Sunee raid

[naklua]

Yesterday at about 10 p.m. the police started a massive raid in Sunee Plaza. Thez sealed of the exits and then tested the boys for drugs. I heard from a lad working at Villa Rouge/Kaos that 11 of their boys got nabbed by the BiB and that the management had to pay 100,000 Baht bail. I am of course not sure about the accuracy of the amount, I think it sounds a little bit over the top. I dont know if it was for drugs, underage employment or some other reason. As the BiB do never run out of ways to make money from the gay businesses in Pattaya and especially Sunee Plaza, it does not matter anyway. The BiB dont do it for upholding public morale, law and order or other sublime reasons, but it is always only to extort money. Maybe the police chief needs a new Benz?
I was also told that it was not the local police, but BiB from outside, maybe BKK.
It remains to be seen how many bars will be closed today or even for a longer period of time.
Tom Yam just reopend yesterday (under a new name) - maybe this was just a 1 day event...

[Diec]

Oh my, when I need information I'm coming to you because you seem to have it.

[sjaak327]

http://www.pattayaone.net/news/2009/sep ... 52_3.shtml (http://www.pattayaone.net/news/2009/september/news_08_09_52_3.shtml)

[springco]

The "war on drugs" has been, is, and forever shall be a disastrous failure. As the article in the current issue of Esquire says, it is time to legalize everything:

http://www.esquire.com/the-side/richard ... cts-090109 (http://www.esquire.com/the-side/richardson-report/drug-war-facts-090109)

This adds to a long standing call The Economist first made 20 years ago, and repeated again in March of this year to the do the same thing:

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displa ... d=13237193 (http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13237193)

This is no longer a radical idea. It has become the only viable possibility left to us.

[Surfcrest]

The "war on drugs" has been, is, and forever shall be a disastrous failure. As the article in the current issue of Esquire says, it is time to legalize everything:

This is no longer a radical idea. It has become the only viable possibility left to us.

Thank goodness you and Esquire magazine aren't running the world.
Now that you've legalized the drugs, who's going to pay for them...you...government?
Do you think a drug user is going to hold down a job and pay for their own?
So they don't, what to do about all the car thefts, break and enter related crimes as a result?
Then one day, you feel a pain in your chest and you go to the hospital, who's going to clear all the addicts desperate for a fix, out of your way?
How are you going to have the police monitor the condition of people driving behind the wheel?
Have any similar programs cleaned up drinking and driving?
Back in the Lower East side of Vancouver, open drug use is tolerated.
Go have a look and tell me that's the right direction for society to go.
Be careful what you wish for!

[sjaak327]

Well I live in a society where they actually have taken drugs use out of the criminal circuit, and I think we are definitely on the right track.

Of course the boys in brown will loose some tea money opportuneties in the process, but that can't be helped. You do realise that if you take drugs out of the criminal circuit, it also means much lower prices, less crime. And let's be honest, when it comes to Alcohol, it seems to be quite allright (as long as tax is being paid on it of course).

[DCbob]

I was in Sunee last night and did not see anything. I left at 10:30, or there abouts. Then I red a later post and found out that it occurred in the early hours.
I went back to Sunee tonight, and Sundance is closed. Villa Rouge and Krazy Dragon were both opened.
Ain't going to get into the discussion of legalizing drugs or not. Sorry, I do not make the laws.

Well I live in a society where they actually have taken drugs use out of the criminal circuit, and I think we are definitely on the right track.

And where might that be - even Christiania limits legal drug use and sales to soft drugs?

[Brad the Impala]

Surfcrest Asks:

Thank goodness you and Esquire magazine aren't running the world.

Now that you've legalized the drugs, who's going to pay for them...you...government? As now, the user

Do you think a drug user is going to hold down a job and pay for their own? many users already do

So they don't, what to do about all the car thefts, break and enter related crimes as a result? As the price will go down after decriminilisation so will drug related crime

Then one day, you feel a pain in your chest and you go to the hospital, who's going to clear all the addicts desperate for a fix, out of your way? Users won't go to hospital for fixes

How are you going to have the police monitor the condition of people driving behind the wheel? There are already tests available to monitor drug use

Well I live in a society where they actually have taken drugs use out of the criminal circuit, and I think we are definitely on the right track.

Of course the boys in brown will loose some tea money opportuneties in the process, but that can't be helped. You do realise that if you take drugs out of the criminal circuit, it also means much lower prices, less crime. And let's be honest, when it comes to Alcohol, it seems to be quite allright (as long as tax is being paid on it of course).

Legalising drugs, which ones or do you mean some recreational ones? To legalise all drugs or even some is like saying stay drunk to avoid a hangover! Any substance introduced into the body will (on a continuous longtime basis) eventually cause irreplaceable damage to various organs, especially the brain.......

cheers

[sjaak327]

^ Yes, pretty much the same effect as continuous usage of Alcohol has, yet I can legally buy that everywhere.

Make it illegal doesn't stop people from using it (this very thread is yet another example), in fact it might only have a averse effect on drugs usage. It always struck me as strange, that apparently people are wise enough to handle alcohol (a big fat problem in Thailand by the way), yet they cannot be trusted with drugs.

[Brad the Impala]

Well I live in a society where they actually have taken drugs use out of the criminal circuit, and I think we are definitely on the right track.

And where might that be - even Christiania limits legal drug use and sales to soft drugs?

You may not have noticed but Portugal, which had a very high level of hard drug use, decriminalised drugs from grass to heroin in 2001. The action has been a considerable success, leading to reduced drug use,and increased numbers of users getting treatment, for which increased funds are available, as funds are not being wasted on enforcement.

A certain 'blind' Home Secretary in the United Kingdom down graded cannabis to make it, let's say more legal to own/use for personnel use. We are only just seeing the effects that piece of legislation has had on parts of the community, crime up and families wrecked.
One might also find that some, but not all adults can occasionally partake in both alcohol and recreational drug use without getting hooked, but with a lot of youths and of course some adults that is not the case......Look at the other problem with uncontrolled binge drinking, caused by the availability of cheap booze. Admittedly it might be the minority involved, but it is still a drain on public resources such as policing and hospitals services....

Cheers

[Brad the Impala]

A certain 'blind' Home Secretary in the United Kingdom down graded cannabis to make it, let's say more legal to own/use for personnel use. We are only just seeing the effects that piece of legislation has had on parts of the community, crime up and families wrecked.
One might also find that some, but not all adults can occasionally partake in both alcohol and recreational drug use without getting hooked, but with a lot of youths and of course some adults that is not the case......Look at the other problem with uncontrolled binge drinking, caused by the availability of cheap booze. Admittedly it might be the minority involved, but it is still a drain on public resources such as policing and hospitals services....

Cheers

Indeed Sanook, it got so bad that the British Crime Survey noted last year that cannabis use was at it's lowest level in a decade!

Tuesday 8th September 2009
District licensing officials raid 4 boy bars in Soi Sunee Plaza.

