Issan dancers

[cdnmatt]

I'm sure we've all seen some Issan music here and there. Singer or two, with a bunch of dancers behind him / her, right? They travel all throughout Northern Thailand as a group performing, etc. I'm curious, has anyone here ever been close to one of the dancers, and if so, could you by chance provide any insight as to the lifestyle that leads? Just general info about the lifestyle, daily routine, etc. The farangs I've asked have no idea, and it's not something I'm comfortable asking the Thais I associate with. They'll know why I'm asking, so I can't expect an honest answer. Thais take care of their own, and all that.

And what happens if you get a job with a group when you're say 13 - 15yo? You're too young and small to be a dancer, so that's out. So what do you do? Take care of laundry, cleaning, dishes, pack clothes and equipment around, etc.? Or what happens? Or more bluntly, do you get passed around and/or sold for sex?

Any insight given would be appreciated. Thanks!

And what happens if you get a job with a group when you're say 13 - 15yo? You're too young and small to be a dancer, so that's out. So what do you do? Take care of laundry, cleaning, dishes, pack clothes and equipment around, etc.? Or what happens? Or more bluntly, do you get passed around and/or sold for sex?


Nice.

[Smiles]

The 'moving around' is not the norm, not the most common variety of Isaan music making.
Most of it happens in set venues where the same musicians, singers and dancers are up on stage seven nights a week. There are dozens, probably hundreds of these places in Bangkok alone ... some small holes in the wall, some very large, and very packed halls seating great crowds.
In Hua Hin there are three that I know of, and that's true of most Thai towns. Every town in the North East has at least one place where Isaan/Lao music and dancing, singing and food and gallons of whiskey and beer can be enjoyed.

There are 'travelling shows' but these are usually special events, getting huge crowds for the time they're in town, then they move on. Often these feature 'star singers', and they charge entrance fees. But these are not the norm.

Where you got the idea that 13 or 15 year old kids get 'passed around' for sex at either the former or the latter type of entertainment is beyond me.

Where you got the idea that 13 or 15 year old kids get 'passed around' for sex at either the former or the latter type of entertainment is beyond me.

His jerk-off fantasies, no doubt.

Where you got the idea that 13 or 15 year old kids get 'passed around' for sex at either the former or the latter type of entertainment is beyond me.

maybe its commonplace where he comes from?

[cdnmatt]

There are 'travelling shows' but these are usually special events, getting huge crowds for the time they're in town, then they move on. Often these feature 'star singers', and they charge entrance fees. But these are not the norm.

Yeah, yeah, he was in the traveling show. You know how every month or two in Pattaya they have a large Issan music festival by the driving range? He was in that type of show, except they only went through Issan mainly and the north west a bit, but never came down south.


Where you got the idea that 13 or 15 year old kids get 'passed around' for sex at either the former or the latter type of entertainment is beyond me.

Just me being human, not knowing, so naturally coming up with the worst possible conclusion. He does the same shit with me though. If I go out for a couple drinks with some people, or don't pick up my cell because I'm sleeping, obviously that means I'm having wild sex with my other Thai BF. I think he's even become somewhat friends with the security at Mosaik now, so if I ever do bring another boy home, he'll know about it. He gets pretty jealous and melodramatic about this shit.

Anyway, I have a pretty good idea of where he's coming from now though, but just trying to understand the best I can, that's all. I know he started working with the traveling show when he was too young to be a dancer. So either he hasn't told his friends what he was doing before dancing, or his friends won't tell me. Either way, I'm not allowed to know right now, so I'm assuming it's nothing too respectable. And it's not like I can just start asking personal questions (especially via a Thai translator), as getting too personal is a bit of a taboo in this part of the world.

Anyway, doesn't really matter, and thanks for your help!

So either he hasn't told his friends what he was doing before dancing, or his friends won't tell me. Either way, I'm not allowed to know right now, so I'm assuming it's nothing too respectable. And it's not like I can just start asking personal questions (especially via a Thai translator), as getting too personal is a bit of a taboo in this part of the world.

Taboo?? Its perfectly normal between friends! Thais do nothing but.

His friends are bound to tell him what you have been asking, if they have not already, so why not just ask him? Not everyone in these shows dances, etc, particularly in the travelling shows - some of the "stars" are far too precious to get their hands dirty putting up the stage, setting up the lights and speakers, selling ticketsand drinks, etc, so someone has to do it. There's no big secret about it (and no getting passed around either), so if there is a "secret" its got nothing to do with the "travelling show".

With all due respect, its difficult to know "where he's coming from now" if you don't yet know "where he's coming from".

[Beachlover]

How's the language barrier going? I can't believe you're still having to communicate through translators LOL... hope you at least have basic English/Thai down pat now.

Just a though, Matt (and sometimes mine are good, sometimes they are crap, so make of it what you want!) but why not ask yourself why you want to know?

If its because you think he may have been "passed around and/or sold for sex" or "nothing too respectable" and you are "coming up with the worst possible conclusion", then so what?

