One main reason I love living in Thailand...

[pong]

most-many of those condo's are not inhabited and simply kept (mostly owned by banks-on loan or martgage) as money wise investments by Chiense-rooted families.
Neither of those postal workers-nor Belgian or Swedish, get an 1800тВм/month pension-the usual pension for those-ONLY if having worked the required full 40 years and as normal letterbringer etc. or clerk in the now defunct postoffices (99% of those have been closed by now)-get about 12/1300тВм/month-plus some other benefits that anyone from 65 would get. Those who have held higher jobs-chiefs of the PO f.e. would reach it.

[thonglor55]

Now... you tell a Thai you're gay, and their response will generally be, "oh, ok", and that's literally it. The conversation continues, and they don't treat you a single bit differently than 10 seconds prior to you telling them.

Now, tell a white guy in Thailand you're gay (and farangs in Thailand are generally pretty open-minded and liberal compared to our home countries), and you get a response like, "Ohhh, really? Ohhh, no worries, I don't mind at all that you're gay. As long as two people love each other, who am I to say, right? You seem like a really good guy, and you know, I have several friends that are gay, and they're great people too! Seriously, it's no problem at all, and I'm glad you found someone. That's great to hear!" ... and blah, blah, blah...

And you tell people you're gay because ... ? They ask you? Just because someone asks you a question that doesn't entitle them to an answer. As for the difference between the Thai response and the Western response, it's purely cultural. The Thais won't comment one way or the other because it's not polite and could cause confrontation - the biggest social no-no in Thailand. The Westerners do comment because they need to demonstrate that they're "open minded"; to imply otherwise would equally be a social no-no. However they're both thinking "Poor bastard - no children".

[Beachlover]

Gotta say, I much prefer living in a society where the standard response to telling someone you're gay is, "oh, ok", and that's it. I think I've totally forgotten what it's like to be a gay man in the West, and tonight brought that back somewhat. In the West you have to somewhat pick & choose your social circle carefully, whereas in Thailand it's simply a non-issue.

Totally agree... We're gradually getting there in the West. I've found in big-city Australia you can be in one room where no one gives a shit, and then in next room people might not have had much contact with openly gay people are a little unsure how to react (even if they might be open minded and ok with it).

In Thailand, I think Isaan is probably the least homophobic of all the segments of the Thai population, . You'll still get a lot of Thais who are uncomfortable or not as accepting of homosexuality in the middle class.

I simply tip better and of course everywhere we went we recieved 1st class service from everyone and falang saw it and realized they better stay away and not say anything. Same goes for BKK when I stay in the Shangri-la Hotel and the boys are with me. Security is told not to ask me questions about who I bring in or can I hold or see thier ID card. Nothing. They join me at the buffet, some people again look but when they see everyone saying "Welcome back.......name) they back off and shut up. When we go to the pool we see some other gay couples who seem to also be very comfortable. One time I asked if it bothered them and they replied, NO you are our guest and therefore he is our guest. why should we care? Anytime I am alone (laughing) they always ask me where my son is!! love that place...

Heh... nicely done.

[Beachlover]

As everyone is saying, a degree from a Thai University is certainly no guarantee to make good money. My ex has been working several years for a large Japanese owned travel agency, and even though he is a "Manager", he only makes 15,000 baht a month. That's about half what you get a month on Unemployment in the US. :rolling:

Totally true but isn't that the case with university degrees everywhere?

You've no idea how many grads I see in Australia earning shit all after graduating because they didn't think things through. I have a mate who graduated three years ago and is still working in retail because there's NO demand for grads in his field of study. What a ridiculous waste.

People often choose their course having NO idea what role or career path they want to pursue or how the f*** that course is going to prepare them for it.

Sometimes when I chat to Thai students in Bangkok and ask what they're studying they come back with something like "political science" and I wonder, what the f*** are they going to do with that?

These people are already poor. They're investing precious time and money into getting a degree to improve their earning capacity and YET haven't bothered to think through WHAT they want to earn and HOW the course they select will get them there. Sometimes they graduate and have no idea where or how to get a job and no understanding of the employee/employer marketplace.

whilst тВм2500/month may sound implausible please explain who lives in and or owns the hundreds of thousands of terribly over prices condos in Bangkok, Pattaya,etc... can"t all be retired German/Dutch postal workers on their тВм1800/month pensions!!
As an auditor I have extensive contact with multiple multinations in Thailand, Thais with proven western standard management qualifications in fields such as QA, supply chain, operations and general managemnt command a premium; mainly because they are difficult to find and very picky about who they work for.
Very cost effective to hire a Thai, speaks the local language, no driver needed, no ridiculous expat package.
Thailand is not all about gogo bars and tacky mass tourism!!!!

