Thai cost of living in Pattaya [Archive] - Sawatdee Gay Thailand the oldest and most popular gay forum on Thailand and South East Asia

colmx

September 19th, 2009, 08:29

Many people here will know better than I do, so I'm curious, what's the monthly cost of living for a young 20-something Thai in Pattaya. And a decent life, not one where he's just barely scraping by. Here's what I figure:

Rent + Utilities = 4800 (shared by say 2-3 people, so go high and say even 2500).
Food = 2500
Clothes and stupid shit = 3000
Misc (haircuts, baht bus, baby powder with hopes of making their skin white, etc.) = 1500
Extras (new pots & pans, fan, etc.) = 2000
Cell Phone = 500
Helping Family = 3000
Having Fun = 6000
Other shit that comes up / I haven't considered = 5000

TOTAL: 26,000

Is that about right, or am I off base here?
For sponsoring a moneyboy - I think you are about right...
Living in pattaya is not cheap... unless the boy is expected to live like a hermit and certain standards of "appearance" need to be kept

Guys who are "made" ie. Have met a farang (or sponsor) don't share apartments
Or at least if they do - they don't share the rent... so i think you need to up your rent estimate
On the other hand you can reduce your extras budget to prob 500PM

6000 per month for having fun won't go very far... if they go out with their friends and split the bill say 4 ways, thats 500B each
2 nights out a week would be 4000B per month
A trip to the cinema is 110-130B, but the would be expected to pay for their friend (as they have a sponsor) so that can be expensive too. 2 tripsa week would be 1600B per month
Same same with bowling

That doesn't allow for any midweek nights out for parties, special occasions,etc
so I guess that what the contingency 5000B covers

Some might say that you are being over generous... i reckon your estimates are about right(as long as you can afford it!)

Of course a non-moneyboy or Bkk student is a different matter

cdnmatt

September 19th, 2009, 10:37

Guys who are "made" ie. Have met a farang (or sponsor) don't share apartments
Or at least if they do - they don't share the rent... so i think you need to up your rent estimate

Ahhh, thanks. I was pretty certain that's how it worked, but thanks for confirming it for me. That one actually pisses me off a little, and will definitely be changing once I get back to Thailand in a week or two. I have no problem taking good care of my guy, but I'm not willing to support his roommate too, especially considering he's a complete dumb ass.

Beachlover

September 19th, 2009, 10:44

cdnmatt

September 19th, 2009, 11:45

How close is your relationship with this boy? Why not have him move in with you?

Only been together for about 8 weeks, so we're by no means hitched, but I can honestly say I genuinely care about him more than any other Thai boy I've ever met. We semi-lived together. I wanted him to do whatever was most comfortable for him, so gave him a key to my apartment, and he would come and go as he wanted, while keeping his other room. I figured that was better than simply saying, "You live with me now!".

The irritating thing for me is that he's slowly turning into a typical money boy. When I first met him, he was new to Pattaya, sincere, honest, open, and just an all around amazing guy. It was great, and very refreshing. Two months later though, after he's been spoon fed a bunch of bullshit from his roommate and "friends", I've slowly watched him transform into a typical money boy, which is somewhat pissing me off.

And it especially pisses me off because he's new, and I know full well his "friends" are taking advantage of him, which means I'm getting taken for a ride as well. I know his friends convince him that they should all goto karoke for a night, and he ends up paying for everything, which obviously is out of my pocket. I'm in Malaysia and Singapore for the next couple weeks, but all that's coming to an end once I get back.

I'll take care of it though. It means we can't live in Pattaya, but that's ok. I don't like Pattaya, and he constantly says he doesn't like it, although I know he's been turned on by the city life now, so doesn't want the rural life anymore. I'm thinking Hua Hin, Chiang Mai, or maybe even Khon Kaen. Definitely not Pattaya though, and I could be wrong, but I bet there's a 90% chance he'll follow me wherever I go.

Time will tell. :-)

Koh Samui Luv

September 19th, 2009, 13:11

Time will tell. :-)

Indeed!

September 19th, 2009, 15:59

cdnmatt your such a classic. HuaHIn means you can keep smiles company. :sign5:

Beachlover

September 19th, 2009, 21:16

- Yeah, that makes sense if you've only been together 8 weeks.

- I think taking him out of Pattaya soon is a good idea... and probably the only solution with a high chance of success. You are lucky that he hasn't been there so long that he feels at home there and doesn't want to leave. The thing with his "friends" getting him in the habits of a moneyboy is ugly...

- I felt something slightly disturbing about Pattaya when I was there... nice place to have fun though. Have you considered Bangkok? This would satisfy his "big city" needs. Might be a bit "overstimulating" for a village boy though. Chiang Mai is nice... might be a little quiet though. I think Hua Hin is a little too small and quiet... seemed almost depressing in a way when I was there.Have you considered Phuket? Really beautiful... nice pleasant/livable place. Downside is it seems more expensive and it's a bit more touristy. But really really beautiful.

- I think Thai boys are like this... the one who is doing well is expected to take their friends out for dinner/karaoke etc. His social standing rises because of this so in my opinion it should be accepted but only to a certain extent...

- Maybe you might want to communicate to him some thoughts about his friends... that there are "real" friends and friends who only want to take advantage of his money etc. Having said that... social acceptance/popularity with others like himself (own kind) is probably quite important to him... especially being a teen and all.

- How are you building a relationship with him when his English is so poor? Has he learned better English?

- Have you read "How I met my boyfriend" and "Bangkok Novel" at www.gayboythailand.com (http://www.gayboythailand.com)? Reading these is a real education if you are going to live or spend time in Thailand... The boyfriend novel is a true story... the "Bangkok Novel" is a hilarious collection of incidents.

Great that you've found someone you really care about... I think you need to get him out of Pattaya (and away from his seasoned, money grabbing company) as soon as possible. They are probably feeding him all sorts of things - "you are worth more".... "farang should give you more".... "you should ask for this/that"... - with him under the illusion that they are on his side and advising him in his own best interest.

September 20th, 2009, 01:04

I have no problem taking good care of my guy, but I'm not willing to support his roommate too, especially considering he's a complete dumb ass. ......Two months later though, after he's been spoon fed a bunch of bullshit from his roommate and "friends", I've slowly watched him transform into a typical money boy, which is somewhat pissing me off. ..... all that's coming to an end once I get back. ..... I could be wrong, but I bet there's a 90% chance he'll follow me wherever I go.

And none of this is your fault?

Wake up to reality. You've given him far more money than you had to in order to buy his affection, and he has spent the minimum amount of time alone with you that he could. Now you want to change the rules, get him to kick out his roommate, ditch his friends, spend his money how you want, and then go with you to somewhere neither of you has ever been, where he has no friends, and to live with someone he can barely communiate with? And you expect him to be happy with that?

Are you really that stupid?

It is quite possible he will go elsewhere with you, but if he does it will simply prove just how much of a "money boy" you have turned him into.

- I think Thai boys are like this... the one who is doing well is expected to take their friends out for dinner/karaoke etc.

No, BL, all Thais are like this - if you have the money you pay and you are happy to do so. While that may mean the farang pays where many here are concerned, most of the time, that is far from the whole story. Whilst not rich I am not exactly on the breadline, and I have been taken on holiday, had my hotel bills paid (single room for me - a "family" holiday!), etc, on more than one occasion and to have even suggested that I pay my share would have been the height of bad manners.

The idea of "going Dutch" when you go out, or "American share" as the Thais refer to it, is a relatively new one for Thais and is very much a Western pracice.