Pattaya, September 8 [PATTAYA ONE NEWS] : In the early hours of Tuesday Morning, the Banglamung District Licensing Officials were back in Soi Sunee Plaza in South Pattaya to check a total of 4 bars who were known to be operating illegally following previous raids. The raid was led by Khun Pongtasit, the Deputy Chief of Banglamung District who raided the Villa Rouge Bar, the Crazy Dragon Bar, the Red Night Pub and the Sundance Bar. A total of 12 employees under the age of 18 were found and 34 employees failed drug tests. The Deputy District Chief told us that he would impose an initial 30 day closure order on all venues pending further investigations and promised to continue checking bars in the Sunee Plaza area over the coming weeks.

[llz]

Never heard of a "Red Night Bar" ... where is (was) it ? And is the owner farang or thai ?

[MARK]

You actually thing the reporting is fair and accurate.

They raided most bar including some beer bars not 4 they cannot even get the number and names of the bars correct and one of them I have never seen or heard of and IтАЩve been here six years.
I think it would have been fair to name the bars and that particular bars related problem but thatтАЩs my view and would mean far too much effort going in to the reporting so they print what they like and thatтАЩs it.

Were there any charges brought against your bar?

[gra46]

Were there any charges brought against your bar?
Hi BUNNY i think im the only fucking Idiot on here that dont have you on the FOE list...Wanna chat?, F / Off i dont

[zinzone]

See:
http://pattayaone.net/news/2009/septemb ... 52_3.shtml (http://pattayaone.net/news/2009/september/news_08_09_52_3.shtml)


According to this report certain bars had drug addicts and under age in them and will be closed for 30 days.


"The raid was led by Khun Pongtasit, the Deputy Chief of Banglamung District who raided the Villa Rouge Bar, the Crazy Dragon Bar, the Red Night Pub and the Sundance Bar. A total of 12 employees under the age of 18 were found and 34 employees failed drug tests. The Deputy District Chief told us that he would impose an initial 30 day closure order on all venues pending further investigations and promised to continue checking bars in the Sunee Plaza area over the coming weeks."

Shocking these bars having druggies or under age in them.

[jinks]

See update ..... Crazy Dragon is NOT closed (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand/krazy-dragon-not-closed-t18359.html)

[zinzone]

See update ..... Crazy Dragon is NOT closed (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand/krazy-dragon-not-closed-t18359.html)


Yes but with respect Jinks that information was only posted and made the subject of a seperate posting AFTER I referred to the report in Pattaya One News. Also at the time of the news report it was broadly correct.
Apparently the police did raid bars including Crazy Dragon who were hauled before the Courts and found guilty of an offence lesser than what is mentioned in the Pattaya One News Report.

**********

I do wonder with all the problems in Sunee Plaza why anyone would want to risk going there?!

[Surfcrest]

In the world that I know, the only place on the planet where open drug use (of all kinds) is not only tolerated but supported with local programs such as needle exchange, methadone dispensory services and street nurse services things don't go so well for the users, addicts, police nor the public paying for the whole thing.

While many cannibis users hold jobs and carry on for the most part semi normally (save for lack of motivation) the crack, heroine and crystal (yaba) users don't.

Crime at a local level is not good, car thefts, break and enter, muggings just gets worse for us year after year. The gangs controlling the drugs are carrying on an open war to control the market similar to what is being seen in Mexico. Even teenage pot dealers in rural small town communities are being wacked, sometimes publically with bullets going every which way.

On the doorstep where heroine enters North America and the Grow Op capital of the world, prices could never be more affordable to the curious and to the hard core users. Any yet, without jobs the price could be a nickel and still they couldn't afford it off welfare day.

We've had "Counter Attacks" against drinking and driving going on thirty years and still the legal system is bogged down sorting this sort of crime out. While they may have devices for combatting the drug element while driving, how many years will it take to get ahead of this problem? In the meantime, as with drinking, many people are going to die on the road. The number of stolen cars on the road driven by thieves that are "high" is another really big problem. I was "T-Boned" by one a few years back. They were "high" and running from the cops in a stolen vehicle.

The Emergency Ward that I have had to use a few times in the past year has been clogged with addicts trying to get their methadone fix. When I was in, I was outnumbered by addicts by about 12 to 1 and believe me they don't just sit there patiently waiting for their fix.

I've been to Amsterdam a few times in the past two years and I can see that city suffering too from the same problems that we have. Legalization or tolerance, they are both the wrong direction for society to go.

You may not have noticed but Portugal, which had a very high level of hard drug use, decriminalised drugs from grass to heroin in 2001. The action has been a considerable success, leading to reduced drug use,and increased numbers of users getting treatment, for which increased funds are available, as funds are not being wasted on enforcement.

I had noticed, Brad, and I had also noticed a lot of people (and The Economist!) misunderstanding or misrepresenting both the legal position and the success of the move.

The fact is that possessing and dealing in drugs remains illegal in Portugal, except that those caught with no more than ten daily doses (defined by weight for each drug) would not be arrested or jailed - technically. The drug user/addict can be taken to a police station and then ordered to attend a hearing at a regional 'dissuasion commission' which can then either let him off with a warning or, more likely for repeat offenders and addicts, send them for compulsory treatment. The legal difference between Portugal and the UK and some other countries is, effectively, no more than cosmetic.

What Portugal has failed to do, which the UK is at least attempting to address, is to reduce the level of drug related crime by targeting drug users committing criminal offences to support their habit rather than drug users/addicts as such - according to the BRC, for example, 65% of retail crime (shop-lifting) is drug related.

The success of Portugal's action is highly debatable:

Although the number of drug users appears to be down this is hardly surprising as they are no longer being targeted by the police, and the increased numbers getting treatment (often compulsorily) could well reflect not only increased usage but increased addiction as well - hardly the intended result. Similarly, although "the British Crime Survey noted last year that cannabis use was at it's lowest level in a decade" they also noted a 21% increase in drug offences from the previous year.

Illicit drug usage in Portugal in the 16 to 18 age bracket went up from 12.3% in 1999 to 17.7% in 2003 according to official figures (although the figures from a voluntary survey by ESPAD show a 14% rate for 2007). Hardly a drop in numbers in a key age bracket.

The amount of drug related crime in Portugal is also unclear - one Portugese study shows an increase of 9% over the same period.

Sorry, Brad, but it is not that simple nor, even if it was, is it all good news.

[Brad the Impala]

I'll stick with the research of the Cato Institute, published this year, which looked into the changes in Portugal since the decriminalization in 2001. It stated in it's summary:

"The data show that, judged by virtually every metric, the Portuguese decriminalization framework has been a resounding success. Within this success lie self-evident lessons that should guide drug policy debates around the world."


Also how anyone can state that the difference in the drug laws between the UK and Portugal is "no more than cosmetic" is beyond me. To repeat, in Portugal the possession of a small amount of drugs for personal use, covering the spectrum from grass to heroin, is not a criminal offense. In the UK it is a criminal offense. Pretty clear difference of approach and consequence.