Even in the extremely unlikely event that your worst fears are justified, should that change whatever relationship you have? Although some disagree with me, to most of those "in the business" here its a job, nothing more, better than some and worse than others. Pretty well the only time they are made to feel ashamed of what they are/were is when some "saviour" comes along and rescues them (nothing wrong so far) and then insists on telling them what a terrible time they have had and how disgusted they must be with themselves. Why? You can't change his past (which was probably far more mundane than you imagine), only his future.

I thought it was his future you were worrying about? If so, don't worry about his past as he will tell you as much or as little as you need to know. By the sound of it that is 6 years of education (6-13 years old), so if you/he are thinking of any sort of formal vocational/technical training that means at least 4 years of adult education before he can move on to it. At the moment it looks as if all he wants is a good time at your expense (not unreasonable for most 19 year olds!) so my advice would be forget about his past and, if you still want what you said you did, start looking together at what the options are for his future before he becomes a bit too settled into his present lifestyle .

Just a though, Matt (and sometimes mine are good, sometimes they are crap, so make of it what you want!) but why not ask yourself why you want to know?

If its because you think he may have been "passed around and/or sold for sex" or "nothing too respectable" and you are "coming up with the worst possible conclusion", then so what?

Even in the extremely unlikely event that your worst fears are justified, should that change whatever relationship you have? Although some disagree with me, to most of those "in the business" here its a job, nothing more, better than some and worse than others. Pretty well the only time they are made to feel ashamed of what they are/were is when some "saviour" comes along and rescues them (nothing wrong so far) and then insists on telling them what a terrible time they have had and how disgusted they must be with themselves. Why? You can't change his past (which was probably far more mundane than you imagine), only his future.

I thought it was his future you were worrying about? If so, don't worry about his past as he will tell you as much or as little as you need to know. By the sound of it that is 6 years of education (6-13 years old), so if you/he are thinking of any sort of formal vocational/technical training that means at least 4 years of adult education before he can move on to it. At the moment it looks as if all he wants is a good time at your expense (not unreasonable for most 19 year olds!) so my advice would be forget about his past and, if you still want what you said you did, start looking together at what the options are for his future before he becomes a bit too settled into his present lifestyle .


Couldn't agree more.....


:hello1:

Hopefully with more than just my first line concerning my thoughts, sanook!

[Beachlover]

Some of these dynamics with working boys are probably true... it might regret his past more now that a "saviour" has come along. Or perhaps his past was more mundane (i.e. not passed around in a dancing troupe).

I think it's natural to be curious about a loved one's past though. We want to know the unknown.

I wonder why you might think that a teenager joining a dancing troupe would be "passed around"... sounds like an English boarding school!

[Beachlover]

I assume he's just told you "I worked for a dancing troupe".

Why not ask "what did you do in the dancing troupe?"... If he gives you a quick, straight answer like, "I wash costumes" or something than the mystery may be solved. If it's more vague... than you may never be sure.

[pong]

there are certainly also travel-around groupes. could be best compared to funfair (kermis, jarhmarkt, whatever word is used in Europe here) groups-setting up racingcars, swings, electric merrygoround etc. and operating/living in some big truck/caravan. In fact there are-on a notably lower/more oldfashioned style-many of those in LOS as well. They often have a circuit of temple fairs-same circuit every year. Could not the lads simply be the sons of the bisnispeople? Learnibng the trade by imitating-like is so very often the cas in other shops, manual labour service etc? And there certainly are girls there too.
A special segment of it are the likae groups (a kind of bawdy cabaret=-style improvised singing/frolicking)-with very heavy make-up and costumes. But after a few dozen of hem-take a Lao friend with you to translate-its all in a very heavy accent- it also becomes rather predictably all same-same though (the never ending kwaai=buffalo and kwoi= a mans... confusion) even gets pretty boring.

[cdnmatt]

How's the language barrier going? I can't believe you're still having to communicate through translators LOL... hope you at least have basic English/Thai down pat now.

My trip out of country kept getting delayed, so I've only been back in Thailand for about a week. My Thai is still horrid of course, but it gives us something to do together, and is definitely good for some laughs, especially when we're out in town. :-) It's cute too, because as I learn more phrases, you can tell he's absolutely loving it. And it's even cuter when he ends up with a big smile on his face after teaching me a new word or phrase.


but why not ask yourself why you want to know?

Just to understand where he's coming from, that's all. Why does he sometimes get so worked up and scared that I might be cheating on him, or might not like him? Why is his confidence somewhat lacking? Why is he so polite and respectful? Why has he attached himself to me in the way he has? Now that he's letting his guard down, and beginning to truly trust me (tough thing to do with a Thai, especially in Pattaya), why does he seem so much more at peace and content with life, instead of looking like such a lost puppy? Just things like that. I know the answers are pretty obvious, but still.


Even in the extremely unlikely event that your worst fears are justified, should that change whatever relationship you have?