I have lived in Pattaya 10 years now and think I have the pulse of this subject

Why? Are you "a young 20-something Thai in Pattaya" who knows "the monthly cost of living ... and a decent life", which was the actual subject, or are you talking about how much you should pay to a long term off, which is what this thread is really about?

cdnmatt

September 20th, 2009, 05:15

I think Thai boys are like this... the one who is doing well is expected to take their friends out for dinner/karaoke etc. His social standing rises because of this so in my opinion it should be accepted but only to a certain extent...

Oh yeah, definitely. I completely understand, and am totally fine with that, but it's already crossed the line. It's no longer him treating his friends out to a good night, but they're simply taking advantage of him, because he's new and they know he won't say no. I know it, he knows it, and I know he doesn't like it either, but what's he supposed to do? Tell his friends to get fucked? Obviously, he can't do that, and can't be expected to. Although he doesn't particularly seem to like his friends much, he's got a great standing with him. He's not about to jepordize that, and I don't blame him.

How are you building a relationship with him when his English is so poor? Has he learned better English?

Aye, that's actually the largest obstacle of leaving Pattaya. In Pattaya, we both know lots of people, so there's naturally translators around almost 24x7, and that's how he communicate. Then we know each other well enough now so when we are alone, it's totally fine, and we're both totally comfortable. Although I know it's delusional, my big plan is once I'm back in Thailand in a week or two, I'll immediately grab myself a Thai tutor, and if he wants, an English tutor or put him in English language school. Although delusional, I figure after a month of hard study, we'll know enough of the basics to begin teach each other our respective languages on our own. Obviously, I'll end up learning Thai more than he learns English since we're in Thailand. Who knows, maybe it is possible. It not, we find friends who can act as translators until I speak enough Thai to get by.

Wake up to reality. You've given him far more money than you had to in order to buy his affection, and he has spent the minimum amount of time alone with you that he could. Now you want to change the rules, get him to kick out his roommate, ditch his friends, spend his money how you want, and then go with you to somewhere neither of you has ever been, where he has no friends, and to live with someone he can barely communiate with? And you expect him to be happy with that?

Although you're totally off base with various things you said, yes, I expect him to be happy with that.

- He doesn't like Pattaya, doesn't like his "friends", and definitely doesn't like his roommate (who would? the guy is a total moron). However, he finds life in Pattaya more preferable to living in his home village in Isaan with his mom and step-dad. Doesn't mean he likes Pattaya, but just making the best of things.

- Who says he spends the minimum amount of time with me he can? I wouldn't say 3 - 20 hours every single day is minimal. And that's on his own accord, not mine. He had a key to the apartment, so would just show up whenever he wanted, which was quite often.

- He's told me probably 300 times he doesn't like Pattaya, and has said a good dozen times he'll go wherever I go. He doesn't care. He just wants to be with me, wants to be taken care of, and wants to have friends. Pretty simple requirements, if you ask me.

- He's said many times he wishes he could have finished high-school, and would like the opportunity to go back.

- He's lost in life right now. He doesn't want the poverty stricken lifestyle that his home provides, and he doesn't want to be a working boy in Pattaya, so he's not sure what the hell he's supposed to do. That's where I come in.

- No reason I can't move to say Chiang Mai, have him come along if he wants, and get him enrolled into school. Within 2 or 3 weeks of school he should have some good friends that he can have fun and party with. And at least these friends will be pupils who are making something of themselves, instead of dumb ass money boys. Like the old saying goes, you're only as strong as the people you're surrounded by. I don't see how that's unrealistic, and I definitely don't see how he'd be unhappy with such an arrangement. I can guarantee you, he does NOT want to be a working boy, but I think he would do so again if he was forced to.

It is quite possible he will go elsewhere with you, but if he does it will simply prove just how much of a "money boy" you have turned him into.

Who knows, maybe you're right, but also, maybe you're wrong. Maybe I'm delusional, but I do genuinely believe he wants to make something of himself, and is willing to work for it. That opportunity isn't available to him on his own though, and that's where I come in. Again, and although maybe I'm wrong, I don't believe he's just a typical money boy. He just wants a good life like everyone else on this planet, and I believe he's willing to work for it. He definitely has the mind and energy to do so, but whether or not he applies it is up to him. Time will tell. :-)

Hmmm

September 20th, 2009, 11:17

TOTAL: 26,000

Is that about right, or am I off base here?

The following salary figures are a few years out of date, but interesting to see who earns that sort of money in other sectors of the economy:
http://www.worldsalaries.org/thailand.shtml

I know that young, degree-qualified professionals are quite lucky to reach that sort of salary level these days. While still at university, many get by on around a quarter of that, depending on if they share a room, and often go out.

As others here have pointed out, give a guy that much and you're actually supporting two or three people, not just one. Cut it by half or more and then maybe you're just supporting him.

If he really wants to continue his education, that sort of money would go a long way (as far from the bright lights of Pattaya as possible). It would pay for him to finish his high school education, pay for a tutor, get him English lessons, then pay for vocational education or university.

September 21st, 2009, 00:16

are you really that stupid?

Thank you for answering the question so clearly. Skip the next couple of paragraphs if you cannot take a dose of reality, but you may learn something from the penultimate one.

.....you're totally off base with various things you said .....

Such as what? Have you already forgotten writing the following:

I don't need or want sex every night,

Right now I've been paying him 3000/baht per night

As for the 3000 baht/night thing being too much, I understand what you guys mean, and I'm sure you're right, but I see it differently. I'm not hurting for cash, and 3000 means nothing to me, whereas to him it's huge. The reason for that is because I'm trying to "wow" him. That's what anyone starting a relationship anywhere in the world does, right? At first you sweep them off their feet, and later on it settles down, right?

I'm hardly a control freak. If anything, I'm the total opposite. I get pissed off when people aren't themselves.

I'll post an update in about 4 weeks letting you know everything is going great. Just watch.

I don't pay HIM $3,000/month, no, but everything included, I'd say it's around there. He makes about 25,000 THB off me a month, or thereabouts I'd say. But then add in riding elephants, going to the island, buying clothes, eating, drinking, etc... yeah, I'd say around 90,000 THB a month. Well, that's probably exaggerating. Say 70,000.

Sometimes he sleeps here, sometimes he doesn't, whatever he feels like that day.

I initially threw so much money at him for a reason, and in hindsight, I'm very glad I did, because it paid off.

Who says he spends the minimum amount of time with me he can?

You! "3 hours a day"? 8 weeks, and he's been home to Khon Kaen (without you) and you're currently in Singapore and Malaysia for a fortnight?

He just wants to be with me, wants to be taken care of, and wants to have friends. Pretty simple requirements, if you ask me.

And you're going to let him have two out of three - generous, but probably not the two he would have preferred.

No reason I can't move to say Chiang Mai, have him come along if he wants, and get him enrolled into school. Within 2 or 3 weeks of school he should have some good friends that he can have fun and party with. And at least these friends will be pupils who are making something of themselves, instead of dumb ass money boys.

None at all - except you do not appear to have done any homework yourself about the future you are planning for him, or have the faintest idea of what you are talking about. Most Thai adult education, which is what he would be enrolled in, is one day a week with exams at the end of the second year (2 years adult education = 3 years normal school). Courses start once a year, he will have missed enrolement for this year, and he will also need to be registered (have house registration papers) in the district where he applies. If he attends more classes privately, on his own, he will still need to enrol in the adult education classes in order to take the exams. If he can barely read Thai, as you previously mentioned, he may in any case need extra tuition before he can even start in the equivalent of year 7 (the minimum for adult education). You may also be surprised just how many students are (or were) "dumb ass money boys".