Handcuffs may be just cosmetic to you..................

[cdnmatt]

Let's come back to this thread in a year, and see how Mexico is looking, since they recently did the same as Portugal and decriminalized all drugs.

PS. Some of you guys seem to get all flustered and dumbfounded when you find out prostitutes are taking drugs. Well, no shit... then you condemn their drug use, but have no problem with them selling you their bodies. Go figure...

[Dodger]

Can any of you Suneeites give us a factual update regarding which bars are open and which are closed in the Plaza. Specifically, Jimmy James who closed their doors last May - have they re-opened? Are Sundance and Villa Rouge really closed on a 30 day police order - or is this just another BIB calamity? Is Tom Yum open or not? How about the others, e.g., Nice Boys, Look Bar, Happy Boys, etc., etc.

Regarding the topic at hand...

I see the increase in these rehearsed and correographed calamities referred to as " raids " as being nothing more than the effects of the current economic conditions. The less tea money there is to be funneled along the corrupt food-chain, the more pressure that is applied downward. Downward meaning, the BIB at the top of the rock (most likely comfortable residents of Bangkok) put the pressure on their local leutenants - who in turn put the squeeze on those pot-bellied BIB street clowns - who in-turn put the squeeze on the bar owners. When the bar owners simply don't have the baht to contribute, the bad news trickles to the top and the whole process gets escalated and the raids begin.

I would view this as being comical except for the fact that the real victums, being the drug addicts themselves, don't stand a dogs chance in hell. They are mearly movable pawns caught up in a web of greed and corruption sponsored by none other than their own legal system. Understanding of course, that there is nothing "legal "about any of it, and any reference to the term"system" would have to be traced back to the swamps of Bangkok back when it was nothing more than a huge floating market where a 10 year old girl adorned with lipstick and a tight pair of panties could be bartered away for a few sacks of rice and a bottle of cheap whiskey. This is the "System." This "System" is nothing new within the framework of Thai culture, it's just getting more pronounced with the proliferation of street drugs and the advent of the modern media.

Mark, if you're reading this, you shouldn't feel the need to be defensive about your bar being raided, because it's not the bars that get raided that fall the shortest of being LEGAL - it's the bars that constantly avoid getting raided that operate in the darkest of shadows.

[Wesley]

oops miread your post, but although I havn't looked I am sure the rabbit was as quck as ever,

Wes

[Surfcrest]

I would view this as being comical except for the fact that the real victums, being the drug addicts themselves, don't stand a dogs chance in hell. They are mearly movable pawns caught up in a web of greed and corruption sponsored by none other than their own legal system. Understanding of course, that there is nothing "legal "about any of it, and any reference to the term"system" would have to be traced back to the swamps of Bangkok back when it was nothing more than a huge floating market where a 10 year old girl adorned with lipstick and a tight pair of panties could be bartered away for a few sacks of rice and a bottle of cheap whiskey. This is the "System." This "System" is nothing new within the framework of Thai culture, it's just getting more pronounced with the proliferation of street drugs and the advent of the modern media.

No Dodger, on this one I can't agree (sorry). This isn't a problem that is prostitution specific, nor is it Thai specific.
Opium probably wouldn't have been too far away from the pretty "swamps of bangkok' picture that you described for us, but I'm not seeing the direct connection unless there is an assumption that pimps or the reputable bar owners are feeding the demand. Quite often the "drug" thing, especially yaba is something that comes with money in their pocket, boredom and the pressures from their friends (prostitutes or otherwise). In societies where there isn't access to drugs, you'll sometimes find drug substitutes like people sniffing glue. It's doubtful you would find some "glue pusher" capitalizing on people's misfortune in that environment. To a large extent it comes back to supply and demand, simple as that. If people want something, they'll get it or someone else will figure out how to get it and sell it. The key is to get to people before the drugs do. In this respect the anti smoking campaigns of the last 40 years or more have really driven the percentage of smokers down considerably so there may be hope. Maybe not for the additcs we already have, but for the future ones before they become one. The drug addicts aren't victims and the last thing they need is our excuses for their having fallen into this rut.

Honestly when I was there I saw none of this kind of thing, I may be a bit naive about such things as I generally don't look for the worst anyway and try to find what good I can in things.


We know that already: you were a friend of George.

[naklua]

Closing the bars will contribute nothing to solve Thailand's drug problem. Education (the public schools, especially the rual ones, should not be allowed to call themselves schools) and then better employment opportunities and thus better wages would. This in turn would destroy Thailand's feudal patronage system and therefore it will not happen in the foreseeable future. Another, rather short to mid term approach would be to target the drug dealers and their higher ups. As these are often the same people displaying public outrage regarding the druggies and prosecuting them, this will not happen, too. Therefore the status quo will remain, only the non-VIP drug users will be punished.
The current raids targeting Farang owned gay businesses might be motivated by xenophobia and homophobia - common not only in Thailand. EVen if these negative attitudes are seldom shown openly (towards Farangs), they of course exists. And no, most countries do not fare better in this regard, actually there is a considerable number of countries being worse (not only) in this regard.
At the end of the day some people will lose their jobs in the bar scene, and I dont think the will change and pursue a successfull career in another more "legitimate" field of employment. As a matter of fact the chances are higher that a considerable number of them will change for the worse and enlarge the number of petty and not-so-petty criminals in Thailand. Eventually the country will be worse of: Less employment, less foreign exchange, maybe even more criminals and more drugs.
If Sunee Plaza should be closed, eventually, they might not stop there and then turn to Boystown - that the Boystown bars are regarded as more legitimate due to less under age youths working there and maybe less drug use, would not help. What counts is that they work in the field of prostitution, too. Therefore they are vulnerable and subject to the authorities' discretion (read: abuse). In Boystown there are very few customers at the moment. This reduces the money the BiB receive. This in turn might enhance the chance of harrassment and maybe even bar closures.
Maybe it is also a good ploy to turn the public's attention away from the real problems this country has got.

[Rene]

This in turn might enhance the chance of harrassment and maybe even bar closures.

This is already happening. Mark at Krazy Dragon has been caught in flagrante delicto with an UNDERAGE customer! I am glad that the BIB are finally beginning to enforce all of the laws! As the Western NGOs, and even lots of those on this board never tire of telling us "The law is the law." Now Mark is fretting he will be closed down for 90 days. While Mark was distracted with all his other obsessions, they simply found something else that blindsided him. If all the laws were enforced, only the police would be left outside the prison walls!

I am still waiting for what will be the all time block buster in this regard: the enforcement against a person offering himself for money or favours, prostitution, which is against the law in Thailand. I have heard farang say that it will never happen, and that is exactly why I am sure it is just around the corner.

I stay up late at night praying for the enforcement of all laws. After all, it's for our own good, or at least all the oracles here tell me that. :rolling:

[Brad the Impala]

In Boystown there are very few customers at the moment. This reduces the money the BiB receive. This in turn might enhance the chance of harrassment and maybe even bar closures.

