WAR DECLARED

[giggsy]

your monday morning teaser

Does anyone know the last country Britain formerly declared war on?

[Art]

Thailand

[giggsy]

amazing short answer from Art.
And amazingly correct.It was Thailand in 1942

The 25 January 1942 declarations of war between Thailand and Great Britain (and the USA, New Zealand, South Africa and, on 2 March, Australia), were ruled "null and void" on August 16 1945, as they were deemed to have been made under coercion by an occupying power (broadly similar to that of Vichy France).

Far less interestingly, that leaves Bulgaria on 13 December 1941, although the declaration of war with Japan on 8 December 1941, the day after war had been declared on Finland, Hungary and Romania, is better known mainly as a result of the letter Winston Churchill (acting Foreign Minister) sent to the Japanese Ambassador:

Sir,
On the evening of December 7th His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom learned that Japanese forces without previous warning either in the form of a declaration of war or of an ultimatum with a conditional declaration of war had attempted a landing on the coast of Malaya and bombed Singapore and Hong Kong.
In view of these wanton acts of unprovoked aggression committed in flagrant violation of International Law and particularly of Article I of the Third Hague Convention relative to the opening of hostilities, to which both Japan and the United Kingdom are parties, His Majesty's Ambassador at Tokyo has been instructed to inform the Imperial Japanese Government in the name of His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom that a state of war exists between our two countries.
I have the honour to be, with high consideration,

Sir,

Your obedient servant,

Winston S. Churchill

As he later wrote in his memoirs: "Some people did not like this ceremonial style. But after all, when you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite"

The remainder (as far as I know, since most were before my time) were either under the auspices of the UN, "police actions" or "conflicts" and the British Government has said that such declarations are effectively redundant (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200506/ldselect/ldconst/236/236i.pdf).

The last time the USA actually declared war was on June 5 1942 with Bulgaria, Hungary and Romania, although they accepted the Burmese declaration of war with them on 1 August 1943 which meant that this was the last country with which they were formally "at war".

Not declaring war has two main advantages. The Laws of Armed Conflict / International Laws of War do not apply (although this is highly debatable) and so, amonst other things, Prisoners of War do not need to be treated in accordance with the appropriate conventions (as Noriega and others, including those at Guantanamo Bay, have found out). It also enables a country to wage war on another country and kill military and civilians on their soil quite legitimately, while categorising anyone who does the same thing on "home ground" as a terrorist.



The Remembrance Day Service at the British Embassy will be held on 8 November this year - apply by the end of the month if you intend going.

(Sorry if that was not the intended answer giggsy, but it was probably as lengthy as you expected from me!)

I thought it was Argentina. Little tiff over the Falklands.

[Smiles]

I thought it was Argentina. Little tiff over the Falklands.
Can't recall an official 'declaration' on that one. I think they just sailed out to retake a (disputed) colony which was invaded by Argentina.

Are wars ever actually 'declared' nowadays? I think that little Victorianism went the way of the Dodo after WW2.

[Art]

Thailand. Incidentally, the declaration of war against Thailand was effective from 25 January 1942 to 1 January 1946.

Perhaps that is why a former British Ambassador described (http://timesmobile.mobi/ms/p/times/op/view.m?id=87442&tid=3019&cat=UK) Thailand and the Thais as
They have no literature, no painting and only a very odd kind of music; their sculpture, ceramics and dancing are borrowed from others, and their architecture is monotonous and interior decoration hideous. Nobody can deny that gambling and golf are the chief pleasures of the rich, and that licentiousness is the main pleasure of them all.

[giggsy]

Still, I was amazed to find that Britain had declared war on Thailand even if it was declared null and void.I thought the 1st time there was even any bad feeling with the 2 country's was when a certain t.v. staion started broadcasting Big trouble in tourist Thailand several weeks ago.I grew up watching films about the war and I thought we only hated the Germans and the Japs.
GF your answer explains why we are fighting the Taliban and not the afganistanis.It is easier all round to declare war on terroists rather than a country.No rules to break and no war crimes to answer.

[Brad the Impala]

Not declaring war has two main advantages. The Laws of Armed Conflict / International Laws of War do not apply (although this is highly debatable) and so, amonst other things, Prisoners of War do not need to be treated in accordance with the appropriate conventions (as Noriega and others, including those at Guantanamo Bay, have found out). It also enables a country to wage war on another country and kill military and civilians on their soil quite legitimately, while categorising anyone who does the same thing on "home ground" as a terrorist.


Actually the examples of Noriega and Guantanomo have everything to do with the American government's general disregard for International Law, and nothing to do with supposed advantages of not declaring war. The days of application of the Hague and Geneva conventions for PoWs are long gone, and the US refuses to be bound by the International Criminal Court.

I thought it was Argentina. Little tiff over the Falklands.
Can't recall an official 'declaration' on that one. I think they just sailed out to retake a (disputed) colony which was invaded by Argentina.

Are wars ever actually 'declared' nowadays? I think that little Victorianism went the way of the Dodo after WW2.

Correct on both counts, Smiles. There was no declaration of war over the Falklands by either side and it was officially designated a "conflict", by the UK, not a war.


Still, I was amazed to find that Britain had declared war on Thailand even if it was declared null and void......I grew up watching films about the war and I thought we only hated the Germans and the Japs.

Those who raise this urban myth overlook that Britain's declaration of a state of war with Thailand was reciprocal and so Britain did not declare war on Thailand but recognized that a state of war existed - not the same thing. Thailand formally declared war in a letter delivered by the Thai ambassador to the British government and then Britain had no option but to recognize (later the same day) that a state of war formally existed between the two countries. The Thai ambassador in Washington DC, however, refused to deliver his letter declaring war so the US never acknowledged that it was at war with Thailand, even though American planes bombed Bangkok and killed a number of civilians.

The self-exiled Thai royal family were in Britain and Switzerland throughout the war and they organised the Free Thai / Seri Thai resistance movement, mainly under the leadership of two Thai students (Puey Ungphakorn being one of them), which is considered by some to have been a legitimate "government in exile" as the King (formally the head of state) was not in Thailand and the Regent refused to agree to and sign much of the official government legislation (including Thailand's declaration of war). A similar movement in the US was organized by Mom Rajawongse Seni Pramoj, the Thai ambassador who had refused to deliver Thailand's declaration of war on the US.

Sorry, but technically it still means that Bulgaria was the last country Britain "declared war" against.