You misunderstand my Message, bob - I am against promiscuity, not sodomy. I was pointing out that lesser religions, such as Buddhism, have some very strange beliefs indeed. Perhaps you find it difficult to comprehend that you will be burning in Hell for eternity if you don't give up bar-hopping?

Perhaps you find it difficult to comprehend that you will be burning in Hell for eternity if you don't give up bar-hopping?

There are plenty of Christians that don't believe in a literal hell, so I hope you're not expecting agnostics to believe in it.

[cdnmatt]

Perhaps you find it difficult to comprehend that you will be burning in Hell for eternity if you don't give up bar-hopping?

Not difficult, just impossible to comprehend. If God actually exists, the guy is a psychopath who's horrible at his job. This earth is his perfect creation, and the best he could do? If I was his project manager, I'd fire his ass instantly.

Still can't figure out why poster above, on a gay forum, is campaigning against sodomy. His post appears to be misdirected - or maybe he belongs to a gay sec

Same old, same old, same old. Poster, butthole, issues, mis-information ...

To Patrick's "first post": Buddhism is not based on faith in a "belief". If you are looking for faith-based religions try Islam or Judaism. Also, there are THOUSANDS of individual Christian denominations that you might research, perhaps one of those is closer to your particular beliefs. Perhaps you can be more specific as to what those beliefs are?

So I guess what Miso is saying is that in his belief system/religion, fucking is OK if you are monogamous. I honestly can't think of any religion that approves monogamous homosexuality but condemns promiscuous gay sex. Or maybe IтАЩve been too busy bar hopping to notice the changes in religious teaching.

HmmmтАж. All the gay farangs in Thailand practicing monogamous sex. Even allowing for death/"divorce" of partners, it seems like that would put a lot of bar boys out of work.

Sorry, Miso, I just canтАЩt take your approach seriously. Maybe another poster can explain your logic.

[Dboy]

Although not strictly "Thai" Buddhism (Theravada), you might be interested in this:

http://www.dhamma.org/en/bycountry/ap/th.shtml


dboy

[Smiles]

" ... As a dissatisfied Catholic ... "
I've said it before and I'll say it again, coitus interruptus plays havoc with Catholics (especially the dissatisfied ones), the plumbing, and the psyche. My suggestion would be to run away from any Buddhist who gets the least bit squeamish about cumming in your mouth.

I have now lived in Thailand for about 3 years and I respect the belief system of Buddhism. I want to know and understand more. Has anyone here converted to the local faith? Can anyone recommend an Enlish speaking Buddhist Monk or Abbot that I can discuss my spiritual needs with?

It depends where you live - Thailand is a big place with a lot of temples!

Quite a few farangs are Buddhists, but as Theravadan Buddhism precludes preaching to convert and evangelism (one of the many reasons why Dhammakaya is so controversial here, as it is Mahayanan in many of its ways) and emphasises finding your own path you will have to do the legwork for yourself.

If you are in/near Pattaya try Djittabhawan College, the Buddhist University on Sukhumvit Road, North of Naklua just before the 36 turnoff, or Wat Yangsangwararam (spellings vary!) near Ban Amphur South of Pattaya - both often have farang monks.



I could easily be wrong on this, as I'm just going off what I've heard from other Thais and farangs, but no, Buddhism doesn't exclude homosexuals at all. However, being gay is viewed as an imperfection, caused by you screwing up in a past life, hence why you can never attain nirvana.

No, Matt, you are quite correct.

I could easily be wrong on this, as I'm just going off what I've heard from other Thais and farangs, but no, Buddhism doesn't exclude homosexuals at all. However, being gay is viewed as an imperfection, caused by you screwing up in a past life, hence why you can never attain nirvana.

No, Matt, you are quite correct.

I think the never in that statement would prevent most people from making an effort, would it not?

Decades old issues! (yawn!)

HH often misquoted on his remarks pertinent to monastic traditions.


Dalai Lama urges 'respect, compassion, and full human rights for all,' including gays

by DC
Bay Area Reporter, June 19th, 1997

The Dalai Lama, world-revered leader of millions of Buddhists and leader of the Tibetan people, spoke out strongly against discrimination and violence against lesbians and gays during an extraordinary Wednesday, June 11 meeting in San Francisco with lesbian and gay Buddhists, clergy, and human rights activists.