According to your theory of diminishing returns for BIB from reduced numbers of customers, closing bars would then deliver no return at all! Hardly overwhelming motivation for action, if you have judged the motivation correctly.




Maybe it is also a good ploy to turn the public's attention away from the real problems this country has got.

Yes, I am sure that the vast majority of the Thai public, from Surin to Songkla, are on the edge of their seats watching events in Sunny with fascination!

[Wesley]

SUV

SUW

I'll stick with the research of the Cato Institute

Somehow I thought you might. This is actually the reaearch of one man (Glenn Greenwald). Maybe if you read a lttle more widely you would get a broader view of things - but probably not.

While much is made, for example, of the reduction in the number of casual cannabis users the marked increase in the number of those becoming addicted to hard drugs is virtually ignored apart from somehow being twisted to become a "success" as some of these addicts are getting treatment (as many were before).


Also how anyone can state that the difference in the drug laws between the UK and Portugal is "no more than cosmetic" is beyond me. To repeat, in Portugal the possession of a small amount of drugs for personal use, covering the spectrum from grass to heroin, is not a criminal offense. In the UK it is a criminal offense. Pretty clear difference of approach and consequence.

Most things are beyond you, Brad. The terminology is markedly different, but if you were to actually look at the detail of the consequences and overlook the "cosmetics" you would see that there is very little difference in consequence. Possession of small amounts of certain drugs for personal use is effectively permissible in both countries; those violating this repeatedly (primarily addicts) are held in custody and taken before a local court (UK) or a "dissuasion commission" (Portugal) where the usual sentence is custodial, including compulsory treatment.

The difference is primarily how it is dressed up, nothing more, and that is overlooking any differences between Portugal's drug problem and that in any other country - to imagine that every country has the same problem on any level (demographics, availability, culture, resources, etc) and that a "one size fits all" solution is the answer is so naive that it raises doubts over the credibility of anything Greenwald said.

[Dodger]

Rene Wrote:


I stay up late at night praying for the enforcement of all laws. After all, it's for our own good,

Hey, speak for yourself...

I'm staying up late at night here in Chicago praying for the next 3 weeks to fly by so I can get back to LOS and get laid. After all, it's for my own good.

[rincondog]

Why do people get so upset and start the old "the sky is falling" routine because a few bars are raided. This has been happening for years. There are still plenty of bars open. Are you actually afraid you won't be able to find a trick, boy, boi, prostitute, friend, whatever the term you want to use.

[Beachlover]

Rene Wrote:


I stay up late at night praying for the enforcement of all laws. After all, it's for our own good,

Hey, speak for yourself...

I'm staying up late at night here in Chicago praying for the next 3 weeks to fly by so I can get back to LOS and get laid. After all, it's for my own good.

LOL

[Brad the Impala]

[quote="Brad the Impala":3bastvlx]I'll stick with the research of the Cato Institute

Somehow I thought you might. This is actually the reaearch of one man (Glenn Greenwald). Maybe if you read a lttle more widely you would get a broader view of things - but probably not.[/quote:3bastvlx]

It is research commissioned by the Cato Institute specifically into the effect of Drug Decriminalization in Portugal. The United Nations Office of Drug Control took it seriously enough to comment after it's publication that "Decriminalization appears to be working".




While much is made, for example, of the reduction in the number of casual cannabis users the marked increase in the number of those becoming addicted to hard drugs is virtually ignored apart from somehow being twisted to become a "success" as some of these addicts are getting treatment (as many were before).

The figures from both the Cato Institute and from the earlier Beckley Foundation Report note significant reductions in hard drug use. Beckley noted the reduction in heroin referrals, as percentage of drug users, fell from 33% to 15% between 2001 and 2005. Most significantly imho, are the numbers of addicts now on treatment, up to 24,000 from 6,000, the proportion of heroin users who inject has fallen from 45% to 17%, and drug addicts now provide only 20% of Portugal's HIV cases, down from 56%.

What Portugal is doing is not a soft option on drugs. The intent, and it appears the effect, of decriminalizing drugs, was to remove the most efficient barrier to users seeking treatment. That was the fear of arrest and punishment. They are no longer arrested or punished. And they are now being treated, and it seems that society is the better for it.

I only entered this thread to balance generally held assumptions that decriminalizing is automatically dangerous. I am not going to continue a debate, as I can't say it any better than the Director of Drug Policy at UCLA said of the experience in Portugal, "I think we can learn that we should stop being reflexively opposed when someone else does [decriminalize] and should take seriously the possibility that anti-user enforcement isn't having much influence on our drug consumption,".





[quote="Brad the Impala":3bastvlx]Also how anyone can state that the difference in the drug laws between the UK and Portugal is "no more than cosmetic" is beyond me. To repeat, in Portugal the possession of a small amount of drugs for personal use, covering the spectrum from grass to heroin, is not a criminal offense. In the UK it is a criminal offense. Pretty clear difference of approach and consequence.

Most things are beyond you, Brad. The terminology is markedly different, but if you were to actually look at the detail of the consequences and overlook the "cosmetics" you would see that there is very little difference in consequence. Possession of small amounts of certain drugs for personal use is effectively permissible in both countries; those violating this repeatedly (primarily addicts) are held in custody and taken before a local court (UK) or a "dissuasion commission" (Portugal) where the usual sentence is custodial, including compulsory treatment.[/quote:3bastvlx]

As the experience in Portugal shows, it is the very criminalizing that is a significant deterrent to seeking treatment. There is for example no possibility of imprisonment for possession of personal amounts of Class One drugs in Portugal, while in the UK there is a potential for seven years in prison!





The difference is primarily how it is dressed up, nothing more, and that is overlooking any differences between Portugal's drug problem and that in any other country - to imagine that every country has the same problem on any level (demographics, availability, culture, resources, etc) and that a "one size fits all" solution is the answer is so naive that it raises doubts over the credibility of anything Greenwald said.

No one has been so "naive" as to claim this, and your desire to mock a claim that hasn't been made is merely a diversionary grand standing tactic worthy of a soapbox orator only. What Greenwald did write in summary was:

"The Portuguese have seen the benefits of
decriminalization, and therefore there is no
serious political push in Portugal to return to
a criminalization framework. Drug policymakers
in the Portuguese government are virtually
unanimous in their belief that decriminalization
has enabled a far more effective
approach to managing PortugalтАЩs addiction
problems and other drug-related afflictions.
Since the available data demonstrate that they
are right, the Portuguese model ought to be
carefully considered by policymakers around
the world."

Of course there will always be those, driven by fear and prejudice, who will not accept what is visible to others, but prefer to remain in ignorance, desparately grasping to the status quo.

It is research commissioned by the Cato Institute

Not now, Cato!

[Rene]

Of course there will always be those, driven by fear and prejudice, who will not accept what is visible to others, but prefer to remain in ignorance, desparately grasping to the status quo.

Exactly Brad!
For twenty years now The Economist has been urging legalization of drugs.
http://www.economist.com/opinion/displa ... d=13237193 (http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13237193)

We need legalization which goes even beyond decriminalization. All other options have proved to be a total failure.

