Dodgers Trip Report

[fountainhall]

We're really not comparing Pattaya with Singapore here.

I perfectly understand that. My point is very simple. You give lots of reasons for visiting Pattaya. With respect you view these from your western perspective and from someone of your age (younger then me, I'm certain!) - as indeed do I, although I come to different conclusions. If you look at them from the perspective of a young Asian, like sglad and the young Taiwanese guys of roughly similar age I hosted last weekend, however, those attractions are really not much of an attraction - the more so if you have similar and often better attractions on your home turf! Why would you visit Pattaya for water sports, a superb cinema or partying when you can have all that and a helluvalot more back in Singapore?

Similarly with a coffee shop. I often see squirrels from my window here in Bangkok (although I have no idea how many species). As you can tell all over Asia, a student visiting a coffee shop is less likely to do so to watch squirrels and far more likely to chat with friends or to study!

And yes, gay sex may be illegal under the notorious Section 377A of the Singapore Penal Code. However, as any regular visitor knows perfectly well, Singapore is one of the cruisiest cities in Asia and there is a great deal of sex to be had there if you are looking for it. There are gay bars and saunas for those so inclined. Plus the Prime Minister is on record as saying that whilst the law will not be repealed, it will not be acted on.

[arsenal]

With all due respect Fountainhall you have no idea what a 24 year old student does or doesn't like. I think the things I mentioned are pretty much enjoyed universally. The squirrels were part of the overall picture I was painting so a little childish to focus on that as one can still chat with friends. What's it to you if anyone goes there and has a coffee?

[fountainhall]

I suggest you are making a considerable leap of judgement there, arsenal. I have quite a lot of gay friends in their mid 20s or so living in various parts of Asia. I happen to chat with them quite a lot and several visit me. On the basis of what these guys like to do when they are in Thailand, I suggested that -

like sglad and the young Taiwanese guys of roughly similar age I hosted last weekend

- none would be interested in Pattaya specifically for the various reasons you outlined. And I absolutely stand by that. As you imply in your post, older guys have quite different interests from those of much younger guys. That's only natural. Pattaya has a certain attraction for quite a large group of older, some retired expats and western visitors. Also some Chinese tour groups and visiting Arabs. But since you suggest that I am wrong, with equal respect what information do you have to prove that you are correct? How many mid-20s non-Thai Asian students do you regularly see on your visits to Pattaya?

[arsenal]

Whatever's up with you today Fountainhall I can't be bothered. So for today only. You're right about absolutely everything and no one under the age of ? should ever go to Pattaya because there is nothing of any interest there whatsoever for anyone under the age of ? Happy?

[scottish-guy]

All on this forum are in the fortunate position to be able to choose where to go in the world, right?

I've never been in Singapore and never will be either - I simply make the point that when the choice is between a (more than) tolerant country and another which potentially criminalises me for gay nookie and then attempts to justify its stance by patronisingly declaring that although I'm considered a criminal they won't actively prosecute me, then my choice is made very easy indeed.

[arsenal]

I would visit Singapore but be very wary of indulging. Because whatever the Prime Minister says the law says something different and maybe that particular day a policeman and a judge who both hate gays decide to follow the letter of the law.

[francois]

Good morning. I'm sorry if there's been a misunderstanding. I myself am a bit confused by your comments above. Where did I give the impression that I didn't know where to go or what to do? And where have I asked for advice? If you could point point out an example or two from my previous posts to support your assertions I'd really appreciate it.

sglad, this is what you posted earlier:

Thanks for the interesting trip report. I've never been to Pattaya - my Thai friends are always telling me not to bother but I would like to check it out for myself.


It seemed to me that you were querying for some advice or comments? Yes? No?

Some suggested Phuket and Chiang Mai as fun places. But you didn't mention Phuket in you posts and you already live in CM and seem to know you way around there.

Others extolled the merits of Bangkok, but you have already been and lived in Bangkok and know you way around so you need no advice in that regard.

So it is either come down to Pattaya and see for yourself or not.
Students learn by doing, don't they?

[fountainhall]

Whatever's up with you today Fountainhall . . .

I am merely arguing my corner, as it were, because it is something I feel quite strongly about. Of course francois is right. There is nothing at all wrong with visiting Pattaya to check it out. I've done that and I've come to my own conclusions.

But we really have to accept that the majority of posters here are over 50, some considerably more so, are either retired in Pattaya, visit for extended periods like Dodger whose partner lives here (had to find some way to bring the thread topic back LOL), or who take regular vacations in Pattaya. And of those who are not partnered, from the posts it at least appears that the majority visit primarily to take advantage of the availability of paid sex with cute Thai guys a great deal younger than themselves - christianpfc being one notable exception, at least as far as age is concerned!

We all base our conclusions on our own experiences. Mine tells me that pay for play is not what the vast majority of visiting Asians in their 20s and early 30s are looking for. Why should they, when in Bangkok there are saunas aplenty where they can happily have sex in some pleasant surroundings - Babylon, Chakran and so on - for around US$7 or so, or way under 10% of the cost of entry to a gogo bar, a couple of drinks, an off fee and a tip? Commercial sex is of little interest to most. So if the prime reason for visiting Pattaya is stripped away, what's left apart from the list outlined in arsenal's earlier post? I'd be delighted to visit that coffee shop with arsenal and am sure I'd have a great time. But I can't believe many mid-20s guys would go out there if only because they go to coffee shops to study or to chat and gossip with heir friends rather than to take in nice scenery. Only my view, I know.

As for Singapore, I have spent a great deal of time there, often for work. It is one of the easiest places to have fun and there are lots of eager Singapore guys. There is zero problem with hotels and the gay bar that is my regular haunt has never had any issue with the law. Heck, a very long time ago I can remember loads of gays filling parts of Zouk Club and the Pan Pacific hotel having weekly Sunday afternoon gay events.

[arsenal]

Fountainhall. I agree with most of what you wrote. But remember, the trip that SGlad would have is not the same as living here. And please. Being over 50 does not mean one gets into one's bath chair you know. I'm 50 and have more fun now than I ever did at 24. You really do think Pattaya has nothing to offer except sex? I think you're projecting what you want onto him.

[fountainhall]

Of course a quick 3-day trip is nothing like living anywhere. And like you I have unquestionably had my best fun years after 40. But let me try and end the discussion with just one further question if I may. You have admitted elsewhere that you visit Pattaya regularly because of the ready availability of money boys. I'm sure you have a great time. But let's assume there was a change in Thai customs and morality resulting in no such ready availability in Pattaya - or anywhere else in Thailand for that matter. Would you continue to visit Pattaya? Or would you be more tempted to vacation elsewhere?