The religious leader said at the press conference that he had previously been asked his views on gay marriage, and said that such social sanction of gay relationships "has to be judged in the context of the society itself and the laws and social norms."

During the 45-minute meeting, the Nobel peace laureate and Buddhist religious leader voiced his support for the full recognition of human rights for all people, regardless of sexual orientation.

<<snip>>

From a "Buddhist point of view," lesbian and gay sex "is generally considered sexual misconduct," the Dalai Lama told reporters at a press conference a day earlier. However, such proscriptions are for members of the Buddhist faith - and from "society's viewpoint," homosexual sexual relations can be "of mutual benefit, enjoyable, and harmless," according to the Dalai Lama.

"His Holiness was greatly concerned by reports made available to him regarding violence and discrimination against gay and lesbian people. His Holiness opposes violence and discrimination based on sexual orientation. He urges respect, tolerance, compassion, and the full recognition of human rights for all," said Office of Tibet spokesman Dawa Tsering in a statement issued within an hour of the meeting.

Buddhism is a tradition of tolerance.

In addition I quote notes from an interview with the spiritual czar of the Gelugpa order:


"Homosexuality seems to be getting more common in the world these days. Homosexuality,
like heterosexuality, are both activities of samsara. Neither seems to be particularly better or
worse than the other. Whether a man or woman is straight or gay does not make him or her
any particularly better or worse than the other. In general, both are activities of lay people.
Not that, however, that there is no karma involved in homosexuality, only that it is just like
heterosexuality, another activity of samsara."

The topic is about being Buddhist and gay.
In a 1993 talk given in Seattle, the Dalai Lama said: nature arranged male and female organs "in such a manner that is very suitable... Same-sex organs cannot manage well." But he stopped short of condemning homosexual relationships altogether, saying if two people agree to enter a relationship that is not sexually abusive, "then I don't know. It's difficult to say."

The Dalai Lama was more specific in a meeting with Buddhist leaders and human rights activists in San Francisco in 1997, where he commented that all forms of sex other than penile-vaginal sex are prohibited for Buddhists, whether between heterosexuals or homosexuals. At a press conference the day before the meeting, he said, "From a Buddhist point of view, [gay sex] is generally considered sexual misconduct." But he did note that this rule is for Buddhists, and from society's viewpoint, homosexual relationships can be "of mutual benefit, enjoyable, and harmless." http://www.religionfacts.com/homosexuality/buddhism.htm

On the other hand Dad's worshippers in the Episcopal tradition have consecrated a monogamous gay bishop although some have found even that controversial.

Miso: It doesn't seem like the Dalai Lama is saying anything about (any kind of) homosexual activity leading to the eternal fires of Hell, as promised in your post above.

[cdnmatt]

I could easily be wrong on this, as I'm just going off what I've heard from other Thais and farangs, but no, Buddhism doesn't exclude homosexuals at all. However, being gay is viewed as an imperfection, caused by you screwing up in a past life, hence why you can never attain nirvana.

No, Matt, you are quite correct.

I think the never in that statement would prevent most people from making an effort, would it not?

Ehhh, depends on how you look at it. Not attaining nirvana is a bit better than getting physically stoned to death, don't you think? :-)

Besides, I don't think many Thais are too worried about attaining nirvana. Too much "mai bpen lai" going around.

are prohibited for Buddhists

'93? We are reaching back? And that particular statement is just the author of the web page's interpretation of what he said, and not backed up by specific quotes, and just blindly repeated by yourself. It holds no water.

From the same article ...

Buddhist monks are expected to live lives of celibacy, meaning abstinance from any type of sex.

If you want to go out of your way to twist religious literature you interpret to be condemning of gays then you might waste less time starting with the Bible.

Most Thais I know tell me that just having been born in Thailand is seen as an imperfection from previous lives. So gay or straight, just make the best of it! :bounce:

The topic is about being Buddhist and gay.