No, of course not. I'm not that shallow of a person. :-) Besides, and not that I want to, but even if I did, I couldn't back out of this relationship anymore anyway. I wouldn't be able to sleep with myself at night if I ever did that to him. I'm in 'er for the long-haul now!


Some of these dynamics with working boys are probably true

He's not a working boy though. He was in that dancing troupe, then one of his buddies from Khon Kaen told him about all the riches to be made in this weird place called Pattaya, so he figured he better check it out for himself. A couple weeks later he decided he absolutely hated it, and we bumped into each other.


I assume he's just told you "I worked for a dancing troupe".

No, I've known that one for a long time. One night he was sleeping, so I was hanging out and having whiskey with his roommate, and a couple secrets popped out that I didn't know before. He doesn't know that I know, and I guess keeps saying he'll fess up later, but is scared I'll get angry at him. Especially now that they know me better, and know lieing is one of the only things that make me angry. I generally don't care what the truth is, but just don't lie about it. You can thank my mom for that little trait.


I wonder why you might think that a teenager joining a dancing troupe would be "passed around"

Nevermind about that one, and that was just me being an idiot. No, it's just now that I see him changing, you can tell he hasn't been content and happy with his life for quite a while, and is beginning to now. So I was just curious about his past, that's all.

Anyway, whatever, doesn't really matter. All is well in the world! Now it's just a matter of adjusting to my new, lower standard of living, which won't even take affect for a few more days. I figure if I want Thais, especially the BF, to view me as more of an equal, I better get down to their level a little more. No more luxury condos, no more restaurants, no more long-haul taxi rides, etc. That's all gone. :-)

[Beachlover]

you can tell he hasn't been content and happy with his life for quite a while, and is beginning to now.

That's sweet...

I figure if I want Thais, especially the BF, to view me as more of an equal

You come across as a great guy in this thread. When in doubt saving money isn't the worst thing that you could do!

Good luck to the two of you, sounds like the start of something good.

I figure if I want Thais, especially the BF, to view me as more of an equal, I better get down to their level a little more. No more luxury condos, no more restaurants, no more long-haul taxi rides, etc. That's all gone.

First things first. He will never see you as an equal. Never. Not under any circumstances, at least in this life. Neither will the vast majority of Thais, even if they come from an identical social/financial background. Neither will they see you as a superior or an inferior (except in comparison to other farangs). This simply does not happen except with a few of those Thais who have been raised in a Western environment. You are a farang, a foreigner, totally outside the Thai system socially and in every other way. By changing the outward signs of your "level" all you are doing is indicating what sort of a farang you are, nothing more. If you are hoping to see whether changing your personal spending habits/lifestyle will change your popularity, it very probably will, but your knowledge of Thais and especially your knowledge of the language is simply not enough to enable you to have any real idea why.


Some of these dynamics with working boys are probably true

He's not a working boy though.....A couple weeks later he decided he absolutely hated it, and we bumped into each other.[/quote]

Matt, face up to reality and stop denying what he is/was and that it does not matter to you. He is what he is and accept it - you obviously haven't, otherwise you would not keep on constantly denying it. There's nothing wrong with it and nobody (or at least nobody that matters to you) cares - apart from you. You paid his off, and you paid him handsomely for his services - whether he is still working now or not is something you will only know with time, so stop beating yourself up about what he is/was and move on - it looks as if your confidence is lacking as much as his.

If you didn't look down on him and his friends you would not even be talking about getting "down to their level a little more". Accept him as he is, and if you are lucky he will accept you as you are and you can both move on.


but why not ask yourself why you want to know?

Just to understand where he's coming from, that's all.....I know the answers are pretty obvious

Let me help you with the blindingly obvious ones:

Why does he sometimes get so worked up and scared that I might be cheating on him, or might not like him?

Why do you? Additionally, the cynic in me has to add that he might be scared of losing his meal ticket.

Why is his confidence somewhat lacking?

Because he's an uneducated 19 year old with no prospects and no future apart from those you or someone else in your position can offer him. Apart from his looks and social skills what has he got to be confident about?

Why is he so polite and respectful?

Because he's an uneducated 19 year old ...etc, etc. and ....he might be scared of losing his meal ticket.

Why has he attached himself to me in the way he has?

Because he's an uneducated ....etc, etc and ....etc, etc.

why does he seem so much more at peace and content with life, instead of looking like such a lost puppy?

Because he's an uneducated .... etc, etc, who's getting used to the good life (and he doesn't yet know its about to end).

He doesn't know that I know, and I guess keeps saying he'll fess up later ....

"Fess up" to what?? And if you don't know anything about him, including what he's saying, he can't have lied to you. Chances are he may not want to tell you that he's never had to work for a living and he does not want to start now. On the other hand if he does not want to tell you something, why should he? He may be worried that you may misunderstand something, and by the sound of it he would be right. My partner doesn't know everything about me before we met (although he knows all the important things and I would tell him if it were important to him) and he is intelligent enough to know that there is no need or point in talking specifically about certain things in our pasts that were just "part of the job". Move on before you get stuck in a swamp of your own making.

