French Minister paid for sex with "boys" in Thailand

[Brad the Impala]

France's Culture Minister Frederic Mitterrand is facing intense pressure over a book he wrote that described paying for "young boys" in Thailand.

BBC Story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8296578.stm)

This may be an example of the lack of wisdom in referring to young guys as "boys". Mitterand is quoted elsewhere as saying that these were young men that he was referring to, but that he referred to all young men as "boys".

Poor boys ... I hope they have recovered from the horrid experience

Poor boys ... I hope they have recovered from the horrid experience

Talk about the pot calling the kettle :sign5: :sign5: :sign5: :sign5: :sign5:

Next thing on the agenda by the P.C. Brigade is to scrutinise, with possible prosecution anyone who mentions that they have/had a 'boy' friend or 'girl' friend...........

:hello1:

[Art]

http://www.hancinema.net/photos/photo10537.jpg

http://www.koreanfilm.org/unforgiven.gif
Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand: La mauvaise vie, suite...
(Le Festival de Cannes). Paris: Laffont, 2007. 106-107:
┬╗L'exp├йrience se r├йp├иte ce matin avec Unforgiven, superbe relation, par un godelureau de vingt-cinq ans, de l'apprentissage militaire o├╣ de jeunes conscrits mac├иrent dans une ├йtouffante atmosph├иre de bizutages, de brimades et d'homosexualit├й latente. [...] Mais c'est ├йvidemment tout le fonctionnement d'une soci├йt├й rigide, ├йtouffante et machiste que le film vitriole en l'enfermant symboliquement dans une caserne et l'omnipr├йsence du fantasme homo n'est que l'ultime rempart o├╣ peuvent s'abriter les sentiments. Je ne suis pas certain que Yoon Jong-bin ├йprouve vraiment du d├йsir pour les gar├зons mais il y a dans Unforgiven, comme dans le Happy Together de Wong Kar-wai qui m'avait tellement plu, cette reconnaissance de l'homosexualit├й comme r├йbellion intime, irr├йductible et lib├йratoire o├╣ je me retrouve mieux que dans le conformisme mou de la gentille communaut├й et du mod├иle ┬╗petit couple┬л ├а peu pr├иs admis aujourd'hui chez nous, sans regretter pour autant que nous ne soyons pas tous cor├йens.┬л

http://www.hancinema.net/korean_movie_The_Unforgiven.php
http://www.koreanfilm.org/kfilm05.html
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/art/2008/04/141_23056.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Together_(film)




Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand: "Une erreur oui, un crime non, une faute m├кme pas" (TF1)

http://tf1.lci.fr/infos/france/politique/0,,4837648,00-une-erreur-oui-un-crime-non-une-faute-meme-pas-.html

Don't forget to delete the awful super cookies (*.sol) of the Flash Player!



Vox populi (more than 250 comments):

http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/2009/10/08/01002-20091008ARTFIG00473-affaire-mitterrand-la-polemique-continue-d-enfler-.php?mode=commentaires



"La Mauvaise Vie" : le livre par lequel le scandale arrive

La Mauvaise Vie (├йditions Robert Laffont), de Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand, est paru en 2005. Avant de faire scandale, il a ├йt├й un ouvrage ├а succ├иs, vendu ├а pr├иs de 190 000 exemplaires. Dans ce r├йcit qualifi├й par un critique d'"autobiographie mi-r├йelle, mi-r├кv├йe", le futur ministre revisitait son enfance choy├йe, son adolescence hant├йe par les blessures que lui vaut l'homosexualit├й.

Il d├йcrit son go├╗t pour la clandestinit├й, l'habitude prise tr├иs t├┤t de payer les ├йtreintes des gar├зons et ces "foires aux ├йph├иbes" o├╣ le m├йpris de celui qui est pay├й n'a d'├йgal que le m├йpris de celui qui paye. Parmi les sc├иnes les plus fortes des pages hallucin├йes dans des maisons closes de Tha├пlande o├╣ des jeunes gens d├йfilent devant des hommes venus du monde entier, des nuits pluvieuses ├а Djakarta o├╣ le narrateur cueille un "boy" aux allures de paysan athl├йtique. "L'argent et le sexe, je suis au c┼Уur de mon syst├иme, celui qui fonctionne enfin, car je sais qu'on ne me refusera pas", ├йcrit l'auteur, face ├а cette profusion de chair ├а l'├йtal.

Lors de sa sortie, le livre n'a suscit├й aucune des critiques dont il est l'objet de la part du FN. "L'accueil de la presse a ├йt├й extraordinaire, unanime", se souvient Betty Nialet, son ├йditrice. "Quand on le lisait dans le corps du texte, cela n'a choqu├й personne. Il a ├йt├й reconnu comme un vrai ├йcrivain avec ce livre-l├а". Pour elle, Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand "ne fait pas l'apologie" du commerce des corps, "il se torture litt├йralement, il pose les probl├иmes ├йthiques et moraux". Ce succ├иs critique s'est accompagn├й d'un grand succ├иs public, avec une ├йdition de poche et, annonce Betty Nialet, une prochaine parution aux Etats-Unis puisque la traduction en anglais du livre est en cours.

http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article ... 23448.html (http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2009/10/08/la-mauvaise-vie-le-livre-par-lequel-le-scandale-arrive_1250864_823448.html)



Mitterrand vis├й pour ses ├йcrits sur le tourisme sexuel

Marine Le Pen l'accuse d'avoir ┬лd├йcrit par le menu la mani├иre dont il effectue du tourisme sexuel┬╗ dans son livre ┬лLa Mauvaise vie┬╗. Beno├оt Hamon (PS) juge lui aussi ┬лchoquant┬╗ cet ├йpisode, Xavier Bertrand (UMP) prend la d├йfense du ministre.

Pol├йmique ├а retardement. Plus de trois mois apr├иs sa nomination rue de Valois, Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand est vitup├йr├й pour un passage de son autobiographie Mauvaise vie, sur le tourisme sexuel. A lтАЩorigine de la charge: le Front National.

Lundi soir, Marine Le Pen, invit├йe sur le plateau de Mots crois├йs (France 2) pour un d├йbat intitul├й ┬лcrimes sexuels: comment emp├кcher la r├йcidive?┬╗, fait un virulent apart├й, reprochant au ministre de la Culture dтАЩavoir, dans ce livre paru en 2005, ┬лd├йcrit par le menu la mani├иre dont il effectue du tourisme sexuel et le plaisir quтАЩil a ├а aller payer des petits gar├зons tha├пlandais┬╗. ┬лIl lтАЩ├йcrit noir sur blanc et cet homme-l├а est ministre de la culture┬╗, tonne-t-elle, une fiche en main reprenant lтАЩextrait en question.

Une attaque que la la vice-pr├йsidente du FN nтАЩa visiblement pas improvis├йe. Comme le rapporte le site arretssurimages.net, ces citations essaiment dтАЩailleurs, depuis quelques mois, sur des sites dтАЩextr├кme droite. Et le FN avait lanc├й, le 1er octobre, une p├йtition r├йclamant sa d├йmission et demand├й lтАЩouverture dтАЩune enqu├кte judiciaire pour que le ministre ┬лsтАЩexplique sur ses d├йclarations┬╗.

