Krazy Dragon not closed.UPDATE CLOSED?

[MARK]

Krazy Dragon NOT closed.

The Thai provincial court at Jomtien fined the bar 2000Bht today for having an underage customer in the bar.
Case closed. NO TEE MONEY :hello1:

Mark

Excellent, good on you for hanging in there Mark.

[MARK]

Krazy Dragon NOT closed.

The Thai provincial court at Jomtien fined the bar 2000Bht today for having an underage customer in the bar.
Case closed. NO TEE MONEY :hello1:

Mark

Premature slap on my back,

Sorry about this but heard via a well known bar owner next to me with letтАЩs say more than a few problems that within 7-10 days the governor of Chonburi will be serving 90 day closure orders on 5 go-go bars in Sunne Plaza.
I can only keep you informed as I hear anything official,
All 5 bars are owned by non Thais.

Mark.

[cdnmatt]

I'm curious as to their rationale for such a decision. 5 bars get closed for 90 days, so that's what? Say around 100 - 150 boys now unemployed? Sure, quite a few will go home, but lots will probably stay here, and just resort to working the streets and beach. That's going to cause lots of problems, and make things more dangerous for everyone involved.

Why would they think this is a good idea? At least with the bars it could be contained and watched by the police. Now, it's going to get spread all over the place, and the boys are no longer watched over whatsoever, so thefts and assaults will go up, etc.

[Brad the Impala]

They really can't win can they! If they leave bars open that employ underage boys or drug taking guys, everyone complains that they aren't doing anything about the problem. If they do act, some guys are complaining that they are taking action!

[Wesley]

Well ow many bars re there that are farang owned , is this sayign you think you may be one of them Mark?

Wes

[Beachlover]

Underaged customer?

Underaged customer?

Bar customers have to be 20, while the boys on stage only have to be 18. TIT.

[MARK]

Krazy Dragon NOT closed.

The Thai provincial court at Jomtien fined the bar 2000Bht today for having an underage customer in the bar.
Case closed. NO TEE MONEY :hello1:

Mark

Premature slap on my back,

Sorry about this but heard via a well known bar owner next to me with letтАЩs say more than a few problems that within 7-10 days the governor of Chonburi will be serving 90 day closure orders on 5 go-go bars in Sunne Plaza.
I can only keep you informed as I hear anything official,
All 5 bars are owned by non Thais.

Mark.

Sorry posted that last night after I got home may be I was vague,

The krazy Dragon is on the list

1 Villa Rouge-kaos-The red house
2 Sundance
3 Euroboys
4 Tumyum
5 Krazy Dradon

I will have to wait and see what happens and the info came from top of the list.

[MARK]

Underaged customer?

Thais have to be 20 to drink in a bar,

In 6 years I have never seen this enforced, but it is the law.

It is a Small fine for the boy 300-500Bht
The bar was find 2000Bht

But now I have found my self on the wrong side of the Law, wich I am as thay have proved, but it looks like thay are going whole out to tar ever body with the same brush and close Sunee gogo bars all in one go.
For all you Mark kikers should be amussing right know. :dontknow:

[Rene]

For all the repressive puritans among us you may like to consider the fact that if all of the laws were enforced very few people would be left outside prison walls.

So many clamor for clean-up campaigns forgetting that there are laws against prostitution. That is just for starters.
Very few people ever call for fewer laws, and yet that is what we need. So this situation will continue like a dog chasing its tail.
Even Mark's partner, Peter, fell afoul of the law shortly before his tragic death. Why? Because among other things the law as it stands sets an irrationally high age for sexual activities. It is unreasonable to think boys of 16 or 17 don't know what they are doing with their bodies.

The laws should be changed to reflect the realities of life, and to allow the police to concentrate on important things like helping little old ladies cross the street.

In the meantime, I do not recommend violating any laws whatsoever. In fact, the quickest way to get many of the ridiculous ones repealed is to insist on every law being strictly enforced, to the letter.

So in light of this, it is a good thing that an underage customer has been arrested in Mark's bar and I think Krazy Dragon should suffer the same fate as the rest. There should be a concerted effort along this line until everyone sees the absurdity of it all.
Foreign laws also should be fully enforced. As of this year, Norwegians patronizing a prostitute anywhere in the world and of any age are in violation of Norwegian law and can be prosecuted under the laws of Norway. We should insist that those laws are fully enforced as well.