[cdnmatt]

First things first. He will never see you as an equal. Never. Not under any circumstances ... By changing the outward signs of your "level" all you are doing is indicating what sort of a farang you are, nothing more.

Well, no shit sherlock. Really, do you think I'm that stupid? Right though, it indicates what sort of farang I am, which separates me from about 95% of the other farangs they see around. That's what I'm looking for.


Apart from his looks and social skills what has he got to be confident about?

This is actually one of the things I really dislike about SE Asia. For the most part, there's absolutely no opportunity for advancement whatsoever. If you're born poor, there's about a 99.98% chance you're going to die poor, whereas it's completely different in the West. In the West, even if you don't have a high school diploma, if you have some intelligence, a good work ethic and some ambition, you can still do very well for yourself. That's just simply not possible in Asia though, which sucks to see, especially when you see so many young, intelligent minds around.

As for the rest of your post, I won't bother. You're bitchy today. :-)

[Beachlover]

First things first. He will never see you as an equal. Never. Not under any circumstances ... By changing the outward signs of your "level" all you are doing is indicating what sort of a farang you are, nothing more.

Really, do you think I'm that stupid?

Absolutely, he does. :D

[cdnmatt]

If you didn't look down on him and his friends you would not even be talking about getting "down to their level a little more". Accept him as he is, and if you are lucky he will accept you as you are and you can both move on.

Either I missed this sentence while I was skimming your post, or you edited it in, but I have to reply to it.

I'm sorry, but who are you to tell me how I view Thais? I don't look down on them whatsoever, thank you very much. If anything, it's the complete opposite. They're the ones constantly pointing out the differences in nationality and skin color, whereas I'm the one constantly trying to convince them that it doesn't matter, because we all have the same color of blood flowing through our veins.

Next time you decide to jump to stupid conclusions like this, please remind yourself not to be such a pompous asshole, ok?

[Impulse]

I never had the impression that you looked down on Thais either.As long as he doesnt lie to you,and you accept anything he's done in the past,your going in the right direction.Have a Tiger bear and count your blessings.

[Beachlover]

My Thai BF in Sydney would sometimes tease me by joking in this moaning voice, "oooh... you look down on me"... when he clearly knew I didn't.

[Beachlover]

This is actually one of the things I really dislike about SE Asia. For the most part, there's absolutely no opportunity for advancement whatsoever. If you're born poor, there's about a 99.98% chance you're going to die poor, whereas it's completely different in the West. In the West, even if you don't have a high school diploma, if you have some intelligence, a good work ethic and some ambition, you can still do very well for yourself. That's just simply not possible in Asia though, which sucks to see, especially when you see so many young, intelligent minds around.

Not true. I would agree there's less opportunity for advancement and I would agree you need to work harder... but I would certainly not agree that there's "no opportunity for advancement whatsoever". There are plenty of examples of Asians born into poor backgrounds who have advanced to comfortable middle-class or wealthy status.

IMHO there's a few dynamics to be aware of here:

1. Awareness and access to knowledge is certainly lower for poorer Asians. Not knowing how to advance and what is possible is a major reason many live and die in the same place/status they were born. In developed countries, kids are more exposed to the possibilities. (Though this isn't consistent across all kids... in all areas... obviously).

2. Culture and values plays a role in this: Aspirational values play a large role in Australian, American and Chinese cultures. We believe in social mobility. The ability to "work our way up". We aspire to grow and work our way to a better place. This is in contrast to a more "know your place" attitude in the Thai culture. To most working class Thais, working their way up to the middle-class or wealthy class is not a possibility or anything worth aspiring to in their minds.

3. Many poor Thais are born into deprived backgrounds... they may have broken families... lack opportunity to go to school... etc. Obviously this starts them on the back foot. This doesn't mean these factors can't be overcome (on a situational basis)... it just makes it harder and less likely. Having said that, I know plenty of people who started on a "backfoot" and used this as "inspirational dissatisfaction" to work their way out.

[Brad the Impala]

My Thai BF in Sydney would sometimes tease me by joking in this moaning voice, "oooh... you look down on me"... when he clearly knew I didn't.

Funny.

What happened to you guys?

[Beachlover]

We cooled it off after a while. It was really difficult to find time to spend with him (incredible I know...) when he was free and when I was free he often wasn't. I was working such long hours at the time (still am... but not so bad now) and he also has limited time as he is studying and working at the same time.

The relationship was largely sexual (gawd, what a nice warm, inviting body he has)... but he does have a great personality and is lots of fun. He likes to joke a lot and he is quite witty and talkative. But there's a certain part of the chemistry that didn't fall in place for me... you know... that deep personal attraction?

We might pick it up again... I think. He is hot and is a lot of fun to be around. But we haven't spoken for a while now...

As long as .... you accept anything he's done in the past,your going in the right direction.