For twenty years now The Economist has been urging legalization of drugs.
http://www.economist.com/opinion/displa ... d=13237193 (http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13237193)

We need legalization which goes even beyond decriminalization. All other options have proved to be a total failure.I see homintern is back!

For twenty years now The Economist has been urging legalization of drugs.
http://www.economist.com/opinion/displa ... d=13237193 (http://www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13237193)

We need legalization which goes even beyond decriminalization. All other options have proved to be a total failure.I see homintern is back!

You would know, wouldn't you? Hmmm, pet?

3:00 am in Texas right now...can't sleep again?

3:00 am in Texas right now...can't sleep again?Thanks for the concern. My brother-in-law got me some work stacking shelves at the local HEB and I'm working nights. Just got in.
But merchant banking it aint, so I think of myself as unemployed. :occasion9:

Hope your managing to save some of the money to get back soon its not the same with out you wandering around Shaking the dead in Pattaya.If there's a Thailand to go back to after The Big Event I'll be there.

The United Nations Office of Drug Control took it seriously enough to comment after it's publication that "Decriminalization appears to be working".

Good editing, Brad. Presumably you mean the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime. That was part of a comment by Walter Kemp, who is not in a senior position and who also added that "legalization is not the answer". The Director of the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), Antonio Maria Costa, took a rather more realistic and broader view (http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/2009/06/give_drug_users_a_break.html) asking ""Why unleash a drug epidemic in the developing world for the sake of libertarian arguments made by a pro-drug lobby that has the luxury of access to drug treatment?"


I can't say it any better than the Director of Drug Policy at UCLA said of the experience in Portugal .....

You mean Mark Kleiman, who also just happens to work for the Cato Institute? Who also went on to say that he did not consider Portugal a realistic model for the U.S. because of differences in size and culture between the two countries?


..... users seeking treatment ..... are no longer arrested or punished. And they are now being treated, and it seems that society is the better for it.

Why does it "seem that society is the better for it"? The numbers becoming addicted to hard drugs have increased, the use of cannabis is falling world-wide, not just in Portugal, and drug-related crime in Portugal has not been reduced. The addicts who were dying from drug overdoses and who caught HIV from infected needles are certainly better off, but "society" as a whole?


[quote="Gone Fishing":1i2kg9v7]To imagine ....that a "one size fits all" solution is the answer is so naive that it raises doubts over the credibility of anything Greenwald said.
No one has been so "naive" as to claim this ..... What Greenwald did write in summary was:
" .....the Portuguese model ought to be carefully considered by policymakers around the world."[/quote:1i2kg9v7]

"No one"? Except Greenwald?

If your priority is to help the addicts then de-criminalization is probably as good an answer as any - paying them a large allowance to cover their drug habit (over ┬г15,000 per user per year, according to figures from the British Crime Survey) as well as a generous living allowance would also reduce the amount of drug related crime. Of course, "those driven by fear and prejudice" may disagree.

a large allowance to cover their drug habit (over ┬г15,000 per user per year, according to figures from the British Crime Survey).Illegal drugs are only expensive because they are illegal. I can think of very few British police who believe that enforcing the drug laws aginst users serves any purpose whatsoever.

[Brad the Impala]

Well I live in a society where they actually have taken drugs use out of the criminal circuit, and I think we are definitely on the right track.

And where might that be - even Christiania limits legal drug use and sales to soft drugs?

Glad that you now realise that there is at least one country where this has happened.

[Surfcrest]

Illegal drugs are only expensive because they are illegal.

Perhaps, from the front end perspective of a buyer. The overall costs are another matter. The user and their family, the victims of drug related crime and their familes, hospitals and the health care system (if you have one), the taxpayer.

The user and their familyNo different to alcoholism or gambling or for that matter the closeted homosexual in some cases.

the victims of drug related crime and their familesYou mean to support the habit, the cost of which has declined dramatically because the cost of drugs has dropped?
hospitals and the health care system (if you have one)So does smoking, obesity and almost anything else where choice is involved.
the taxpayerAs the cost of locking someone up is around $50K+ a year, I dispute that.

[Surfcrest]

No different to alcoholism or gambling.
Agreed, but the drugs incapacitate significantly more than alcoholism or gambling

or for that matter the closeted homosexual in some cases.
What?

You mean to support the habit, the cost of which has declined dramatically because the cost of drugs has dropped?
Crackheads are killing people for a ten dollar rock.

So does smoking, obesity and almost anything else where choice is involved.
Agreed to a certain extent, but your comparison isn't even.

As the cost of locking someone up is around $50K+ a year, I dispute that.
Dispute it all you wish, its your own suggestion you dispute. I would never suggest locking them up. Hitting them on the side of a head with a shovel, perhaps. You need to understand why people go in this direction and address these folks beforehand. Once they've made the leap to heavy drugs, life doesn't last long.

or for that matter the closeted homosexual in some cases.What?You mean closeted homosexuals aren't sometimes blackmailed in your part of the world? How fortunate for them. Unusual, too.
I would never suggest locking them up. Hitting them on the side of a head with a shovel, perhaps. You need to understand why people go in this direction and address these folks beforehand. Once they've made the leap to heavy drugs, life doesn't last long.You are a fool, so I'll leave you to it.

[Rene]

[quote="Copper Pheel":t9l6ieu7]or for that matter the closeted homosexual in some cases.What?You mean closeted homosexuals aren't sometimes blackmailed in your part of the world? How fortunate for them. Unusual, too.
I would never suggest locking them up. Hitting them on the side of a head with a shovel, perhaps.[/quote:t9l6ieu7]

Copper Pheel, forget about Surfcrest. He was hit in the head with a shovel when he was young and has had a hard time getting a grip on reality ever since.

And, you will understand Gone Fishing better if you realize that he learned everything he knows from Professor Irwin Corey.

Copper Pheel, forget about Surfcrest. He was hit in the head with a shovel when he was young and has had a hard time getting a grip on reality ever since.I have no time for viogilantes or those who think they know better than the rule of law.

[naklua]

In Boystown there are very few customers at the moment. This reduces the money the BiB receive. This in turn might enhance the chance of harrassment and maybe even bar closures.

According to your theory of diminishing returns for BIB from reduced numbers of customers, closing bars would then deliver no return at all! Hardly overwhelming motivation for action, if you have judged the motivation correctly. .

Your conclusion is right from a Farang's / homo economicus point of view. Thais tend to follow another approach sometimes: If times get thougher, squeeze the remaining customers as hard as you can to try to maintain your turnover. On a short time horizon this works, but of course in the (very near) end you will go bankrupt as you have slaugthered your cashcows. But then dont blame your own greed / stupidity, but blame the foreigners. At least the police have got their (not always meager) salaries. One or the other police general might have to forego his new Benz / BMW.





Maybe it is also a good ploy to turn the public's attention away from the real problems this country has got.

