A future for Soi Pratuchai?

[latintopxxx]

...and asdara has merely stated the obvious....even a pig ugly gogo can make more money than a gorgeous construction worker.

[BonTong]

I don't know about Pattaya, but this thread was about Soi Pratuchai in BKK. Here prices have definitely increased! It's not just about money though. It's about social acceptability too. With the internet everyone knows everyone's business; it's much harder for a boy to leave home saying he's off to work in BKK and then work in a go-go without risking being discovered.

The old adage applies, don't judge a book by its cover. If all you see is the go-go boy in the bar, and how much he wants for short time you are missing the big picture. Get out into the countryside, small towns and villages. Here things have changed enormously. People may not be rich, but from what I see the average family is doing much better than fifteen years ago. The economic imperative is not there like it used to be. Yes, "even a pig ugly gogo can make more money than a gorgeous construction worker". But, why would they want to when they can now enjoy a more acceptable lifestyle back at home with friends and family?

[fountainhall]

I don't know about Pattaya, but this thread was about Soi Pratuchai in BKK. Here prices have definitely increased! It's not just about money though. It's about social acceptability too

It's always too easy to assume that Thailand is one of the most sexually liberal countries in the region. It is not. It is one of the most conservative.

[fountainhall]

I doubt many boys have better oppertunities now. Prostitution is the most easy way to have a monthly income with not too much work..

We all know that there are two sex industries in Thailand - one for the Thais which westerners rarely if ever discover - and one for visiting tourists and expats. When gay go-go bars first started, they must have seemed like manna from heaven for many country guys. They could put out of their minds the fat smelly hairy western body humping them for a while and think only of the Baht they would be handed when they could go back to their mates.

Since the government's first Social Order campaign in 2001, far more Thais became far more openly aware of the foreigner-based "entertainment" business - the sex business, in other words. And the vast majority did not like it. Poll after poll showed that the curtailing of the industry through things like shortening of opening hours and the zoning of entertainment businesses were extremely popular with Thais throughout the country. Over time, being a gay prostitute was no longer regarded as that enviable source of oodles of Baht. Indeed, for many more boys there is now a stigma attached to it than there ever was before. Why do you think there are so many Cambodians, Lao and Vietnamese boys now working legally or illegally in the sec business here? Because they are in the same economic circumstances of the Thai boys of yesteryear. Plus they are far from home so there is no fear of stigma at home.

That's not to say young Thai guys are not as interested in sex as any others. They are - only most now prefer sex with other Thais. Accordingly there is now a thriving industry in catering for this new young market, largely in gay Thai saunas some of which have their own no-holds-barred shows.

Of course there will always be money boys. I just agree with BonTong that social conditions in this already very conservative country are changing faster than before. As has been said by many posters over the last two years or so, the go-go bar model which flourished at its peak 15 - 30 years ago can not last. The owners failed to keep up with the times and really had no idea what their audience base wanted. Like the dinosaurs, their extinction is only a matter of time.

[AsDaRa]

You know Thailand better than I do, so I think you are right.

But this means the social stigma of being a money boy (for Farang or for Thai customers) forces many Thai boys now in badly paid jobs. Where they have far less free time than with the other option. That must then also be true, not?

Also if there still is a prostitution market for local Thai men than that is strange. Because I doubt they pay these boys the same we Farang pay them. Then why go as Thai boy with a Thai customer, if he pays less?

Question: are some members still in contact with boys they offed 20 years ago, or even longer ago? These boys (now men) are now in their early 40s. How are they now making a living? Very curious to that.

[fountainhall]

But this means the social stigma of being a money boy (for Farang or for Thai customers) forces many Thai boys now in badly paid jobs. Where they have far less free time than with the other option. That must then also be true, not?

Definitely not true. Why do you even suggest it "forces" Thais into badly paid jobs? The option remains. The fact is that far fewer boys see open prostitution in go-go bars as an option. The idea is anathema to them. Do you automatically assume that day labourers and poorly paid handsome young men in your country take these jobs in preference to working as prostitutes? You overestimate the number of guys around prepared to sell their bodies.

Also if there still is a prostitution market for local Thai men than that is strange. Because I doubt they pay these boys the same we Farang pay them. Then why go as Thai boy with a Thai customer, if he pays less?

It's frankly not strange at all. It's far less economics than social issues. The number of Thais in the country who interact with westerners is tiny! So it's not at all a case of let's be fucked by westerners because they'll pay more. I reckon it's much more a case of I'll go with guys I'm familiar with. I suspect some of these Thai men treat the money boys worse than most westerners. But that's entirely a matter for them.