That, rocket, is my point (although maybe I could have been more concise and a bit more fawning, but I seldom am!). The problem is that Matt, from what he posts, clearly doesn't accept it, is in denial about it, and is not "going" anywhere. I know it may sound "pompous", but if Matt actually reads what I have said in detail he may realise that I am trying to give his relationship some chance of success.


Really, do you think I'm that stupid?

I would have thought that was obvious - but I am only going by what you post (the reality could be worse).


it indicates what sort of farang I am, which separates me from about 95% of the other farangs they see around

The only thing that separates you from "95% of the other farangs they see around" is the amount of money you are paying - and 99% would probably be more accurate, although I have known a few who have paid considerably more than you (although they could afford it considerablymore than you) and they knew exactly what they were doing.


Either I missed this sentence while I was skimming your post, or you edited it in, but I have to reply to it

You missed it - edited posts are shown as edited. Who am I "to tell you how you view Thais?" Someone who has done you the courtesy of reading your posts before commenting, rather than "skimming" them. You are the one who referred to getting "down to their level a little more" - when I learnt English, down meant down, not "the same".


For the most part, there's absolutely no opportunity for advancement whatsoever. If you're born poor, there's about a 99.98% chance you're going to die poor, whereas it's completely different in the West. In the West, even if you don't have a high school diploma, if you have some intelligence, a good work ethic and some ambition, you can still do very well for yourself. That's just simply not possible in Asia though, which sucks to see, especially when you see so many young, intelligent minds around.

For once we are in agreement in principle, but as BL says the opportunities are not quite as bad as you say for those with the intelligence and drive; the big difference comes at the "lower-middle" level, where main-stream jobs are tied to qualifications.

[cdnmatt]

The problem is that Matt, from what he posts, clearly doesn't accept it.

If you read my posts, you'd realize I love him more than enough to accept him for whoever he is. Sure, I want to know about him, including his past, because I love him, and that's just what happens when you love someone. We still have a bit of a language barrier to work around though, and those type of conversations aren't made for a translator.



Really, do you think I'm that stupid?

I would have thought that was obvious - but I am only going by what you post (the reality could be worse).

Awww, come on, don't be cruel. Hey, you live in Pattaya but not Pattaya, so let's get together for dinner sometime. We'll invite Bottoms Up for entertainment.


it indicates what sort of farang I am, which separates me from about 95% of the other farangs they see around


The only thing that separates you from "95% of the other farangs they see around" is the amount of money you are paying - and 99% would probably be more accurate

Actually, he's been quite cheap since I got back to Thailand, and very careful about it as well. We've only went out once in the past 10 days, for example, and cash amount hasn't been high at all either. I promised him we'd go out tonight though. This is actually turning into a genuine, loving relationship now. There's no way this is all fake, and if it is, he deserves an Emmy. But no, it's not.


although they could afford it considerably more than you

See, now this is you jumping to stupid conclusions again. Don't do that. How do you know what my financial status is? Just because I'm in my 20s, working within the online software industry, and capable of working remotely, doesn't mean I'm some lowly freelancer at $30/hour, eh?


You are the one who referred to getting "down to their level a little more" - when I learnt English, down meant down, not "the same".

Do I really need to spell it out? For example, instead of spending 1500 baht on a nice steak dinner, I'm more than happy to eat out at a noodle stand with them for 30 baht. Obviously I'll never be equal in their eyes, but from my experience, making the effort means quite a bit to them. After all, I'm the foreigner, not them. Same goes for me learning Thai. And BTW... do you really have to bitch so loudly about stupid semantics all the time? You do this to tons of people.


For once we are in agreement in principle, but as BL says the opportunities are not quite as bad as you say for those with the intelligence and drive; the big difference comes at the "lower-middle" level, where main-stream jobs are tied to qualifications.

Yeah, that part remains to be seen. It's just Thailand doesn't exactly embrace entrepreneurship, and like Beachlover said, it's more of a "know your place" type of society.

Thailand doesn't embrace entrepreneurship? What a lot of absolute crap.

Where else can you buy a blanket for 50 baht, sit down on the pavement, lay out your wares, and be in business in about 5 minutes? What would happen if you tried to do that on the pavement of your home town?

In fact, the barriers to entrepreneurship in Thailand are extremely low. Anyone can start a business anytime they want, with no fuss at all.

Don't let your loser prostitute boyfriends tell you otherwise.

Where else can you buy a blanket for 50 baht, sit down on the pavement, lay out your wares, and be in business in about 5 minutes?Is it necessary to wear a pink shirt at the same time?

[Brad the Impala]

We might pick it up again... I think. He is hot and is a lot of fun to be around. But we haven't spoken for a while now...

Sounds like you both had fun and may again.

If you read my posts, you'd realize I love him more than enough to accept him for whoever he is.