Yes, I am sure that the vast majority of the Thai public, from Surin to Songkla, are on the edge of their seats watching events in Sunny with fascination!

You are right - this assumption of mine might have gone to far. Therefore the "maybe" at the start.
On the other hand Thaksin's then interior minister Mr. Purachai was very popular on a "moral campaign", which was also directed against the Pattaya bars (gay and straight ones, but of course the gay ones got hit harder).

Has this thread turned into a Lookalike contest?

http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1434 ... http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00012/dodd_12327t.jpg

......................... Ken Dodd .................................................. ............ Irwin Corey

I have no time for viogilantes or those who think they know better than the rule of law.

Rather an odd statement coming from someone who has just said that he (and most of the British police he "can think of") think exactly that.

[witchhunt]

Is this catawampuscat, not another one of his name Hope your managing to save some of the money to get back soon its not the same with out you wandering around Shaking the dead in Pattaya.

Well earwig or LMTU, who is shaking you if your friend cat is not here to do it.

Maybe you will have to rely on Thai real estate salesmen to do it for you

[catawampuscat]

Witchhunt sounds like he has been around for a while and knows some of the characters
that dwell on this forum.. I am sure some sarcasm was used when referring to this poster
as a friend of bottom etal. I have no issue with bottoming per se but also no use for the
bottom of the barrel..
I just posted about the honesty and high regard I have for several posters (Dodger & Rainwalker)
but at the other extreme are those posters who enjoy shit stirring, abhor honesty and relish lies,
toot their own horns until you are deaf and just don't understand why so many people find them
beneath contempt..
No doubt this will stir up more shit and lies and pompous self aggrandizing and serve to draw
attention to the most pathetic and most often banned farang on this forum, but alas that is the price
to pay, unless the moderators step in :notworthy: and do their thing once again..

[dab69]

who would bother
acually READING all this crap?

who would bother
acually READING all this crap?

Bullshitters of course, the board is full of them

[quote="Copper Pheel":3gc68e0e]I have no time for viogilantes or those who think they know better than the rule of law.Rather an odd statement coming from someone who has just said that he (and most of the British police he "can think of") think exactly that.[/quote:3gc68e0e]I should have added for the imbecile population of Pattaya led by Gone Fisting "and seriously propose doing soimething about it." The police who I mentioned nevertheless uphold the law, however futile they may regard it.

A group of government-appointed drug experts will call for a nationwide network of "shooting galleries" to provide injectable heroin for hardened drug addicts across the country.

A pioneering trial programme prescribing heroin to long-term addicts has shown "major benefits" in cutting crime and reducing street sales of drugs. Results of the programme are to be presented at a conference in London tomorrow. An expert group set up by the National Treatment Agency for Substance Misuse to assess the programme has concluded that the approach should be adopted nationwide.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 86847.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/clamour-grows-for-heroin-on-the-nhs-1786847.html)

[maisoui]

I expect this is the BBC version of the same story.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8255418.stm

[Rene]

I expect this is the BBC version of the same story.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8255418.stm

Oh my word maisoui! Now you've done it!

If Surfcrest sees this article he will go wild with rage and we'll have to use the tranquilizer gun on him. You know how Surfcrest hates to be confronted by the facts!

So will they all be shooting up on SUNEE PLAZA or have you all just lost the fucking plot...................

[Surfcrest]

If Surfcrest sees this article he will go wild with rage and we'll have to use the tranquilizer gun on him. You know how Surfcrest hates to be confronted by the facts!

First of all sweetie, you don't know me, but perhaps I'll let you shine my shoes sometime. I can only guess that you and "witchhunt" were once known as somebody else, you've either humiliated yourselves enough to have to change your names or you've been kicked out of here before. Niether of you are smart enough to be either "the Colonel" or miserable enough to be "boygeenyus (andyinoz could easily qualify).

Next, I read the article...not just the headline. Nice to see one of the junkies saved a little money, I hope he's paying taxes on his new part time job to support this program. They also don't mention where in Switzerland they are growing the poppies to make all this wonderful free heroin.

"The remainder, observed by nurses, injected themselves with diamorphine - unadulterated heroin - imported from Switzerland."

We can tell from your writing your a ham shank............

[springco]

First of all sweetie, you don't know me, but perhaps I'll let you shine my shoes sometime.

Niether of you are smart enough to be either... blah, blah, blah

blah, blah blah... this wonderful free heroine.


Surfcrest, before you expect people to shine your shoes, may I suggest you learn how to spell, you pompous ass.

A pioneering trial programme prescribing heroin to long-term addicts has shown "major benefits" in cutting crime and reducing street sales of drugs.

I wonder if those "benefits" include the ┬г1.6 billion in benefits (http://www.google.co.th/search?q=uk+drug+addicts+on+welfare+350%2C000&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a) being given to the 350,000 heroin and crack addicts in the UK who are unable to work due to their addiction.

[Brad the Impala]

[quote="Copper Pheel":1r9s7eb5]A pioneering trial programme prescribing heroin to long-term addicts has shown "major benefits" in cutting crime and reducing street sales of drugs.

I wonder if those "benefits" include the ┬г1.6 billion in benefits (http://www.google.co.th/search?q=uk+drug+addicts+on+welfare+350%2C000&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a) being given to the 350,000 heroin and crack addicts in the UK who are unable to work due to their addiction.[/quote:1r9s7eb5]

Oh dear, you are believing that what is reported in the tabloid newspapers is fact!

What the survey, on which the story in the Daily Mail was based, actually said was that if there are 350,000 addicts(there were only 267,000 estimated on benefits in July 2008) and if they all received the maximum benefits, then the the annual cost would be ┬г1.6 million.

Perhaps you would prefer to lock them all up, except that that would cost in excess of ┬г7 billion, if there were the capacity!

Was it the tabloids that informed you also that African Americans didn't have African origins, or that there were no Paratroopers in the Australian Army?

I was in Sunee Plaza on 08 September and saw NO RAID whatsoever. I was there from 9.45 until 11.00 pm, when I the ventured into Crazy Dragon.

I was also there the following evening, and spent some time in WUNDERBAR before crossing the SOI to Corner bar where I stayed for half an hour. I then went to GOOD BOYS at 10.30 ish, and spent 45 mins there before offing a guy there. The Mamasan arranged a room at RS Rooms in the same soi for 300B.

The next evening I went back to CORNER BAR and then to EUROBOYS, where I had 2 drinkies but decided not to off that night. I then went to the upstairs bar M BAR and offed there. Room was also as RS ROOMS for 300B.

KAOS - I cannot remember if open or not.

KBOYS - SAME SAME, though on my last visit disliked their renovations, and their tired boys.

VIOLET HOUS - my favourite bar has closed. such a shame shame shame. SO many cuties I offed from here in times past.

HOLIDAY 2 - another of my favourite hot bars - closed, but has been for some time.

VILLA ROUGE - open, had one drink. SO SO.

