A future for Soi Pratuchai?

[fountainhall]

Fountainhall, Travel in the days before the internet.... Reading forums I cannot help but think that the internet just might be ruining travel; I mean the searching and guessing and hoping...and then the moment of arrival! I remember the Apollo went there nightly. I sometimes wish I had been a "butterfly" but I am not. I just got lucky when I finally stumbled upon Nirvana being Barbiery and while the numerous boys on stage didn't get my attention a waiter eventually did...

I don't know what the future holds for sex in Thailand...but I know that the warnings of its demise are clearly not true...someone is going to figure something out...

I entirely agree about the internet. It has made sex far easier - no question. But is it more fun now? I think not.

We must have at least seen each other in those Apollo days! I was very much the butterfly in my first years - perhaps too much so. But what gorgeous flowers!

As for the future, I agree there will be plenty of sex. I just believe it will not be the in-your-face commercial variety that we have got used to over the last few decades, In addition to the views of other Asians about Thais, as BonTong points out many Thais will steer clear of many other Asians.

[bobsaigon2]

You won't be seeing go-go bars here in Vietnam during your life time. Gay bars, yes. There are already some, discreet, though I imagine even the quiet ones need to satisfy the Vietnamese BIB every month. I could see gay businesses springing up in Cambodia; Philippines seems a bit far afield unless you're coming from the US and at present the boy bars there have not progressed beyond the total rip off business model. If Soi Twilight is demolished for the sake of a new hotel or office block, perhaps some of the bars would relocate to the Golden Cock/Nature Boys street (never can remember the name of that), but unfortunately it does look like the apps are going to replace the bars. However, no app can replace the excitement of walking into a go-go bar for the first time and seeing 20-30 young Adonises on stage.

[fountainhall]

Philippines seems a bit far afield unless you're coming from the US and at present the boy bars there have not progressed beyond the total rip off business model.

I used to visit Manila regularly in the 1980s when it was a fun place for gays - despite the horrors of the murdering Marcos dictatorship. Coco Banana and 690 Retiro Strip were must visit fun places. Although I have been back on only a few occasions since that decade, the commercial scene certainly seems to have gone far into reverse gear.

That said, Nirish recently posted here that he had a whale of a time in Cebu. The boys were falling off trees to have sex with him and not a peso requested. But that is not a commercial sex scene like the topic of this thread.

[TaoR]

I really don't know what the future holds for sex in Thailand...

I do know that I am going back next year and basically going to "finishing" up my visit to Japan (I have been twice before but both times my trips were cut short by business demands). I am going to visit Vietnam, Cambodia, and China which are places I could not experience the first time I was traveling through Asia. Then I will re visit Thailand and the Philippines...

I have changed and the places I am visiting have changed. There is no more staying up all night partying while also have sex three times a day in my future. I also once and for all figure out for myself why I always favored Thailand over the Philippines. I mean I had some really great sex with Filipinos (but that was mostly with guys I was friends with, straight guys, who I worked with in Saudi Arabia (lots of stories there). But the ones at the bars were always really hot looking in the bar and seemed so willing until you got down to business....disappointing is the word...

It just never made sense....but that I would assume would be a whole different thread. Maybe it all has changed now.

Never know for sure unless you go and find out for yourself.

I cannot expect to travel through some time machine and expect Thailand to be as I remembered because in all honesty the concept of "sex" has changed so much even in the United States and it has to have changed in Thailand too...

Not real sure what the business model would be...I mean when the kid who's family lives down the street has a "room" on Chaturbate and his videos pop up on various porn sites I can't help but shake my head in disbelief when he tells me he is not in it for the money but loves the performing and friends he makes! I cannot understand the attraction of having sex with other people via video cameras....

[fountainhall]

I have changed and the places I am visiting have changed

You have hit the nail on the head - at least as far as those in our age range are concerned - "I have changed". We all change over time. I could no more be the sort of sex tourist that I once was than turn into a money boy! I do hanker after the old days in Thailand because they were so exciting and such fun. Whilst I still enjoy seeing cute young Thai guys, I now prefer their company over a drink or two. Besides, I have had the luxury and enormous privilege of spending most of my career in this exciting part of the world. I cannot imagine what life would have been like without being exposed early on to the cultures and societies of so many fascinating countries at a time they were each emerging in their own ways from the rigours of disastrous wars.

Unlike you, I have been based exclusively in various Asian countries which I have got to know well, including sexually. Like you, I have travelled the world for business very regularly but I have rarely had sex anywhere other than in Asia. Only in Sydney did have I had great times - and that's because I was always with Asians! I guess I am just the typical rice-queen!

As regular posters will know, my other Asian favourites - countries as well as their young men - are Japan and Taiwan. I discovered Japan within a few years of arriving in Asia and my first true love here was Japanese. Having since then lived there, returning many times has been a special joy. More recently I feel especially at home in Taiwan to the point where I would happily move to retire in Taipei if I had the funds to do so.

So I now have no personal interest in what happens to Soi Twilight. I am just thrilled I was around when it was starting up and during its long heyday. It sure was fun!

[AsDaRa]

Very nice thread. Love reading about the old days, way before my time.

Also give some more info please. What was the off fee in 1980, what the short time price in 1980?