To get some idea of potential problems, try to find out the details of adult education available in Banglamung yourself and see how readily available it is here. FYI registration for Banglamung District (Ban Amphoe to Laem Chabang) takes place once a year only at Wat Po, Naklua, and the classes are on Sundays only at Djittabhawan College, beyond Naklua.

Like the old saying goes, you're only as strong as the people you're surrounded by. I don't see how that's unrealistic .....

I have not heard that one. If I had I would have put it down as one of the most pathetic, spineless adages I have ever heard. Maybe after you have done some checking you will know if it is unrealistic or not. I thought of saying that I am sorry to sound so cynical, but that would be lying - I think you need to wake up to reality for your own good as well as your friend's.

Beachlover

September 21st, 2009, 18:21

Who says he spends the minimum amount of time with me he can?
You! "3 hours a day"? 8 weeks, and he's been home to Khon Kaen (without you) and you're currently in Singapore and Malaysia for a fortnight?

He said 3-20 hrs per day. What's wrong with that? 3 hours a day is more than most married couples I know spend together on regular days.

I'm sure cdnmatt's a working guy with a life... not a retired dinosaur with nothing better to do than count the hours his BF spends with him.

He just wants to be with me, wants to be taken care of, and wants to have friends. Pretty simple requirements, if you ask me.
And you're going to let him have two out of three - generous, but probably not the two he would have preferred.

Where did he say 2 out of 3? You're so desperate for things to criticise you're making things up now.

None at all - except you do not appear to have done any homework yourself about the future you are planning for him, or have the faintest idea of what you are talking about. Most Thai adult education, which is what he would be enrolled in, is one day a week with exams at the end of the second year (2 years adult education = 3 years normal school). Courses start once a year, he will have missed enrolement for this year, and he will also need to be registered (have house registration papers) in the district where he applies. If he attends more classes privately, on his own, he will still need to enrol in the adult education classes in order to take the exams. If he can barely read Thai, as you previously mentioned, he may in any case need extra tuition before he can even start in the equivalent of year 7 (the minimum for adult education). You may also be surprised just how many students are (or were) "dumb ass money boys".

To get some idea of potential problems, try to find out the details of adult education available in Banglamung yourself and see how readily available it is here. FYI registration for Banglamung District (Ban Amphoe to Laem Chabang) takes place once a year only at Wat Po, Naklua, and the classes are on Sundays only at Djittabhawan College, beyond Naklua.

Well some of this information may be useful. But does it mean what cdnmatt plans to do is completely impossible? Is there no way around these obstacles?

is that all you ever see? "Can't do's"? Impossibles? Limitations?

This contrast is interesting. Cdnmatt is a young entrepreneur who sees possibilities, opportunities, challenges to overcome, potential and seeks out solutions. Positive stuff. Aspirations. Not afraid to make mistakes and admit to them.

Compare this with an old dinasaur who is frightened to admit he's ever been wrong about anything and forever tells people (1) they're wrong, (2) they can't do something because [insert something not true, not absolute or subjective] (3) they're not realistic... or (4) they're stupid and have no idea [words to that effect... or MANY words to that effect]...

I wonder, if you ever met these people would you say these things to their face? You must be a walking nightmare everyone avoids if that's the case.

So here's the thing. What would you do in cdnmatt's shoes? What constructive advice would you offer? What constructive advice have you EVER offered?

Is your intention EVER to offer constructive advice? Or is it purely aimed at putting someone down and making yourself sound superior?

Beachlover

September 21st, 2009, 18:42

How are you building a relationship with him when his English is so poor? Has he learned better English?

Aye, that's actually the largest obstacle of leaving Pattaya. In Pattaya, we both know lots of people, so there's naturally translators around almost 24x7, and that's how he communicate. Then we know each other well enough now so when we are alone, it's totally fine, and we're both totally comfortable. Although I know it's delusional, my big plan is once I'm back in Thailand in a week or two, I'll immediately grab myself a Thai tutor, and if he wants, an English tutor or put him in English language school. Although delusional, I figure after a month of hard study, we'll know enough of the basics to begin teach each other our respective languages on our own. Obviously, I'll end up learning Thai more than he learns English since we're in Thailand. Who knows, maybe it is possible. It not, we find friends who can act as translators until I speak enough Thai to get by.

Ah, I see. Yeah, I'd get hold of those language tutors as soon as possible if this is an issue with leaving Pattaya... something you should probably do ASAP before he gets too attached to the "bad elements" there.

- He's said many times he wishes he could have finished high-school, and would like the opportunity to go back.

- He's lost in life right now. He doesn't want the poverty stricken lifestyle that his home provides, and he doesn't want to be a working boy in Pattaya, so he's not sure what the hell he's supposed to do. That's where I come in.

- No reason I can't move to say Chiang Mai, have him come along if he wants, and get him enrolled into school. Within 2 or 3 weeks of school he should have some good friends that he can have fun and party with. And at least these friends will be pupils who are making something of themselves, instead of dumb ass money boys. Like the old saying goes, you're only as strong as the people you're surrounded by. I don't see how that's unrealistic, and I definitely don't see how he'd be unhappy with such an arrangement. I can guarantee you, he does NOT want to be a working boy, but I think he would do so again if he was forced to.

Sounds like a good plan if you can make it happen... work out all the niggly details.

I reckon you may be in for a rough ride, depending on the personality of the boy. He's 19. I've read Thai boys that age can be pretty unstable (emotions/behaviour/decisions)... like most teenagers really... and this can last until well into their 20s. I think at some stage you'd need to set limitations, which he may naturally test out... in this way, you may end up playing the role of a parent... being that "firm guiding hand".

You might need to decide how committed you are to "bringing up" this boy... I'm sure if it goes well, it'll be rewarding. Good luck!

cdnmatt

September 22nd, 2009, 06:14

You! "3 hours a day"? 8 weeks, and he's been home to Khon Kaen (without you) and you're currently in Singapore and Malaysia for a fortnight?

Ummm, no... I said 3 - 20 hours a day. I don't want to spend every waking moment with him, and I'm sure he feels the same about me. That's kinda how a healthy relationship works, because otherwise, you end up hating each other. Especially with an 8 year age difference, and two different cultures / languages. Don't worry, we spend tons of time together, and again, it's on his accord, not mine.

And you're going to let him have two out of three - generous, but probably not the two he would have preferred.

That's not even worth replying to. If you're implying that I don't want him to have lots of friends and a good life while he parties and has fun, you're an idiot.

None at all - except you do not appear to have done any homework yourself about the future you are planning for him, or have the faintest idea of what you are talking about.

You're right, I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing. Really, I don't. Why do you think I spew so much bullshit on this board? It helps me get my thoughts out and in order. On the flip side, he doesn't particularly seem to know what he's doing either, so I guess we make a good match. :-)

I don't know how the details are all going to settle, but I do know that where there's a will, there's a way, so it's not a huge concern for me. For example, maybe he'll decide he doesn't want to go into academics, and instead, would rather learn how to service boat engines. In that case, we look for a trade school, and if one doesn't exist, we grab the 45yo guy at the mechanics shop who's been working on engines all his life, and offer him a teaching job on the side, with an apprentice to help him around the shop.

Or who knows, the possibilities are limitless, and it's up to him, not me. I'm just here to support him in whatever the hell he decides to do, assuming he wants me to be around. Well, excluding prostitution, as I won't support him in that. I'm sure together we can figure out a better way to use his young mind, intelligence, and energy for something better than drinking whiskey until 7am with a bunch of prostitutes in Pattaya, and something that provides him with a happy, stable life.