Dans son communiqu├й, le parti dтАЩextr├кme droite mentionne ├йgalement lтАЩouvrage. Et cite le m├кme extrait - avec les m├кmes coupes -: ┬лJтАЩai pris le pli de payer pour des gar├зons [...] ├Йvidemment, jтАЩai lu ce quтАЩon a pu ├йcrire sur le commerce des gar├зons dтАЩici .[...] Je sais ce quтАЩil y a de vrai. La mis├иre ambiante, le maquereautage g├йn├йralis├й, les montagnes de dollars que ├зa rapporte quand les gosses nтАЩen retirent que des miettes, la drogue qui fait des ravages, les maladies, les d├йtails sordides de tout ce trafic. Mais cela ne mтАЩemp├кche pas dтАЩy retourner. Tous ces rituels de foire aux ├йph├иbes, de march├й aux esclaves mтАЩexcitent ├йnorm├йment [тАж] On ne pourrait juger quтАЩun tel spectacle abominable dтАЩun point de vue moral, mais il me pla├оt au-del├а du raisonnable [тАж] La profusion de jeunes gar├зons tr├иs attrayants et imm├йdiatement disponibles me met dans un ├йtat de d├йsir que je nтАЩai plus besoin de r├йfr├йner ou dтАЩocculter. LтАЩargent et le sexe, je suis au c┼Уur de mon syst├иme, celui qui fonctionne enfin car je sais quтАЩon ne me refusera pas.┬╗
┬лSe faire tra├оner dans la boue par le FN┬╗

Interrog├й ce mercredi ├а la sortie du conseil des ministres sur la controverse relanc├йe par son soutien au cin├йaste Roman Polanski, Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand fait mine de balayer ses d├йtracteurs dтАЩun revers de main : ┬лSe faire tra├оner dans la boue par le Front national est un honneur┬╗, l├вche-t-il, laconique.

Il poursuit la contre-attaque, plus tard dans la matin├йe, sтАЩen prenant cette fois ├а la gauche et accusant le parti socialiste de relayer les coups du FN: ┬лCтАЩest bien dommage de pouvoir imaginer que des ├йlus de gauche aillent rejoindre le Front national. Je dois dire que les bras mтАЩen tombent┬╗, d├йgaine-t-il ├а sa sortie de la commission des Affaires culturelles de lтАЩAssembl├йe nationale.

Et voil├а le secr├йtaire g├йn├йral de l'UMP, Xavier Bertrand qui se range du c├┤t├й de Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand dans cette affaire: ┬лJe d├йnonce les propos tenus par Beno├оt Hamon et le FN. De la part du FN, cela nous surprend moins. De la part de Beno├оt Hamon, c'est beaucoup plus surprenant et tout aussi choquant┬╗, a -t-il d├йclar├й ├а la presse dans les couloirs de l'Assembl├йe nationale.

┬лQuand je vois le Parti socialiste, par la voix de son porte-parole, se situer aujourd'hui sur le terrain de l'extr├кme droite, franchement o├╣ va-t-on?, poursuit-il. Se servir de la vie priv├йe des gens pour en faire des attaques politiques ou politiciennes, cela me rappelle les pires heures de l'histoire.┬╗

┬лIncontestablement choquant┬╗

Le porte-parole du PS, Beno├оt Hamon, interrog├й par lтАЩAFP, avait jug├й ┬лchoquant┬╗ cet ├йpisode de lтАЩouvrage et le fait ┬лquтАЩun homme puisse justifier, ├а lтАЩabri dтАЩun r├йcit litt├йraire, le tourisme sexuel┬╗. ┬лAu moment o├╣ la France sтАЩest engag├йe avec la Tha├пlande pour lutter contre ce fl├йau quтАЩest le tourisme sexuel, voil├а un ministre du gouvernement qui explique quтАЩil est lui-m├кme consommateur┬╗, sтАЩindigne Hamon, qui refuse quтАЩon puisse ┬лtout relativiser, m├кme ce qui est incontestablement choquant┬╗.

Le porte-parole du PS avait aussi exprim├й son embarras sur les accusateurs : ┬лCela fait le lit du Front national. On lui donne des arguments quтАЩil exploite ├а sa mani├иre habituelle, avec surench├иre┬╗. Mais voil├а, ┬лlтАЩaffaire existe┬╗, ajoute-t-il: ┬лLe FN, je sais ce que vaut ce parti, mais comme porte-parole du PS, je suis choqu├й par les propos du ministre.┬╗

Henri Guaino, conseiller sp├йcial du pr├йsident de la R├йpublique, a vol├й au secours du ministre de la Culture, jeudi, et qualifi├й la pol├йmique d'┬лindigne┬╗, soulignant qu'┬лil n'y pas de faits┬╗ contre lui. ┬лTout cela est plein d'exc├иs, tout cela est assez indigne au fond┬╗, a-t-il d├йplor├й sur France 2. Interrog├й pour savoir si Mitterrand pouvait rester au gouvernement, Guaino a r├йpondu: ┬лJe ne vois pas o├╣ est le probl├иme, je ne vois pas pourquoi quand on soul├иve une pol├йmique aussi path├йtique que celle-ci avec autant de retard, on devrait en tirer des cons├йquences aussi radicales.┬╗

Xavier Darcos, a, lui, appel├й le ministre ├а ┬лr├йpondre autrement que simplement par l'indignation┬╗. ┬лIl n'y a pas de juge qui lui court apr├иs, personne ne fait de reproche ├а Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand sur le plan l├йgal, on lui fait un reproche sur des comportement personnels, des comportements moraux, c'est ├а lui de r├йpondre ├а cela┬╗, a estim├й le ministre du Travail, sur France Inter.

http://www.liberation.fr/politiques/010 ... sme-sexuel (http://www.liberation.fr/politiques/0101595696-mitterrand-vise-pour-ses-ecrits-sur-le-tourisme-sexuel)



La pol├йmique enfle, Mitterrand va s'expliquer

Alors qu'Henri Guaino ou Brice Hortefeux soutiennent le ministre de la Culture, qui s'exprimera ce soir sur TF1, Xavier Darcos lui demande de ┬лclarifier les choses┬╗. A gauche, des ├йlus exigent son ├йviction du gouvernement.

La grande explication. Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand va tenter jeudi soir sur le plateau du 20 heures de TF1 de justifier un passage de son livre ┬лLa mauvaise vie┬╗ ├йcrit voil├а cinq ans, alors que la pol├йmique sur cet extrait de son ouvrage, o├╣ il raconte avoir eu recours ├а de jeunes prostitu├йs en Tha├пlande, n'en finit pas de rebondir.

Henri Guaino, conseiller sp├йcial de Nicolas Sarkozy, s'est indign├й sur France 2 de cette controverse, lanc├йe ├а l'initiative du Front National. ┬лTout cela est plein d'exc├иs, tout cela est assez indigne au fond┬╗, explique Henri Guaino, pour qui ┬лil n'y a pas de faits┬╗, puisque Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand n'a fait qu'├йcrire un livre.

Autre soutien au ministre de la Culture, celui de Brice Hortefeux, qui dit ne pas ├кtre au courant que ce livre existait et s'interroge sur la r├йalit├й des faits ├йcrits. Selon lui, ┬лc'est un sujet qui est parti tr├иs rapidement. Comme c'est tr├иs rapide, pr├йcis├йment, il faut se m├йfier des jugements ├а l'emporte-pi├иce et des culpabilit├йs pr├й-annonc├йes┬╗. Et le ministre de l'Int├йrieur d'ajouter : ┬лJe ne connaissais pas Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand avant son entr├йe au gouvernement, j'observe aujourd'hui que, comme ministre de la Culture, il est unanimement salu├й, reconnu, respect├й de tous par sa comp├йtence┬╗.