How did you find out about Thailand as sex paradise without Internet? You happened to cross a newspaper article and reading it thought: "I want to go there"? Now it is common knowledge, but was it already common knowledge in 1972, 1980, 1990?

What more has changed? Go go bars operated the same way as they do now? Immediately being asked for a drink? Lot of pressure to choose boy? Or was it more relaxed? And since in the past more farangs, was there more competition? Did you miss the oppertunity sometimes to off the boy you wanted for a couple of days in a row because you were too late for him?

Please more detail, certainly where the differences are compared to now. Thanks in advance.

[fountainhall]

I'll try and provide some answers.

I can't recall what i paid those two boys who entertained me on my Stockholm visit. It was all so new, I had such a great time and no doubt I overtipped. Thereafter from my discovery of Apollo and Twilight (Apollo was situated in Silom Soi 4 above where Sphinx is now) I think I paid Bt. 500 for a short-time. The Baht was then fixed at US$1 = Bt. 25 (it remained at that fixed rate till July 1997) and so the equivalent was $20. Plus a Bt. 500 note was so much easier to take out than 4 x Bt. 100 notes. I remember paying the same in the early 1990s. I cannot recall what the off fee was. In Apollo if you paid Bt. 100 or so to use the short-time room upstairs, I don't seem to remember any off fee. I am sure TaoR will have a more accurate memory.

What I do remember was the catwalk that snaked through the middle of the small bar and the boys stripping completely naked around 9:00pm - as they did in Twilight. All seemed to have fun and happily welcomed everyone who came into the bar. I do remember the Apollo barman, a student named Ruangsan who I was infatuated with for ages and frequently just sat at the bar to chat with him, but he was not offable - at least I never succeeded! LOL

I knew absolutely noting about Thailand and Bangkok's sex scene until I moved to Hong Kong. In fact, really strange though this will seem, when I was offered the job in Hong Kong, I did not even know where Hong Kong was! My knowledge of the geography and history of Asia was minuscule. Then having landed in Hong Kong and got my first copy of the Spartacus guide, I realised Bangkok was a place I had to visit.

I come from Britain. When I was a student and just starting to work, there was never any talk whatever about Thailand with or without sexual references. Asia was too far away. Of course we had heard about the Vietnam War but again that blighted country seemed planets away! With the wages paid at that time, we could never consider going there.

The atmosphere in the bars was certainly far more relaxed than today. The mamasans might come up and ask what you'd like to drink, but it was polite and with little pressure. Similarly there was no pressure to have a second drink, but the prices were so low I usually had at least 2 or 3 drinks as well as buying 1 or 2 for a few of the boys. Same with choosing a boy. No pressure. Twilight was run by two older transvestites who manned the bar and might suggest this boy or that one. But little more.

You are wrong in thinking there were more farang at that time. There were less. As has been mentioned before, in Bangkok's go-go bars there were usually more Thais than westerners. Attendance during weekdays was pretty slim, but packed at week-ends. Twilight had a little older guy who would get more and more seats as the number of customers kept increasing!

As for offing a boy two nights running, I never went two nights running. On the few occasions I really wanted to meet a guy, I would tell the mamasan when I would next be in the bar and she would ensure my chosen companion was there for me.

[AsDaRa]

Thank you. Love reading this. Best thread in ages

[bobsaigon2]

This is a late reply to Christian:

So I wonder, if you don't bother much about the scene and don't travel any more, how do you know? Second or third hand information? Chinese Whispers?

It is only during this past year that I had to end my travels to Bangkok. I maintain contacts in Soi Twilight so I am up to date.


Cannot provide any details or more info. Does that mean you don't know more or that you can't say it here?

I cannot say more because I don't know more. The Dreamboys staff member who told me did not provide details because the owner of Dreamboys did not say anything beyond "Soi Twilight closing in two years".

[TaoR]

To really understand the bar scene of Thailand in the 1980's you have to understand what it was like to grow up gay in the 1970's. Yes, you can read about the gay scene in New York and London but very few of us lived in New York or London.

Every gay bar I visited while in college was a very dark, dirty, dreary place. Forget the rainbow flag and the gay pride....sullen would be a much more apt term.

Then you find yourself in Bangkok....Barbiery and Apollo were always packed. Mostly Asians as Fountainhall stated. It was a small scene but a scene full of young guys, happy guys. Drink prices were cheap and you always found yourself buying drinks for others. Which in turn only added to the party atmosphere.

It was a very polite non aggressive scene. The mamasan/captain at Barbiery was quite the gentlemen and he nurtured and protected "his boys." I remember the off fee was 300 Baht.

I remember I tipped my guy 1500 Baht the first night which was long term. He was so nervous when we left Barbiery that I took him out to eat and then we walked around talking and hit up a couple of other bars before heading to the hotel room...he was definitely new to all of this

There was absolutely no discussion of tip amount and it truly was whatever I wanted to pay.

I remember my guy had a cousin who also worked at Barbiery and he was an absolute stunning young man. He was so high in demand that he was pre booked a week in advance. Forget comparing sex work to entry level construction work because this young man was offed every night sometimes two or three times a night.

I seriously doubt the sex trade is that well paying nowadays.