Like the old saying goes, you're only as strong as the people you're surrounded by.I have not heard that one. If I had I would have put it down as one of the most pathetic, spineless adages I have ever heard.

What are you talking about? It's one of the most common sense realities of life. The human mind is very powerful, especially when you're younger, and you will naturally conform to your environment. There's a reason us humans are basically the poorest evolving species, but have managed to avoid extinction for so long.

Especially when you're younger, you'll slowly change into the people you're surrounded by. If you surround yourself with prostitutes, unskilled laborers, farmers, highly intelligent and successful businessmen, rednecks, cultured and affluent individuals, or whatever, your persona will slowly change into that type of person, whether you like it or not. It's one of them common sense things that most other people know.

September 23rd, 2009, 02:14

All this previous posting about something as precarious as a relationship. You people make it sound like planning and making right decisions alone will make this farang asking the questions happy. Haven't you all forgotten 99% of the equation? LUCK !

September 23rd, 2009, 03:06

That's kinda how a healthy relationship works

How would you know?? !! :sign5:

If you're implying that I don't want him to have lots of friends and a good life while he parties and has fun, you're an idiot.

Not implying at all. Stating. You made it very clear that you do not approve of how he has chosen his friends, just as you do not approve of how he has chosen to spend his money and that you intend , if you can, only to allow him to have either on your terms.

..... I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing. ... On the flip side, he doesn't particularly seem to know what he's doing either, so I guess we make a good match. :-) ..... it's not a huge concern for me.

Well, if you care about him as much as you say then, in all seriousness and personal differences aside, it sure as hell should be your only concern.

I'm sure together we can figure out a better way to use his young mind, intelligence, and energy for something better than drinking whiskey until 7am with a bunch of prostitutes in Pattaya, and something that provides him with a happy, stable life.

I'm sure you can. At the moment, though, there is precious little "figuring" going on.

Especially when you're younger, you'll slowly change into the people you're surrounded by.

What an absolute load of bollocks and a truly pathetic excuse. If it were true then nobody would ever move out of the rut they were born into without external help.

3 hours a day is more than most married couples I know spend together on regular days.

"Most married couples you know" spend less than 3 hours together out of 24?!! Do you live on an oil rig?

But does it mean what cdnmatt plans to do is completely impossible? Is there no way around these obstacles?

is that all you ever see? "Can't do's"? Impossibles? Limitations?

What "plans"????

What "can't do's" and "impossibles"?? I referred to "potential problems" (obstacles / limitations, if you prefer) that Matt was obviously totally unaware of and had not even considered.

This contrast is interesting. Cdnmatt is a young entrepreneur who ..... seeks out solutions.

What "solutions"??!!

Compare this with an old dinasaur who is frightened to admit he's ever been wrong about anything

Hardly. Apparently I am still comparatively young in comparison to most people posting here and even younger in comparison to those living here. I have also posted at length about my mistakes in my first "relationship" here in a number of threads. In hindsight I could have written about how I could have invested my money more wisely, etc, etc, but I really doubt if that is of too much interest to anyone here!

So here's the thing. What would you do in cdnmatt's shoes? What constructive advice would you offer? What constructive advice have you EVER offered? Is your intention EVER to offer constructive advice? Or is it purely aimed at putting someone down and making yourself sound superior?

I know English is your second language, but I thought I had made it pretty clear what I would "do in cdnmatt's shoes" given his initial idea ("take a dose of reality ....try to find out the details of adult education available ....." do some "homework ..... wake up to reality for your own good as well as your friend's") and for "constructive advice" I told him the "way around these obstacles" for the only "plan" he had mentioned (adult education - enrolement, registration, classes, details, etc). If he wants any more "constructive advice", such as not to waste his or his friend's time as a "gofer" for "the 45yo guy at the mechanics shop who's been working on engines all his life" then he only has to ask.

Apart from figuratively licking his arse the only "constructive advice" you gave him was to "work out all the niggly details". While I am sure your palliatives were far more pleasant, what they were not was "constructive".

As for the rest: you are usually wrong, I have no reason to imagine you are capable of doing anything, you are not realistic, you are stupid and you have no idea, and I would have no problem saying so to your face if I thought it would achieve anything (although I doubt it would). Superior? In comparison to you, the least intelligent of my dogs is superior.

And NOE, I agree luck plays a part, but to misquote Einstein I would rate a successful relationship as 10% luck (meeting the right person) and then 90% working at it together.

September 23rd, 2009, 05:01

I disagree that luck is only 10% of it. What did Einstein know anyway? Wink,wink.
Finding the right person is 90% only luck - then I give you 50% working at it.
Wait a minute! Where is Einstein when I need his math skills?

Brad the Impala

September 23rd, 2009, 06:43

As for the rest: you are usually wrong, I have no reason to imagine you are capable of doing anything, you are not realistic, you are stupid and you have no idea, and I would have no problem saying so to your face if I thought it would achieve anything (although I doubt it would). Superior? In comparison to you, the least intelligent of my dogs is superior.

That's pretty much your view of everyone here isn't it? Your posts certainly give that impression.

September 23rd, 2009, 07:44

Hi Matt,

Getting back to your original post, 10,000 Baht a month is more than enough disposable income for your boyfriend (I'd give him 6000 - 8000 if I were you). As you've demonstrated yourself, anything more is counter-productive.

I'd say he's taking advantage of you culturally (not just financially!) as you are a Farang. It's normal for teenagers to go out binge-drinking all night in the West, so you don't question it, but it's totally unacceptable to most Thais.

3000 Baht a month will buy you a lot of clothes, if you shop where we do!

I would think about moving away from Pattaya quite soon. It's a convenient place for a Westerner to live - cheap Baht buses, cheap, quality apartments, lots of Western food and nightlife. If it stops being convenient for you, then there's no reason to stay - move on!

Most of all, keep enjoying yourselves : )

Looking forward to the next update.

Beachlover

September 23rd, 2009, 08:24

3 hours a day is more than most married couples I know spend together on regular days.

"Most married couples you know" spend less than 3 hours together out of 24?!! Do you live on an oil rig?

I'm talking about 3 waking hours. And none of this proves your assumption, which you stated with such conviction that his boyfriend spends as little time as possible with him.

Beachlover

September 23rd, 2009, 08:27

I had made it pretty clear what I would "do in cdnmatt's shoes" given his initial idea ("[i]take a dose of reality .

Hey cdnmatt... next time you have a big night out, make sure you slam down a big dose of reality and you'll be right. :hello1:

cdnmatt

September 23rd, 2009, 08:50

That's kinda how a healthy relationship works

How would you know?? !! :sign5:

I was married for three years, and my ex will be the first to admit it was mainly his fault the relationship ended. Even to this day, he still apologizes for things going sour between us. I was no saint either, but it was mostly his fault.

Especially when you're younger, you'll slowly change into the people you're surrounded by.

What an absolute load of bollocks and a truly pathetic excuse. If it were true then nobody would ever move out of the rut they were born into without external help.

Take this one guy I somewhat know in Vancouver (ie. I've only met him three times). He's early to mid 30s, worth well over $600 million, and all self made, so has obviously done quite well for himself. One day I was in his board room having a one-on-one meeting with him, so I asked him, "how did you become so successful?". His answer? "I surrounded myself with a bunch of 'grey hairs', and took quite a few risks".

The rest of your post isn't even worth replying to. You're just being a bitter old man who's obviously pissed off at his own failures.

cdnmatt

September 23rd, 2009, 09:27

I would think about moving away from Pattaya quite soon.