Many of the beer bars in Sunee were absent of customers. But the irritating and usually tired and old looking 'hosts' propped on bars stools outside provides a disincentive to enter, as does the queeny abuse from some of these boys when you say you do not wish to enter. I remember one of theses boys who was a hot hot boy in KBOYS many years ago - his time as a cute gog go boy is over, and his new occupation is as a washed up old (at 24??) and bitter boy at host bar, next to EUROBOYS.

Also visited MIC MY bar the following evening, but the boys were on the most part ugly and unmotivated. Also the GO GO next door to MIC MY, whatever the name, aslo BORING.

Same evening returned to GOOD BOYS - and offed another guy. This is the only bar I really enjoyed and the boys so so cute. Same deal at RS ROOMS.

Next evening went to Jomtein Plaza and an entertaing evening at THE VENUE. Great show, and very pleasant MC hosting and singing. Also visted BONDI BAR, so pleasant, and nice sea breeze.

As for massage The only place worthwhile in all of PATTAYA is TBMI The THAI BLIND MASSAGE INSTITUTE, in Jomtien Plaza. Thai massage 150B for 1 hour. Ask for SOMMAI.


So, according to my eagle eyes, Dears, there were NO bar closures as a result of the "supposed" sunee Raid, which I never witnessed. Soundz like BULLSHIT TO ME, as most of the posts on this tired board are these days.

By the way I did not stay at my condo at Metro Jomtien, as It has been leased long term. Instead stayed at VT5, very very nice indeed. Altthough I still love the beach further down outside Metro Jomtien Condotel.

[andrewcraig]

Was it the tabloids that informed you also that African Americans didn't have African origins, or that there were no Paratroopers in the Australian Army?

I am interested in the Paratroopers reference . but cannot find it

Would you please give a link to where it is

I am interested in the Paratroopers reference . but cannot find it. Would you please give a link to where it is http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=australian+army+paratroopers

Oh dear, you are believing that what is reported in the tabloid newspapers is fact!

Was it the tabloids that informed you also that African Americans didn't have African origins, or that there were no Paratroopers in the Australian Army?

My patience, Brad, along with your recollection of what I have said, is exhausted.

I deliberately posted a link giving a list of sources for the survey and for the subsequent debate in Parliament, which was later reported in a number of newspapers (including the Daily Mail) to give a balanced view.

I have never said that "African Americans didn't have African origins" or anything remotely like it - what I said was that the term was incorrect as not all "African Americans" came from Africa, and that a number of those coming from the Caribbean (many of whom are of mixed race and mixed ethnic origin) disliked the use of the term.

I have never said that "there were no Paratroopers in the Australian Army". What I said in a series of posts concerning technical terms which you and others clearly did not understand, was that "the ADF has no unit "labeled" as "paratroopers"" which is totally different - 3RAR is an infantry battalion with an airborne/parachute capability, which is very different in terms of role, equipment and orbat to, for example, 2 and 3 Para (UK).

A couple of your recent posts were interesting, so I took you out of your isolation in my "ignore" box; I was wrong. You are still the lying, ignorant little turd you have always been.

I have never said that "African Americans didn't have African origins" or anything remotely like it - what I said was that the term was incorrect as not all "African Americans" came from Africa, and that a number of those coming from the Caribbean (many of whom are of mixed race and mixed ethnic origin) disliked the use of the term.

Errr...no. This is what you actually said:


many labelled African Americans have no African ancestry at all and hail from the Caribbean.

many labelled African Americans have no African ancestry at all and hail from the Caribbean.

Actually if one wants to quibble about it, all mankind originated from the African continent, we just developed different characteristics/features over the many thousands of years after the first tribes started trekking and settling on other landmasses.......

:cheers:

many labelled African Americans have no African ancestry at all and hail from the Caribbean.

Actually if one wants to quibble about it, all mankind originated from the African continent, we just developed different characteristics/features over the many thousands of years after the first tribes started trekking and settling on other landmasses.......
:cheers:

Scientists believed that they had discovered that all human originated in parts of East Africa, because it was only that the early primates appear to have evolved into early anthropoids. Admittedly, that have also been various primate finds in Asia, some of which are even older than the African specimens. But the Asian representatives do not appear to have evolved any further. Recently, however, younger fossils have been found in the areas of Pakistan that are only about 30 million to 23 million years old, and which, in contrast to previous discoveries, could have evolved toward anthropoids.

It is not a scientifically known fact as to where exactly man originated from. Scientist use the bones and artefacts to try to determine which specimens are the oldest in the world. Many scientists agree that the oldest in the world are from East Africa; however, other scientists will argue that they are from Asia. So, the answer is not 100% true as of yet. There are only speculations as to where man originated from.

Also, the cradle of CIVILIZATION appears to be Iran.............

Errr...no. What I actually said can be found in full, for those with nothing worthwhile to do, unexpurgated and unedited, here (http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/gay-thailand/farangs-getting-pissed-the-word-t18207-45.html?hilit=caribbean#p185785).

A tedious thread where I pre-empted Sanook and Pattaya Male's comments here, asking Brad and BB "Just how far back do you and BB want to trace ancestry? ...... Why not go a bit further, and call us all "Africans" as apparently that's where we all originated! Most of those from the Caribbean who I know would be far from pleased to be called "Africans"."

It was also the thread where BB disagreed with Bob's quite rational point that "I'd guess people from Thailand are Thais! Simple enough, isn't it?", with "Not really...if you are aware that Thailand is a multi-cultural and multi-racial society.Perhaps you don't, though." (BB's full post).

Having decided that People from Thailand were not Thais, BB went on to explain that there were no "White Americans": ""White American" is not a common phrase because it is meaningless. You do, however, find Italian-Americans, Polish-Americans, Jewish-Americans, Greek-Americans, etc., etc..." (again, BB's full post). I am sure that will be a relief to those who were wary of the KKK, WPN, NSM and the many other White American movements.

Bizarre. Why BB would want to highlight a thread where he made some of his most stupid comments is beyond me (as are many of his utterances).

As stupid as saying that Caribbean blacks have no African blood whatsoever? Amazing!

[Beachlover]

My patience, Brad, along with your recollection of what I have said, is exhausted.

Thank goodness for that... did your pathetic desire to scream "I'm right and you're wrong!" in all situations get exhausted too?



I deliberately posted a link giving a list of sources for the survey and for the subsequent debate in Parliament...

I have never said that.... what I said was that the term...

Could you imagine sitting at a bar listening to this finger wagging dinosaur? He must be the guy everyone groans, "oh no, here comes ______ How do we shut him up?", at first sight.



I have never said that "there were no Paratroopers in the Australian Army". What I said in a series of posts concerning technical terms which you and others clearly did not understand, was that "the ADF has no unit "labeled" as "paratroopers"" which is totally different - 3RAR is an infantry battalion with an airborne/parachute capability, which is very different in terms of role, equipment and orbat to, for example, 2 and 3 Para (UK).

Really mate, who gives a toss?

I said:


Australian paratroopers train for amphibious landings.


