Flight of the Gibbon, anyone?

[cdnmatt]

I'm curious, has anyone tried out Flight of the Gibbon? It's a zip-line tourist thing in Pattaya / Bangkok, Chiang Mai, and Ko Samui (I think).

http://www.treetopasia.com/

If anyone has tried yet, would love to hear your experiences. That, and if anyone has done both, Pattaya / Bangkok & Chiang Mai, would it be better to wait it out for CM, instead of making Pattaya the first one?

Perhaps Smiles' boyfriend?

[Bob]

The bf and I are going to do that up here in Chiangmai but I'm not sure when (probably within the next month). I'll give a brief report if I survive it.

It may be worth pointing out that unless you have insurance with the BMA (British Mountaineering Asociation) or a similar group which specilaise in "dangerous sports" any medical cover you have is extremely unlikely to cover you. Much of this equipment is designed with Thai / Asian rather than farang weight in mind!

[cdnmatt]

It may be worth pointing out that unless you have insurance with the BMA (British Mountaineering Asociation) or a similar group which specilaise in "dangerous sports" any medical cover you have is extremely unlikely to cover you. Much of this equipment is designed with Thai / Asian rather than farang weight in mind!

Well, as long as I die, preferably instantly, I don't mind. I just don't want to end up as a cripple. Really though, and although I'm considered a fat bastard amongst Thais, and actually wouldn't mind either losing a quick 10lbs or turning some fat into muscle myself, I'm only 145lbs, so I would imagine those things can support me.

[Brad the Impala]

Much of this equipment is designed with Thai / Asian rather than farang weight in mind!

If that were correct it would be concerning, given that the enterprise is clearly marketed at, and enjoyed by, customers from around the world. They even have a Russian information line!

I intend to check it out next month and will give my report.

I'm guessing they use the same equipment manufacture as the very popular Zip Lines in Hawaii and other parts of the world. It's relatively new but very popular. The two on the island of Maui were hard to find space available as they were booked well in advance.

I would like to hear any reports about the associated overnight tour that sounds like a jungle safari. Could be a refreshing break from the city or a total looser if not well done.

[Beachlover]

[quote="Gone Fishing":3mxumfph] Much of this equipment is designed with Thai / Asian rather than farang weight in mind!

If that were correct it would be concerning, given that the enterprise is clearly marketed at, and enjoyed by, customers from around the world. They even have a Russian information line![/quote:3mxumfph]

GF makes talking out of his arse a daily ritual.

Designed with "Thai/Asian rather than farang weight" in mind? More like... (1) marketed specifically at foreign tourists and (2) designed by a European designer specialising zip line theme parks.

[quote="Gone Fishing":3bcc7emf] Much of this equipment is designed with Thai / Asian rather than farang weight in mind!

If that were correct it would be concerning, given that the enterprise is clearly marketed at, and enjoyed by, customers from around the world. They even have a Russian information line!

GF makes talking out of his arse a daily ritual.

Designed with "Thai/Asian rather than farang weight" in mind? More like... (1) marketed specifically at foreign tourists and (2) designed by a European designer specialising zip line theme parks.[/quote:3bcc7emf]

BL, just for once try removing your head from Brad's rectum for a few seconds to get some air and it just may be possible for you to have an intelligent, original thought - unlikely, but possible.

Just because there are similar set-ups elsewhere in the world does not mean that there is necessarily any similarity in the equipment used or, equally importantly, in the level of supervision and expertise; the suggestion that an organisation with a foreign language "information line" is somehow any more likely to be safer, more reliable or more responsible than one without is simply laughable - try comparing the known accidents on "approved" bungee jumps in Thailand with, for example, New Zealand where the same equipment is used.

Similarly laughable is the idea that "a European designer specialising zip line theme parks", even if it were correct, would make it any safer unless he also had in depth knowledge of the totally different circumstances of operating in the rainforest (humidity, insects, etc) to operating in the west.

I know as little at first hand as anyone else posting here about the way Flight of the Gibbon operates ; what I do know, however, after only looking very briefly at the front page of their web site is that a number of their photos show dangerous practices that should never be allowed to take place under any circumstances:

The background photo and the video show a girl abseilng (rapelling) without gloves - totally incorrect, even if their descent is controlled from the ground, as it is standard practice to wear a glove on the hand on the "dead" rope to avoid possible rope burns.

The top left photo of the photo gallery shows a man on the zip line wearing a sit harness, not a body harness - unforgivably dangerous. To compound that he is wearing a glove on his "control" hand, which he has over the zip line equipment - again, totally inexcusable - gloves should never be worn on a zip line due to the possibility of their jamming in the equipment*.

The bottom right photo shows a girl with her hand over the zip line pulley, with her fingers actually inside the pulley wheel cage - again, totally wrong and extremely dangerous.

I could go on and could list my own knowledge in this area (and Matt or Bob, I would be happy to pass it on to you before you go!), but it is unnecessary - anyone who knows the slightest thing about it (which obviously does not include Brad or BL!) could take one look at the pictures, one look at my comments, and make up their own minds about who is "talking out of his arse".


While you and Brad may find it amusing to insult and abuse me at every opportunity, whether it is justified or not, it is hardly doing others here a service in those threads where there is just a possibility that my post may actually be constructive and worth heeding (rare though that may be).


* Edit: to be strictly accurate I should add that it is common and approved practice for staff to wear reinforced neoprene gloves when carrying out a physical check of the zip line, although they would always do so with either a prussic or a brakeable trolley which does not appear to be the case here (trained zip line staff/operators and climbers should understand).

[TrongpaiExpat]

Abseiling can be dangerous, and presents risks, especially to unsupervised or inexperienced abseilers. According to German mountaineer Pit Schubert, about 25% of climbing deaths occur during rappelling, most commonly due to failing anchors. Another frequent cause of accidents is abseiling beyond the end of the rope.[4]

Whoops, ran out of rope! Sort of like saying the cause of climbing deaths is attributed to gravity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abseiling

where there is just a possibility that my post may actually be constructive and worth heeding (rare though that may be).

lol. The problem GF, is that you didn't post any of these insights in your other post. This one was an interesting read.

[Brad the Impala]

Much of this equipment is designed with Thai / Asian rather than farang weight in mind!


If that were correct it would be concerning, given that the enterprise is clearly marketed at, and enjoyed by, customers from around the world. They even have a Russian information line!


the suggestion that an organisation with a foreign language "information line" is somehow any more likely to be safer, more reliable or more responsible than one without is simply laughable

Who suggested that it was likely to be safer?! Blowing up balloons so that you can burst them youself, as usual!