[MARK]

WHAT a load of crap.

The unlicenced bars remain open thay have no license to take off them.

[x in pattaya]

By commenting on all these things in a public forum, you may very well make things worse for yourself. Obviously the authorities are aware of these message boards (I believe several were temporarily and ineffectively blocked in Thailand recently). I know they have other more reliable sources of "information," but discussion/comment on legal proceedings, which apparently have not yet been fully settled, can be considered contempt ... either in the full legal sense or in the more personal sense. If someone has an axe to grind, no matter how unfair it might be, bitching about it openly is not going to improve things and the axe grinders may very well be monitoring the response in places like this board.

[giggsy]

Underaged customer?
In 6 years I have never seen this enforced, but it is the law.
But now I have found my self on the wrong side of the Law, wich I am as thay have proved, but it looks like thay are going whole out to tar ever body with the same brush and close Sunee gogo bars all in one go.
For all you Mark kikers should be amussing right know. :dontknow:
Mark
In Spain unfortunately to my friends cost I know that the local Spanish people are extremely jealous of British bars doing too good of a trade. They seem to get more visits from the Guardia civil (national police) and more then their fair of break ins with no one ever seeing or hearing anything. I have not been to your bar you have made it one of the must see places to go to in Pattaya. Perhaps itтАЩs just the same in Thailand, if a business is doing too good of a trade the locals get jealous and this could be the reason your name is on the list. Any reason even just a minor infringement could be just what they were waiting for.
All the best.

[Rene]

Any reason even just a minor infringement could be just what they were waiting for.

giggsy, there is no longer any such thing as a "minor infringement". Times are changing. Many on this board scream bloody murder when someone UNDERAGE is involved in Sunee Plaza. Some fat assed German businessman has campaigned to close even the Sunee streets off to anyone at all who is underage. OK, so this is an UNDERAGE customer. It's still UNDERAGE and in a bar devoted to male prostitution and that too is illegal.

The chickens are coming home to roost.

You think you are exempt from prosecution because you follow most of the laws? Or because you follow the laws you feel are convenient for you to obey?

So now the crusaders are being swept away by the laws they sought in the first place. Pass more laws! I want more clean up campaigns! ROTFL

[Dani69]

Well now you will have 90 days to test all the boys :alc:

Hmmm. When Wild West Boys appeared to be in trouble your sensitive response was:


Re: Wild West Boys
Author: MARK ┬╗ Fri 31 Jul, 2009 1:22 am

OH OH I am all exited rumors or not I would like another 10 boys taking me to my 60 goal and we only have 18 dancing tables they will all have to sit on the customers knees.
But then I will have to keep my promise and let all you randy old customers have a free off on the boys one night.
THEN I will push for the next goal 100
Mark.

Looks like what-goes-around-comes-around and has bitten you in the ass.
Maybe your indifference to the problems at WWB are being reciprocated... or more. You play with fire, you burn your digits.

[elephantspike]

Thanks for putting the date in the quote, soi hok gao, but it does little to put in context topically. How about a link to that thread?

Look, folks, this shit happens all the time in the USA and the UK. Bars get busy, IDs don't get checked, 19 year olds get beer, and sometimes the inspector just happens to come along when the 19 yo customer has the beer in his hand.

Let's not make it into something it isn't.

Just another "final nail" in the Thai (sex) tourism coffin... LOL.

Just another "final nail" in the Thai (sex) tourism coffin... LOL.

Not as long as you have floppy ears Bunny, the Thai sex industry brings in too many tourists dollars for them to rigorously inforce the current laws about prostitution etc. This is no more than a little purge to please a few.......

:cheers:

[MARK]

Hmmm. When Wild West Boys appeared to be in trouble your sensitive response was:


Re: Wild West Boys
Author: MARK ┬╗ Fri 31 Jul, 2009 1:22 am

OH OH I am all exited rumors or not I would like another 10 boys taking me to my 60 goal and we only have 18 dancing tables they will all have to sit on the customers knees.
But then I will have to keep my promise and let all you randy old customers have a free off on the boys one night.
THEN I will push for the next goal 100
Mark.