Matt, strange as it may seem I believe that you genuinely do, which is why rather than just try to pick holes in your relationship (which would be very easy and even how it may appear) I am trying to do something to help you (as in both of you, as I think that he may deserve it even if my views on you are not quite so generous). The first problem I have is that you keep on denying that he was what you yourself said he was - as I recall when you met he was on stage in his underwear in a go-go bar, not at the England vs Thailand Under 21 Polo Match. While he may have been doing in depth research into the mating habits of Homo Vulgaris for his PhD it is more likely he was working. You also said (in separate posts) that he had been working for a fortnight and that if he was still working he would probably be earning 30,000 baht or so a month, which seems to make it unlikely that you were his first client despite what you may have been told. So what? So neither of you were virgins - that's all. Accept him for what he is now, regardless of what he may have been in the past - that's what happens when you love someone! Until you do, and that means accepting that he was a "working boy" for at least some period in his life, wheher you like it or not, then you have not accepted him.


..... let's get together for dinner sometime. We'll invite Bottoms Up for entertainment.

But where would we go? (Please don't answer that!)


See, now this is you jumping to stupid conclusions again. Don't do that. How do you know what my financial status is?

I don't know - but I do know that you wrote "I'm no millionaire (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/search.php?keywords=millionaire&terms=all&author=cdnmatt&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search)" which, in comparison to some people I have met here offing boys, makes you a pauper whose "financial status" is barely a fraction of a percent of theirs, at best. If I am "stupid" to believe you that is hardly a point in your favour.


Do I really need to spell it out? For example, instead of spending 1500 baht on a nice steak dinner, I'm more than happy to eat out at a noodle stand with them for 30 baht.

So what? It obviously means far more to you than it does to "them". You are a farang: you are never going to be equal, superior, or inferior, you will always just be a farang. This isn't just "stupid semantics" its about understanding people.


It's just Thailand doesn't exactly embrace entrepreneurship, and like Beachlover said, it's more of a "know your place" type of society.

I am afraid that BB is 100% right - "absolute crap". While Thailand is certainly "more of a "know your place" type of society" than, say, Australia where "Jack is as good as his master", "entrepreneurship" is alive and well for those with the ability and drive, and social status/entry to "hi-so" is far more readily available to those with the money than in some other Asian countries (and even some Western ones).

My "second" problem with what you write (the first being accepting what he is/was) is that you appear to have double standards, which is nothing unusual for farangs here but which I find rather unpleasant. You bang on about wanting to know about him and even feeling entitled to do so because you love him, but have you told him everything about yourself? Does he, for example, know that you are still married and ultimately financially responsible for your partner in Canada? Does he know your education and "financial status"? I don't see any reason why he should, actually, at this stage, but neither do I see why you need to know such details about him. Its a two way street.

Similarly, your "little trait" of lying making you angry (with which I agree, incidentally); are you applying the same rules and expectations to yourself that you are to him? After all, you started off the relationship by being at best economical with the truth by "trying to "wow" him", fully intending that "first you sweep them off their feet, and later on it settles down" - how would you feel if you found out that he had the same intentions? Similarly (and here I am only speculating), if you feel that there is nothing wrong with your having the occasional "indulgence" with a Thai boy, do you feel the same way with his doing so with a farang? Again, its a two way street.

Matt, if you think I am just "bitching loudly" and being critical for the sake of it, that's up to you. I am simply telling it as I see it, based on your own posts (which is all I have (and want!) to go on. While you may find some of what I say unpleasant or unpalatable, try to think of anyone else here who has given you any constructive advice (or, come to think of it, any advice at all!).

[Beachlover]

Here's a cool report, pics and video of one of these Isaan concerts in Patts... sounds fun. Anyone know if there is one in Bangkok? Where can you find out about them?

http://www.gaytingtong.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5728

[Smiles]

" ... Anyone know if there is one in Bangkok? Where can you find out about them? ... "
Go to any host or GoGo bar in Bangkok and ask any guy there where's a good place to go to hear Isaan music. Each will give you a list of a dozen or so. Most of these places don't have websites or other fancydancy advertising methods because they don't need it ... they're full every night.

Favourites of mine include a place named 'Thawan Daeng' on Petchburi Rd. and 'Duan Pen' by Klong Tan just off South Sathorn Rd. These are not special concerts (which tend to be very crowded, very dusty, very hot) but everynight affairs where you'll the same music and dancing in a more natural and relaxed atmosphere where the food is good, the seating assured, the booze is cheap, and the sanook is unrestrained.
These places are where Isaan folk go when they're away from their homes and villages and working in cities like Bangkok. They go to hear and dance to their own music, which is different from regular Thai music ... the 'style' is easily recognizable if you frequent these places enough.

Take a Thai guy with you to help you give the taxi driver directions ... he'll be more than happy to go to either for a night out.

and 'Duan Pen' by Klong Tan just off South Sathorn Rd.

Klong Tan is nowhere near South Sathorn Road. It's where Ramkhamhaeng turns into Sukhumvit 71.

Either the "Klong Tan" portion of your instructions or the "South Sathorn Rd." portion is incorrect.