I guess that you have spent your life doing that.

where there is just a possibility that my post may actually be constructive and worth heeding (rare though that may be).

lol. The problem GF, is that you didn't post any of these insights in your other post. This one was an interesting read.

It struck me that it would have been boring, at best, to have posted these "insights" so I thought that simply pointing out the limitations of medical insurance would have been sufficient, and that to have pointed out the immediately obvious (to me) safety mistakes made by the company could have been unfair.

The "problem" is that just occasionally I do know what I am talking about but some posters such as Brad, BL and Pissyboy simply post childish abuse for the sake of it and what could be constructive and valuable advise is lost - sometimes to others, sometimes to themselves.

Example 1: Pissyboy asked for advice on where to buy Hill Tribe silver (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand/hill-tribe-silver-t16633.html?hilit=jewellery&sid=2222591de220f568dfae27f7310d5759); I asked where (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand/hill-tribe-silver-t16633.html?hilit=jewellery&sid=2222591de220f568dfae27f7310d5759) he was going in Thailand and was abused for my interest. I happened to have extensive knowledge of exactly what he wanted (but no actual interest in it whatsoever!), which no one else apparently did. Result: due to his unthinking abuse, Pissyboy didn't get any of the information he asked for and could have got.

Example 2: a poster(?!) recently asked about likely Songkran (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand/pattaya-during-songkron-traffic-t18663-15.html?hilit=songkran) traffic in 2010. I replied pointing out the limitations of a holiday here over Songkran and that their departure date (17th) was a Saturday, with the considerable extra problems that could create going from Pattaya to Bangkok. The "thank you" for what could be the most relevant information on the thread - "As always, feel free to not respond to my posts"!

BTW, try not to take the "plonker" bit personally - it is no more than a rather pointless pun such as Gone Fishing/Gone Mad, Brad the Impala/Brad the Idiot, Kittyboy/Pissyboy, or (my personal favourite) Ocean One/Ocean None, which you can blame jinks for starting.


.... and Matt, 145 lbs!! Many of Dongtan whales would tip the scales at 145 kgs. I haven't been 145 lbs since I went to school, except when I had amoebiasis, giardia and dysentry all at the same time in Tibet!

[Beachlover]

BL, just for once try removing your head from Brad's rectum for a few seconds to get some air and it just may be possible for you to have an intelligent, original thought - unlikely, but possible.

Not sure if you've noticed, but Brad is far from the only one flying the "GF is a wanker" flag.



Just because there are similar set-ups elsewhere in the world does not mean that there is necessarily any similarity in the equipment used or, equally importantly, in the level of supervision and expertise; the suggestion that an organisation with a foreign language "information line" is somehow any more likely to be safer, more reliable or more responsible than one without is simply laughable - try comparing the known accidents on "approved" bungee jumps in Thailand with, for example, New Zealand where the same equipment is used.

Similarly laughable is the idea that "a European designer specialising zip line theme parks", even if it were correct, would make it any safer unless he also had in depth knowledge of the totally different circumstances of operating in the rainforest (humidity, insects, etc) to operating in the west.

Nobody else has questioned or defended its safety standards except you. Your rambling thoughts are speculation without basis.

So again... why do you say with complete conviction that "Much of this equipment is designed with Thai / Asian rather than farang weight in mind!"...?

-----
You either mis-interpreted the photos or intentionally made up false observations to make yourself appear an expert. I think the business owners would be pretty pissed off to read this shite.


The background photo and the video show a girl abseilng (rapelling) without gloves - totally incorrect, even if their descent is controlled from the ground, as it is standard practice to wear a glove on the hand on the "dead" rope to avoid possible rope burns.

Neither of these two people are abseiling. They are being winched or lowered by belay from above. There is no risk of rope burn and no reason for gloves.


The top left photo of the photo gallery shows a man on the zip line wearing a sit harness, not a body harness - unforgivably dangerous. To compound that he is wearing a glove on his "control" hand, which he has over the zip line equipment - again, totally inexcusable - gloves should never be worn on a zip line due to the possibility of their jamming in the equipment.

Never heard of the no gloves on a zip line rule. Plenty of people wear gloves on zip lines. Especially if they may use their hands to control or facilitate movement along it when gravity/slope/bodyweight isn't sufficient to get them to the end.

Sit harness is fine for this purpose. He should remain upright and his centre of gravity keeps him from going completely upside down. The only time I've worn a fully body or chest harness is abseiling forwards down buildings.


The bottom right photo shows a girl with her hand over the zip line pulley, with her fingers actually inside the pulley wheel cage - again, totally wrong and extremely dangerous.
That's a purpose-designed hand grip on the trolley she's holding onto.


anyone who knows the slightest thing about it (which obviously does not include Brad or BL!) could take one look at the pictures, one look at my comments, and make up their own minds about who is "talking out of his arse".

Yep, you are.

Is there anyone here who disagrees GF is talking out of his arse?

[Beachlover]

Example 1: Pissyboy asked for advice on where to buy Hill Tribe silver (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand/hill-tribe-silver-t16633.html?hilit=jewellery); I asked where (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand/hill-tribe-silver-t16633.html?hilit=jewellery) he was going in Thailand and was abused for my interest. I happened to have extensive knowledge of exactly what he wanted (but no actual interest in it whatsoever!), which no one else apparently did. Result: due to his unthinking abuse, Pissyboy didn't get any of the information he asked for and could have got.

He abused you because you started off by insulting him.

with the considerable extra problems that could create going from Pattaya to Bangkok. The "thank you" for what could be the most relevant information on the thread - "As always, feel free to not respond to my posts"!

The contents of that post:

1) This has already been covered in detail.
2) Sex tourists (presumably aimed at me) shouldn't come this time of year.
3) Pointing out that I had the dates wrong (in a know-it-all manner).

I'm sorry, but I have trouble listening to valid information when every other sentence is condescending or sounds like I'm being preached to from a know-it-all. If you want people to listen to you or (heaven forbid) consider you a friend, then you should take a look at how you come across in print.

For the record, I take jabs at you now and then because it's turned into a bit of a game on here. I think you do have good qualities and I'd buy you (or BB for that matter) a beverage if I ever met you.

[Brad the Impala]

[quote="Gone Fishing":1v0meozs] Much of this equipment is designed with Thai / Asian rather than farang weight in mind!