Plusieurs autres responsables politiques sont d'un avis diff├йrent. C'est le cas de Xavier Darcos. Le ministre du Travail estime qu'il faut que son coll├иgue ┬лdise les choses (...) il faut qu'il r├йponde autrement que par l'indignation. Il le fera parfaitement┬╗. Interrog├й sur l'opinion que pouvait avoir Nicolas Sarkozy de cette affaire, Xavier Darcos estime que ┬лle pr├йsident r├йpondra comme moi que ce n'est pas le ministre qui est en cause mais la vie priv├йe d'un homme┬╗. ┬лSur ce sujet, seul cet homme peut r├йpondre┬╗.

Le ministre du Travail est par ailleurs revenu sur la g├йn├иse de cette pol├йmique. ┬лC'est depuis que Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand a rejoint le gouvernement que le Front national et le PS se souviennent de ce qu'il a ├йcrit nagu├иre┬╗, a ironis├й le ministre du Travail. ┬лJe ne suis pas un sp├йcialiste de la chasse ├а l'homme, j'ai trouv├й qu'il y a un peu de d├йrive quand je vois Marine Le Pen qui ne parle pas de jeunes hommes mais de petits gar├зons┬╗. De plus, ┬лil n'y a pas de juge qui lui court apr├иs, personne ne fait de reproche ├а Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand sur le plan l├йgal┬╗, explique Xavier Darcos.

C├йcile Duflot, chef de file des Verts, estime ├йgalement qu'il faut que Mitterrand r├йponde. S'├йtonnant que ┬лcela devienne une pol├йmique aussi somptueuse maintenant, quatre ans apr├иs la publication du livre┬╗, la responsable ├йcologiste juge qu'┬лil faut faire la diff├йrence entre un livre et la r├йalit├й┬╗ et surtout ┬лposer la question ├а Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand┬╗. ┬лLa situation n'est pas exclue, il suffit de clarifier les choses tranquillement avec lui, et il le fera je pense┬╗, a ajout├й C├йcile Duflot. Mais ┬лsi ce n'est pas le cas, il ne faut pas faire d'amalgame (entre p├йdophilie et homosexualit├й, Ndlr) car c'est un danger permanent, qui a stigmatis├й les homosexuels pendant des ann├йes┬╗.

Montebourg demande le limogeage de Mitterrand

La position de Manuel Valls, comme celle de la plupart des responsables socialistes, est plus dure. Selon lui, ┬лon peut toujours faire la part entre l'homme, l'intellectuel et le fantasme mais quand on lit ses propos, ils sont incontestablement choquants┬╗. ┬лCe sont des ├йcrits que je consid├иre moi aussi insupportables, on ne peut ├кtre qu'indign├й par toute apologie de l'exploitation sexuelle┬╗, estime le d├йput├й-maire d'Evry. Selon lui, ┬лil appartient maintenant ├а Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand, parce qu'il est un ministre de la R├йpublique, parce qu'il y a pol├йmique sur un th├иme sensible pour les Fran├зais, de s'expliquer┬╗. Ensuite, ┬лil appartiendra au pr├йsident de la R├йpublique et au premier ministre de d├йcider quels doivent ├кtre le sort et l'avenir de Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand┬╗.

Plus radical encore, Jean-Paul Huchon, pr├йsident PS du conseil r├йgional d'Ile-de-France, estime qu'il est ┬лdifficile de maintenir au gouvernement une personne qui a ├йt├й carr├йment coupable de faits que le gouvernement poursuit┬╗. Il pose la question qui f├вche : ┬лEst-ce bien raisonnable d'avoir un ministre qui se vante d'avoir fait du tourisme sexuel ? Je pense c'est une question plus que politique, c'est une question ├йthique┬╗.

R├йflexion identique pour Arnaud Montebourg, qui juge, apr├иs lecture de l'ouvrage controvers├й, qu'┬лil para├оt impossible que le premier ministre et le pr├йsident de la R├йpublique puissent, ayant d├йsormais connaissance de l'apologie comme de l'aveu par l'int├йress├й de pratiques sexuelles condamnables et constituant des infractions p├йnales, relevant selon les termes l'auteur de тАШcommerce' sexuel impliquant des тАШgosses qui n'en retirent que des miettes', maintenir en fonction un ministre ayant agi d├йlib├йr├йment en violation des lois nationales et internationales┬╗.

Une voix discordante s'est ├йlev├йe dans les rangs socialistes : celle de Bertrand Delano├л. Le maire de Paris explique sur son blog que ┬лFr├йd├йric Mitterrand a publi├й un livre courageux┬╗. ┬лIl trouve des mots poignants pour dire ┬лla culpabilit├й de toujours, la honteтАж┬╗. Loin de faire l'apologie du tourisme sexuel, il d├йcrit au contraire l'impasse que repr├йsente toute relation tarif├йe, jetant un regard implacable sur son propre cheminement┬╗. ┬лQue chacun lise - ou relise - cet ouvrage avant de clouer son auteur au pilori, s'engouffrant ainsi - volontairement ou non - dans la manipulation orchestr├йe par le Front national┬╗.

Pour l'UMP, le PS est sur la m├кme ligne que le FN

La voix du maire de Paris est bien solitaire au PS. Mercredi d├йj├а, Beno├оt Hamon s'├йtait, le premier, dit ┬лchoqu├й┬╗ par les ├йcrits de Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand, tandis que le d├йput├й Patrick Bloche parlait d'├йcrits ┬лinsupportables┬╗. Martine Aubry, elle, pr├йf├йrait la prudence, assurant n'avoir pas lu le livre et assurant ┬лne pas imaginer┬╗ que le ministre se soit livr├й ├а ┬лune apologie du tourisme sexuel┬╗.

Pierre Moscovici, d├йput├й PS du Doubs, est l'invit├й du Talk Orange-Le Figaro jeudi. Il appelle ├а ┬лun peu de retenue┬╗. ┬лJe ne souhaite pas que l'on tombe dans la politique trash┬╗, pr├йcise-t-il, tout en reconnaissant que ┬лce qu'├йcrit Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand dans son livre n'est pas un mod├иle. Mais, insiste-t-il, ┬лon ne va pas demander la d├йmission d'un ministre pour une affaire de moeurs┬╗.

Autre r├йaction plut├┤t favorable au ministre ├а gauche, celle de Daniel Cohn-Bendit sur le site internet du Parisien. S'il avait critiqu├й le fait que Mitterrand d├йfende Polanski, l'eurod├йput├й Vert vient, cette fois, ├а son secours. ┬лTout le monde parle du livre sans l'avoir lu. Moi je l'ai lu, ce n'est ├йvidemment pas beau ce qu'il y a dedans, c'est un livre terrible. Mais c'est une th├йrapie publique, c'est courageux de la part de Mitterrand, je respecte sa d├йmarche┬╗, explique-t-il. Et Cohn-Bendit, lui-m├кme accus├й en direct par Fran├зois Bayrou de p├йdophilie ├а quelques jours des ├йlections europ├йennes de juin dernier, d'estimer ┬лinacceptable┬╗ la r├йaction de Beno├оt Hamon. ┬лLes socialistes sont pr├кts ├а taper sur Sarkozy sur tout et n'importe quoi. Si, demain, le FN dit 'Sarkozy a une politique de l'immigration trop faible', ils suivront ?┬╗.