Looks like what-goes-around-comes-around and has bitten you in the ass.
Maybe your indifference to the problems at WWB are being reciprocated... or more. You play with fire, you burn your digits.

I do believe that the rumor was that were closing due to lack or customers.
If and thatтАЩs if I have to close I hope somebody gives my boys work. :sign3:

[Rene]

Look, folks, this shit happens all the time in the USA and the UK. Bars get busy, IDs don't get checked, 19 year olds get beer, and sometimes the inspector just happens to come along when the 19 yo customer has the beer in his hand.

Let's not make it into something it isn't.

But do you take the same easy going attitude when a 17 year old is offed by a farang?

I find it ironic that Mark's partner was in that exact situation, after having been caught with a 17 year old, and died shortly after, and maybe the stress that arrest put him under added to his tragic demise. Some think it was the bratwurst he was eating at the restaurant where he corked off. But I doubt that. I think it was mainly due to the stress of his arrest, and not only the greasy bratwurst, that did him in.

My point is this: if there is a law on the books, it should be enforced. There are a lot of very stupid laws but rarely does anyone raise a hue and cry about doing the obvious and that is to get the laws changed. The NGOs were successful in getting many idiotic laws passed about 15 years ago, but the gays quiver and quake at the thought of doing the same to change them. In fact the gays, by and large, cheered on the NGOs and their puritanical crusade stupidly thinking it would make their own positions seem more noble, stronger and more secure. Nothing could have been further from the truth as we can now see.

That's why I say that the chickens have come home to roost. And I hope and pray the laws continue to be enforced until only the police are living outside of prison walls. By that time it will be too late. ROTFL

"First they came for the Communists, and I didnтАЩt speak up, because I wasnтАЩt a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didnтАЩt speak up, because I wasnтАЩt a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didnтАЩt speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me." -Martin Niem├╢ller

Thanks for putting the date in the quote, soi hok gao, but it does little to put in context topically. How about a link to that thread?

Look, folks, this shit happens all the time in the USA and the UK. Bars get busy, IDs don't get checked, 19 year olds get beer, and sometimes the inspector just happens to come along when the 19 yo customer has the beer in his hand.

Let's not make it into something it isn't.


gay-thailand/wild-west-boys-t18135.html (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand/wild-west-boys-t18135.html)


If you really think the police or other government authorities randomly check for underage customers and close bars for that reason in Thailand, or that such police checks are comparable to the US, you demonstrate how little you understand about Thailand. "Random" inspections with no underlying motivation don't exist here. Get real.

If someone want certain bars closed either temporarily or permanently, there will always be a 19 year old drinking a beer when the police arrive. You can't be so naive as to believe otherwise. Mark's success and his moaning about Thai authorities will cost him in the end... literally.


I've seen families with children in a certain Boyztown bar and believe me you won't see any police ID checks happening there. You play by local rules or you'll get a red card.

Are you saying that Mark was set up? Oh, my!

[elephantspike]

Look, folks, this shit happens all the time in the USA and the UK. Bars get busy, IDs don't get checked, 19 year olds get beer, and sometimes the inspector just happens to come along when the 19 yo customer has the beer in his hand.

Let's not make it into something it isn't.

But do you take the same easy going attitude when a 17 year old is offed by a farang?

No. That's a completely different thing.

[Rene]

No. That's a completely different thing.

In that case, perhaps you would be so kind as to give us a comprehensive list of the laws that are no big deal, and those that are "a completely different thing" at least regarding Thailand, so that we could have the benefit of your wisdom on the matter.

It was my understanding that laws are to be obeyed and those that transgress them must pay the price when apprehended. It seems you have a very cavalier attitude toward at least some laws.

As you said, a lot of "shit happens" that is overlooked in America and the UK and yet will get you executed in places as diverse as Singapore, Malaysia or Saudi Arabia. Hence we need your advice on what you feel it is safe to ignore in this regard.

Of course, regardless of what you think, it will do little to help Mark in his plight any more than your ideology had any bearing on his deceased partner's arrest. Both caught in flagrante delicto. What irony!