[Beachlover]

Do you thinking asking a Isaan/Thai boy and a bunch of his friends out to an Isaan concert would make a good night out?

I'm thinking of good places to take a Thai boy on a date... any ideas?

[cdnmatt]

Do you thinking asking a Isaan/Thai boy and a bunch of his friends out to an Isaan concert would make a good night out?

Most definitely. Get a Thai boy to take to one of the Isaan music places that Smiles was talking about, and all involved will probably have a really enjoyable night. Probably a much cheaper night to, because Thais frequent places where a bottle of whiskey + mix + personal server who ensures nobody's glass is ever less than half costs about 500 - 1000 baht, versus 1300 - 2500 baht that farang orientated places charge. If wanted, you can also buy a bottle of whiskey at a 7-11, and bring it in with you, so you only pay for the mix + ice + small cover for table + tip.

Not sure about Bangkok, but there's two of those types of places in Pattaya, and you have to make sure you're sitting at a table by 1am at the latest. That's when the majority of bar workers end their shift, and they flood the place, so if you show up after 1am, you're probably not going to get a table. We usually goto the one in Pattaya once or twice a week, and it's always good for a night out.

Not to mention, once you get the Thai guy back to your room after being filled up on Isaan music, food, and dancing, he becomes that much more fierce in bed from my experience. :-)

[Beachlover]

Thanks Matt... Sounds like fun. I'll have to find the equivalent in Bangkok... or maybe make another visit to Pattaya sometime.

So any other ideas for taking a Thai boy out in Bangkok?

What about Phuket?... Anyone have any ideas? If you had a special boy in Phuket and wanted to take him out for something he'd enjoy...?

[Brad the Impala]

Some guys would like the show at Fantasea, some would be impressed by a candlelit meal at Baan Rim Paa, Joe's or Da Maurizio, some would prefer a larger group of friends for a meal at a seafood restaurant opposite Paradise, or you can push the boat out for a meal at Mom Tri's Boathouse.

But almost all of them would rather be enjoying an evening with their friends instead of spending it with a trick. Truth be told.

[Smiles]

But almost all of them would rather be enjoying an evening with their friends instead of spending it with a trick. Truth be told.Mostly true.


" ... and 'Duan Pen' by Klong Tan just off South Sathorn Rd. .. "
Klong Tan is nowhere near South Sathorn Road. It's where Ramkhamhaeng turns into Sukhumvit 71. Either the "Klong Tan" portion of your instructions or the "South Sathorn Rd." portion is incorrect.
Duen Pen is located on Thanon Naradhiwas Rajanagarindra just off S. Sathorn Rd. I assume I heard my guy incorrectly as I didn't want to post that rather long street name as it's not quite as memorable as 'Petchburi Rd'. My ear 'heard' 'Tan' or 'Klong' but I guess I was wrong. Happens all the time.

Do you thinking asking a Isaan/Thai boy and a bunch of his friends out to an Isaan concert would make a good night out? I'm thinking of good places to take a Thai boy on a date... any ideas?
How weird ... answer a guy's post and he doesn't even bother reading the information.

" ... Sounds like fun. I'll have to find the equivalent in Bangkok... or maybe make another visit to Pattaya sometime. So any other ideas for taking a Thai boy out in Bangkok? ... "
Again? Does Beachlover bother to go back and attempt to glean some answers to his query, or perhaps just daft?

[Beachlover]

Some guys would like the show at Fantasea, some would be impressed by a candlelit meal at Baan Rim Paa, Joe's or Da Maurizio, some would prefer a larger group of friends for a meal at a seafood restaurant opposite Paradise, or you can push the boat out for a meal at Mom Tri's Boathouse.

Hmmm... thanks... interesting.

I saw the Fantasea show on my first trip there.... I actually found it a bit tacky and touristy but it was ok.

Thanks for the restaurant suggestions... sounds like some of the better places are away from the middle of Patong beach.

[Beachlover]

Do you thinking asking a Isaan/Thai boy and a bunch of his friends out to an Isaan concert would make a good night out? I'm thinking of good places to take a Thai boy on a date... any ideas?
How weird ... answer a guy's post and he doesn't even bother reading the information.

Not really.

The initial question was about whether anyone knew one in Bangkok. The next questions asks if this would make a good night out with a boy. Your post touched on this... but I don't think it's a crime to seek clarity or comment.




" ... Sounds like fun. I'll have to find the equivalent in Bangkok... or maybe make another visit to Pattaya sometime. So any other ideas for taking a Thai boy out in Bangkok? ... "
Again? Does Beachlover bother to go back and attempt to glean some answers to his query, or perhaps just daft?

What does "OTHER ideas for taking a Thai boy out in Bangkok" mean to you and how is this the same question as previous?

Irritable syndrome any?

Most bar boys would definitely NOT enjoy a meal out at Mom Tri's or Baan Rim Pa or da Maurizio. In fact they would likely feel very uncomfortable at those kinds of places. And the Thai food at Baan Rim Pa would not please their palate -- it is more like the crap they serve in farangland.