No it isn't. You can't read.
The topic is about converting from one religion to another and asking advice from those who may have already done so.
There was no mention of gay; no mention of smooth, golden brown skin; the sweet smell of adolescent sweat, firm, pert buttocks; soft intimate touching or any such thing.

[youtube:3kl4u21t]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk24Pktt41Q[/youtube:3kl4u21t]

No, no, no, no, no. Just a question about conversion. That's all. Period.

Most Thais I know tell me that just having been born in Thailand is seen as an imperfection from previous lives.

Makes me wonder where they wanted to be born. The whole world is fucked up, just in different ways. The more that I travel, the more that I see it.

So is the woman's pussy for peeing, fucking, or giving birth?

:sign5:

[Up2U]

OP, you can learn more about Buddhism and converting here on the DMC (Dhama Media Channel) Buddhist satellite television channel. I believe Sophon carries it or you can buy your own dedicated satellite dish at reasonable costs. You see Thais often watching this channel and they have English programming too.

http://www.dmc.tv/index.php?lang=en

[allieb]

So is the woman's pussy for peeing, fucking, or giving birth?

:sign5:


None of the above,It's a warning devise. It just gives off a very nasty odor. A warning to keep clear and stay away.

[Beachlover]

Well... whatever move you make, moving away from Roman Catholicism is the right direction...

Well... whatever move you make, moving away from Roman Catholicism is the right direction...

Not a good idea to disparage anyone's religion or church. That being said, most religions start out with the intention of providing a set of precepts for helping people to live together peacefully (in time periods when governments/laws were weak, the churches picked up some of the slack). The religions then branched out as their leaders tried to strengthen their power...adding on penalties and hoarding money to build golden palaces. Many have just become a means of controlling people and foster an insider/outsider view of the world.

Buddhism is one of the few 'religions' that hasn't gone that route. It's inclusive and I can't think of any wars started in the name of Buddhism (I'm sure one of you will correct me if I'm mistaken).

Not a good idea to disparage anyone's religion or church. That being said, most religions start out with the intention of providing a set of precepts for helping people to live together peacefully (in time periods when governments/laws were weak, the churches picked up some of the slack). The religions then branched out as their leaders tried to strengthen their power...adding on penalties and hoarding money to build golden palaces. Many have just become a means of controlling people and foster an insider/outsider view of the world.

Buddhism is one of the few 'religions' that hasn't gone that route. It's inclusive and I can't think of any wars started in the name of Buddhism (I'm sure one of you will correct me if I'm mistaken).

The following article makes an interesting read covering some of 'Buddhism and War"

http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddh ... /a/war.htm (http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddhistteachings/a/war.htm)

:hello1:

The following article makes an interesting read covering some of 'Buddhism and War"


The article basically justifies self defense if it is free of hate/malice. There have been times in history when Christian kings have built empires by conquering their neighbors. If there is an instance of Buddhists doing that then it'd be interesting to read about.

Oh, boy. Where to start? How about the ruins of Ayutthaya?

Yes good example, and I have found that the Thai's, especially in the Ayutthaya area still hold a grudge against the Burmese......

:hello1:

Ayutthaya?

One of the major attractions that I didn't get to on my first visit. Cool, I have something to read up on before I go there.

Ayutthaya?

One of the major attractions that I didn't get to on my first visit. Cool, I have something to read up on before I go there.

Nice place to visit, I think you will enjoy it.......

:hello1:

Hi patrick66, everyone,

You might consider visiting Wat Rampoeng In Chiang Mai. They offer 10 day meditation retreats for foreigners that are led by English speaking teachers:

http://www.palikanon.com/vipassana/tapo ... otaram.htm (http://www.palikanon.com/vipassana/tapotaram/tapotaram.htm)

I've been a practicing Buddhist for around 30 years and have studied with many teachers in different traditions of Buddhism. Buddhism has no issue with homosexuality, and there are many ordained Western gay monks and lesbian nuns in various traditions. The issue isn't homo or het...rather, its the degree of attachment we all have to desire that is addressed in Buddhism for both homo and het. Buddhism stresses that being overly attached to our desires clouds our perception of reality as it really is. As gay men we know this as "thinking with our dick"...something that most of us have done, sometimes excessively and to our detriment.