Suite aux d├йclarations de Beno├оt Hamon, Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand avait d├йnonc├й la proximit├й du PS avec le FN, jugeant ┬лdommage de pouvoir imaginer que des ├йlus de gauche aillent rejoindre le Front national┬╗. Un arguement relay├й par Xavier Bertrand, qui expliquait que ┬лse servir de la vie priv├йe des gens pour en faire des attaques politiques ou politiciennes┬╗ lui rappelait ┬лles pires heures de l'histoire┬╗ Quant au Front national, il admet avoir orchestr├й cette pol├йmique, suite ├а l'affaire Polanski et au soutien controvers├й du ministre au r├йalisateur, et demande la d├йmission du ministre.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/2009/1 ... nfler-.php (http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/2009/10/08/01002-20091008ARTFIG00473-affaire-mitterrand-la-polemique-continue-d-enfler-.php)
[/quote][/quote]

Ooo La La

Poll needed, how many posters in here read French?

:hello1:

Next thing on the agenda by the P.C. Brigade is to scrutinise, with possible prosecution anyone who mentions that they have/had a 'boy' friend or 'girl' friend...........

:hello1:

Im sure they will find plenty of old gents around Sunee Plaza who call their fovourite prostitute "My Boyfriend" or My Boy Special" :hello1: :hello1: :hello1:

Poll needed, how many posters in here read French?

:hello1:

Moi !

La langue fran├зaise ! :leb: :leb: :leb:

[dab69]

The controversy swells, Mitterrand will be explained

Then Henry Guaino or Brice Hortefeux support the Minister of Culture, who will speak tonight on TF1, Xavier Darcos asked to "clarify things." Left, elected officials demanding his ouster from the government.

The great explanation. Frederic Mitterrand will try Thursday night on the plateau of 20 hours of TF1 to justify passage of his book "Bad Life" written five years ago, when the controversy over this excerpt from his book where he describes how he used to young prostitutes in Thailand, can not stop bouncing.

Henri Guaino, special adviser to Nicolas Sarkozy, has shocked France on 2 of this controversy, launched at the initiative of the National Front. "All this is full of excess, this is so worthless to the bottom," says Henri Guaino, for whom "there are no facts," as Frederic Mitterrand has been writing a book.

Other support to the Minister of Culture, one of Brice Hortefeux, who said he was not aware that this book existed and questioned the facts in writing. He said, "is a subject that has gone very quickly. As is very rapid, precise, we must be wary of judgments to the punch and guilt pre-announced. And the interior minister added: "I do not know Frederic Mitterrand before joining the government, I note today that, as Minister of Culture, it was unanimously welcomed, recognized, respected by all his competence ".

Several other politicians have a different opinion. This is the case of Xavier Darcos. Labor Minister considers it necessary that his colleague "say things (...) he must respond other than by indignation. He will do well. " Asked about the views that could be Nicolas Sarkozy this case, Xavier Darcos said that "the President will meet with me that this is not the minister who is involved but the privacy of a man." "On this subject, only that man can answer."

The Minister of Labor is also back on the genesis of this controversy. "Ever since Frederic Mitterrand joined the government that the National Front and the PS remember what he wrote once," quipped the Minister of Labor. "I am not an expert in the manhunt, I found that there is little drift when I see Marine Le Pen, who does not speak of young men but young boys." Moreover, "there is no judge who runs after him, nobody makes criticizes Frederic Mitterrand on the legal front," said Xavier Darcos.

C├йcile Duflot, leader of the Greens, also believes it must respond Mitterrand. Surprised that "it becomes a controversy as sumptuous now, four years after the publication of the book," the judge responsible environmentalist that "there is a difference between a book and reality" and especially "to ask Frederic Mitterrand . "The situation is not excluded, just to clarify things quietly with him, and he will I think," said Cecile Duflot. But "if this is not the case, do not do amalgam (between pedophilia and homosexuality, Editor's note) because it is a constant danger, which has stigmatized homosexuals for years."

Montebourg demand the sacking of Mitterrand

The position of Manuel Valls, like most socialist leaders is harder. He said "we can always distinguish between the human, intellectual and fantasy, but when we read his words, they are definitely shocking." "These are messages that I consider too unbearable, we can not be indignant with the glorification of sexual exploitation," says the deputy mayor of Evry. According to him, "Now he belongs to Frederic Mitterrand, because he is a minister of the Republic, because there is controversy on a sensitive topic for the French, to explain." Then, "it is for the president and prime minister to decide what should be the fate and future of Frederic Mitterand.

More radical still, Jean-Paul Huchon, President PS Regional Council of Ile-de-France, said it was "difficult to maintain the government a person who was guilty of outright facts that the government pursues." It raises the vexed question: "Is it reasonable to have a minister who brags about having sex tourism? I think it is a larger question that politics is an ethical issue. "

Puzzle Arnaud Montebourg identical to that judge, after reading the controversial book, "it seems impossible that the Prime Minister and the President may, having become aware of the apology as an admission by the interested in sexual practices condemned and constituting a criminal offense, under the terms according to the author of 'trade' sex 'kids who do not derive only crumbs', according maintain a minister who acted willfully in violation of national laws and international.

A dissenting voice was raised in the Socialist ranks, that of Bertrand Delano├л. The mayor of Paris said on his blog that "Frederic Mitterrand issued a courageous book." "It is poignant words to say" always guilt, shame .... Far from condoning sex tourism, describing instead the impasse is any relationship priced, glancing over his own relentless path. "Let everyone read - or reread - this book before the author nailed to the pillory, and funnels - voluntarily or not - in the manipulation orchestrated by the National Front."

For the UMP, the PS is on the same line as the FN

The voice of the mayor of Paris is lonely at the PS. Wednesday already, Beno├оt Hamon had, first, says "shocked" by the writings of Frederic Mitterrand, while MP Patrick Bloche spoke of writing "unbearable". Martine Aubry, her preferred caution, ensuring he had not read the book and providing "not imagine" that the minister is engaged in "an apology for sex tourism."

Pierre Moscovici, MP PS Doubs, is the guest of Talk Orange-Le Figaro on Thursday. It calls for "a little restraint." "I do not want it falling into the political trash," says he, while recognizing that "Frederic Mitterand writes in his book is not a model. But, insists he, "we will not demand the resignation of a minister for a sex scandal."

Other more favorable reaction to the minister left, that of Daniel Cohn-Bendit on the website of the Parisian. If he had criticized the fact that Mitterrand defends Polanski, the Green MEP comes this time to his rescue. "Everybody talks about the book without having read it. I have read, this is obviously not good that's inside is a terrible book. But it is a therapy service is brave of Mitterrand, I respect his approach, "says he. And Cohn-Bendit, himself accused by direct Fran├зois Bayrou of pedophilia in a few days the European elections last June, to estimate "unacceptable" response to Beno├оt Hamon. "The Socialists are ready to tap Sarkozy on anything and everything. If, tomorrow, FN said 'Sarkozy has an immigration policy too low', they will follow? ".