If you are enjoying the company of a 'Bar Boy' then let him take you to a place that he likes to eat at, you might be pleasantly surprised. Even some of the sidewalk vendors can serve up a delicious meal for very little cost........

:hello1:

If you are enjoying the company of a 'Bar Boy' then let him take you to a place that he likes to eat at, you might be pleasantly surprised. Even some of the sidewalk vendors can serve up a delicious meal for very little cost........

:hello1:

I guarantee it would be better than the dreck they serve at Baan Rim Pa...

I guarantee it would be better than the dreck they serve at Baan Rim Pa...

Hear, hear, and an awful lot lighter on the wallet ......

:hello1:

But almost all of them would rather be enjoying an evening with their friends instead of spending it with a trick. (http://www.gayromeo.com/thonglorgwm) Truth be told.And vice versa.

[quote="Beach Bunny":36mnbh6u]But almost all of them would rather be enjoying an evening with their friends instead of spending it with a trick. (http://www.gayromeo.com/thonglorgwm) Truth be told.And vice versa.[/quote:36mnbh6u]

How do you work that one out ?

The boys are "spending it with a trick" because they need the money - its their job.

The tricks are doing so with a boy because they either prefer that to an evening with their friends or they do not have any friends.

There is no "vice-versa".


Matt, getting back to the subject of Issan concerts, there was an excellent one at my local beach (Ban Amphur) last night, starring Pai Boonsathorn. The next ones there (I don't know who is performing yet) are due for 12 and 13th this month.

The next "biggie" I know of in Pattaya is on 14th this month on 3rd road, by the Big C turning. You can't miss the large advertisement board there.

Most of these things are advertised, but although a few are not on the "farang" calendar most are - the Pattaya Halloween Festival you went to, for example, was widely advertised around Sukhumvit/South Pattaya Road. The worst advertised event for some reason has been the Pattaya Balloon Festival which gets more people attending from Bangkok than from Pattaya. The third one is to be held from 10-13 December at the Thammasat Campus behind Bira circuit; worth going to for something different, with various displays during the day, morning and evening balloon flights, and evening concerts.

[sjaak327]

and 'Duan Pen' by Klong Tan just off South Sathorn Rd.

Klong Tan is nowhere near South Sathorn Road. It's where Ramkhamhaeng turns into Sukhumvit 71.

Either the "Klong Tan" portion of your instructions or the "South Sathorn Rd." portion is incorrect.

Klong tan means a few things, it is named after the canal that runs where Klong Saen saeb goes north towards Bangkapi (parallel to Rhamkamhaeng. Klong Tan runs from that crossing all the way towards Sukhumvit. Second Klong tan is also a sub khet of Wattana. (Klong tan Nua). And yes the juntion between Rhamkamhaeng, Phetburi That Mia, Pattankarn (this is where Tawan Daeng and opposite the Issan Tawan Daeng are) and Sukhumvit Soi 71 is also named Klong Tan. Suk Soi 71 of course is nowadays better known as Pridi Phamonyong, the south side of this street (towards Sukhumvit) is also referred to as Phra Kanong, the north side (toward the klong tan junction) is referred to as Klong tan by some as well :)

Confusing isn't it.

In any case, on Pattakarn, just past the Klong Tan junction, you indeed have two venues opposite of each other, the Tawan Daeng, and the much better Issan Tawandaeng. The latter has a great band and ditto dance group.

[cdnmatt]

Ok guys, tonight's the night in Pattaya. I've been told the Issan concert tonight is supposed to be a doozy. The largest one in months, they say!

There must be a few SGT members going, so any report you guys could give would be great! I'm not going to this one, and sent the BF off on his own. I don't dance, and he absolutely loves to dance, but around me he's shy, and won't dance much at all. So I'd rather he goes off with his friends without me, because he'll have more fun that way.

If anyone wants to give a report though, I'm sure many would here would be appreciative!

[Beachlover]

Loves to dance... maybe he did do some of the dancing or performing when he was working for the Isaan dancing troupe.

dunno about Isaan dancing at Pattaya, but the On Nut Fair started tonight. the stage with Isaan music and dancing is about 200m from my condo, quite loud with a bit of an obscured view from the balcony. looks like I will be getting a good dose of Isaan music for the next few nights, whether I go down there for a look or stay home. wonder what time it will finish?

I'd rather he goes off with his friends without me, because he'll have more fun that way.

Matt, I am not being funny ( I seldom am, apparently), but that shows more honesty, insight and understanding than most farangs show after decades here. Good luck to both of you.

I don't dance, and he absolutely loves to dance, but around me he's shy, and won't dance much at all.

I also love to dance and will often stay on the dance floor for a few hours straight, substituting it for the day's cardio routine at the gym. I think it's safe to say that most people don't care for, though. Now I'm more curious what this music is like (and if I could dance to it).