The goal of Buddhism is to help us become less unconsciously reactive - less dragged around and driven by our unconscious reactions to external circumstances and our unconscious habits of mind. Buddhism is more a psychology than a religion. These are the fundamental principles of Buddhism:

- impermanence: everything in the world (including our thoughts) is in a constant state of flux - generation and degeneration. We experience this very intimately as birth, aging, sickness, dying, and death - this is the nature of everything. Keeping this in mind helps put life into a realistic perspective - we're going to have to let go of everything at some point, so no point in getting too attached to our stuff and our inflated notions of "self" identity.

- cause and effect: Our actions and thoughts in this moment determine to a large degree the quality of what we see and experience in future moments. This reminds us that our thoughts and actions have consequences and encourages us to be aware of what those consequences might be. We are the heirs to our own thoughts and actions.

Clarity: Being consciously aware of impermanence and cause/effect in our daily life heightens our awareness how we attach to stuff and ideas in order to block from consciousness how the world really works. We don't like the idea of impermanence and we forget about cause and effect so we cling to stuff and self-identity, often to the point of making ourselves sick or going to war. We make our lives miserable attaching and hanging on for dear life so we don't have to look reality spang in the eye...we are aging, we will get sick, we will experience dying, we will be dead - letting go of everything. Clarity helps us to loosen our grip on our attachments so that they cause us and others less grief.

Meditation: The practice of meditation is the practice of letting go of attachment. We sit quietly and observe the mind, which we see is in a constant state of reaction to circumstances and sensations. This is the pattern that brings us so much discontentment in our lives...always grasping at something or reacting negatively to something - hunger and fear. Meditation helps us see clearly how habitual this is and how exhausting it really is. Through meditation we learn to calm the mind so it isn't in a constant state of fight/flight - to the point of it being able to just rest, aware but calm. This aware but calm place is where real happiness and far reaching clarity can be found - much more beneficial than the shallow, fleeting happiness than constantly feeding our fears and cravings can provide.

Compassion: When we develop this this calm, aware place through awareness and meditation we begin to see how people are constantly driven by their hungers and fears - to the point of hurting themselves and others. Our hungers and fears are destroying the world we live in and making our lives miserable (underneath the lies we tell ourselves that everything will be just fine if only I have ________ or don't have ________). When we realize this, our heart opens to the world...and this is the missing "connection" that we all sense in our modern alienated life that causes us to be so reactive and to go chasing after the "spiritual" out there somewhere.

We can create the conditions of mind/heart for sustained contentment and happiness if we're willing to see the world and our lives clearly in all its innate messiness, and if we actively practice calming the mind. Buddhism is an ancient set of tools for doing this.

I hope this is useful...

Take care,
mister_moose

... we begin to see how people are constantly driven by their hungers and fears - to the point of hurting themselves and others. Our hungers and fears are destroying the world we live in and making our lives miserable (underneath the lies we tell ourselves that everything will be just fine if only I have ________ or don't have ________).As a psychanalysis of Dickhead that's spot on. And he's lived in Buddhist country for how long?

[Beachlover]

Well... whatever move you make, moving away from Roman Catholicism is the right direction...

Not a good idea to disparage anyone's religion or church. That being said, most religions start out with the intention of providing a set of precepts for helping people to live together peacefully (in time periods when governments/laws were weak, the churches picked up some of the slack). The religions then branched out as their leaders tried to strengthen their power...adding on penalties and hoarding money to build golden palaces. Many have just become a means of controlling people and foster an insider/outsider view of the world.

Buddhism is one of the few 'religions' that hasn't gone that route. It's inclusive and I can't think of any wars started in the name of Buddhism (I'm sure one of you will correct me if I'm mistaken).