Following the statements of Benedict Hamon, Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand denounced the vicinity of PS with the FN, saying "shame to think that elected officials left to go join the National Front." An argument echoed by Xavier Bertrand, who explained that "use of the privacy of individuals to make political attacks or politicians," he recalled "the worst hours of the story" On the National Front, he admits he orchestrated the controversy following the Polanski case and support the controversial minister to the director, and asked
....


The controversy swells, Mitterrand will be explained

Then Henry Guaino or Brice Hortefeux support the Minister of Culture, who will speak tonight on TF1, Xavier Darcos asked to "clarify things." Left, elected officials demanding his ouster from the government.

The great explanation. Frederic Mitterrand will try Thursday night on the plateau of 20 hours of TF1 to justify passage of his book "Bad Life" written five years ago, when the controversy over this excerpt from his book where he describes how he used to young prostitutes in Thailand, can not stop bouncing.

Henri Guaino, special adviser to Nicolas Sarkozy, has shocked France on 2 of this controversy, launched at the initiative of the National Front. "All this is full of excess, this is so worthless to the bottom," says Henri Guaino, for whom "there are no facts," as Frederic Mitterrand has been writing a book.

Other support to the Minister of Culture, one of Brice Hortefeux, who said he was not aware that this book existed and questioned the facts in writing. He said, "is a subject that has gone very quickly. As is very rapid, precise, we must be wary of judgments to the punch and guilt pre-announced. And the interior minister added: "I do not know Frederic Mitterrand before joining the government, I note today that, as Minister of Culture, it was unanimously welcomed, recognized, respected by all his competence ".

Several other politicians have a different opinion. This is the case of Xavier Darcos. Labor Minister considers it necessary that his colleague "say things (...) he must respond other than by indignation. He will do well. " Asked about the views that could be Nicolas Sarkozy this case, Xavier Darcos said that "the President will meet with me that this is not the minister who is involved but the privacy of a man." "On this subject, only that man can answer."

The Minister of Labor is also back on the genesis of this controversy. "Ever since Frederic Mitterrand joined the government that the National Front and the PS remember what he wrote once," quipped the Minister of Labor. "I am not an expert in the manhunt, I found that there is little drift when I see Marine Le Pen, who does not speak of young men but young boys." Moreover, "there is no judge who runs after him, nobody makes criticizes Frederic Mitterrand on the legal front," said Xavier Darcos.

C├йcile Duflot, leader of the Greens, also believes it must respond Mitterrand. Surprised that "it becomes a controversy as sumptuous now, four years after the publication of the book," the judge responsible environmentalist that "there is a difference between a book and reality" and especially "to ask Frederic Mitterrand . "The situation is not excluded, just to clarify things quietly with him, and he will I think," said Cecile Duflot. But "if this is not the case, do not do amalgam (between pedophilia and homosexuality, Editor's note) because it is a constant danger, which has stigmatized homosexuals for years."

Montebourg demand the sacking of Mitterrand

The position of Manuel Valls, like most socialist leaders is harder. He said "we can always distinguish between the human, intellectual and fantasy, but when we read his words, they are definitely shocking." "These are messages that I consider too unbearable, we can not be indignant with the glorification of sexual exploitation," says the deputy mayor of Evry. According to him, "Now he belongs to Frederic Mitterrand, because he is a minister of the Republic, because there is controversy on a sensitive topic for the French, to explain." Then, "it is for the president and prime minister to decide what should be the fate and future of Frederic Mitterand.

More radical still, Jean-Paul Huchon, President PS Regional Council of Ile-de-France, said it was "difficult to maintain the government a person who was guilty of outright facts that the government pursues." It raises the vexed question: "Is it reasonable to have a minister who brags about having sex tourism? I think it is a larger question that politics is an ethical issue. "

Puzzle Arnaud Montebourg identical to that judge, after reading the controversial book, "it seems impossible that the Prime Minister and the President may, having become aware of the apology as an admission by the interested in sexual practices condemned and constituting a criminal offense, under the terms according to the author of 'trade' sex 'kids who do not derive only crumbs', according maintain a minister who acted willfully in violation of national laws and international.

A dissenting voice was raised in the Socialist ranks, that of Bertrand Delano├л. The mayor of Paris said on his blog that "Frederic Mitterrand issued a courageous book." "It is poignant words to say" always guilt, shame .... Far from condoning sex tourism, describing instead the impasse is any relationship priced, glancing over his own relentless path. "Let everyone read - or reread - this book before the author nailed to the pillory, and funnels - voluntarily or not - in the manipulation orchestrated by the National Front."

For the UMP, the PS is on the same line as the FN

The voice of the mayor of Paris is lonely at the PS. Wednesday already, Beno├оt Hamon had, first, says "shocked" by the writings of Frederic Mitterrand, while MP Patrick Bloche spoke of writing "unbearable". Martine Aubry, her preferred caution, ensuring he had not read the book and providing "not imagine" that the minister is engaged in "an apology for sex tourism."

Pierre Moscovici, MP PS Doubs, is the guest of Talk Orange-Le Figaro on Thursday. It calls for "a little restraint." "I do not want it falling into the political trash," says he, while recognizing that "Frederic Mitterand writes in his book is not a model. But, insists he, "we will not demand the resignation of a minister for a sex scandal."

Other more favorable reaction to the minister left, that of Daniel Cohn-Bendit on the website of the Parisian. If he had criticized the fact that Mitterrand defends Polanski, the Green MEP comes this time to his rescue. "Everybody talks about the book without having read it. I have read, this is obviously not good that's inside is a terrible book. But it is a therapy service is brave of Mitterrand, I respect his approach, "says he. And Cohn-Bendit, himself accused by direct Fran├зois Bayrou of pedophilia in a few days the European elections last June, to estimate "unacceptable" response to Beno├оt Hamon. "The Socialists are ready to tap Sarkozy on anything and everything. If, tomorrow, FN said 'Sarkozy has an immigration policy too low', they will follow? ".

Following the statements of Benedict Hamon, Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand denounced the vicinity of PS with the FN, saying "shame to think that elected officials left to go join the National Front." An argument echoed by Xavier Bertrand, who explained that "use of the privacy of individuals to make political attacks or politicians," he recalled "the worst hours of the story" On the National Front, he admits he orchestrated the controversy following the Polanski case and support the controversial minister to the director, and asked



Google Home - About Google Translate Beta

Was that a "French to Bottoms Uplish" translation?

[catawampuscat]

francois, please come home :love4: and help out with the French.. I have come out of retirement once or
twice on forums and only those without lives bother keeping track of abdications..

Writing a book about one's experience with commercial venues--can't see anything good coming from that.

What this does show is the abuse of language by homophobes and extreme christians. As with girl, boy does not always mean minor or underage. Every thinking person knows that.

It continues because we have a minority vested in hate and ignorance. We should confront the tactic, in my view.

Writing a book about one's experience with commercial venues--can't see anything good coming from that.

What this does show is the abuse of language by homophobes and extreme christians. As with girl, boy does not always mean minor or underage. Every thinking person knows that.

It continues because we have a minority vested in hate and ignorance. We should confront the tactic, in my view.

No, not every thinking person knows that. How old is a girl or a boy?. I think it is different in different cultures.
I would say that normally in Europe it is at least not more than 15-16-17-18 years, I would say less, after that he is a young man.
If I told anyone in my homecountry that I have been together with a boy, everyone would look at me with disgrace. And I am sure you will not use the word boy to anyone yourself, if you are telling about your own adventures.
I would like to know when the thais use the words boy and young man. ?

