A future for Soi Pratuchai?

[BonTong]

But this means the social stigma of being a money boy (for Farang or for Thai customers) forces many Thai boys now in badly paid jobs. Where they have far less free time than with the other option. That must then also be true, not?

In Chiang Mai I'd say the majority of guys you will meet online are either students or have a job (might well be different in Pattaya). If they want some cash it's a sideline, not their main occupation. For the few that have opted for the full-time money boy lifestyle its usually not pretty and may well involve a bunch of illegal activities .

Much better work in seven and discreetly make a few extra $$ than join that downward spiral towards the jail, or worse.

Question: are some members still in contact with boys they offed 20 years ago, or even longer ago? These boys (now men) are now in their early 40s. How are they now making a living? Very curious to that.

Not 20 years but more than 15. Still see a few Soi twilight old hands back in their country homes. Once a hustler always a hustler, even if they are not selling themselves. Was just joking the other day about how many former giks now wear pink aprons!

[cdnmatt]

nice post Oliver. I think there's a few other variables at play too.

- Thais have become more modernized / Westernized, so family loyalty isn't quite what it once was. still very strong, but not quite as much as decades ago.

- Many will disagree with me, but middle class here has expanded greatly over the last 15 or so years. All that Gdp growth Thailand has enjoyed -- some of it has trickled down to even somchai selling somtam in the village. Hence, there's not as much of a need to prostitute yourself.

- probably most importantly, the stereotype of the farang has changed quite a bit over the decades. I would imagine back in say the vietnam war era, the stereotype was farangs were generally GIs who were young, healthy, good looking, had a pocket full of cash, and all the ambition in the world. Nowdays, I think it's changed into more of a 65yo fat, alcoholic guy living on a small pension, and wears a wife beater every day. Hence, ambition to rush down to Pattaya to get hitched with a farang has waned a little.

- Another one is the media in this country. They love to chastise foreigners for anything and everything wrong, and I'm uncertain if that was the case 30 or 40 years ago.

[fountainhall]

I would imagine back in say the vietnam war era, the stereotype was farangs were generally GIs who were young, healthy, good looking, had a pocket full of cash, and all the ambition in the world. Nowdays, I think it's changed into more of a 65yo fat, alcoholic guy living on a small pension, and wears a wife beater every day. Hence, ambition to rush down to Pattaya to get hitched with a farang has waned a little.

Interesting points in the last 2 posts. I'm not quite so sure about the Vietnam War, though, as it ended in 1973. I expect some of the GIs may have been after boys, but whilst girlie go-go bars had certainly started to sprout up, there were few if any gay go-go bars by then. Even in 1980 Bangkok had less than a handful. But the western clientele during the 1980s and 90s was certainly a lot younger on average than in more recent years.

[fountainhall]

I would imagine back in say the vietnam war era, the stereotype was farangs were generally GIs who were young, healthy, good looking, had a pocket full of cash, and all the ambition in the world. Nowdays, I think it's changed into more of a 65yo fat, alcoholic guy living on a small pension, and wears a wife beater every day. Hence, ambition to rush down to Pattaya to get hitched with a farang has waned a little.

Interesting points in the last 2 posts. I'm not quite so sure about the Vietnam War, though, as it ended in 1975. I expect some of the GIs may have been after boys, but whilst girlie go-go bars had certainly started to sprout up, there were few if any gay go-go bars by then. Even in 1980 Bangkok had less than a handful and I'm not sure if there was even one gogo bar in Pattaya - just a few host-type bars (but I am not sure of this). But the western clientele during the 1980s and 90s was certainly a lot younger on average than in more recent years.

[BonTong]

- Many will disagree with me, but middle class here has expanded greatly over the last 15 or so years. All that Gdp growth Thailand has enjoyed -- some of it has trickled down to even somchai selling somtam in the village. Hence, there's not as much of a need to prostitute yourself.

Absolutely agree!

- Another one is the media in this country. They love to chastise foreigners for anything and everything wrong, and I'm uncertain if that was the case 30 or 40 years ago.