Thanks for the post, and aye, and it seems like moving out of Pattaya may have already happened. :-) I'm not sure what the hell is going on. I really need to get my ass back to Thailand.

I gave him a pre-paid ATM card, and completely forgot that I get e-mail notifications everytime it's used, even if it's a declined transaction. It's actually turned out kinda handy, because I can see where he is. :-) I know he was on the first bus out of Pattaya after I left, and I know that because I missed my bloody flight thanks to him, and couldn't see him that day because he was already gone. Then I can tell, he managed to spend four nights in Khon Kaen, two in Pattaya, and the last six he's been in Bangkok. So he obviously doesn't like Pattaya too much, and it wasn't just a lie.

So who knows, maybe next time I see him it'll be meeting at some metro station in Bangkok. Then go to the go-go bars, grab ourselves a translator, and off we go! Here's to hoping! :-)

September 23rd, 2009, 10:10

I'm just here to support him in whatever the hell he decides to do, assuming he wants me to be around. Well, excluding prostitution, as I won't support him in that.

You can take a prostitute out of the bar but you can't take the bar out of the prostitute !!!!

555555555 5555555555 55555555 55555555 :rolling:

rincondog

September 23rd, 2009, 11:39

Training a Thai boy to have the behavior you want is a bit like trying to train a cat, it just doesn't work.

September 24th, 2009, 00:19

You can take a prostitute out of the bar but you can't take the bar out of the prostitute !!!!

An old adage (and at least I am familiar with this one!), but like so many of them not always true. You are assuming that "once a ....., always a ....." applies to everyone. Well, in some cases I would agree but by no means all. As I said elsewhere, its only a job so if its just one of many does that make it the only one that counts?

My partner was a sugar cane cutter (in season) from when he was 9 years old until he was 18, earning 50 satang for every 10 sugar canes cut. He left school at 12 so he could earn enough to take care of his father (his duty traditionally, as the youngest - his mother had died when he was 3 months old); there was no family "house" as that had been sold for 500 baht and they stayed with an elder sister and her husband who had had to move out of the village after he shot one of his relatives when he was drunk. The village is quite poor and comparatively isolated and had, for example, only had water and electricity since he was 10.

His father died when he was 14, after which he continued to work cutting cane in season as well as in a number of other jobs - look out man for a group of illegal loggers, farm labourer, construction labourer on building sites, "gofer" in a small a/c and refrigerator engineering shop, cleaner in a Bangkok "massage" house, waiter at a restaurant in JatuJak weekend market, etc, before starting as a waiter in a restaurant in Bangkok with 700 baht in his pocket on a salary of 2,500 baht a month, less 500 baht for accomodation, food, etc. After a couple of years there another waiter came to Pattaya to find the streets paved with gold and, after 3 months, he asked him to join him which he did.

He was then 21 and took up "massage", which was "just another job" - call it rationalising it to himself, or whatever, but that's simply how he looked at it. To cut a long story relatively short we met "at work" and ended up settling down together. We have a Civil Partnership, have been together for over six years, and by together I mean as far as possible 24/7, 7 days a week, etc, whether its shopping, seeing friends, going to the temple, mixing cement, cutting the grass (basically all the things any "normal" people do) and things could not be better. He never told me he "loved" me until 3 years after we had been living together (in fact he told me that although he "liked" me then, he didn't "love" me until later!).

I trust him totally and he is able to trust me. If it is all only about money, as you and most seem to imagine, he is the most patient (as well as the dumbest!) person I have ever met: everything "I" own is now owned jointly by the two of us, from house, land, cars, and bikes here to Thai and UK /overseas bank accounts which are all operable by single signature, as he is well aware as I have explained it to him in detail. He is also well aware that with the drop in UK interest/exchange rates I am spending "our" capital as well as interest and my pension, so if he intends to maximise his assets he should have done so already - particularly as he would also be entitled to a UK pension, the papers for which I have already completed (less dates and death certificate!).

I don't consider that I have "taken him out of the bar" any more than I have taken him out of any other of his jobs; he still has friends he worked with in the bar, and I see no reason why he shouldn't just as he still has friends who still work as labourers, farm hands, etc. Although he has been out of the bar scene for several years, and neither of us have any interest in Pattaya's nightlife, it is inevitable that he still runs into old farang "friends" occasionally and I see no reason why he should not say "hello" to them too (although that is as far as it goes!). He talks about his time working in Pattaya and always somehow sees the funny side of it, just as he talks about all his previous jobs and his time growing up and somehow sees the funny side of that too; it is all part of what makes him who he is and I see no reason for either of us to be ashamed of any part of it - he certainly made a lot more people happier in his job than I ever did in mine!

Had he not been working in a bar and had the background he has I doubt if we would have met, which is one of the reasons why I have no regrets about anything I did leading up to that; he, on the other hand, has no regrets about anything he did because he believes it was all due to events in a previous life and that we would have met anyway, just under different circumstances. Either way, although his time in the bar obviously played a part in shaping his life, it doesn't mean that it was the only or even a lasting influence.

He and I could not come from more different backgrounds, socially, culturally or professionally, but just as I no longer practice my profession he no longer practices his; it would be simply impossible for either of us to forget the skills we had (although mine are a little rusty) or somehow "delete" the experience, but that does not mean that they still control or dominate our lives for either of us.

Just in case you think he is the exception who proves the rule, the friend of his who asked him to join him in Pattaya has been in Canada with his Canadian partner for nearly three years. The Canadian's business collapsed wth the recession and he has been unemployed for several months, supported totally by his Thai friend working in a mushroom factory.

Ho hum, back to normal .....

.....His answer? "I surrounded myself with a bunch of 'grey hairs', and took quite a few risks".

You really are as stupid as you first appeared. He surrounded himself etc, etc. It was his actions, his decisions - a totally different scenario to the one you refer to.

You obviously still, exactly as in your first thread here, only hear what you want to hear and anyone who is not supportive is condemned as a bitter failure. As I said then, you have yet to grow up yourself and you don't need a b/f, you need a nanny. If it keeps you happy, listen to BL et al - when your "relationship" ends, as it inevitably soon will unless you change your outlook, I am sure he will sympathise and agree with you that it was all your "friend"'s fault.

September 24th, 2009, 02:11

GoneFishing
Well written account and I am happy for you. Me and my Thai partner have you beat however. 9 years together except for some months a year when I go to my country to see family.

Smiles

September 24th, 2009, 10:46

Three long-termers in a row it seems.

One of Gone Fishing's most 'heart' posts (that I recall) and agree very much as my experience with a Thai man ... (For 9 years now also, as above. I made the mistake of saying to him the other day that we'd been together 10 years now ~ as in: " ... ten bloody years now, and I still don't get a kiss and a "good morning honey" when I bloody well wake up!! ... ". Well, how needy am I?! His cold answer to my insecurity was that it was only 9 years!) ... is as close to GF's as it's possible to be putting aside the details ~ my guy has never been 'in-the-Business', and it was logging in Kanchanaburi at 15, not sugar cane, and it was 800 baht a month (gross) at a restaurant in Rayong, not 2500 in Bangkok, and laying new tiles in the sun for 12 hours with his brother at rotting old temples at Ayuttaya at 20, not massaging soft and saggy farang flesh in Pattaya.

But the details are hardly important ... infinite variations of which are in fact the background hiss of hundreds of thousands of poorly educated boys (now middle-aged men) born on hard scrabble farms in upcountry Thailand.