Who is abusing the language? The homophobes? Yes, but they can use it as they like, because we are not thinking about the words we are using and how we are using them.

When I was in Thailand the first time 15 years ago, I was surprised that it was commen, to talk about a 25 year old guy as a boy. And I still think it is strange, maybe Freud is into that :hello1:
And this has nothing to do about having a BF. You can be 30-30, 40-40, 50-50, 60-60 or 20-60-30 and have a BF or GF.
There is a reason why Boystown changed their name into Boyztown. 'If the history is correct they were not really "asked" to change the name.
Just my 2C.

Poll needed, how many posters in here read French?
Moi ! Moi aussi.

If I told anyone in my homecountry that I have been together with a boy, everyone would look at me with disgrace. And I am sure you will not use the word boy to anyone yourself, if you are telling about your own adventures.

My point exactly. I suspect if you stated you had gone out with a girl no one would assume anything illicit. Change that to boy and the meaning clouds.

I can't speak for Denmark, but in North America anti-gay groups are always claiming gays are after children. We should challenge them every time they fuck with the language: bar boys, go-go boys and other such usage in a gay context does not mean minors.

I suspect we're on the same side here, Hans. I wasn't attempting to speak for all cultures, simply stating that Euro-American usage of boy can and does frequently mean adult male.

Fundamentalists and their ilk like to change meanings of words to support their view. Creation Science [think about it]

It's not just gays that are targeted here. In my opinion it is an "assault on reason."

[giggsy]

:kermit: Je parle anglais la langue de l'i, ne comprennent pas.pas plus grenouille vous remercie. :kermit:

[Art]

The porn industry offers the тА║twinkтА╣, a modern ephebe (18-20). тА║Asian twinksтА╣ are not always blond and blue-eyed.



1. Twink
An attractive, boyish-looking, young gay man. The stereotypical twink is 18-22, slender with little or no body hair, often blonde, dresses in club wear even at 10:00 AM, and is not particularly intelligent. A twink is the gay answer to the blonde bimbo cheerleader. There are two major theories about the origin of this word, both of which probably have elements of truth to them. a) Twink comes from an acronym T.W.I.N.K. "Teenage, White, Into No Kink." b) Twink is a shortening of the name for the famous "TWINKIE" snack cake: a tasty, cream-filled snack with no nutritional value. The phallic shape of the "TWINKIE" snack cake should not escape the reader's attention. I don't like going to that club because it's nothing but a bunch of twinks.
by DocLightning Jun 13, 2004

3. Twink
A term often used in homosexual circles to describe a man with a smooth, youthful, only slightly-muscular, physique.
by Sooper! Jun 9, 2002

4. Twink
A smooth-bodied, almost pre-pubescent looking young gay male. From "twinkie" (as in Hostess twinkie)- soft and full of cream.
That twink is young, dumb and full of cum...and I want him NOW! by mike May 22, 2003

5. Twink
A term often used to describe a youthful homosexual male, who is smooth-bodied, only slightly-muscular, with little or no body hair, and has a semi-athletic build. Often also being na├пve, and cute, with nothing upstairs. The gay equivalent of the mainstream `chick'. That twink is so hot he gave me a bonner. i wanna lick his smooth body, and make him cum. by Khalid Jun 9, 2004

6. Twink
A twink is simply a young (18-24)or so year old , smooth, thin or in shape male, and normally very attractive. Its the gay communities equivalent of babe or chick. Negative interpretations describing twinks are normal associated with the same type of males that are in the heterosexually community, that describe attractive young in shape women as stupid, sluts, bimbos, air heads, ECT. to help make up for there own insecurities. There was a lot of hot twinks at the club last night.
by twinkguy Sep 20, 2005

7. Twink
A twink is young attractive gay man often and usually blond. A typical twink has a slender, slightly muscular build with little or no body hair. Twink is often referred to as having a "swimmer's build. The age range for a twink is 14-25. Twinks are known for looks and not intellect. They are usually the bottoms during gay sex. Sometimes they are femme, but don't have to be. Originally the term referred principally to blonds, but among gay people the term increasingly includes other young men whose features are those principally described above, but are not necessarily blond. Although the architypical twink is infact a blond.The origin of the term is unknown but might be an allusion to the Twinkie pastry, which is golden (blond) on the outside with cream on the inside, and is pleasantly sweet but with little nutritional substance. by Zerstian Sep 8, 2006

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=twink
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89ph%C3%A8be

If I told anyone in my homecountry that I have been together with a boy, everyone would look at me with disgrace. And I am sure you will not use the word boy to anyone yourself, if you are telling about your own adventures.

My point exactly. I suspect if you stated you had gone out with a girl no one would assume anything illicit. Change that to boy and the meaning clouds.

I can't speak for Denmark, but in North America anti-gay groups are always claiming gays are after children. We should challenge them every time they fuck with the language: bar boys, go-go boys and other such usage in a gay context does not mean minors.

I suspect we're on the same side here, Hans. I wasn't attempting to speak for all cultures, simply stating that Euro-American usage of boy can and does frequently mean adult male.

Fundamentalists and their ilk like to change meanings of words to support their view. Creation Science [think about it]

It's not just gays that are targeted here. In my opinion it is an "assault on reason."

We are on the same side, but I do not agree that the word boy, can mean a adult male, in english language. Maybe we are so much in love with Thailand and the "boys", that we forget what a boy is in US-Europe and what it is in Thailand. I think many misunderstandings is about that word. People in Western Countries, never been to Thailand would never understand.

[Lunchtime O'Booze]

(lecture ends here)

[Ron-Heng Vancouver]

What is so troubling :glasses7: in Canada is that the laws define a child as anyone under the age of 18 or one "who appears" to be under the age of 18...... so many could be charged with child sex or child porn if one even "appears", so what should one do? Date the elderly. Especially Asian men look so young for many years.

Also, my 'boy' friend and I (he's 37) never did like the word "boy" or people asking "how are you boys" or "how is your boy?" This infuriates my partner who is Thai, by the way. He thought this even as a 24 yr old man. He says, "we are men, not boys...:" and it angers him when gay men speak about the partners, et al as "boys" and he considers it derragotory and disrespectful as do I.

"?The Men of Vancouver"
:sex:

et moi aussi .... which is why I noted that he referred specifically to "jeunes gar├зons tr├иs attrayants" - young attractive boys. While "boys" can have many meanings, young boys is rather more specific.

It just goes to show that Thailand is far from the only country where some connections and some money can keep you out of all sorts of trouble.

[Brad the Impala]

et moi aussi .... which is why I noted that he referred specifically to "jeunes gar├зons tr├иs attrayants" - young attractive boys. While "boys" can have many meanings, young boys is rather more specific.

How astute you are, Monsieur Poirot! However given that the linked article provided the translation as "young boys" in it's first paragraph, it is neither as illuminating or as prescient a comment as you appear to believe. No change there then.




It just goes to show that Thailand is far from the only country where some connections and some money can keep you out of all sorts of trouble.

A curious conclusion given that the point of the news coverage is the trouble that Mitterand's statement IS causing him, now that his statement has received wider publicity than it did when his book was originally published. Too much opium Mr Holmes?