To, which you replied:


Maybe "we" did not realise that the ADF has no unit "labeled" as "paratroopers" either. Maybe "we" don't really have a clue what "we" are talking about.

Maybe you're a pathetic idiot. Australia does have a parachute infantry battalion... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_Battal ... Regiment.. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_Battalion,_Royal_Australian_Regiment..). Of course it's not labelled as "paratrooper"... that's what you call an individual.

So you have a neurotic desire to prove you're correct?... Even on the most irrelevant technicalities? Amazing!

all mankind originated from the African continent, we just developed different characteristics/features over the many thousands of years after the first tribes started trekking and settling on other landmasses.......

:cheers:


You mean like mental instability?

Thank god I have you folk to keep me on the straight and narrow, because these folks are claiming Humans are were GMO's engineered by aliens, in a region that was inhabited by the Sumerians in what is today modern day Iraq.

http://www.crystalinks.com/sumergods.html
http://www.crystalinks.com/dilmun.html

Now can I enjoy my morning coffee? :sunny:

You mean like mental instability?

Thank god I have you folk to keep me on the straight and narrow, because these folks are claiming Humans are were GMO's engineered by aliens, in a region inhabited by the Sumerian in modern day Iraq.

http://www.crystalinks.com/sumergods.html
http://www.crystalinks.com/dilmun.html

Now can I enjoy my morning coffee? :sunny:

Considering the available knowledge they had to work on back then it wasn't a bad theory. I wonder what they would have made of LMTU!......

:cheers:

[Diec]

Stop picking on Girl Friend!! Yes she's dumb as an ostrich, but aren't the majority of the people on this board trying to outdo each other?

If you read the last 10 posts, that is exactly what I said!

In the Middle Ages Gone Fisting would have been the leading theologian of the "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin" question. You can see why he's so insistent that he doesn't live "in" Pattaya but "near" Pattaya - even the bores of that fair town can't stand him and have ring-fenced the place to keep him out.

[Beachlover]

Stop picking on Girl Friend!! Yes she's dumb as an ostrich, but aren't the majority of the people on this board trying to outdo each other?

LOL

[naklua]

I was in Sunee Plaza on 08 September and saw NO RAID whatsoever. I was there from 9.45 until 11.00 pm, when I the ventured into Crazy Dragon.

That you did not see a raid on Sept. 8 might have got something to do with the fact that it happened on 7th of Sept.

Villa Rouge was closed yesterday - problems with the BiB. But the boys are not unemployed now, as the Villa Rouge's owner is also the owner of the former "Look" bar, which was yesterday re-opened under the name of "Playboys". The Villa Rouge boys now work there.

Really mate, who gives a toss?

Apparently the same "pathetic idiot" who raised the point that Australia had no Marines, who quotes Wiki as his only source for "a parachute infantry battalion" rather than any Australian military source, who has no idea that despite all the ugrades to the C130s and the work on the HUPRA system that the ADF has neither the capability to airlift a battalion nor the necessity (one of the reasons why 3 RAR are due to be re-roled from light infantry to mech infantry) and who keeps insisting on prolonging a debate about which he knows nothing.

The same "pathetic idiot" who posted a long list of what he considered the "attributes that make up your "value proposition"" in a thread concerning relationships in Thailand then admitted that he had "no experience" of even a "half-decent relationship" with anyone in Thailand.

The same "pathetic idiot" who, despite claiming to be a "cutie" in his "early twenties" who has never been here for "more than a week at a time", has nothing better to do than make considerably more posts here per day than me!

That seems to be the guy you're after!

[Bob]

Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic....

Don't you have something better to do? Do you have a life?

I wonder how a thread about a raid on Sunee Plaza became an argument on Australian military logistics. Was the raid conducted by the Australian infantry? Evolution in our time.
Amazing.

Don't you have something better to do? Do you have a life?

Not at this time of the morning.

I wonder how a thread about a raid on Sunee Plaza became an argument on Australian military logistics. Was the raid conducted by the Australian infantry? Evolution in our time.
Amazing.

Quite simple realy, when Gone Fisting contributes to a thread he alway turns it into a discussion on Toy Soldiers. :violent1: :violent1: :violent1:

[Brad the Impala]

Just for Gone Fishing and his "opinion" , disseminated to us as if written in tablets of stone on Mount Sinai, that there are "no paratroopers in the Australian army". Perhaps it's just a "labelling technicality" and these are really fairies falling from a christmas tree, but they look like paratroopers to me!

[youtube:3fmsehge]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC071fx9dQk[/youtube:3fmsehge]

[ceejay]

Nawww - that's just the Australian Marines on their day off :hello1:

[Beachlover]

Paratroopers? I thought they were more droplets of spit flying from Gone Fruity's mouth :hello1:

[Beachlover]

Nawww - that's just the Australian Marines on their day off :hello1:

I bet they're grateful to Gone Fruity for proving their existence.

Next he'll say Australia "technically" has flying saucers because that helicopter buzzing over my office last week is being assigned to fly Kang and Kodos around next week.

[Beachlover]

I wonder how a thread about a raid on Sunee Plaza became an argument on Australian military logistics. Was the raid conducted by the Australian infantry? Evolution in our time.
Amazing.

Easy...

- Someone called the British Marines in Big Trouble in Thailand ep 1 "Australian Marines".

- I said Australia doesn't have marines.

- Gone Fruity decided to prove her superior knowledge on the universe by saying in some convoluted and irrelevant way that Australia DOES have marines

- Brad gently called her a waste of space (words to that effect)

- Desperate to crown herself Queen of Correctness...Gone Fruity threw a tantrum and vomited more convoluted and irrelevant statements.

[dab69]

I have no time for viogilantes or those who think they know better than the rule of law.[/quote]


is there a rule of law in
faking your own death?

[Bob]

I must be insane for reading any of this. Or, perhaps, I'm just insane anyway.

In any event, what I need to know is this: Are there any Australian paratroopers of Carribean extraction who know anybody who is of slightly darker skin that might have African ancestry?

I must be insane for reading any of this. Or, perhaps, I'm just insane anyway.

In any event, what I need to know is this: Are there any Australian paratroopers of Carribean extraction who know anybody who is of slightly darker skin that might have African ancestry?

Yes, I think there are some living in the Chilean coastal town of Antofagasta. Perhaps some in Miramar, too.

[Brad the Impala]

I must be insane for reading any of this. Or, perhaps, I'm just insane anyway.

In any event, what I need to know is this: Are there any Australian paratroopers of Carribean extraction who know anybody who is of slightly darker skin that might have African ancestry?

very funny

[Beachlover]

I must be insane for reading any of this. Or, perhaps, I'm just insane anyway.

In any event, what I need to know is this: Are there any Australian paratroopers of Carribean extraction who know anybody who is of slightly darker skin that might have African ancestry?

Yes, I think there are some living in the Chilean coastal town of Antofagasta. Perhaps some in Miramar, too.

You need an "Australian Military Source" or Gone Fruity will call you a clueless liar who needs a nanny.