Latintopxxx is right about this.

There's a big difference between Thais who graduate out of bottom of the pile universities with weak qualifications in areas with oversupply of grads and those who graduate out of top universities in high-earning, high demand fields.

The Thais you see earning 8,000 baht/month after spending 3-4 years on a degree either aren't very bright, don't know how to position themselves in the market or didn't plan ahead and make good decisions.

Another example that recently comes to mind is a Thai who gained both his Masters plus his Doctorate at a European University. he nows works as a lecturer for one of the more famous Uni's in Bangkok for a salary of around 25,000 THB.

[latintopxxx]

Not sure if I explained myself, the figure of тВм2500.00/month is not hypothetical, I work for a multi-national and we have offices & production facilities in China, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia; a local employee in his mid thirties with a good degree and proven western level managemnt skills can and does command this salary level. Still far cheaper than having an expat, I was based in China for 3 years and had I been married with children they would have been automatically entitled to free schooling in an international school and yearly flights back home, that cost alone would exceed тВм2500.00/month.
Not all Thais are employed as gogo boy sex toys... although judging by some of the ridiculous tips being paid (I have only VERY occasionally tipped more than a 1000) it doesn't seem like a bad profession...

[netrix]

you're talking about 100,000+ baht per month! that's a lot.
and just because it exists, doesn't mean the 99% who don't
land that kind of salary are lazy or stupid.

i have friends in bkk who have jobs in marketing/advertising,
photography, real estate agents, banking, DJ, university teachers,
language school teachers, web design... and nobody comes close
to 100K baht/mo.

have a look at the statistics ==> http://www.worldsalaries.org/thailand.shtml

[cdnmatt]

Yeah, 100,000 baht/month is definitely quite high, and I'm fairly certain only something foreign companies with offices in Bangkok hand out. I don't think many people who work for Thai owned & operated companies get that kind of salary.

Around here at least, I'd say your average middle class family with two incomes make about 50,000/month. Then middle class Thais seem to be as stupid as middle class Westerners. Drown themselves in debt -- couple vehicles, fancy kitchen, and whatever other toys while they pay off their monthly debts for eternity.

[bao-bao]

i have friends in bkk who have jobs in marketing/advertising,
photography, real estate agents, banking, DJ, university teachers,
language school teachers, web design... and nobody comes close
to 100K baht/mo

From what I've been told by friends in Thailand ranging from surgeon specialists to service industry maintanence folks netrix is closer to correct.

latintopxxx may well have presented a valid example, but it's not the norm.

[Beachlover]

Come on guys... put this in perspective. Middle-class incomes are as varied in Thailand as they are anywhere else.

Look at your own home countries. I know guys in their twenties earning $40k-50k/year in Australia. I also know guys in their twenties who've achieved $250k+/year salaries - that's five times more. I also know some rare freaks who've got to making 7-figure bonuses in their twenties. It's the same in the US, UK and rest of Europe.

How proportionally different is that from Thailand? You have large numbers of middle-class around the 20,000 baht/month region as NETRIX describes as well as a good number who've achieved five times that much and earn 100,000 baht/month as LATINTOPXXX describes. The gap is proportionally similar to back home.

I'm sure there's plenty of middle-class Thais comfortably earning 100,000+ baht/month (I have dated a couple of Thai boys who's families were definitely making more than that). But, as Netrix points out, the sobering reality is, the Thai middle-class does consist of masses of people tread milling along on under 20,000 baht/month. Same in Australia with plenty of people struggling on $60k/year here too.

What Thailand has, which Western countries DON'T have is an even POORER underclass who don't even make that... the rural working class of unskilled workers live on 5,000-7,000/month. Sex tourists who do nothing but hang around gogo moneyboys and service workers only have contact with this population segment and come to think all Thais are that poor, which isn't true...

Another example that recently comes to mind is a Thai who gained both his Masters plus his Doctorate at a European University. he nows works as a lecturer for one of the more famous Uni's in Bangkok for a salary of around 25,000 THB.

If he's only making $250/week and has those kind of credentials, would he be better off working in a Western country?

Don't know the guy so not saying he's sure to command a high wage (I know some PhD guys who are next to useless) but he could at least be valuable teaching...

One time, I was watching the show at Dream Boys in Bangkok and this middle-aged Thai sat next to me. Nice guy. We got to chatting. When the mamasan kept asking him if he wanted a boy he joked, "I already have boy" and pointed to me. Anyway, he asked me what I was earning in Australia and then told me he was a university lecturer and earning 30,000 baht/month at some university in Phuket... which is pretty close to your figure. I wonder if he was as qualified as your guy. He did speak excellent English.