Red Shirt Demonstrations To Be? Postponed? Cancelled?

Red Shirt Demonstrations To Be? Postponed? Cancelled?

Anyway, I hope you are all safe over there. I'll hopefully be back by New Year's. Happy Holidays (Thanksgiving, King's Birthday/ Xmas).

Thinking of Thailand this morning as always ...


November 25, 2009
This message alerts U.S. citizens traveling to or residing in Thailand
that media reports indicate that supporters of the United Front for
Democracy Against Dictatorship (aka UDD or red-shirts) may gather this
weekend in Bangkok. The Royal Thai Government has invoked the Internal
Security Act (ISA) for Bangkok through mid-December; UDD leaders sent
out signals November 25 that the protests previously announced for
November 28 would likely be postponed in recognition of the upcoming
birthday of His Majesty King Bhumibol.
Media reports also indicate that the red-shirts may demonstrate this
weekend in Chiang Mai in opposition to a visit by PM Abhisit Vejjajiva.
For more information, please see the warden message issued by the U.S.
Consulate in Chiang Mai (click here for text)
<http://chiangmai.usconsulate.gov/programs_and_events/2009/warden-messag
e-11242009/warden-message-11242009.html> .
We wish to remind American citizens that even demonstrations intended to
be peaceful can turn confrontational and possibly escalate into
violence. American citizens are urged to avoid the areas of the
demonstrations and to exercise caution if within the vicinity of any
demonstrations.
For the latest security information, Americans living and traveling
abroad should regularly monitor the Department's Bureau of Consular
Affairs Internet web site at http://travel.state.gov, where the current
Worldwide Caution, Travel Alerts, Travel Warnings, and
health-information resources can be found. Up-to-date information on
security can also be obtained by calling 1-888-407-4747 toll free in the
U.S. and Canada or, for callers in other areas by calling a regular toll
line at 1-202-501-4444. These numbers are available from 8:00 a.m. to
8:00 p.m. Eastern Time, Monday through Friday (except U.S. federal
holidays).
American citizens traveling or residing in Thailand are encouraged to
register with the Department of State or the U.S. Embassy. The Embassy
is located at 95 Wireless Road in Bangkok. The American Citizen
Services Unit of the U.S. Embassy can be reached by calling
66-2-205-4049 and by e-mail at ACSBKK@State.gov. The after hours
emergency telephone number is 66-2-205-4000.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews ... rally-plan (http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/161040/udd-cancels-mass-rally-plan)

Focusing everyone's attention on the frailty of HMTK after months in hospital seems a sensible move.

Focusing everyone's attention on the frailty of HMTK after months in hospital seems a sensible move.

Yes ..... usually when there is so much martial music on the Thai TV channels, with pictures of His Majesty, it accompanies a coup; this time I hope it is only genuine wishes for his well being.

Yes ..... usually when there is so much martial music on the Thai TV channels, with pictures of His Majesty, it accompanies a coup; this time I hope it is only genuine wishes for his well being.How will you be able to tell if the wishes are genuine? No coup? Why mount a coup against a military-installed government?

[fedssocr]

sounds like maybe they realized there was no way they could scrounge up 1 million marchers so they found an excuse the pull the plug.

sounds like maybe they realized there was no way they could scrounge up 1 million marchers so they found an excuse the pull the plug.So you think there was only one reason then?

Re: Red Shirt Demonstrations To Be? Postponed? Cancelled?
Author: Copper Pheel ┬╗ Sat 28 Nov, 2009 5:52 am

fedssocr wrote:
sounds like maybe they realized there was no way they could scrounge up 1 million marchers so they found an excuse the pull the plug.
So you think there was only one reason then?

I have a story about the strength of the red shirt movement. It's completely anecdotal, but showed me the power of the whole movement.

A month ago I had a 20 year old Thai friend from Issan staying with me for a week and he invited his mother and 15 year old brother into town to visit. The mother and my friend spent their days shopping and going to the beach but that younger kid spent literally the whole week watching the red shirt channel in my condo. That was the ONLY thing on while the family was here. I don't speak Thai and though the kid was smart in that villager way, I couldn't believe that someone that age could be so dedicated to such a political cause vs watching MTV or football.

My takeaway was 'OMG, this ain't gonna be easy!'

I have a story about the strength of the red shirt movement. It's completely anecdotal, but showed me the power of the whole movement. .... My takeaway was 'OMG, this ain't gonna be easy!'

Ditto.

Until a very few years ago Thai politics was just about which of the myriad of parties could buy the most votes to form a coalition which would last long enough so that they could get their money back and turn a profit before their coalition collapsed or there was a coup - Thailand has had 59 governments/prime ministers (military and civilian) in 77 years.