If that were correct it would be concerning, given that the enterprise is clearly marketed at, and enjoyed by, customers from around the world. They even have a Russian information line!


the suggestion that an organisation with a foreign language "information line" is somehow any more likely to be safer, more reliable or more responsible than one without is simply laughable

Who suggested that it was likely to be safer?! Blowing up balloons so that you can burst them youself, as usual!
[/quote:1v0meozs]

Try answering the actual question rather than posting more rubbish.

You have the habit of posting nonsense, with as much authority as when you are posting common sense, leaving anyone well advised to take all your comments with at best a pinch of salt. When your statement, which is actually an opinion, gets questioned, you react by starting a quotathon of rationalizing self justification, which rapidly descends into name calling and belittling of your critics ability to understand your English and your reasoning. Notice a common theme here? Would you want me to list the number of different posters with whom you have had this problem, some of whom no longer post here.

On your opening post on this thread, not content with suggesting that the equipment at an organisation, of which you had no personal knowledge, was likely to be unsafe and unsuitable for farangs, you wrote:


It may be worth pointing out that unless you have insurance with the BMA (British Mountaineering Asociation) or a similar group which specilaise in "dangerous sports" any medical cover you have is extremely unlikely to cover you

That sounds logical, and sounds like you know what you are talking about, however as I have become dubious about the reliability of your opinions, I checked with my own bog standard travel insurers, providing them with a link to treetopasia, and within two minutes they had confirmed that this activity is covered as standard under under their policy. Given the standard nature of my policy, it seems likely that many other policies will also cover this activity.

If you want people to listen to you or (heaven forbid) consider you a friend, then you should take a look at how you come across in print. For the record, I take jabs at you now and then because it's turned into a bit of a game on here.

I know I should, but I really don't care if "people to listen to me or (heaven forbid) consider me a friend" - I have enough friends to keep me happy in real life, so I don't need to make any more here where you never really know who you are talking to. Although many seem to think I do, I really don't need my ego boosting here! If anyone wants to read my posts they can, and they may learn something, if they don't then that's fine too.

... and, for the record, I'd be quite happy to have a drink with you and I too am playing a "game", most of the time - occasionally, though, I think there are some issues that need to be taken seriously and the game playing should stop.



Nobody else has questioned or defended its safety standards except you. Your rambling thoughts are speculation without basis.

Which is precisely why I did not post any of this detail in my first post - its boring and it invites comment from the uninformed idiot. I can only "speculate" as I only have the photos/videos to go on - along with my own experience and extensive qualified training, which is totally irrelevant here as any one with any experience at supervisor/instructor level would see the problems, and nobody's knowledge can be verified in any case. Maybe "nobody else" has "questioned" things (and I hardly did until Brad set me off!) because they lack the relevant training or qualifications to do so?


So again... why do you say with complete conviction that "Much of this equipment is designed with Thai / Asian rather than farang weight in mind!"...?

Because I know the approved weights for the various harnesses, loops, etc, that are being used (and in some cases used wrongly to help the equipment fit) as well as what should/can be used with what, etc. I can say this with "complete conviction" because I haven't just done this a few times on holiday or for fun: I doubt if you are old enough, but if you have heard of Troll (I know, I know, don't bother with the jokes!) I appear in a number of their advertisements trialling their equipment in the Himalayas, not that that should make any difference and this was part of my job - I am not justifying mysef, but you asked so I am telling you.

I also know the effects of rainforest conditions on this equipment, long term, as it has not changed in the 20 years since I used it extensively under those conditions.


I think the business owners would be pretty pissed off to read this shite.

I am sure they would!



The background photo and the video show a girl abseilng (rapelling) without gloves - totally incorrect, even if their descent is controlled from the ground, as it is standard practice to wear a glove on the hand on the "dead" rope to avoid possible rope burns.

Neither of these two people are abseiling. They are being winched or lowered by belay from above. There is no risk of rope burn and no reason for gloves.

Absolute rubbish. The background photo shows a length of rope below the girl, and the girl in the video (easily recognizable with her helmet on the back of her head and vivid T-shirt) clearly appears abseiling in the video.



The top left photo of the photo gallery shows a man on the zip line wearing a sit harness, not a body harness - unforgivably dangerous. To compound that he is wearing a glove on his "control" hand, which he has over the zip line equipment - again, totally inexcusable - gloves should never be worn on a zip line due to the possibility of their jamming in the equipment.

Never heard of the no gloves on a zip line rule. Plenty of people wear gloves on zip lines. Especially if they may use their hands to control or facilitate movement along it when gravity/slope/bodyweight isn't sufficient to get them to the end.

Just because you have "never heard of" it or "plenty of people" do it doesn't make it correct! "Plenty of people" have accidents when they and their supervisors have no idea what they are doing. If you need to use your hands to "facilitate movement" along a recreational zip line then that zip line is not set up correctly for your weight.


Sit harness is fine for this purpose. He should remain upright and his centre of gravity keeps him from going completely upside down. The only time I've worn a fully body or chest harness is abseiling forwards down buildings.

What people "should" do and what they sometimes actually do when their adrenalin is flowing are often two entirely different things, and there is simply no excuse for not using a body harness on recreational zip lines.Sit harnesses are designed for climbing and abseiling, not for recreational zip lines under any circumstances. If you take your hands off the suspension line and play around (as some do in the video) or staff are checking the cable and need both hands (as this photo probably shows) there is a small but very real danger that your CGI will shift and you may not "remain upright" and could simply slide out of the harness. Although there will always be an element of risk, the whole point of safety is to eliminate unnecessary risks while making the participants feel that they are taking a risk. "Abseiling forwards down buildings" is, like zip lines, purely recreational and the same safety regulations apply - even the military use a full harness for helicopter abseiling although sit harnesses could be used with the same level of safety as on a recreational zip line.



The bottom right photo shows a girl with her hand over the zip line pulley, with her fingers actually inside the pulley wheel cage - again, totally wrong and extremely dangerous.

That's a purpose-designed hand grip on the trolley she's holding onto.

Yes it is - but her fingers and thumb are in the wrong place, and the video shows the supervisors repeatedly ignoring this with her and with others and teling them they are fine.

I could care less "who disagrees GF is talking out of his arse" if it saves someone's life or pays their medical bills - although hopefully neither will happen. I am making an informed observation and those reading it can do their homework and make up their own minds. Some of the subjects posted about here can have serious consequences and are not just "games" of one-upmanship.