How astute you are, Monsieur Poirot!
And how astute you aren't. You and those others who have referred to and made much of the use of the word "boys" have entirely (deliberately?) overlooked this point in order to fabricate one of your own which has no basis in this context.


It just goes to show that Thailand is far from the only country where some connections and some money can keep you out of all sorts of trouble.


A curious conclusion .....
Hardly curious - just a conclusion you would prefer not to see as it does not match your agenda. The "statement" was published in his book 4 years ago; the "publicity" was the result of his recent statement condemning the arrest of Roman Polanski for raping and sodomising a 13 year old girl in 1978 after drugging her (an offence he pled guilty to).

Roman Polanski has lived in France since leaving the USA after he was found guilty but before he was sentenced, but he has openly visited a number of countries where he could have been arrested and extradited to the USA to be sentenced in the last 30 years, and where his movements were well known in advance; until now, no attempt to do so was made, however the publicity over his visit to Geneva for a lifetime achievment award was obviously too much to be ignored. Miterrand's statements are clearly not causing him any trouble politically or personally - on the contrary he appears to be enjoying the publicity. In both cases, which are clearly linked to anyone who keeps abreast of the news, my conclusion is a reasonable one - even if you prefer not to see it, just because it is mine.

Grow up Brad.

[PeterUK]

I had a grudging respect for the Gallic gall of M. Mitterrand in writing about his experiences in the boy brothels of Thailand and then taking the job of Culture Minister, but I see in today's Bangkok Post that in an 'emotional and angry' TV interview he has said that, while he did indeed pay for sex, it was with 'men of my own age', including a '40-year-old boxer'. So it looks like he's been reduced to the usual politician's game of trying to cover his sorry arse. He was paying middle-aged men for sex?? I wonder which thriving Thailand 'boy' bar specialises in this service!

So it looks like he's been reduced to the usual politician's game of trying to cover his sorry arse.

Metaphorically speaking, of course ...and I suppose angry and emotional is better than George Brown's "tired and emotional"!

[Brad the Impala]

Gone Phishing, thank you for rewriting the news that has been available in the BBC news story, and also from every other news organ! Repeating it definitely makes you as "abreast of the news" as everyone else. Well done!

Despite the French belief that politicians are entitled to keep their private life private, and that artists are entitled to some additional license, I would guess that after a suitable period, to show that they are not just bowing to public and foreign government opinion, a new Minister of Culture will be needed.

Of course in Britain or the States Mitterand would have already departed, if he indeed he could have ever been appointed!

[Art]

Wikipedia

[Fr├йd├йric] Mitterrand's autobiographical novel The Bad Life (French: La mauvaise vie) was a best seller in 2005. In the book he details his "delight" whilst visiting the male brothels of Bangkok, and writes, "I got into the habit of paying for boys ... The profusion of young, very attractive and immediately available boys put me in a state of desire I no longer needed to restrain or hide." At the time of its release Mitterrand was applauded for his honesty, but he has had to defend his writings after he publicly defended Roman Polanski when Polanski was detained in Switzerland on an American request for extradition for having sex with a thirteen year old girl.

On October 5, 2009 Marine Le Pen of the French National Front Party quoted sections of the book on French television, accusing him of having sex with underage boys and engaging in "sex tourism", demanding that Mitterrand resign his position as culture minister. Amongst others he was also criticised by the Socialist Party spokesman Beno├оt Hamon, who stated: тАЬAs a minister of culture he has drawn attention to himself by defending a film maker and he has written a book where he said he took advantage of sexual tourism. To say the least, I find it shocking.тАЭ On the other hand, some conservatives supported Mitterrand, and a close aide to Nicolas Sarkozy said the French President backed his Culture Minister, describing the controversy around him as "pathetic."

Mitterrand also insists the book isn't an autobiography, the publisher describes it as a "novel inspired by autobiography" and the BBC refers to it as "autobiographical novel". In his own defence Mitterand stated, "Each time I was with people who were my age, or who were five years younger тАУ there wasn't the slightest ambiguity тАУ and who were consenting," and that he uses the term "boys" loosely, both in his life and in the book. He also declared, "I condemn sexual tourism, which is a disgrace. I condemn paedophilia, which I have never in any way participated in."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d% ... Mitterrand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Mitterrand)
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d% ... Mitterrand (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Mitterrand)




Sex workers speak out about France Culture Minister Controversy

October 27, 2009 by apnswdollhouse

Khun Chutchai, Asia Pacific Network of Sex Workers (APNSW), Bangkok, Thailand.

It has come to our attention that their is still continuing debate around the issue of the French Culture Minister, Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand, and his admission that he paid for sex with male sex workers in Thailand. We have seen attacks on him from both the left and the right of French politics- attacks which we see as both homophobic and anti-sex worker.

Worse we see the racist, orientalist views of the elites on both sides of French politics who construct Thai sex workers as somehow тАЬbackwardтАЭ and unable to choose what we do. In Thailand all male sex workers are referred to by the term тАЬNongтАЭ which means boy. We are not duped under age boys forced into тАЬsexual slavery.тАЭ We are people in a poor country exercising our choices to live and earn money to support ourselves, our family and our country.

The money we earn and send home to the rural areas of Thailand is far larger than any international development programme and supports far more people. Tourism to Thailand is our countryтАЩs second biggest industry- and people have sex on holidays. Are they meant to be celibate? Is it now unacceptable for Europeans to have sex with Asians in case they are exploiting us? If French politicians are so concerned about our exploitation they would do better to support labour laws for sex workers and to push the ILO to recognise sex work as work.

When and until the parties of the Left and the Right of French politics agree to substantially increase development aid to redistribute the wealth that France and other former colonial countries stole from the developing world, we would appreciate it if you keep sending us your tourists so that we can show them a good time and get some of your hard won cash.


Le STRASS, Syndicat du TRAvail Sexuel fran├зais (http://site.strass-syndicat.org) a demand├й ├а ses coll├иgues de Tha├пlande ce quтАЩils pensaient de cette affaire. Voici leur r├йponse:

Khun Chutchai, R├йseau Asie-Pacifique des travailleurs du sexe, Bangkok, Tha├пlande.

Il a ├йt├й port├й ├а notre attention quтАЩil y a toujours un d├йbat en cours autour de la question du ministre fran├зais de la Culture, Fr├йd├йric Mitterrand, et son aveu dтАЩavoir pay├й pour des rapports sexuels avec des professionnels du sexe en Tha├пlande. Nous avons vu ces attaques contre lui provenant ├а la fois de la gauche et de la droite de la politique fran├зaise - attaques que nous voyons ├а la fois comme homophobes et anti-travailleurs du sexe.

Pire encore, nous les voyons comme racistes, une vision orientaliste des ├йlites des deux c├┤t├йs de la politique fran├зaise qui construisent une representation des travailleurs du sexe tha├пs, en quelque sorte ┬лen position de passivite┬╗ et incapable de choisir ce que nous faisons. En Tha├пlande, tous les travailleurs de sexe masculins sont d├йsign├йs par le terme ┬лNong┬╗, qui signifie gar├зon. Nous ne sommes pas des gar├зons forces en dessous de lтАЩage legal contraints ├а ┬лlтАЩesclavage sexuel┬╗. Nous sommes des gens dans un pays pauvre qui exercons notre choix de vivre et de gagner de lтАЩargent pour nous memes et soutenir, notre famille et notre pays.