Question: are some members still in contact with boys they offed 20 years ago, or even longer ago? These boys (now men) are now in their early 40s. How are they now making a living? Very curious to that.

Strangely, I did have a short fling with a money boy 21 years ago. He ended up going to university - the first ever in his family - and getting a degree. He then started a business which failed. So he got s job in a retail business, saved money and started a second business with a stall at Chatuchak. He still runs that business which now has several outlets in Bangkok. He regularly travels to India and China to source materials. We keep in touch and still meet occasionally for lunch.

Don't fall into the habit of assuming that western logic rules the world. It doesn't. Westerners who have lived in Thailand spend years trying and failing to come to terms with Thai logic!

[BonTong]

But this means the social stigma of being a money boy (for Farang or for Thai customers) forces many Thai boys now in badly paid jobs. Where they have far less free time than with the other option. That must then also be true, not?

In Chiang Mai I'd say the majority of guys you will meet online are either students or have a job (might well be different in Pattaya). If they want some cash it's a sideline, not their main occupation. For the few that have opted for the full-time money boy lifestyle its usually not pretty and may well involve a bunch of illegal activities .

Much better work in seven and discreetly make a few extra $$ than join that downward spiral towards the jail, or worse.

Question: are some members still in contact with boys they offed 20 years ago, or even longer ago? These boys (now men) are now in their early 40s. How are they now making a living? Very curious to that.

Not 20 years but more than 15. Still see a few Soi twilight old hands back in their country homes. Once a hustler always a hustler, even if they are not selling themselves. Was just joking the other day about how many former giks now wear pink aprons!

[BonTong]

I suspect some of these Thai men treat the money boys worse than most westerners.

In many cases I also suspect you are right, but even if the financial reward may be lower it will be delivered in a respectful Thai way so no one loses face. A lot of Thai's get in go-go/karaoke bars in Chiang Mai. It's interesting to watch the often subtle nuances of their interactions with the boys.

That said, a lot of Thais are very generous - something which hierarchical Thai society demands. It is the more wealthy Thai's you see in the bars entertaining several boys with a bottle or two of whiskey, not the farangs. And, for a gay Thai it's a really good gig to be the "mia noi" for a wealthy married Thai Chinese.

[a447]

Two remarks here.

I understood from people who can know that the short time prize is pretty stable over the years. In Pattaya 1200 baht short time is possible and that is about the same prize as it was 10 years ago, when there were no apps (as I understood).

I doubt many boys have better oppertunities now. Prostitution is the most easy way to have a monthly income with not too much work. Many boys only have primary education (this is not rare at all). They can only get boring, badly paid jobs, for 8 hours a day. Then end of month they receive their 10.000 baht salary. They can earn this amount also - and far more easily - by just taking 6 customers in a month. So 6 hours work can get them the same compared to 160 hours of work. Then I know what I would choose if I was a good looking Thai boy and I was facing these two options.

What you say reflects what the boys have told me over the years.

I'm not a butterfly; I have regular guys in the places I visit, and they all speak very good English. As we've gotten to know each other over the years they've opened up and told me many interesting things about their work as moneyboys.

Not one boy has ever said he enjoys the work but they have all commented on the fact that it is easy money. Mind you, the guys I choose are hot hunks with all the required attributes so when I'm not in town they are all making lots of money. As they say, there's no way they could ever make this kind of money doing a normal job.

They all have at least one thing in common - they do not waste their money on drink and drugs; rather, they are saving up for the time when they can no longer work as moneyboys.

A lot of guys in Thailand (and in any country for that matter) would find the job distasteful and would never dream of prostituting themselves. They are willing to accept working long hours for little money. And good luck to them, if that's what they want. It's their life.

On the other hand, there are heaps of guys for whom the temptation of easy money is just impossible to resist. Many young guys want to enjoy the endless parties that such easy money affords them. Some will disappear in a cloud of yabaa whilst others will make a go of it and come out the other end with enough money to set themselves up for life.

Their choice.

[fountainhall]

And, for a gay Thai it's a really good gig to be the "mia noi" for a wealthy married Thai Chinese.

Its virtually the same in many countries. A good-looker with good manners and a sense of style can become a kept boy for a few years in which he will probably be given an apartment, a car, a large clothing allowance, cash - and a big bonus when his patron wants to move on to someone else. I know of more than two quite prominent Bangkok businessmen who have provided apartments and all the other trimmings for their boyfriends/girlfriends - and rumour has it their wives are perfectly well aware of the situation. Certainly if they read the gossip magazines they're bound to know! But then many Thais have second wives quite openly.