... as for Pissyboy's Hill tribe silver, I don't think my post (in full: Pissyboy, tell us where you are going (Pattaya, Chiang Mai, Bangkok, etc) and it may be possible to give you more specifics. There is, for example, a Long-necked Karen "village" about 20 minutes outside Pattaya where the sort of ghastly trinkets you want are available! Also, for example, if you only want the beads, some lapis-lazuli, etc rather than the silver, etc.) was sufficiently "insulting" to justify the abuse (edited highlights: "who the fuck cares what some guy thinks .... I don't fucking think so ..... GF should stand for go fuck yourself") that I received! Even if it was insulting, so what?? I had what he wanted (detailed information) and no-one else did - only an idiot insults someone before they get what they want from them!



Would you want me to list the number of different posters with whom you have had this problem, some of whom no longer post here.

I would have no objection at all, particularly if (and, as usual, I may be misunderstanding your post) you are implying that I was in any way responsible for anyone's departure and you can back this up. There is little need to "list" those named in this post!

... and Brad, what "seems likely" to you may not be correct and may be dangerous. Many policies have specific exclusion clauses which you may not know about until too late, and forewarned is forearmed - BUPA, which is a "standard" insurer clearly state (Health Care Handbook, page 9, Para 13!): "... dangerous sports or activities including hunting for animals, racing of all kinds including car, boat and horse racing, water and snow-skiing, skating and skateboarding, boxing, parachuting, boarding or travelling in a hot air balloon, gliding, bungy jumping, mountain climbing with equipment, diving with oxygen tank and breathing equipment under water" are all excluded from their policies. Not that I have "become dubious about the reliability of your opinions" (much!), but maybe you would tell us who your "standard policy" is with so that we could all take advantage of their blanket cover.

[Smiles]

For anything even close to mimicking the above tour de ohmygod post :laughing3: (furtively remembering the Flight of The Gibbon) and it's leaden drudgery (literarily-wise that is - SP?) I suggest a perusal ~ and good luck baby! ~ of the (latest version) of the Hamas Charter at http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm
Hedda would approve wholeheartedly. Try your best to keep your (assumed) Cosmic Giggle intact.

I know I should, but I really don't care if "people to listen to me or (heaven forbid) consider me a friend"

You asked why people don't listen to you when you have informed advice to give and I answered it. If you didn't care then you wouldn't have asked. You're such a softie...

[Brad the Impala]

I doubt if you are old enough, but if you have heard of Troll (I know, I know, don't bother with the jokes!) I appear in a number of their advertisements trialling their equipment in the Himalayas, not that that should make any difference and this was part of my job - I am not justifying mysef, but you asked so I am telling you.


So you were a male model! You're right, that doesn't make any difference! Are you the one modelling the fleece?

Troll Gallery (http://www.trolluk.com/gallery.php)



To help you out with your Insurance problems(and here I was thinking that you were advising us), my domestic policy is with a little company called AXA, which covers me at home, and my annual travel insurance cover is with Trailfinders, which covers me abroad. In both circumstances there is no exclusion relating to zip lining or even bungee jumping(max two jumps).

I think that you were being a little economical with the truth, in reporting the exclusion in your own policy, and that the exclusion that you refer to, relates to the limited cover available in your own domestic policy, for overseas repatriation. Residents wouldn't want to be repatriated as they live in Thailand, and visitors take out travel insurance policies. Either that or it's a crap policy.

[Beachlover]

So again... why do you say with complete conviction that "Much of this equipment is designed with Thai / Asian rather than farang weight in mind!"...?

Because I know the approved weights for the various harnesses, loops, etc, that are being used (and in some cases used wrongly to help the equipment fit) as well as what should/can be used with what, etc. I can say this with "complete conviction" because I haven't just done this a few times on holiday or for fun: I doubt if you are old enough, but if you have heard of Troll (I know, I know, don't bother with the jokes!) I appear in a number of their advertisements trialling their equipment in the Himalayas, not that that should make any difference and this was part of my job - I am not justifying mysef, but you asked so I am telling you.

I also know the effects of rainforest conditions on this equipment, long term, as it has not changed in the 20 years since I used it extensively under those conditions.

You're rambling without a definitive answer again.

Does any of this stuff that "you know" prove that this business designed its equipment with "Thai/Asian rather than farang weight in mind"? Because that's a serious accusation you made ... with no solid basis whatsoever.

And you do it just to make yourself appear important and superior in knowledge. How pathetic.



[quote="Gone Fishing":lkxbdg4p]The background photo and the video show a girl abseilng (rapelling) without gloves - totally incorrect, even if their descent is controlled from the ground, as it is standard practice to wear a glove on the hand on the "dead" rope to avoid possible rope burns.

Neither of these two people are abseiling. They are being winched or lowered by belay from above. There is no risk of rope burn and no reason for gloves.

Absolute rubbish. The background photo shows a length of rope below the girl, and the girl in the video (easily recognizable with her helmet on the back of her head and vivid T-shirt) clearly appears abseiling in the video.[/quote:lkxbdg4p]

See... there you go spouting bullshit again.

Anyone can tell by looking at these photos.

Background photo: There is no length of rope below the girl. There is one thick vine (it curves about... so you can tell it's a vine) and one thin vine pointing at an angle in the distance behind her. No rope.

Video: This one is especially clear she is not abseiling. At 2:21 in the video you can see her being lowered. The rope is attached with only a carabina. There is no rope below her. And she actually moves downwards while both hands are above her head so there's no way she could be facilitating her own movement. Even a layperson can see this.

I think you take pathetic to new heights.

[cdnmatt]

heh...

OP Post: "Has anyone checked out Flight of the Gibbon yet?"

85% of Replies: "You're such a dumb shit. No brains whatsoever. Are you blind, deaf, dumb, stupid, or a combination of all four? Can't you see the picture?!?!?"

heh... welcome to SGT. :-)

We take questions of safety very seriously at Flight of the Gibbon. We don't want anyone hurt! I do feel our tours are very safe though, and we constantly work to maintain and improve that. I have personally never felt unsafe on our tour, and I have been an avid rock climber and mountaineer for 18 years. I have also done some of the safety training for our guides. Our zip line engineer and safety expert has been doing this for longer than I have climbed, in the tourism industry throughout Asia. He is pretty on top of this stuff.

With that said, we are open to suggestions. I am forwarding this thread on to him to see if there he feels like anything needs to be addressed.