I also roll my eyes at some of cndmatt's, er, 'interesting' takes on his relationship with a Thai boy. I'm not sure if I wish cndmatt all that well in his, er, 'experiment'. In fact, the more he writes about this, the more I tend to start wishing the Thai guy the best of luck instead. He'll need it with a partner of cndmatt's mindset.

Diec

September 24th, 2009, 11:33

giggsy

September 24th, 2009, 16:21

supported totally by his Thai friend working in a mushroom factory.

Sounds like a fun guy .

stkyricesf

September 24th, 2009, 20:33

Smiles and Gone Fishing your posts were very interesting and well thought out.
It always warms my heart when I hear or read of relationships that last long
time. Glad everything worked out. I'm hoping to find that one day, hopefully
with my bf.

September 25th, 2009, 00:26

Girlfriend, what a darling story. What does your boyfriend do to help support you? I'm sure he is in school and becoming a doctor, or has his own business at the age of 21 like most poster's boyfriends on this board have. Loved your story!!

Diec, you haven't (yet!) annoyed me enough to not be worth replying to so I'll assume your questions were somewhat tongue in cheek (even if it is probably someone else's hairy cheek) but not completely hypothetical.

Support me? Do you mean emotionally, physically or financially?

Emotionally, he is one of the few people who understands me (and I him). I am told that I am not quite as insufferable IRL as I am here (though I am sure those who tell me are wrong and they are just being polite), but I do have a number of "idiosyncracies" which he is helping me grow out of, and I am considerably more jai yen than before - at least outwardly. As Melvyn so aptly put it, he "makes me want to be a better man".

Physically, although I have not run a marathon for some time, I am still comparatively fit and healthy despite a few old injuries. We do, however, have quite a large garden (edit - thanks Dave: three rai / an acre / half a hectare) and a selection of flora and fauna which need a lot of attention and which I could not take care of by myself. He is also an excellent cook, while I can barely boil an egg, and a good masseur. Some things are simply far easier with two people, such as dealing with snakes (I normally deal with the business end), going up ladders and on the roof (he weighs 50 kgs, I don't), driving up country (he is a better driver than me, even though I taught him), etc. One of the few things we do not do is sleep at the same time (although we do "sleep together") as he sleeps a minimum of 9 hours a day, while I sleep a maximum of 5. Although (honestly!) it was not the reason for asking him to move in, become my partner, etc, he also happens to be the best sex I have ever had (although I doubt if that feeling is reciprocated, despite what he says) - edit: and that's also far easier with two people!.

Financially, he didn't own his own business at 21 (although, on second thoughts, I suppose you could say he did when he gave up massage and freelanced) and if he were to finish high school, attend university and become a doctor he would be nearly my age by the time he finished. He is a trained, qualified and fully licenced hair stylist (not a barber / hairdresser!) which he enjoyed learning on a six month course and he occasionally helps out a friend when she is busy at a local small salon (unpaid). He controls the "food budget", whether dining in or out (or at Swensen's), sells our coconuts to a local buyer, and is almost impossible to buy anything for. He is also an "agent" for a sales firm (Avon / Tupperware type), which so far he is not very good at as he is a terrible liar, far too honest and most of his friends don't have any money, so I am his main customer (although some of their health products are genuinely very effective!). He could work if he wanted to and I would support him, but fortunately it is not financially necessary (yet!) as we have "sufficent" and it would make the relationship a little redundant as we would spend less time together.

Giggsy, did you mean the Thai or the Canadian?? They are both actually nice guys (I suppose some Canadians have to be), but the recession makes little allowance for that - there, but for the grace of God / Buddha go you or I! The Canadian is doing "adult re-training" - sounds a bit like the Gulag, but apparently it is a Government re-training scheme - and meanwhile living fully supported in the Thai's "loom for lent". He actually worked in the mushroom factory part-time while helping as a waiter in his friend's restaurant; all the other "staff" are either Thai, of whom he is the only one who did not go there as "arranged" labour, or African - the Africans apparently all give him rather a wide berth as they have not come across anyone quite like him before (he is, shall we say, a trifle fem) and they are frightened he will cast some sort of spell on them (or at least that's what he thinks).

The Thai's English appears to have improved little, and he still can't read or write any English (which doesn't say much for his friend, who spent a few months as a qualified TOEFL teacher in Thailand!) so he is pretty limited in what he can do and so far (at least as far as I know) he has not taken up his old job which is what most here would seem to expect.

N O E, Smiles, we are not alone! I know quite a number of farang / Thai gay relationships which have stood the test of time, some ex-"in-the-business", some not - it actually seems to make little difference.

giggsy

September 25th, 2009, 04:16

[quote="Gone Fishing"]

Giggsy, did you mean the Thai or the Canadian?? They are both actually nice guys (I suppose some Canadians have to be), but the recession makes little allowance for that - there, but for the grace of God / Buddha go you or I! The Canadian is doing "adult re-training" - sounds a bit like the Gulag, but apparently it is a Government re-training scheme - and meanwhile living fully supported in the Thai's "loom for lent". He actually worked in the mushroom factory part-time while helping as a waiter in his friend's restaurant; all the other "staff" are either Thai, of whom he is the only one who did not go there as "arranged" labour, or African - the Africans apparently all give him rather a wide berth as they have not come across anyone quite like him before (he is, shall we say, a trifle fem) and they are frightened he will cast some sort of spell on them (or at least that's what he thinks).[ quote]
GF
You sound a bit more like your old self,you seem to have been a bit grumpy lately.
My reference was to the Thai friend working in the mushroom factory. I said he sounded like a "fun guy",if you missed the connection with "fungi"then my sense of humour must be slipping after posting on here for 18 months. :laughing1: oh well back to the day job :drv:

September 25th, 2009, 05:36

I agree with who ever said that you are paying too much. As you quite rightly pointed out the Thai culture is a sharing culture: if you have, you are expected to support those that have not. The more you hand over the more support he has to offer the more status he gains the more he hands over. It is a cycle difficult to break. As you are giving him 26000 Baht he will be supporting to that amount. 15000 Baht per month is a realistic and quite generous amount. When he needs more he will ask for it, then at least you can quiz him on how is spending his money. Having said that such a request for information is normally met with a complete blank - you will find it as frustrating as hell. Having said all the above your experience goes with the territory. As a matter of interest the GDP per head in Thailand is approximately 10000 baht/month. Most of the Thais live on a lot less than that. My boyfriend did not speak any English when I first met him, but we persevered and now he is quite fluent. It is a beautiful experience what ever the out come - best of luck and enjoy.

September 25th, 2009, 07:34

We do, however, have quite a large garden (three rai / a hectare / half an acre)

hate to be picky about details, but
3 rai = 4800m2
1 hectare = 10,000m2
1/2 acre = 2,000m2 (approx)

Smiles

September 25th, 2009, 12:44

" ... Smiles, we are not alone! I know quite a number of farang / Thai gay relationships which have stood the test of time, some ex-"in-the-business", some not - it actually seems to make little difference ... "
I'm sure we are not alone ... just a tiny minority on this Board.
And ~ in case you thought it was ~ my "not-in-the-business" comment was not meant as judgmental in any way. I was simply pointing out some of our 'detail' differences which, in fact, at the end of the day are essentially unimportant to a bigger picture.

Beachlover

September 25th, 2009, 21:14

[quote="Gone Fishing":wjapa35p] We do, however, have quite a large garden (three rai / a hectare / half an acre)

hate to be picky about details, but
3 rai = 4800m2
1 hectare = 10,000m2
1/2 acre = 2,000m2 (approx)[/quote:wjapa35p]

Now watch, as Gone Fruity calls you a clueless idiot who needs to wake up to reality and get a nanny.