This article is interesting. It says religion is ok but goes downhill when people take it too literally.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-a ... -i58p.html (http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/god-is-good-but-just-be-sure-not-to-take-him-too-literally-20091109-i58p.html)

Not a good idea to disparage anyone's religion or church.So you support the Hindu practice of suttee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_%28practice%29) do you? What about the religions in some Pacific Islands that endorsed cannibalism? It's only when criticism is brought to bear on people and their religions that they modify their behaviour and/or beliefs. You might catch up with the series currently being shown on the BBC here in the UK (so possibly on BBC America) on the fascinating history of Christianity (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/6495955/Diarmaid-MacCulloch-on-his-new-series-A-History-of-Christianity.html) and how encounters with other religions together with criticism both inside and outside the Church has led to significant changes - both to Christianity and the religions it has run up against such as Islam. The series is being presented by Diarmaid MacCulloch (http://www.lgbtran.org/Profile.aspx?A=M&ID=60), the gay professor of Church History at Ocford University.

Religion! What we need are more guys like him LOL

http://www.omgblog.com/images/2009/corduroy.jpg


:hello1:

Not a good idea to disparage anyone's religion or church.
what about when they fly passenger planes into buildings?

Not a good idea to disparage anyone's religion or church.
what about when they fly passenger planes into buildings?

Or as in Irans case slowly hang gays from cranes in public!

http://direland.typepad.com/.shared/ima ... _teens.jpg (http://direland.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/irangay_teens.jpg)

:hello1:

Or as in Irans case slowly hang gays from cranes in public!

This had nothing (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/global-forum/the-blue-diamond-affair-t18171-60.html?hilit=iran#p185301) to do with their being gay or even Sharia law: Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni) were not hung for being gay, but for the abduction at knife point and subsequent gang rape of a 13 year old boy by five men.




Ayutthaya?
One of the major attractions that I didn't get to on my first visit. Cool, I have something to read up on before I go there

When you do you will find that the sacking of Ayutthaya in 1767 was not done in the name of Buddhism, or in any way connected with religion, any more than the Ayutthaya Kingdom's sacking of Angkor in 1431 was. All these wars (Khmer/Ayutthaya/Burmese/Siamese, etc) were territorial, not religious.

Buddhism is one of the few 'religions' that hasn't gone that route. It's inclusive and I can't think of any wars started in the name of Buddhism (I'm sure one of you will correct me if I'm mistaken).A simple search of Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war) would be a start, or is your usual modus operandi to give us insights to your own startling ignorance in the hope that others will educate you rather than make an effort yourself?

This had nothing (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/global-forum/the-blue-diamond-affair-t18171-60.html?hilit=iran#p185301) to do with their being gay or even Sharia law: Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni) were not hung for being gay, but for the abduction at knife point and subsequent gang rape of a 13 year old boy by five men.

As in most cases such as this where the evidence is questionable, and the sentence passed by a 'religious court' in the name of their God. I neither believe or don't believe the accusation about the young boy. I only raised it as another barbaric 'punishment' carried out by religious fanatics.

http://direland.typepad.com/direland/20 ... tes_2.html (http://direland.typepad.com/direland/2005/07/iran_executes_2.html)

:hello1:

.....the sentence passed by a 'religious court' in the name of their God..... I only raised it as another barbaric 'punishment' carried out by religious fanatics.

The sentence was not passed by a "religious court". It was passed by a Criminal Court (number 19) and then confirmed by the Supreme Court in Tehran. There are "religious courts" in Iran, from which there is no appeal, but this was not the case here and the criminal court system is totally independent. While it may be a "barbaric 'punishment' " it had nothing to do with either the persecution of homosexuals or religious fanaticism (although there are other cases which do), despite Tatchell and Ireland's claims which have been shown to be totally without any basis in fact (and that's not just my opinion, but that of the Human Rights Watch, the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, Amnesty International, The Nation (US), the lesbian and gay Muslim group the Al-Fatiha Foundation, and the Dutch Government).

... I can't think of any wars started in the name of Buddhism (I'm sure one of you will correct me if I'm mistaken).A simple search of Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war) would be a start, or is your usual modus operandi to give us insights to your own startling ignorance in the hope that others will educate you rather than make an effort yourself?

Not much of a start. The article is graded in their second lowest category ("start") and commences with the bold warning "This article or section has multiple issues". The two instances given of Buddhist inspired "wars" are the White Lotus Rebellion in China (which was essentially between the Ming and Qing dynasties and had no religious basis - both sides were Buddhists) and the Tamil Rebellion in Sri Lanka (the civil war was the result of Tamils fighting for independence - the Tamils are largely Catholic and Hindu).

