A future for Soi Pratuchai?

[ggobob]

Shifting back to the first few posts in this thread about the demise of Soi Twilight...a walk down Surawong shows buildings between Le Meredian and the Montien's entrance to be covered in pre-development wrap, and at the other end there is major development happening, with condo being constructed at Ashton Place. Suspect since there is no Landmarks Commission to hold developers back, a real estate deal will eventually kill off all but memories.

[fountainhall]

. . . Then came the backpackers and no one felt compelled to give them much respect. And then, thanks to reduced air fares and to Thailand's growing reputation as the sex capital of SE Asia, there came a rather large percentage of foreigners who had not the slightest notion of contributing to the betterment of Thai society.

One short anecdote. I vividly recall arriving in Bangkok from Singapore in 1989 and seeing an Air Europe 747 from somewhere in England (I will not offend sensibilities by naming the departure airport) disgorging what appeared to be a full planeload largely made up of cheap package tourists who looked like a caricature of louts from a 1960s move - slightly fat women in too-tight floral miniskirts and beehive hairstyles, groups of unshaven drunk young men, beer bottles in hand, ruffled shirts out (decades before it became the fashion) and singing vaguely pornographic songs etc. . . As I walked to Immigration, I thought "What have the Thais done to deserve this?"

[AsDaRa]

All that Gdp growth Thailand has enjoyed -- some of it has trickled down to even somchai selling somtam in the village. Hence, there's not as much of a need to prostitute yourself

But how can you live a middle class live from the average 10.000 baht salary that many Thais receive? At least this is about the most common salary I hear quoted on forums and from Thais (working in 7-11 or working in a shop or being a hotel receptionist, that is about your monthly salary).

You can't even have your own descent room with such a salary, but need to share.

Say you are married and your monthly income is 20.000 baht, can you live a middle class live with your wife and two kids from that in Pattatya? Maybe in the country side. But in a city?

[fountainhall]

Say you are married and your monthly income is 20.000 baht, can you live a middle class live with your wife and two kids from that in Pattatya? Maybe in the country side. But in a city?

Vast numbers of Thais do! But you are again bringing your own European sensitivities into a Thai context. Your ideas of class are certainly far from those of the average Thai.

For example, what is the approx. size in square meters of your house or apartment? The average Thai couple with one or two kids and climbing the economic ladder is moving into Bangkok and seeking apartments of around 35 - 40 sq. m. That is the average size of most apartments now being constructed as Bangkok continues to grow outwards. How many middle class families where you live would even consider that as the size for one decent bedroom?

Besides I can tell you that hotel receptionists generally earn a good deal more than employees at 7/11 stores!

[AsDaRa]

I know from the hotel receptionist from Copa hotel in Boyztown he earned 10.000 two years ago. I must say I am not sure if it was a full time job for him. So you can be right that full time it is a bit more. But it is still an unskilled job. You don't need an education for it. Besides knowing how to read and write of course.

It was his only normal income. Besides being money boy also.

[fountainhall]

Would you regard that as middle class?

[cdnmatt]

But how can you live a middle class live from the average 10.000 baht salary that many Thais receive? At least this is about the most common salary I hear quoted on forums and from Thais (working in 7-11 or working in a shop or being a hotel receptionist, that is about your monthly salary).

You can't even have your own descent room with such a salary, but need to share.

Say you are married and your monthly income is 20.000 baht, can you live a middle class live with your wife and two kids from that in Pattatya? Maybe in the country side. But in a city?

Ok, but flip that around. How well do you think a 7/11 clerk in say Canada or Germany lives? I doubt they're buying a brand new 3bdrm house, have a couple nice vehicles in the driveway, eat filet mignon when they want, and go on a couple nice vacations a year. Instead, I would imagine they're living in a small apartment with one or two other people, eat like garbage, and are struggline to make ends meet if not living off a credit card at the end of every month.

Things like 7/11 clerk and hotel receptionist are shit jobs with shit pay all over the world, and Thailand is no different.

[Yraen]

But it is still an unskilled job. You don't need an education for it.

ADR, I don't know where you get your info because it is quite unreal.

To work as a cashier in Big C one needs a Bachelor degree. (My partner and his best friend - employed as a branch Chief Cashier - were both "retrenched" from different store branches because the company policy suddenly changed to require all staff to have at least a graduate degree.) Much the same applies in most department stores if you want a sales job.

If you still want to be employed after you turn 35, you will need a Masters. In which case you will still only be getting around 20K Baht. Else you will suddenly find yourself doing something quite menial or you become "self employed". You know - street vendor or similar. Go and read some of the employment advertisements in the news papers. They will open your eyes at the systematic prejudice used to hire labour at the lowest pay rate.

If you have some family 'push' these situations probably will not apply.

[BonTong]

I think it's important to remember this thread was about Soi Pratuchai, and by implication go-go bars/boys. For those boys it's not just about money, it's about the whole lifestyle thing including family social issues and Thai culture. Things that cannot be easily measured or understood when viewed from a western perspective.

Being a go-go boy now is more about lifestyle than money. Effectively the bar owns you. Don't turn up for work and you get fined. Don't want to go with a customer - fined. Don't want to do the show -fined. No where to live - don't worry we'll rent you a room. Yes, it's a shit life, so here's a little something to make it easier.... Oh you liked that did you? Well, the next one ain't free. And so the downward spiral begins..... Anyone who thinks that boy in his tighty whities on stage is a completely free agent just there for the money is being extremely naive. Especially in this modern age.

Soi Pratuchai, and other bar zones in Thailand, will continue for sometime yet, but will rely increasingly on foreign guys as they can't find Thai's to do the job, anymore than the construction industry can, or the food processing or fishing industries can. The business will turn increasingly to the dark side as more human traffickers move in.

I do agree with other posters that prostitution is not dead. I'm sure, as others have stated, in Pattaya there are plenty of hard core money boys waiting for you online - at least there they are free agents. And there are definitely lots of boys all over the country who are not hard core but do it discreetly to make extra cash. This will continue as long as the supply and demand economics support it.

[BonTong]

Just spotted this: Junta to purge Pattaya of prostitution

http://prachatai.org/english/node/6942

Well, heard that story before but this line echoes some points already raised about the media in this thread :

"Thai media should not highlight the issue due to the risk of tarnishing the country’s image"