The media has an enormous role - people are now much better informed than 15 years ago. Back then, out in the countryside many houses hardly had electricity, let alone TV sets. Now, even in remote villages TVs and satellite dishes are everywhere and many people have smart phones. Although the education system here may be lacking, people now have other sources of knowledge, from social media to Thai soaps. Older foreigners being seen together with young Thais (of either gender) is now viewed as somewhat distasteful. Especially when the latest raid on a girlie bar is broadcast live on TV!

[AsDaRa]

All that Gdp growth Thailand has enjoyed -- some of it has trickled down to even somchai selling somtam in the village. Hence, there's not as much of a need to prostitute yourself

But how can you live a middle class live from the average 10.000 baht salary that many Thais receive? At least this is about the most common salary I hear quoted on forums and from Thais (working in 7-11 or working in a shop or being a hotel receptionist, that is about your monthly salary).

You can't even have your own descent room with such a salary, but need to share.

Say you are married and your monthly income is 20.000 baht, can you live a middle class live with your wife and two kids from that in Pattatya? Maybe in the country side. But in a city?

[fountainhall]

Say you are married and your monthly income is 20.000 baht, can you live a middle class live with your wife and two kids from that in Pattatya? Maybe in the country side. But in a city?

Vast numbers of Thais do! But you are again bringing your own European sensitivities into a Thai context. Your ideas of class are certainly far from those of the average Thai.

For example, what is the approx. size in square meters of your house or apartment? The average Thai couple with one or two kids and climbing the economic ladder is moving into Bangkok and seeking apartments of around 35 - 40 sq. m. That is the average size of most apartments now being constructed as Bangkok continues to grow outwards. How many middle class families where you live would even consider that as the size for one decent bedroom?

Besides I can tell you that hotel receptionists generally earn a good deal more than employees at 7/11 stores!

[cdnmatt]

But how can you live a middle class live from the average 10.000 baht salary that many Thais receive? At least this is about the most common salary I hear quoted on forums and from Thais (working in 7-11 or working in a shop or being a hotel receptionist, that is about your monthly salary).

You can't even have your own descent room with such a salary, but need to share.

Say you are married and your monthly income is 20.000 baht, can you live a middle class live with your wife and two kids from that in Pattatya? Maybe in the country side. But in a city?

Ok, but flip that around. How well do you think a 7/11 clerk in say Canada or Germany lives? I doubt they're buying a brand new 3bdrm house, have a couple nice vehicles in the driveway, eat filet mignon when they want, and go on a couple nice vacations a year. Instead, I would imagine they're living in a small apartment with one or two other people, eat like garbage, and are struggline to make ends meet if not living off a credit card at the end of every month.

Things like 7/11 clerk and hotel receptionist are shit jobs with shit pay all over the world, and Thailand is no different.

[bobsaigon2]

Without reference to the GI's who used Thailand for R&R: Thirty or forty years ago (my first arrival was in 1972), most of the foreigners coming to Thailand for an extended stay were teachers, advisers, engineers, researchers, in short, people who were needed, people who could be utilized to improve the country in some way. Thus, farang were treated respectfully simply because they could be employed either for the greater good, or for the good of particular Thais. Then came the backpackers and no one felt compelled to give them much respect. And then, thanks to reduced air fares and to Thailand's growing reputation as the sex capital of SE Asia, there came a rather large percentage of foreigners who had not the slightest notion of contributing to the betterment of Thai society. So the Thai media chastise farang now because they are no longer "untouchable" (and because some deserve it), or simply because the Thai media don't have the freedom to chastise khon Thai. IMHO

[Manforallseasons]

Without reference to the GI's who used Thailand for R&R: Thirty or forty years ago (my first arrival was in 1972), most of the foreigners coming to Thailand for an extended stay were teachers, advisers, engineers, researchers, in short, people who were needed, people who could be utilized to improve the country in some way. Thus, farang were treated respectfully simply because they could be employed either for the greater good, or for the good of particular Thais. Then came the backpackers and no one felt compelled to give them much respect. And then, thanks to reduced air fares and to Thailand's growing reputation as the sex capital of SE Asia, there came a rather large percentage of foreigners who had not the slightest notion of contributing to the betterment of Thai society. So the Thai media chastise farang now because they are no longer "untouchable" (and because some deserve it), or simply because the Thai media don't have the freedom to chastise khon Thai. IMHO

This might be the most intuitive post about farangs in Thailand that I've read to date.