One thing I can speak to is that the woman on the thumbnail of the video is being lowered, not abseiling. Nobody on our tour actually abseils, they are lowered by the guide. The other rope hanging down is the extra length she will need to reach the ground (which is definitely long enough!).

Another thing is that our harness are industrial-strengh harness that we inspect regularly. The maximum weight we allow on the ziplines is 130 kg (280 lbs), but the harnesses will hold much more.

You can see more closeups of our safety gear on our Bangkok Tour (http://www.treetopasia.com/thailand-holiday/bangkok) photo gallery.

thanks

[giggsy]

Another thing is that our harness are industrial-strengh harness that we inspect regularly. The maximum weight we allow on the ziplines is 130 kg (280 lbs), but the harnesses will hold much more.

That rules out most of this board members then.

[Beachlover]

One thing I can speak to is that the woman on the thumbnail of the video is being lowered, not abseiling. Nobody on our tour actually abseils, they are lowered by the guide. The other rope hanging down is the extra length she will need to reach the ground (which is definitely long enough!).

Hear that, Gone Fruity?

So, which is it?

(a) You're a brainless moron who says he's an expert but can't tell the difference between someone abseiling and someone being lowered.

(b) You made a mistake but you're much too desperate with a need to feel self-important to say so.

OR

(c) Both of the above and you would like to save face by not responding.

[Beachlover]

We take questions of safety very seriously at Flight of the Gibbon...

Why thank you for responding.

Don't worry... the only one who has questioned your safety is a brainless moron.

[Beachlover]

heh...

OP Post: "Has anyone checked out Flight of the Gibbon yet?"

85% of Replies: "You're such a dumb shit. No brains whatsoever. Are you blind, deaf, dumb, stupid, or a combination of all four? Can't you see the picture?!?!?"

heh... welcome to SGT. :-)

It's your fault. :-)

What! You calling me dumb and stupid? I challenge you to a dual!

heh...

OP Post: "Has anyone checked out Flight of the Gibbon yet?"

85% of Replies: "You're such a dumb shit. No brains whatsoever. Are you blind, deaf, dumb, stupid, or a combination of all four? Can't you see the picture?!?!?"

heh... welcome to SGT. :-)

It's your fault. :-)

What! You calling me dumb and stupid? I challenge you to a dual!

DUEL.

You lose.

That rules out most of this board members then.

I feel an urge to quote BB. Naw.



DUEL.

You lose.

Ouch. That one was like watching a train wreck.

[bao-bao]

Ouch. That one was like watching a train wreck.
No kidding... another superb derailing of a perfectly good thread.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z56/khunbaobao/W-Train_wreck_1895.jpg

Hear that, Gone Fruity?

What are you talking about BL, you cretin? I registered as Flight of the Gibbon, so it must be true!!!

(or maybe not ....)

What are you talking about BL, you cretin? I registered as Flight of the Gibbon, so it must be true!!!

(or maybe not ....)

I agree completely (but then I would, wouldn't I?!!)


I think that you were being a little economical with the truth, in reporting the exclusion in your own policy, and that the exclusion that you refer to, relates to the limited cover available in your own domestic policy, for overseas repatriation.

Your post is "a little economical with the truth" to the point of total idiocy (as usual). Trailfinders are anything but a "bog standard travel insurers" - they specialize in insurance for "adventurous activities" (http://insurance.trailfinders.com/insuranceweb.nsf/adventureActivities?ReadForm) which is one of their major advertising and selling points, confirming exactly what I originally said ("It may be worth pointing out that unless you have insurance with the BMA (British Mountaineering Asociation) or a similar group which specialize in "dangerous sports" any medical cover you have is extremely unlikely to cover you")!!

As usual, Brad, you "think" incorrectly - if at all. Mine is a domestic policy, but it has nothing to do with "overseas repatriation" (which my policy happens to cover up to $1,000,000!). It is a "general exclusion".



Anyone can tell by looking at these photos.

Background photo: There is no length of rope below the girl. There is one thick vine (it curves about... so you can tell it's a vine) and one thin vine pointing at an angle in the distance behind her. No rope.

Video: This one is especially clear she is not abseiling. At 2:21 in the video you can see her being lowered. The rope is attached with only a carabina. There is no rope below her. And she actually moves downwards while both hands are above her head so there's no way she could be facilitating her own movement. Even a layperson can see this.

I think you take pathetic to new heights.

OR!


One thing I can speak to is that the woman on the thumbnail of the video is being lowered, not abseiling. Nobody on our tour actually abseils, they are lowered by the guide. The other rope hanging down is the extra length she will need to reach the ground (which is definitely long enough!).

Hear that, Gone Fruity?

So, which is it?

You tell me which, BL - "no rope" and "There is no rope below her" or "The other rope hanging down is the extra length she will need to reach the ground (which is definitely long enough!)"!!!

I think you take stupid to new heights - well, OK, the same height as Brad!

... and before you or the gibbon post again before engaging your brain cell:

If someone is "being lowered" and there is an "other rope hanging down (which) is the extra length she will need to reach the ground (which is definitely long enough!)" then they are being lowered down that rope with the descent controlled by the guy at the bottom - this is called a controlled abseil

There is no such thing as an "industrial-strengh harness" - the phrase is totally meaningless. Harnesses are rated to a specific capacity/breaking strain, largely depending on the webbing used. Anyone with any experience as "an avid rock climber and mountaineer" would know this.

What are you talking about BL, you cretin? I registered as Flight of the Gibbon, so it must be true!!!

(or maybe not ....)

I agree completely (but then I would, wouldn't I?!!)


I think that you were being a little economical with the truth, in reporting the exclusion in your own policy, and that the exclusion that you refer to, relates to the limited cover available in your own domestic policy, for overseas repatriation.

Your post is "a little economical with the truth" to the point of total idiocy (as usual). Trailfinders are anything but a "bog standard travel insurers" - they specialize in insurance for "adventurous activities" (http://insurance.trailfinders.com/insuranceweb.nsf/adventureActivities?ReadForm) which is one of their major advertising and selling points, confirming exactly what I originally said ("It may be worth pointing out that unless you have insurance with the BMA (British Mountaineering Asociation) or a similar group which specialize in "dangerous sports" any medical cover you have is extremely unlikely to cover you")!!

As usual, Brad, you "think" incorrectly - if at all. Mine is a domestic policy, but it has nothing to do with "overseas repatriation" (which my policy happens to cover up to $1,000,000!). It is a "general exclusion".