Just to show that you do not suffer from the same "startling ignorance" as MLomker, maybe you could "educate" us by telling us of "any wars started in the name of Buddhism" that you are aware of, along the lines of those wars started in the name of other major religions such as Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism and Sikhism (although it is arguable that Hindus and Sikhs have only ever fought wars based on religion in self-defence).

The sentence was not passed by a "religious court". It was passed by a Criminal Court (number 19) and then confirmed by the Supreme Court in Tehran. There are "religious courts" in Iran, from which there is no appeal, but this was not the case here and the criminal court system is totally independent. While it may be a "barbaric 'punishment' " it had nothing to do with either the persecution of homosexuals or religious fanaticism (although there are other cases which do), despite Tatchell and Ireland's claims which have been shown to be totally without any basis in fact (and that's not just my opinion, but that of the Human Rights Watch, the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, Amnesty International, The Nation (US), the lesbian and gay Muslim group the Al-Fatiha Foundation, and the Dutch Government).

Since the Mulah's took over in Iran I would think that most judgements come from or through them, but that's another discussion.

G.F. do you have links to your information as everything that I have read more or less agrees that the rape of the 13 yr old was trumped up to justify hanging the teenagers............

G.F. do you have links to your information as everything that I have read more or less agrees that the rape of the 13 yr old was trumped up to justify hanging the teenagers............You're questioning Gone Fisting's interpretation of something? You heretic!

Since the Mulah's took over in Iran I would think that most judgements come from or through them, but that's another discussion.

G.F. do you have links to your information as everything that I have read more or less agrees that the rape of the 13 yr old was trumped up to justify hanging the teenagers............

This is a good start (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Asgari_and_Ayaz_Marhoni), with plenty of useful links to both sides (including Tatchell and Ireland) - it is also graded "B" so is adequately researched.

I would agree with you about the ultimate control being in the hands of the mullahs in Iran, but having lived and worked in the Middle East the way this particular incident has been treated annoys me, as I have previously explained:

The execution of Mahmoud Asgari was the first time that the execution of a minor in Iran had received widespread international publicity and the first real opportunity that Human Rights Watch had had to highlight the number of executions of minors in Iran which are a clear violation of both the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, both of which Iran has signed - both Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Mahoni were minors at the time of the offence and Mahmoud Asgari was still a minor when he was executed.

The opportunity was lost, however, as a direct result of repeated insistence by Peter Tatchell (in the UK) and Doug Ireland (in the US) that the executions were a "gay" issue even though more respected and moderate "gay" organisations such as the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission said it clearly was not. Peter Tatchell further blurred the issue by claiming that those questioning his version of events were "Western left-wing ... Islamist apologists of the Iranian regime" and strongly defending the National Council of Resistance of Iran and the People's Mojahedin.

Scott Long, the director of Human Rights Watch's Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Rights Project wrote in Gay City News that this was "deeply irresponsible":

"Reliability matters. тАж.. When pictures of two young men hanged in the Iranian city of Mashad circulate in July 2005, revulsion rode with them around the world. Many felt an intense bond with the blindfolded, helpless victims. The photos brought home the death penalty's horror. Yet if a picture is worth a thousand words, it should not substitute for them. тАж.. complications and slogans sit uneasily together. тАж..

A few Iranian exile groups saw a new audience in Western gays. They began reporting multiple executions in Iran as gay-related... After four men were hanged for unspecified "sexual offenses" in Iran, Ireland found verbal similarity in the reporting enough to "strongly suggest" that they were hanged for homosexuality. The men were hanged for heterosexual rape - two for the rape of girls aged 8 and 10.тАж

If we want to challenge IranтАЩs government, we need facts. There is enough proof of torture and repression that we can do without claims of 'pogroms.'"

I also wrote separately:

I can understand your feelings over the pictures of the hangings, but mabe you could put them into perspective by sparing a thought for the 13 year old boy who was abducted at knife point from an innocent trip to a shopping mall and then gang raped repeatedly by five men (an act observed and reported to the police by a number of witnesses from a public road who were too frightened to intervene but gave evidence at the trial). The full details are readily available.