September 25th, 2009, 23:39

I'm sure we are not alone ... just a tiny minority on this Board.

Agreed, Smiles - though I would like to put a bit more emphasis on the "on this Board" bit, as I think that this board is getting less and less representative of "Gay Thailand" by the day.

I didn't think for a second that there was any sort of disparagement or judgement meant, although had it been any number of other posters that would have been my immediate reaction. You did, though, set me thinking along those lines and about past "encounters" of the financial and non-financial variety. I haven't kept a score card, but as far as I can recall most of my encounters, whether when young and svelte or old and fat(ter) have been non-financial, even in Thailand, irrespective of whether they were one-offs (no pun intended, giggsy!) or repeats. It just so happens that "The One" happened to gave been "in-the-business" for a while; I don't really think about it and we don't talk about it any more (or any less!) than I do about his time in his other jobs - in fact we talk about cutting sugar cane more, as that comes up regularly in his dreams while the-business never does.

What surprises me most about him, and I am guessing that you and N O E and anyone else fortunate enough to be in a similar position may have a similar experience, is firstly that he doesn't resent being born poor (in his case poor even by the village standards) in the slightest and that although he dreams about "what if" like anyone else there is no envy involved, and secondly that he always manages to find something really funny about it. He never had any money at school, until he started working, so when the other children bought 1 baht ice creams he went off and played cartwheels by himself instead - until one day when his hand landed on a 1 baht coin someone had lost and he remembers all the other children being jealous of him as he bought an ice cream and ate it when they had all finished theirs.

When they went on a school visit he had been working cutting sugar cane, so he went with 400 baht in his pocket. When the teacher saw it he could hardly believe it and warned him not to show it off to the others - something he still remembers and observes, as he never shows off anything he has (I met the teacher some 15 years later when I visited the school, and I was genuinely impressed). Even now very few of his "Pattaya" friends know, for example, that he has a car or has been abroad. When we were choosing a wedding ring he simply chose one he liked, rather than follow the salesgirl's whispered "choose that one - its bigger, so you can sell it later" which he managed not to burst out laughing about until we were out of the shop.

Thinking about it now, he is the only person I know who not only makes me smile every day but who I can guarantee will make me laugh with him at least once every day.

my sense of humour must be slipping after posting on here for 18 months. :laughing1: oh well back to the day job[/color] :drv:

Don't worry, giggsy, its my powers of observation rather than your sense of humour that's slipping - I actually liked that one a lot! Some posters seem to be amused by editing quotes and making silly comments, and I have rather stupidly reacted to them more than they deserve - I'll try to avoid doing so in the future.

hate to be picky .....

Why? You were quite right (and it's still quite a lot of grass to cut!).

..... your experience goes with the territory .....

Sadly, that is the general view on this board. The most regrettable thing about this whole affair is not that it will all end in tears but that the Thai boy will become yet another one of the Pattaya bar workers who has had his hopes built up by a farang only to discover that what he was first told and led to believe was a lie, while the farang will blame it all on the boy's and his friends' greed and stupidity and tell everyone that the stories about "money boys" are all true.

cdnmatt

September 26th, 2009, 01:18

The most regrettable thing about this whole affair is not that it will all end in tears but that the Thai boy will become yet another one of the Pattaya bar workers who has had his hopes built up by a farang only to discover that what he was first told and led to believe was a lie

Hey GF,

I'm not going to respond to everything else in this thread, because I've already made enough of an ass out of myself. I'm genuinely curious though, why do you say that? Maybe because I seem "younger" than you, am a little (ok, alot) unsure of what I'm doing, and don't have the experience with Thai BFs that you do? That's hardly a recipe for disaster.

Or what is it? I know I come off as quite erratic on the forums, and I actually apologize for that. Don't worry, I'm quite a bit different in person. Generally, the only time I visit forums is when I have too many drinks in me to do any work, and have nothing better to do.

Or maybe because I don't have the specifics figured out yet? Well, of course I don't, because it's not up to me. We spent two months together in Pattaya of all places, and we can't talk to each other (yet), so having in-depth one-on-one conversations is pretty tough. Most of the time was spent getting to know each other, and seeing if we were compatible. Not planning out the future. Not to mention, I'm not on vacation. I'm working, and in general, put in a minimum of 60 hours a week, and don't have a choice in the matter. Right now, it's either 60+ hours a week, or 5 hours and being poor.

Then I know you believe I'm controlling, but you're 100% wrong. True, I'm not willing to support him, plus 3 - 5 other experienced money boys in Pattaya, just so he can have a good social standing with them, especially considering he constantly says he hates Pattaya. Don't worry, I'm pretty open minded and liberal.

Nonetheless, I can say the last time I felt this way about a person was back in the fall of 2003, when I met my now ex-husband. And we had an absolutely amazing relationship together, and one where people would say we made a perfect couple, were meant for each other, etc. Unfortunately it didn't work out, and although I made more than my fair share of mistakes, it was mainly his fault, which he will admit too. He was the one who threw it away when we moved to the homophobic society of Hungary, not me. Don't worry, I have my faults like everyone, but I'm a half-decent partner.

I don't know, and I don't know if or how the dust will settle. I do know I can't get him out of my mind though, and I haven't felt this way towards someone for a long time. I'm curious though, why do you think it'll end badly between us, and I'll end up leaving him worst off than when I met him? Just because I don't have any experience with having a Thai BF doesn't mean I'm stupid. It just means I'm inexperienced, which I'm more than happy to admit. I'll also more than happy to learn as well. ;)

Thanks for the post explaining your relationship though, as it was nice to read, and congrats to you guys. I'm still curious as to why you think it's impossible for that to happen between myself and the guy I know. I can say that as long as he wants me around, and doesn't act like a total jackass and treats me like shit, I will NOT drop him in life. And I'll be very, very surprised if he treats me like shit anytime in the next 6 - 12 months. Then again, I haven't seen him for two weeks to this day, he'll be 20 next month, so things change quickly when you're that age, and maybe things have already changed for him. I doubt it, but you never know.

September 26th, 2009, 04:56

Then again, I haven't seen him for two weeks to this day, he'll be 20 next month, so things change quickly when you're that age, and maybe things have already changed for him. I doubt it, but you never know.
That is always the crux of the problem - not knowing, and it is a problem you will probably never overcome. I think you must except that and enjoy the relationship for what it is, obviously you are smitten, and that can be a beautiful thing. You are a sophisticated westerner, you read effortlessly, you are numerate, you have experienced long term relationships. He has none of these tools in his arsenal. He has just stopped living and sleeping on a farm in conditions you probably would not keep a dog. Give him some time and teach him to speak English - that is the greatest gift you can bestow - for how ever long it lasts. Best wishes.

Beachlover

September 26th, 2009, 09:01

September 26th, 2009, 10:51

I've read your posts Mattie, with intrest but my mouth closed. Everyone's full of advice on this board (including me) but I think you're of an age where you just have to see for yourself. Still, your situation has so many elements similar to mine that I just have to play Dutch Uncle and chime in.
But I'll just tell you my expierience so you can use it as a data point.

My first Thai "love" was a full blown Ladyboy who lived in Pattaya, on Walking St, above Jenny Star bar (Ladyboy Hangout). That should have been warning enough but I was new to the scene......She was 20 by then but had come to Sin City at 16 or 17 with a monster cock and by the time we met up was a) jaded, b) in a bad crowd and c) Yabba addicted. It was a learning expierience for me that cost me a lot of Bhat and a lot of Drama (and I'll admit some heartache too).