Now, despite there still being a myriad of parties and an apparently unchanged number of self-serving and corrupt politicians, all the parties come under either the red (primarily rural and poor) or yellow (primarily urban and better off) umbrellas, to varying degrees. That doesn't mean that Thais have all become political animals overnight, but that doesn't need to happen: even if only one or two per cent become actively involved on either side that is still over a million people under each umbrella, and all both sides are currently missing are effective leaders.

There is only one thing keeping either side from taking to the streets, and it isn't apathy. When that goes ...'OMG, this ain't gonna be easy!'




Why mount a coup against a military-installed government?

Why not? The military have mounted four successful coups against direct military governments - in 1971 Field Marshal / Admiral of the Fleet / Marshal of the Royal Thai Air Force Thanom Kittikachorn (military dictator from 1963 - 1973) even led a coup against his own government!

Politics in any country can be difficult enough to follow but understanding the 'Thai way' is beyound a lot of foreigners no matter how long they have lived here or studied the Thai political system. I think once 'you know who' has passed away there will be a lot of changes and alas I don't think that they will all be for the better. Needless to say it won't, as before really effect tourism or the foreign community living in Thailand. In another light western democrocy didn't happen over night and the Thai's haven't really been at it for that long.

:hello1:

In another light western democrocy didn't happen over night and the Thai's haven't really been at it for that long.

That's what many use as an excuse (including the yellow shirts), but in comparative terms it isn't really true - the difference is that it is only recently that the majority of Thais have realised that their vote could actually make a direct difference to them, and that Thais are restricted in terms of who is allowed to stand for election.

Every Thai of voting age has had the right to vote since 1932. In comparison, in the USA African Americans have only had full voting rights since 1965, and women have not had the right to vote in many "western democracies" for much longer - 1920 in the USA, 1928 in the UK and as recently as 1946 in Italy and 1971 in Switzerland.

[Brad the Impala]

Thailand's early experimentation with Democracy, from the first election in 1933, was largely symbolic and spasmodic. The elections, when they were held, paid lip service to democracy at best, in that the vote was to elect persons(eg village headman) who then elected amongst themselves some of the delegates to the House Of Representatives! Not however a majority, as they were appointed by the great and the good, and much of the time the House was not allowed to sit anyway.

It was dissatisfaction with the progress towards a genuine democracy that spawned the student revolutions of 1973, the activists being, as ever, the educated children of the middle classes. At that time I was living in Silom Road, and I remember the buses that had been commandeered by the students careering down a deserted Rama IV, on their way to "the front", and other buses returning with bloodied occupants. At the time the rumours were of the bodies of the students being taken to the Crocodile Farm, and that Narong Kittikachorn(son of the PM) had been machine gunning students from a helicopter. Certainly atrocities were carried out at that time.

Perhaps someone knows when the directly elected members of The House of Representatives , as opposed to the appointed members,first became a majority, and when the Prime Minister was first elected in a National Vote, rather than appointed, or elected by the Senate or House of Representatives?

and women have not had the right to vote in many "western democracies" for much longer - 1920 in the USA, 1928 in the UK and as recently as 1946 in Italy and 1971 in Switzerland.You're not suggesting surely that giving women the right to vote was a good thing?

The elections, when they were held, paid lip service to democracy at best, in that the vote was to elect persons(eg village headman) who then elected amongst themselves some of the delegates to the House Of Representatives!

This applied only in the first (http://library.fes.de/pdf-files/iez/01361009.pdf) elections, in 1933. After that voting was by direct election, although I agree that for "much of the time" (really for the majority of the 76 years of Thai "democracy") the government has been either directly or indirectly controlled by the military.


Perhaps someone knows when the directly elected members of The House of Representatives , as opposed to the appointed members,first became a majority

1937, the second elections (for as long as the military were not involved).


.... and when the Prime Minister was first elected in a National Vote, rather than appointed, or elected by the Senate or House of Representatives?

Never - Prime Ministers (as distinct from Presidents) are not generally elected by "a National Vote" anywhere - the Prime Minister is appointed by a vote in the lower house (the Thai House of Representatives) by a simple majority of the members of the house - this normally means that he is the leader of either the largest party in the house or the largest coalition of parties.

[Brad the Impala]

Perhaps I phrased the question badly. I was looking for the first Prime Minister, elected in national elections(rather than appointed), who appears to be Chatichai Choonhavan in 1988. I would date a serious rather than superficial approach to democracy from this point. Although he was a General, he was at least the leader of the political party that gathered the most votes. Even so he didn't last long, and was replaced by a military coup in 1991.

[TrongpaiExpat]

So far we have had the Red Shirts postponing and/or canceling the demonstration. The PM canceled his trip to Chiang Mai. The King canceled his birthday speech and postponed some of the planed celebrations. Is Christmas still a go?