Anyone can tell by looking at these photos.

Background photo: There is no length of rope below the girl. There is one thick vine (it curves about... so you can tell it's a vine) and one thin vine pointing at an angle in the distance behind her. No rope.

Video: This one is especially clear she is not abseiling. At 2:21 in the video you can see her being lowered. The rope is attached with only a carabina. There is no rope below her. And she actually moves downwards while both hands are above her head so there's no way she could be facilitating her own movement. Even a layperson can see this.

I think you take pathetic to new heights.

OR!

[quote=gibbonsreachingout] One thing I can speak to is that the woman on the thumbnail of the video is being lowered, not abseiling. Nobody on our tour actually abseils, they are lowered by the guide. The other rope hanging down is the extra length she will need to reach the ground (which is definitely long enough!).

Hear that, Gone Fruity?

So, which is it?

You tell me which, BL - "no rope" and "There is no rope below her" or "The other rope hanging down is the extra length she will need to reach the ground (which is definitely long enough!)"!!!

I think you take stupid to new heights - well, OK, the same height as Brad!

... and before you or the gibbon post again before engaging your brain cell:

If someone is "being lowered" and there is an "other rope hanging down (which) is the extra length she will need to reach the ground (which is definitely long enough!)" then they are being lowered down that rope with the descent controlled by the guy at the bottom - this is called a controlled abseil

There is no such thing as an "industrial-strengh harness" - the phrase is totally meaningless. Harnesses are rated to a specific capacity/breaking strain, largely depending on the webbing used. Anyone with any experience as "an avid rock climber and mountaineer" would know this.[/quote:10h23jzt]

GF
I think that everyone has had enough of the extra bit of rope etc......Maybe you could show the punters how it can be converted into a nice noose . Enough ovey. It is now boring.

GF
I think that everyone has had enough of the extra bit of rope etc......Maybe you could show the punters how it can be converted into a nice noose . Enough ovey. It is now boring.

I know, my boy - but I am not allowed to take these petty diversions anywhere else anymore!

... and you don't need to repeat all of the post - think of the space you're wasting, ovey.

[Beachlover]

You tell me which, BL - "no rope" and "There is no rope below her" or "The other rope hanging down is the extra length she will need to reach the ground (which is definitely long enough!)"!!!

I think you take stupid to new heights - well, OK, the same height as Brad!

... and before you or the gibbon post again before engaging your brain cell:

If someone is "being lowered" and there is an "other rope hanging down (which) is the extra length she will need to reach the ground (which is definitely long enough!)" then they are being lowered down that rope with the descent controlled by the guy at the bottom - this is called a controlled abseil


"Controlled abseil"?... You really are spouting more BS. It's called "being lowered". She is not controlling her own descent at all. Someone else is.

So going back to your original point... why does she need gloves and why is there a risk of rope burn? There is no rope running through her and she has no ability to control her descent by grabbing the rope.

I've been lowered off climbing/cliff faces without wearing gloves plenty of times. In fact... go to any climbing gym... look at people being lowered off the walls after each climb and you'll see almost nobody wears gloves.

So again... you're no expert. You're a moron trying to look important. Give it up.

P.S. I posted an enquiry on their booking form. This is how they found out about the lowlife questioning their business' safety standards with no basis whatsoever. Unsubstantiated slander.

[Brad the Impala]

[quote="Brad the complete Idiot":28gq9909]I think that you were being a little economical with the truth, in reporting the exclusion in your own policy, and that the exclusion that you refer to, relates to the limited cover available in your own domestic policy, for overseas repatriation.

Your post is "a little economical with the truth" to the point of total idiocy (as usual). Trailfinders are anything but a "bog standard travel insurers" - they specialize in insurance for "adventurous activities" (http://insurance.trailfinders.com/insuranceweb.nsf/adventureActivities?ReadForm) which is one of their major advertising and selling points, confirming exactly what I originally said ("It may be worth pointing out that unless you have insurance with the BMA (British Mountaineering Asociation) or a similar group which specialize in "dangerous sports" any medical cover you have is extremely unlikely to cover you")!![/quote:28gq9909]

Trailfinders are a normal and rather good travel agents, and this is their standard travel Insurance policy. "Adventurous activities" are included, as they would be on many policies, but they hardly equate to the "dangerous sports" that can only be covered by the BMA(British Mountaineering Association), the kind of policy that you told us would be required to cover this activity.

On the other hand as a specialist climber and male model, you might be interested to know that as far as Joe Public like me is concerned, the British Mountaineering Association does not appear to exist at all, so it would be difficult to buy a policy from them!


As usual, Brad, you "think" incorrectly - if at all. Mine is a domestic policy, but it has nothing to do with "overseas repatriation" (which my policy happens to cover up to $1,000,000!). It is a "general exclusion".

Then as I have explained, as my standard domestic policy from PPP has no such exclusion, you clearly either have a crap policy or are lying. In neither case would one be looking to take advice about Insurance from you.

The more that you post the clearer it becomes that you are living and writing a complete fantasy, and the more that you are worthy of pity rather than censure. However as this is a forum that has a number of posters that contribute worthwhile information, it is incumbent on it's members to try to make sure that that information is correct, and not the delusional ravings of some Walter Mitty figure.

This thread has now singled out TFotG for critiscism very unfairly - something I tried to avoid. I am sure that they are no worse than any similar organisation here, and in all probability better than most.

As for Brad and BL, anyone interested can make up their own minds by checking with any qualified experts (insurance or climbing/zip lines) they know - any claims here are totally unverifiable, as Flight of the Gibbon (check the profile!) shows.

Brad's view of Trailfinders conflicts with the company's own view / pubilcity material, but that is only to be expected. The BMA is an association of British climbing clubs and affiliates, governed like others by the British Mountaineering Council (BMC (http://www.thebmc.co.uk)) whose http://www.77finance.co.uk/British_Moun ... 14265.html (
insurance policiescover all aspects of dangerous sports/adventurous activities, at varying levels.

BL is simply a prime example of a little knowledge being dangerous in the wrong hands. A "controlled abseil" is one way of "being lowered". Her descent is controlled from the ground (not from above) by a person on the ground pulling on the rope for her to control her descent, which is why the rope under her has to be long enough to reach the ground (pulling the rope slows the descent, releasing it speeds it up). The rope goes "through her" from the belay point above to the ground below and she could control her own descent either in the normal way by pulling on the dead end of the rope (as the person on the ground is doing) or, the reason why those with no experience should wear gloves, by grabbing the rope in front of her - the natural reaction of someone in panic, which does occasionally happen and can result in rope burn.