Current ladyboyfriend I met as an 18 yr old femboy who desperatly wanted out of the Pattaya scene. Well I took him out of the scene and sent him home to Mama on a real tight leash of only 12K per month. There was one point, out of lonliness, where he wanted to go back to Pattaya and be with his friends. He rented and apartment with 1 other guy but before you know it he had 6 hangers-on taking advantage of him. And he knew it too but he couldn't say "no" to "friends". Its not a Thai thing. He's young, and he was acting like all cooky, lonely, wanna-be young people do (oh, come on guys, we've all been there when we were 18-20, right?).
I saw what he could become if he stayed in that town in the company he was in.
I distracted him with a new house and sent him back home to Mama.
He (she!) is now 24 and has gotten over Pattaya. All the friends have scattered so when we go there there's not so many distractions. I don't have to worry about the Yabba, the gambling, the all night karaoke. All that stuff that just drains money and corrodes personality.
It is tough sometimes. Im not in Thailand so (s)he gets lonely a lot. The stipend is now up to 15K a month and its plenty for living in the sticks. With 1st Ladyboy 20K wasn't anywhere near enough for Keeping Up Appearences in Pattaya (and all the Yabba).

I have to say so far so good.
It is possible to make it with an ex bar boy, as even GF will admit.
But Pattaya is full of dangers.

September 26th, 2009, 15:17

Well I don't wish to be rude but have you lost your mind. My ex boyfriend lives and works in A big hotel in Pattaya 5 days a week and gets about 11000.00 baht a month. pluss food and medical insurance. He lives in a condo with his friend that also works in the hotel.
rent 5000 baht a month free food 5 days a week. a thai can live on about 200 baht a day he tells me.
He does not sell his body, (so he say's and is not a money boy. ) I don't beleave anything Thai's say. They say what you want to hear. He's 29 years old. so he's a man not a boy. yes thai people look after each other, who ever has money pays for food ect. Many boys love to find a customer to fall in love with them and will have many sending money each month. thats there job. after living in Pattaya for 2 years I don't go to the bars anymore. I don't really have many thai friends ie becouse the only see us as ATM"S which I'm not for anyone.

I would never give a key to a boy. as his room friend will steal it and rob you went you out with him. So he knows you know it was not him. I would sergest you ask him if he would like to go back to school away from Pattaya and only live with you. you can feed him and keep him if that what he wants. If not send him on his way back to the bars to find the next mug.

One thing I have come to understand is Thai's don't really give to fucks about us. It's only money they care about in staying that looking at some of the fat old men I see in the bars. I understand that the boys hate sleeping with them. would you want to do that.? I think not. remember you can take the boys out of the bars but you can not take the bar out of the boys. One very nice Thai friend told me Ben go to the bar take a boy fuck him and send him back to the bar. I understand his meaning but I'm not like that So I stay away from them. also if you have a Thai bf his family will need you to help them as well. thats why they send there kids to pattaya to find a good harted fool.

I hope it works out with you and your friend, but I don't think it will, went the money stops they will have to find a new fool.all my friends have told me what happend to them and I read a lot and travel to many places I leave Pattaya in 2 weeks. and will not be coming back anytime soon. last week I was in Cambodia I felt safe and no sex bars it was very nice I can do with out sex no problem. still I'm still young at 50 and still working if I'm going to sent money every month to anyone I will send it to my own family in the uk best wishes Ben

Beachlover

September 26th, 2009, 15:42

Well of course, if you're a "fat old man" with poor character and nothing appealing to offer no boy is going to like being with you.

Personally, I think if you're after a long-term relationship you've a better chance of success in Bangkok and other places rather than Pattaya... though that's not to say you wouldn't find it in Pattaya.

I think you've just got to take the next step... move away... do the thing. And see if he follows you. Try and test the waters in some way first. See if he's really willing to stay with you... and genuinely likes you... or if he's just saying "yes" because he doesn't know what else to say.

Brad the Impala

September 26th, 2009, 16:20

I don't really have many thai friends

Why am I not surprised, given your perception of Thai people!

September 27th, 2009, 01:33

Well, Matt, you're appearing a bit more reasonable so I'll try to do the same - and while I freely admit that I am being critical, even excessively so, at least I have offered some constructive and specific advice rather than only either flattery or abuse.

I'll take it one bit at at time (as usual!)

I'm genuinely curious though, why do you say that? Maybe because I seem "younger" than you ..... don't have the experience with Thai BFs that you do? That's hardly a recipe for disaster. .....Or maybe because I don't have the specifics figured out yet? Well, of course I don't, because it's not up to me.

No, its got nothing to do with your being (not seeming!) younger, or the number of Thai BFs I have had. Being younger should, if anything, be an advantage. I don't have any great "experience with Thai BFs". I had one previous relationship with a straight Thai boy which was an abject disaster for reasons I have explained elsewhere (in brief,apart from him being straight, he was an alcoholic and addicted to substance abuse amongst other problems) and I now have a Civil Partnership with a Thai; all my other "experiences" involving sex have been purely sexual, based on either mutual attraction or financial incentive, with no consideration of any lasting "relationship" (at least on my side).

While the choice of what he wants to do is entirely up to him, the "specifics" are up to you. Not only because he will probably not know or be able to find out anything about them for himself (particularly if he can hardly read, which he may be loath to admit) but because his choice will be limited by what you are prepared to make available. Leaving it all "up to him" even with an open wallet will result in what you have got now - it is not a question of "control" but one of discussion and suggestion. Do you know what his level of schooling actually was? What are his interests? Indoors or out of doors? Working with his hands or his brain? Has he mentioned conscription next year? I accept that language is a barrier, but you have to communicate if you want a relationship - even though I think it would be more accurate to call it a "project" than a relationship.

Then I know you believe I'm controlling, but you're 100% wrong. True, I'm not willing to support him, plus 3 - 5 other experienced money boys in Pattaya, just so he can have a good social standing with them, especially considering he constantly says he hates Pattaya.

If you want to control what he does with his money once you have given it to him, then you are "controlling", whether you like it or not! Its his money, not yours once you have given it to him, and its up to him how he spends it. You chose how much to give him (despite the advice you were given here), and its up to him to choose what to do with it.

I'm curious though, why do you think it'll end badly between us, and I'll end up leaving him worst off than when I met him?

The crux of the matter. Because, unless you change your plans, you have lied to him from the start and he is about to find that out. You chose to ""wow" him" and to give him " ..... about 25,000 THB ...a month, or thereabouts ... add in riding elephants, going to the island, buying clothes, eating, drinking, etc... around 90,000 THB a month. Well, that's probably exaggerating. Say 70,000" on the basis that "...first you sweep them off their feet, and later on it settles down". Now, without any warning, you are about to change all that and you intended to do so from the beginning. Do you think that is going to make him trust you? Or do you think it is going to confirm what his friends have doubtless been telling him that (thanks, BL!) "Farangs are unreliable"?

Like it or not, you are the one who has provided the means for him to become what he is now compared with what he was two months ago.

I am not saying that it is "impossible" for your relationship to develop and grow - what I am saying is that everything you have done so far, whatever your intentions, has made it more unlikely and more difficult (only my opinion - Non omnes qui habemt citharam sunt citharoedi ) and I think you will have an uphill struggle to get back on course.

Just because I don't have any experience with having a Thai BF doesn't mean I'm stupid.

I never thought that was the reason.

(Sorry, but I couldn't resist that one - seriously, if you want to know any "specifics" which I may be able to help with such as adult edcation, etc, send me a PM - I, too, am "quite a bit different in person.")