LтАЩargent que nous gagnons et que nous envoyons chez nous dans les zones rurales de la Tha├пlande est beaucoup plus important que tout programme de d├йveloppement international et soutient beaucoup plus de personnes. Le tourisme en Tha├пlande est la deuxi├иme industrie de notre pays et les gens ont des rapports sexuels pendant les vacances. Sont-ils cens├йs rester c├йlibataires? Est-il aujourdтАЩhui inacceptable pour les Europ├йens dтАЩavoir des rapports sexuels avec des Asiatiques au cas o├╣ ils nous exploiteraient? Si les politiciens fran├зais sont si pr├йoccup├йs par notre exploitation, ils feraient mieux de soutenir des lois protegeant le travail des travailleurs du sexe et de pousser lтАЩOIT ├а reconna├оtre le travail du sexe comme un travail.

Tant que et jusquтАЩ├а ce que les partis de la gauche et la droite de la politique fran├зaise acceptent dтАЩaugmenter substantiellement lтАЩaide au d├йveloppement pour redistribuer les richesses que la France et dтАЩautres anciens pays coloniaux ont vol├й au monde en d├йveloppement, nous serions reconnaissants si vous continuez ├а nous envoyer vos touristes, afin que nous puissions leur montrer ce quтАЩest passer du bon temps et obtenir une partie de votre argent durement acquis.

Source: http://apnswdollhouse.wordpress.com/2009/10/27/sex-workers-speak-out-about-france-culture-minister-controversy/ (http://www.apnsw.org)




Fr├йd├йric Mitterand: La mauvaise vie. Paris: Laffont 2005.

Maintenant, je sais a peu pr├иs ├а quoi m'en tenir. C'est une attraction t├йn├йbreuse, incompr├йhensible, mais elle ne me l├вche pas; une sorte de jeu aussi qui rend heureux et triste. Je pense qu'il y a certainement d'autres gardons comme moi mais je n'ai pas eu beaucoup de chance puisque je ne les ai pas rencontr├йs; je sais plus ou moins o├╣ ├зa me m├иnera, mais j'ai encore du mal a imaginer les d├йtails. C'est curieux, mes fr├иres n'en parlent pas devant moi. Enfin, quelquefois quand m├кme et alors sur un ton de plaisanterie l├йg├иre qui me donne l'impression d'├кtre moins seul; mais je saisis au vol ce que disent leurs copains, les plus grands en g├йn├йral, quand ils abordent le sujet ; ils sont alors pleins de m├йpris, d'insultes, de moqueries. D'ailleurs, prudemment, quand on me cherche, je hurle avec les loups. Il faut donc que je garde le secret, que je ne le confie a personne, absolument personne, jusqu'au jour o├╣ je pourrai le partager avec celui qui l'aura ├йgalement gard├й. Le glissement vers la clandestinit├й, l'├йt├вt d'alerte permanente s'amorcent mais je ne m'en rends pas bien compte. Br├иve p├йriode dans l'┼Уil du cyclone o├╣ je ne ressens toujours pas de honte ni de crainte particuli├иre; pas encore, cela viendra bient├┤t, r├йtribution au centuple. Au fond, je ne crois pas que ce soit irr├йm├йdiable. Au lyc├йe Janson il y a aussi des filles, je me plais en leur compagnie, elles m'invitent, on se passe des petits mots, je m'invente des amourettes et je me persuade que ├зa marchera tr├иs bien; je suis un peu moins s├╗r de moi, il est vrai, quand elles me pr├йsentent leurs fr├иres. Enfin tout bouge, rien n'est fixe, je changerai peut-├кtre comme mon corps d'enfant qui grandit et se transforme trop lentement ├а mon go├╗t. Allez, tout ira bien, le principal souci dans la vie c'est de ne pas se faire coller un z├йro en maths par Mme Martin, une autre m├йchante femme aux traits d├йlicats.

http://www.culture.gouv.fr/mcc/Actualites/A-la-une/Frederic-Mitterrand

[kittyboy]

I have stated this view previously. All relationships have an element of power dynamics, who has power, where is it used, how and why is it used?

If you look at the American South prior to the modern civil rights era Black men were often summoned, described and generally called Boy as a way of estalishing and maintianing the social order..whites on top black on the bottom. Whites had power and blacks did not.

Look at the language in business settings prior to the womens liberation movement...women were often in subservient roles of secretary or administrative staff and even older women were collectively referred to as the girls. Men had power women did not.

I suspect that one reason (not just the age difference) that gay farang in thailand commonly refer to thai guys as boys is the farang have money, status and therefore power.

I am sure certain posters will take offense and gnash teeth and defend their own relationships as being built on trust and that my comments are cynical and BS...Get away from you own specific example and look at this in general terms. In general who has power in farang thai relationships? Do not wallow in the specifics of you own situation...sorry boring.

[Beachlover]

That's a valid point... But you write in such an academic way... starting with all the background details before presenting the key point you're trying to make.

Start by getting straight to the main point (like journalists do). The background details, supporting stories and such can come later.

I have a client who's been with me since I started as a one-man band. He still refers to me as, "boy"... saying things like, "you're a busy boy"... and such.

I usually get pissed off if someone does this kind of thing in a very "I look down on you" way but he's a nice guy I respect and great to deal with.

[kittyboy]

That's a valid point... But you write in such an academic way... starting with all the background details before presenting the key point you're trying to make.

Start by getting straight to the main point (like journalists do). The background details, supporting stories and such can come later.

I have a client who's been with me since I started as a one-man band. He still refers to me as, "boy"... saying things like, "you're a busy boy"... and such.

I usually get pissed off if someone does this kind of thing in a very "I look down on you" way but he's a nice guy I respect and great to deal with.


My writing betrays my background...I am an academic and write like one...Anytime you want to sex up my writing go ahead...

I also believe that people should use facts and analysis to make decisions. That does not seem to be the case as my observation is that most people don't want to have the facts get in the way of their hysteria.

It will take some time to civilize the boys (some of the posters on this board) and teach them how to think.

As for the french minister...maybe he was using the term boy dismissively as in he paid a boy for sex - boy being a reference to the persons social status relative to the minister's. Then again he could be a pedo and he was fucking a ----...well fill in the blank.

[Beachlover]

Hehe... don't worry, it's not a witch hunt for academics.

I agree about using facts and analysis first. But speculation and emotions still play a valid role in most life situations.

I think the thing to take away the word, "boy" is frequently used to refer to guys over the age of 18 as well as under. And this could be even more the case in Asia. Unfortunately, when the wider population in your country isn't aware of this and you announce you had sex with boys, you're going to be in the sh*t.

[kittyboy]

Hehe... don't worry, it's not a witch hunt for academics.

I agree about using facts and analysis first. But speculation and emotions still play a valid role in most life situations.

I think the thing to take away the word, "boy" is frequently used to refer to guys over the age of 18 as well as under. And this could be even more the case in Asia. Unfortunately, when the wider population in your country isn't aware of this and you announce you had sex with boys, you're going to be in the sh*t.

Maybe the french minister should have described himself as a sex tourist who was fucking the man whores of thailand. Clearly a more accurate description.

[Beachlover]

Well that sounds more flattering lol.

I think the issue was "perception" rather than "accuracy".