Nobody climbing in a gym or indoor training wall wears gloves - there would be no need and no point. Similarly, climbers being lowered off a face do not wear gloves - firstly because they are generally lowered on a safety rope, not in a controlled abseil unless they were abseiling and have been injured, and secondly because they are seldom totally inexperienced novices with no experience and no known ability. These are totally different situations to those with no experience usng recreational zip lines.

Walter Mitty? Check with any qualified mountain leader, climbing instructor or top rope and abseil instructor - not someone who claims to have, or even has, years of experience.

You are a pair of extremely dangerous idiots, writing about subjects you know very little about for your own agendas - contributing "worthwhile information" is subordinate to playing your petty games. Grow up.

[Beachlover]

Final response for me on this thread:

GF, you're clearly wrong and rambling off with convoluted and eventually false explanations to avoid appearing so.



Her descent is controlled from the ground (not from above) by a person on the ground pulling on the rope for her to control her descent, which is why the rope under her has to be long enough to reach the ground (pulling the rope slows the descent, releasing it speeds it up).

No it's not. There is no rope directly beneath either of the two females. Both of them have the rope attached with a fixed point... not an abseiling/rappelling pulley device. They are tied to the rope and lowered like a crane lowers a crate.

The way she is being lowered is the same, if not similar setup to that in a climbing gym.

- There is no rope directly beneath her because it is attached to her with a fixed attachment (not an abseiling/rappelling device like a figure of 8).

- Pulling or grabbing on the rope in front of her does nothing... she's tied to it (it does not run through her).

- She could pull on the dead end of the rope if she could reach it... but the setup isn't designed to facilitate this (she is supposed to be passive being lowered).

I think you're smart enough to understand the difference between abseiling and being passively lowered... You just want to appear correct as usual.

You still haven't justified your original BS statement (the one, which started all this) that, "much of this equipment is designed with Thai/Asian rather than farang weight in mind".

So there we have it... the laughing stock of SGT.

[Beachlover]

Hear that, Gone Fruity?

What are you talking about BL, you cretin? I registered as Flight of the Gibbon, so it must be true!!!

(or maybe not ....)

I should add... just noticed that this guy's username "flight of the gibbon" is different from the original post from the business, "gibbonsreachingout"... strange.

[Surfcrest]

Final response for me on this thread:


...and then you post another one right after?

I'm starting to miss your usual useless "LOL....that was funny...you crack me up" posts.

I'm with G.F. on this one, there are risks to be considered to any adventure activity....unless you live day to day.

I'm with G.F. on this one, there are risks to be considered to any adventure activity....unless you live day to day.

Every time I cross the street in Thailand it seems like an 'adventure activity'. I might feel safer on a rope. :thumbleft:

...and this is the "final response for me on this thread" too!


I should add... just noticed that this guy's username "flight of the gibbon" is different from the original post from the business, "gibbonsreachingout"... strange.

I honestly never thought anyone would take that seriously, particularly after I wrote "Flight of the Gibbon (check the profile!)" - but I obviously never allowed for BL forgetting his safety helmet and landing on his head so many times. Sorry, SC, but I really was LOL when I read that!!

... and come on, Surfcrest, consistency is hardly BL's forte. After all, he did go from "one thin vine ... No rope. .... There is no rope below her" to supporting a totally contradictory post (which may or may not be "from the business") "The other rope hanging down is the extra length she will need to reach the ground (which is definitely long enough!)" then go back to "There is no rope directly beneath either of the two females" in consecutive posts!



Every time I cross the street in Thailand it seems like an 'adventure activity'. I might feel safer on a rope.

In all fairness, you very probably would be!

[Brad the Impala]

This thread has now singled out TFotG for critiscism very unfairly - something I tried to avoid. I am sure that they are no worse than any similar organisation here, and in all probability better than most.

You tried to avoid unfair criticism by suggesting that their equipment was unlikely to be suitable for farangs! Better late than never to start acknowledging that they are probably safer than most!



The BMA is an association of British climbing clubs and affiliates, governed like others by the British Mountaineering Council


As this is the third time that you have referenced this British Mountaineering Association, and I have already pointed out that I found no trace of it, please provide the link.

[thrillbill]

Five months ago, my friends and I did the Flight of the Gibbon in Changmai and it was loads of fun. I found the staff highly trained and on task. I don't like heights but after I did it once, I wanted to do it again. At the time, I didn' t worry about my weight since many farangs are the customers (I weigh 157 pounds). To me, it was perfectly safe. I have no idea about the one in Pattaya.

Question: Why would so many members on the forum be "experts" on Flight of the Gibbon" when they haven't even tried it out????????

If people really do have questions or concerns with safety of Flight of the Gibbon, I am happy to try to answer them.

1. The girl is being lowered from above by the guide. That is how we do it on every platform that requires lowering. No rope is running through her hand. The extra length of rope in the picture comes up to the guide, through the lowering device, and back down to her.
2. The harnesses are plenty strong enough. Maybe I did use the term "industrial strength" a little loosely, sorry. I have done some industrial climbing and the harnesses we use are very similar to the industrial harnesses commonly used for this. They are MUCH stronger and wear resistant than the harnesses I commonly use for rock climbing and mountaineering.
3. I really do work for Flight of the Gibbon. You are welcome to contact me with any other questions directly. My address is:
gibbonsreachingout [at] treetopasia.com

(see, it is at the same domain as http://www.treetopasia.com)

Thanks,
-Jeff

btw, I love the picture of the train wreck

[Bob]

Question: Why would so many members on the forum be "experts" on Flight of the Gibbon" when they haven't even tried it out????????

The answer, of course, is they aren't. But lack of knowledge about something has never stopped some posters from claiming expertise in everything (unfortunately, when it turns out the given poster knows diddley shit about a particular topic, that tends to draw into question whether he knows diddley shit about anything).

[Surfcrest]

The answer, of course, is they aren't. But lack of knowledge about something has never stopped some posters from claiming expertise in everything (unfortunately, when it turns out the given poster knows diddley shit about a particular topic, that tends to draw into question whether he knows diddley shit about anything).
Bob, I'm certainly not an expert on the Zip Line or this specific one. I have a cabin up in Whistler BC, we tried the Zip Line back in 2007. There was a few accidents that summer, one woman fell and another lost a clump of hair. They had us sign a release first.
As with air travel, I'm sure they have worked out the initial safety flaws. As for crossing the street in Thailand....no.
What's up with the pedestrian lights at Pattayaland 2 Road and South Pattaya Road?