[Wesley]

its jealousy and likely nothing more, ask K. Quill, if any bar threatens the boys town area or business this is what happens , it is the unwritten law, They are crooks plain and simple. And they will do anything to crush any competition. I am not Naming any bar but, I guess you can guess who I am talking about.

Wes

"Random" inspections with no underlying motivation don't exist here. Get real..... You play by local rules or you'll get a red card.

Very, very true.

My point is this: if there is a law on the books, it should be enforced.Yes, in my time I've worked with many an older policemen who's enjoyed locking up guys for infringeing the laws on "no gay sex".

[x in pattaya]

Sorry, but this thread and the other on the Sunee raid and the various tangents that have blossomed have me a bit confused (and too lazy to try to retrace them all).

Is Krazy Dragon up and running at the moment? If so, when is a final verdict on its operating status likely to be handed down?

And, on a personal level, Mark, to you find this to be a tempest in a teapot or do you feel cornered/threatened by it all? I assume a 90 day closing would be rough ( to put it mildly) on you and your boys, but hope if it comes to that you'll still plan to pick up the pieces and soldier on?? On the one hand, if they closed all the gogo bars in Pattaya it wouldn't really impact me that much, but on the other hand I still enjoy the occasional visit to places like KD or Wild West or even Cartier and I do feel some sympathy for all the "boys" who would suffer financially.

I don't know if this is possible in Thailand but I'll offer it any way. Suppose at KG you added a sandwich bar or sushi bar or some kind of food service with a menu. Does the place then become a restaurant and, if so, does it matter what the ages of the customers are in a restaurant. I imagine so much of your income must come from the sale of food but if you offered breakfast in the a.m., it might work.

Thoughts?

Is Krazy Dragon up and running at the moment? If so, when is a final verdict on its operating status likely to be handed down?

.


still open - nobody knows for sure!

[x in pattaya]

I don't know if this is possible in Thailand but I'll offer it any way. Suppose at KG you added a sandwich bar or sushi bar or some kind of food service with a menu. Does the place then become a restaurant and, if so, does it matter what the ages of the customers are in a restaurant. I imagine so much of your income must come from the sale of food but if you offered breakfast in the a.m., it might work.

Thoughts?

They could sell houseplants and call it a greenhouse, but there would still be boys dancing on tables and booze being sold. I don't think it would take the C.I.D. to see through the "clever" camouflage.




Is Krazy Dragon up and running at the moment? If so, when is a final verdict on its operating status likely to be handed down?

.


still open - nobody knows for sure!

Thanks Khun O.

[ceejay]

It used to work in London. In the bad old days when pubs were closed by law between 3.00 and 5.30 in the afternoons, some places had restaurant licences which allowed them to serve drink with food. You could order a cheese sandwich then sit there drinking all afternoon. Of course, nobody ever ate the food (often nobody could eat the food - those sandwiches were strictly for display, and kept till they turned green.) It seemed to satisfy the police. Mind you, in those days, there was nothing the BIB could have taught the central London divisions of the Metropolitan police about selling tickets to the Policemen's Ball.

[x in pattaya]

Yes, but this is not London or California. If the police, or whoever, inspect a bar here, and their purpose is to close you down or pick up a little contribution for their retirement plan, then they will apply the intent of the law they want to use to do it.
And if a business owner, especially a farang business owner, tries to argue some cutsey trick they've used to bend the law, it won't fly with the police or the courts.

In another area, people have been bending the law by setting up sham businesses so that the business could buy a house and land. Technically they were working within the law, but they were obviously trying to circumvent the fact that farang individuals are generally prohibited from owning land. Now the courts are looking at these sham businesses which might be construed to fit the letter of the law ... but if they are found only to subvert the intent of the law the "business" owners may end up losing everything.

If you are a farang here operating a gogo bar or something similar, essentially an illegal business since it is a venue for prostitution, trying to play tricks or being cute with the police is the last thing you want to do ... and it would probably be the last thing you do in Thailand.

I might add that I grew up in Chicago. In many ways, inspection of businesses here and in Chicago are the same. If they want to screw you, they will, and if they want to turn a blind eye, they will ... and it's little to do with the letter of the law or compliance with rules & regulations.