[Beachlover]

Well I'm back in the thread again... albeit on a limited basis.

I won't respond further to any of GF's long, convoluted posts where he puts others down (board members, as well as legitimate businesses)... clearly realises he is wrong but prefers to ramble on irrelevant facts and avoid direct answers.

(Sorry to disappoint you Brad, Kittyboy etc., but he's a moron, he knows he's a moron and almost everyone on this board now knows he's a moron... so aside from a few efficient snipes, there's little more entertainment to be had from spending more valuable [yes, valuable... I'm a business operator, not a bitter old retired man] time pointing it out).


lack of knowledge about something has never stopped some posters from claiming expertise in everything (unfortunately, when it turns out the given poster knows diddley shit about a particular topic, that tends to draw into question whether he knows diddley shit about anything).

That's right... GF likes to appear like an expert. He makes untrue comments on things, most people wouldn't know about, so he can appear knowledgeable ... until someone who actually has a clue catches him out. Then he throws a tantrum.

[Beachlover]

1. The girl is being lowered from above by the guide. That is how we do it on every platform that requires lowering. No rope is running through her hand. The extra length of rope in the picture comes up to the guide, through the lowering device, and back down to her.


Not abseiling and no rope running through her hand. Take note... for the millionth time, GF. If you are not still in denial about being wrong.



You are welcome to contact me with any other questions directly. My address is:
gibbonsreachingout [at] treetopasia.com
k

Perhaps, GF... you could carry out your paranoid, baseless and unsubstantiated criticism of their safety standards in private with them. Or maybe go public in the press with it. You could look like that "important expert" you fantasise about being in front of the whole country... until you start putting some money in their lawyers' pockets.

When LMTU kicks the bucket, I vote for GF to take his place as the most idiotic poster here. Always an expert, often wrong, and never admits it.

[Surfcrest]

Final response for me on this thread:





Well I'm back in the thread again... albeit on a limited basis.

I won't respond further to any of GF's long, convoluted posts where he puts others down (board members, as well as legitimate businesses)... clearly realises he is wrong but prefers to ramble on irrelevant facts and avoid direct answers.


Anyone looking to place a bet against any of these statements?

[Smiles]

" ... that tends to draw into question whether he knows diddley shit about anything) ... "
Thanks for the existentialism Bob. Just adds credence to the two great postulates of Life in General: (1) That "life is nothing but suffering" [fools gladly] (Buddha) and (2) that "nobody knows nuttin'" (Smiles).

[Beachlover]

When LMTU kicks the bucket, I vote for GF to take his place as the most idiotic poster here. Always an expert, often wrong, and never admits it.

No need to wait for the predecessor to go... I reckon we have a good chance getting GF in with an election now.

[Brad the Impala]

[quote="Gone Fishing":i6wjllvp]This thread has now singled out TFotG for critiscism very unfairly - something I tried to avoid. I am sure that they are no worse than any similar organisation here, and in all probability better than most.

You tried to avoid unfair criticism by suggesting that their equipment was unlikely to be suitable for farangs! Better late than never to start acknowledging that they are probably safer than most!



The BMA is an association of British climbing clubs and affiliates, governed like others by the British Mountaineering Council


As this is the third time that you have referenced this British Mountaineering Association, and I have already pointed out that I found no trace of it, please provide the link.[/quote:i6wjllvp]

Did you manage to find the British Mountaineering Association link yet?

Did you manage to find the British Mountaineering Association link yet?

It would appear that they don't have their own website but that doesn't disprove its existence. A Google search brings up 5 pages of references, including a mention in the Guardian (hardly a fly-by-night paper).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/apr/1 ... eobserver1 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/apr/11/martinbright.theobserver1)

[Brad the Impala]

Did you manage to find the British Mountaineering Association link yet?

It would appear that they don't have their own website but that doesn't disprove its existence. A Google search brings up 5 pages of references, including a mention in the Guardian (hardly a fly-by-night paper).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/apr/1 ... eobserver1 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/1999/apr/11/martinbright.theobserver1)

That's an interesting article from 10 years ago. However it is written by the Education Correspondent, and it's topic is the lurid life of the UK Chief Inspector of Schools. It mentions in passing that his wife is standing for the Vice Presidency of the British Mountaineering Association. He was wrong, she wasn't, she was standing for, and was elected to, the British Mountaineering Council, which GF has stated above is a different association. The sort of mistake that a journalist specialising in a completely different area might make, but not a mistake that an expert in the particular field of mountaineering would make.

So still no nearer finding a website or any details of this mysterious organisation.


"The BMA is an association of British climbing clubs and affiliates, governed like others by the British Mountaineering Council".

The BMA (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/any-other-country/the-bma-most-boring-topic-far-t18725.html)

[Brad the Impala]

The BMA (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/any-other-country/the-bma-most-boring-topic-far-t18725.html)

I take it that by only being able to provide a link to your own ramblings on this forum, that is the nearest that you can come to acknowledging that the British Mountaineering Association that you have referred to, and suggested that people buy insurance from, doesn't actually exist! Indeed you haven't been able to provide any reference to it ever existing!



"The BMA is an association of British climbing clubs and affiliates, governed like others by the British Mountaineering Council".

Your "information" is consistently unreliable.

[kittyboy]

... as for Pissyboy's Hill tribe silver, I don't think my post (in full: Pissyboy, tell us where you are going (Pattaya, Chiang Mai, Bangkok, etc) and it may be possible to give you more specifics. There is, for example, a Long-necked Karen "village" about 20 minutes outside Pattaya where the sort of ghastly trinkets you want are available! Also, for example, if you only want the beads, some lapis-lazuli, etc rather than the silver, etc.) was sufficiently "insulting" to justify the abuse (edited highlights: "who the fuck cares what some guy thinks .... I don't fucking think so ..... GF should stand for go fuck yourself") that I received! Even if it was insulting, so what?? I had what he wanted (detailed information) and no-one else did - only an idiot insults someone before they get what they want from them!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GF -

Go back and read my posts on Hill Tribe Silver.
Your first post on the topic was insulting to me, my sister and friend. I answered in kind.
If you treat me with disrespect I respond.
Simple enough.
Inaccurately and selectively recalling your posts is amusing.
Care to debate statistics again?